Duggars by the Dozen 35: Five Months with no Pregnant Duggars. How much longer will it last?

[nausicaa]

6 hours ago, viii said:

This thread stresses me the fuck out. I'm 33, and haven't been in a long-term relationship in YEARS. I want children so bad, but at this point in my life... I just don't see it happening. That makes me sad. 

I wish this part of things was discussed more. Some people take for granted the presence of a partner and assume all of these family decisions are completely voluntary choices. I am still unsure of having children, but was always certain that I wasn't tough enough to go it alone. I began focusing on dating and finding someone at age 26, but now at 34, am still single. I'd love to hear what the likes of Lori and Dennis Prager has to say about that (er, maybe I don't....). If I knew then what I know now, I would have just focused more on my career and at least have something to show for the last eight years of busting my ass. 

 

I agree with everyone that family planning decisions are incredibly personal, but also understand the frustration from @luv2laugh. It's not necessarily the case here, but in these child bearing discussions elsewhere, there is STRONG dog whistling of "who are you to hold out for a better guy or aspire to a better career" aimed at women, and I don't think we can sit here and ignore it. A perfect partner doesn't magically appear to everyone by age 25, and there are certain career goals that are just not going to be obtainable if you have three kids before age 30. 

[viii]

I never thought much about my future growing up besides hoping to marry at 22 and become a mother at 24. Anything else was kind of elusive, plus I was raised with the mindset that I probably would never be an adult because we’d all be raptured by then. 

Senior year of high school and I have zero clue what I want to pursue, so I put it off for a year and then kept putting it off. The rapture was coming, who cares about a degree? 

Now I’m 33, still single, and still not raptured. I mostly enjoy my job, but if I had known I was going to live my life alone, I should have chosen something that was more financially stable. 

Regrets, I have tons. 

[Cheetah]

4 hours ago, twoandthrough said:

I had mine at 28 and 30, and I swear, I am always either the youngest mom of a group or the oldest. Never in the middle. It's bizarre. 

I had mine at 28, 32, and 35.  I live in a highly educated high income area where first children often come later in life, and when my first was in high school I sometimes felt like the only mom at the PTA meetings who was pre-menopausal ;-).   Most of my good friends actually are within a couple of years of me on either side and have kids about the same age as my middle kid (now almost 17).  

[luv2laugh]

1 hour ago, nausicaa said:

I wish this part of things was discussed more. Some people take for granted the presence of a partner and assume all of these family decisions are completely voluntary choices. I am still unsure of having children, but was always certain that I wasn't tough enough to go it alone. I began focusing on dating and finding someone at age 26, but now at 34, am still single. I'd love to hear what the likes of Lori and Dennis Prager has to say about that (er, maybe I don't....). If I knew then what I know now, I would have just focused more on my career and at least have something to show for the last eight years of busting my ass. 

 

I agree with everyone that family planning decisions are incredibly personal, but also understand the frustration from @luv2laugh. It's not necessarily the case here, but in these child bearing discussions elsewhere, there is STRONG dog whistling of "who are you to hold out for a better guy or aspire to a better career" aimed at women, and I don't think we can sit here and ignore it. A perfect partner doesn't magically appear to everyone by age 25, and there are certain career goals that are just not going to be obtainable if you have three kids before age 30. 

Thank you for understanding. I completely agree.

Many women that choose to work and focus on their career have no other option but to wait to have kids until their mid-late 30s. Some reason lucky but yes, some need to budget to spend money on fertility treatments.  I am 26 and may need to go back for more graduate schooling and I don’t know how I’m going to do it (when I can plan to have kids). It’s important to have support when you have to work and are trying to start your family. My mom is not a nice person (she’s a narcissist) and my husband’s mom lives far away and is self-centered so we’d have no option but daycare or a nanny, if we could afford one. It’s really important to me to have at least two kids but I have to plan it on when it will best.

My mom had me at 35. I feel like so many women that are older moms face so much ridicule and judgment.

[Iamtheway]

6 hours ago, neurogirl said:

I don't even feel like a full adult yet.

I’m almost 40 and I don’t either. I wonder if you ever do?

We started trying when I was 28 and Miniway was born just before I turned 34. I always wanted at least two kids because I think it’s good for kids to have siblings and I love mine. 

