M Is for Mama 2: Quiverfull/Pinterest

[EowynW]

Fundies can be so irrational about having kids. I remember my Mom once getting so upset after my Dad said he thought all couples should take atleast a year to get to learn to live togethee and enjoy married life before having a baby. She thought it was irrational, and really not needed because "it's not mentioned in the Bible." 

And, when my brother was engaged, his fiancé became insistent that she wanted to not use condoms or any form or birth control and just practice NFP (BAD IDEA to just learn it literally 3 weeks before the wedding) and start having babies right off the bat. My dad & I didn't agree and I  tried to ask him what he wanted he just said "well I want her to be happy and this will make her happy" and my dad tried to encourage them to wait a bit. No go.  when I brought it up again before the waiting just to make sure he knew that he had a choice and could say no if he wanted,  and my mom cornered him and told him "you NEVER fault a woman for wanting a sweet baby" fresh out the gate into marriage and if that's what she wants that's what he had a duty to give her. His feelings or the $$$ aspect didn't matter because GOD and BABIES. It was so fucked up. 

[feministxtian]

10 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I have boys but my boys are more dramatic than most little girls I’ve come across. I don’t know why people say girls are the dramatic ones. So I assume there will be drama around the time of puberty. I just hope it dies down by the time they are half way through high school. I can’t take years and years of their fits and tantrums. And yes I know teens have tantrums. I’ve seen them and they are ugly! 

My daughter was the drama queen. My sons were just jerks. See, with my daughter, the aliens came and surgically removed her sense of humor when she was about 13. They finally replaced it when she was in her mid-20's. My sons just needed a quick pop upside the head and a shower. 

Boys tend to be a bit more dramatic when they are smaller (like oh...ages 5-10 or so) then they outgrow that and grow into being jerks. Girls, well, in my daughter's case, she was pretty much a drama queen from birth-ish. The nice thing about boy dramatics is that you can usually tease them out of the crappy mood. 

However, I was done for when they discovered that if they could crack me up I'd let them get away with whatever it was they were in trouble for...it was a weapon