But now I really don’t want a second child. I hated being pregnant, wasn’t a big fan of the delivery, didn’t like breastfeeding and was a bit bored having a baby. I’ve tried it all, am happy I got to do it but have no desire to do it again. I feel like I’m too old and that our family is perfect as it is. I see friends and family struggle with their kids and keeping their life organized and our life is so easy. There’s two of us so there’s always time for the things we want to do. It’s easier and cheaper to bring one child along to things, like visiting family in Australia. We always have time for him and his needs. But also time for eachother and ourselves.

I have friends that have kids with disabilities and kids that are just very difficult. Miniway is the easiest child in the world and I fear we would not be so lucky the second time around. Especially with me being older.

We also fought so hard to have that kid. We wanted him so much and longed for him for so long. He’s our miracle and I have a really hard time thinking I could love another child as much as I love him. I know that’s a concern many (maybe all?) parents have and I’m sure I would love a second child if we have one but it can never be the same. That child would never be as wanted as Miniway because there is no way I’m going through that one more time. 

My only regret is that I wish Miniway siblings. But I don’t think that’s reason enough to have a child. A child should be wanted for itself not as a companion to another child. 

I look at other peoples babies and try to feel that longing. The babyfeaver. But there is nothing there. 

[luv2laugh]

I’ve heard you get wiser with age but you never feel “ready” to have kids.

I am 26 and I’m probably going back to grad school as I’m not that happy with what I’ve been doing lately. I might do this for awhile but go eventually and make a career change. Depending on when I go to school, I may get pregnant in grad school, who knows. It will be very hard but I’ve heard people do it and get through it. I’m very, very afraid to face discrimination when I do get pregnant but I’ll never let it stop me from having a family (whether through pregnancy or adoption).

I just wish it wasn’t so controversial when women decide to have babies and how they go about it. I didn’t think FJ of all places would debate it. I’d expect a debate on it in Lori’s super secret chat group or an evangelical women’s Bible study.

Yes, there are less risks with pregnancy if you get pregnant when you’re young but at many times, there are sacrifices to be made and many have to struggle financially a bit more. 

Yes, there are risks to getting pregnant when you’re older but it’s definitely still possible whether it’s natural, via (expensive) fertility treatments, or if you still struggle, adoption is always a beautiful option. My aunt is a lawyer and she chose to adopt two kids.

Women need to support other women and I wish this wasn’t a controversial topic. I think it’s part of the mommy wars.

Women are smart enough to do their own research, seek their doctor’s counsel, and make their own decision. Women don’t need horror stories, scare tactics, and guilt trips. Women can easily research on the facts from the studies on Pubmed or receive the facts from their doctors.

Yep, this topic gives me A LOT of ANXIETY, STRESS and GUILT about my life choices. I am not yet established in the career path I want to be in and I see grad school in my future. I’ll keep seeing my fertility specialist each year for check ups (I like him better than my OBGYN) as he’s able to count my eggs and check out their health. Last, he counted 18 and said I had nothing yet to be concerned about right now. I’m aware it will start to decline for women at 30 and decline more after 35. I will continue talking with my doctor about my career plans, my hope of two children, and trust the opinion of doctors on when will be best for me. Heck, if a baby comes earlier, I will still pursue my dreams and not let people like Lori & her ilk stop me.

I’m not going to let this discussion stress me out anymore than it has so I will be bowing out right now.

 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

8 hours ago, ihaveanexamintwodays said:

@AussieKrissy @HurricaneBells - just out of curiosity, where are you each from? are you by chance from the same area? i've literally never heard anyone say "fell" with the meaning of "became pregnant" before, until i saw it twice on the same page of this thread! i'm curious, haha. 

“Fell pregnant” is British slang for “got pregnant without trying.” I had no idea that anyone said just “fell,” or that people used it in Louisiana.

[HurricaneBells]

9 hours ago, ihaveanexamintwodays said:

@AussieKrissy @HurricaneBells - just out of curiosity, where are you each from? are you by chance from the same area? i've literally never heard anyone say "fell" with the meaning of "became pregnant" before, until i saw it twice on the same page of this thread! i'm curious, haha. 

 Oh it's probably an Aussie thing then I'm in Sydney but haven't noticed it said any other way elsewhere... That's funny, good pick up!

[SweetJuly]

When I was 18/19 I was certain that I wanted to be married by 25 at the latest and done having kids in my early 30s. I did want about 3-5.

My first serious boyfriend whom I met when I was 20 wanted to get married and have tons of babies asap, but I didn't feel that he was truly the right partner for me. At the age of 23 I met the man I thought I would marry, but we unfortunately broke up 1 1/2 years later.

This was a bit of a shock as I thought I had my life mapped out and suddenly was forced to start over. I moved to another country, dated (and slept...) around a little, and eventually met my husband shortly before my 26th birthday. Truth to be told, my entire being wanted to procreate with this man the moment I first saw him We got married about 2 years after we met, and I had originally thought that we'd start trying for a baby right away.

However, between our first meeting and our wedding we had started working in well-paid jobs, living a comfortable adult life after years of languishing as broke students, and we really enjoyed spending time together, travelling (in style! - I felt like a billionaire buying expensive Nutella in New Zealand and graciously gifting it to a backpacker whom we had offered a ride in our rental car), and just exploring life and our relationship together. Suddenly it was my husband who was hoping to start a family soon while I was getting more and more reluctant.

Last year, as I turned 30, we eventually decided to simply stop preventing and see what G-d had in store for us  what happened. If I got pregnant - wonderful! If I didn't - also fine, we'd continue living and enjoying life as we did.

LittleJuly was conceived in the first month of unprotected fellowship. An uneventful pregnancy ended with LittleJuly's uncomplicated natural birth on her due date. She has been very sweet, calm and super-compliant from the start, and any stress we encountered was caused simply by us being new to having a baby.

Granted, the first thing I said to my husband after I gave birth was "We're not doing this again!", but now that we've been through the first months and are slowly beginning to get the hang of this parenting thing, I find myself contemplating the idea of a second child (or more). We've already discussed names ?

Despite my "advanced" age of 31, we are nevertheless aiming for an age gap of several years, so trying to rein in any crazy Michelle-Duggar-style babyfever. We've decided to wait and see how things go with the three of us for about 2 years, and then stop preventing again if we still feel that we'd like a second child. We're not calling it "trying" because we won't actively pursue pregnancy or take recourse to any fertility treatment. Things were great when it was the two of us and things are great now that it is the three of us, so we will be content no matter what comes

[Lizzybet]

9 hours ago, ihaveanexamintwodays said:

@AussieKrissy @HurricaneBells - just out of curiosity, where are you each from? are you by chance from the same area? i've literally never heard anyone say "fell" with the meaning of "became pregnant" before, until i saw it twice on the same page of this thread! i'm curious, haha. 

I learned the term from watching ‘Call The Midwife’, which takes place just outside London, post WWII. 

I just assumed it was British/English.

[PurpleCats]

I’ve never really wanted kids.  It’s not like I had an active NO KIDS mentality, it’s juts that I never felt the desire TO have them like so many of my peers seemed to.  When I met my partner, he was very sure he wanted one or two, but the longer we’re together, the less he wants kids. 

We are both very career oriented, and having a child would restrict career growth.  I don’t want to be an absent parent, leaving the nanny to raise my child but I’m also not too keen on the setback having one would place on my career.  At this point, I think we’re better off as the fun, eccentric aunt & uncle.

[QuiverDance]

1 hour ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

“Fell pregnant” is British slang for “got pregnant without trying.” I had no idea that anyone said just “fell,” or that people used it in Louisiana.

 I was born in, grew up in, and spent 30 years in Louisiana, and I certainly haven't ever heard anyone use that expression.  Brits saying "fell pregnant" is common, but I never heard that expression until I was an adult.  I wonder what part of Louisiana the people who used the expression were from.  It is definitely not a typical Louisiana expression.  

[Mama Mia]

I came across this article regarding ages at 1st birth by area, education, marital status etc... sorry it’s only U.S. based, but it’s very interesting. 

I’m also very surprised to see so many people on here thinking 30 is “old” to start a family. But apparently the area you live in has HUGE  variations as to expectations. You can get County by county detail - with ranges from 31 down to 20. ( The article also has some rather nasty elitist spin I don’t like - but great charts !) 

And remember almost all of the information you find and stress on is about age at FIRST birth. 

Also, I think there is a balance between being realistic and pragmatic about increased risks, decreasing fertility - and realizing that it isn’t like a set age of 35 or 40 means “  OMG , I had this birthday, I went from 100% chance of conceiving and delivering a healthy baby to damn near impossible in one day!! That’s not how it works.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/08/04/upshot/up-birth-age-gap.html

[SweetJuly]

I think I know why "fell pregnant" might be used in Louisiana - "tomber enceinte" (to fall pregnant) is how you say it in French.

Disclaimer : I know nothing about Louisiana linguistics, just what it's like to live in a multilingual environment. Languages tend to mix and produce the funniest offspring. 

[Four is Enough]

I've heard people say they "caught pregnant" here in the Mid Atlantic region. 

[cascarones]

I'm still getting caught up, but have to chime in so I don't thrash about.

@singsingsing Thank you for that thorough extrapolation. If I hadn't just quit my job, I'd probably try to recruit you for an analyst to data scientist track. Averages are used in specific probability based statistics, because they are often the most accurate and predictable measure from the data they're related to and are trying to predict. You don't even flashlight predict your company based off of general stock market health, because it isn't accurate enough, you forecast off of historical records. In this case, known birth patterns and historical fertility, which you nicely explained in your methodology summary.  Bravo.

[QuiverDance]

31 minutes ago, SweetJuly said:

I think I know why "fell pregnant" might be used in Louisiana - "tomber enceinte" (to fall pregnant) is how you say it in French.

Disclaimer : I know nothing about Louisiana linguistics, just what it's like to live in a multilingual environment. Languages tend to mix and produce the funniest offspring. 

That's quite possible.  I should have thought of that.  I speak French, and so did most of my family, but I have never heard it.  

 

24 minutes ago, Four is Enough said:

I've heard people say they "caught pregnant" here in the Mid Atlantic region. 

This honestly sounds more "Louisiana" to me.  ???.  

Cajuns love to catch things, and "catch" is often used with "get," "retrieve," or "manifest".  "Mais, you not too smart.  You need to catch a clue."  "Catch me them sac-a-lait filets out the icebox, chere.  We gonna have us a fish fry."  "If I had a party like that my ole lady would be so bent outta shape she'd catch her a damn hernia." *

*These are all actual quotes.  

 

 

 

 

[NakedKnees]

I love this topic, but I feel like for many of us here, our experiences can be framed in scary ways and in warm fuzzy ways at the same time. Spoilers here just for length.

My difficult experiences:

Spoiler

 

I've never been certain as to whether I want kids. I'm now 28 and have unfortunately "backslid" in both career and finances, and am now in a worse place than I was three years ago on that front. It makes me sad that I was considering having kids with Mr. Knees three years ago and now I'm not. Why didn't we? What if we had?

Mr. Knees is fourteen years older than me and already has a child from his previous marriage. He's spent most of his life since his son was born living paycheck to paycheck. I've had friends tell me that he needs to "try harder," and it breaks my heart. 

I recently got back on the pill and need to admit to myself that for 3.5 years, I was hoping an "oops" would answer the baby question for me. I'm scared of what the changes I'm planning for the next year or two of my life hold for me and how they impact the baby question. Also- it'd be with an older father! In some ways, I do feel like I'd need to be prepared for certain commonalities with single motherhood.

It's like I can see two possibilities ahead of me: having kids at some point in the next decade and having all the joy that comes with that, or not having kids and having that type of freedom forever. Neither is more attractive than the other.

 

My good experiences:

Spoiler

 

I've been educated, I've traveled and worked, my teens and twenties have been very full of love and life and I have been able to make all of my choices out of my own volition. I'm still making those choices: applying to grad school, getting ready to move to be closer to my family. I see the joy on my partner's face at being able to possibly reboot his career a bit, and have every bit of faith that we have a base to support each other throughout.

I have a fantastic, easygoing, kind, and healthy stepson. We have a great relationship and it truly feels like I got the "best of both worlds." We're honestly communicating and getting ready for a big move that we have ahead of us.

I have a partner who will support me no matter what I choose to do, even if it means spending 30+ years raising as few as two minor children for him. We are not perfect but we can talk about anything and talk through anything. I go to bed with him breathing (snoring) next to me every night and genuinely feel relief and butterflies regularly. I know he loves me wholly. Everything else is worth it for him alone. 99% of the time, I'm completely fine with not being certain about whether I want kids or not.

 

I have a lot of faith in the idea that life will work out no matter what happens, and talking to older people I know has validated that again and again.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

Age is relative. When I was 16 I thought 30 was ancient, LOL!  As for when to have kids, hopefully you have them when you want to, no matter what your age. I had my kids at 27 & 29 for me that was the perfect age, not too old, not too young.  My BFF had her kids at 21, 23 & 26, another friend had her only at 33.  My sister had her kids in her late 30's because that is when she met someone she wanted to have kids with, she wishes she'd had them younger physically but is glad she waited until she was as old as she was financially and emotionally. 

I have a lot of friends who had kids in their late 30's and early 40's because that is when they were ready (and in a couple cases they never thought they wanted kids and found themselves pregnant and chose to stay that way and have the baby) and 1 because she tried for 12 years to have a baby and couldn't get pregnant until she was 37 and hasn't been able to conceive again and will be 40 in 3 weeks.  The magic age to have a child is when you and your partner are ready to have a baby, be it at 21 or 41. There is no right or wrong here, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

 

[SapphireSlytherin]

3 hours ago, QuiverDance said:

I wonder what part of Louisiana the people who used the expression were from.

The people I heard say it were from around Lafayette/Opelousas/Mamou.

[AliceInFundyland]

@luv2laugh When you do decide to go  take steps towards parenting,...the TTC club is remarkable and supportive. I recommend it. I recommend joining now if you haven’t.

I think you can find support out here.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

12 hours ago, luv2laugh said:

I feel like so many women that are older moms face so much ridicule and judgment.

from whom?  who are these people so concerned with other people's  family planning that this is a major issue.  

why do you care so much about what other people think?

[luv2laugh]

Thanks @AliceinFundyland I am feeling pretty panicked today about this. I even had a legitimate anxiety attack thinking about my fertility.

I can’t stand the thought of getting older because I’m worried about my fertility but I won’t be in a place to have kids at least until I finish grad school and I probably won’t be in grad school for two more years... gulp... I’ll keep seeing my fertility endocrinologist and let him know my plans and do check ups but who knows what happens. Plenty of people have kids in school and while working and I’m determined to make it work. 

I’m so worried about fertility (I am 25 but 26 in two weeks gulp...) that my fertility endocrinologist actually told me to see a therapist about it.

[Meggo]

I'm 44 and hubs is 49. we are older than probably a lot of our son's friends parents (unless they have older kids). 

And there have been a few times where Hubs & Boy have been out and Boy has asked a shop clerk for something only to have them say "You will need to ask your Grandpa." 
Or when Hubs told the bank teller we were going on vacation and they said "But - won't his parents miss him?" 

Yes - I would have liked to have had children earlier - and I think about it now - that I could have had a 15 year old now. (if I'd been able to get pregnant when we started trying). But.. I wouldn't trade this kiddo for the world and I know people who have kids that are younger than their grandkids - so ... it's all just weird. Age is a number.
 

[VelociRapture]

To anyone thinking about having kids: research your options and do what you think is best for you and your situation. Try to stay flexible and realize that sometimes reality doesn’t match up with your dreams. If it all works out the way you hope then that’s fantastic. If it doesn’t then you can try to adjust your plans accordingly to make the best of whatever situation you find yourself in. 

6 minutes ago, luv2laugh said:

Thanks @AliceinFundyland I am feeling pretty panicked today about this. I can’t stand the thought of getting older because I’m worried about my fertility but I won’t be in a place to have kids at least until I finish grad school and I probably won’t be in grad school for two more years... gulp... I’ll keep seeing my fertility endocrinologist and let him know my plans and do check ups but who knows what happens. Plenty of people have kids in school and while working and I’m determined to make it work.

I’m so worried about fertility (I am 25 but 26 in two weeks gulp...) that my fertility endocrinologist actually told me to see a therapist about it.

I don’t want to overstep (and I genuinely apologize if I do), but do you think maybe your Doctor is right and that therapy could be helpful for you on this? I kind of get the feeling from your recent posts here and on the Dillard thread that there’s more on your mind then you’re sharing right now (which, by the way, is completely ok! You’re under no obligation to share more than you feel comfortable sharing.) Maybe therapy could be a healthy way for you sort through some of those thoughts and relieve some of the emotion you feel over your fertility? 

(And again, I’m really sorry if I overstepped here at all.)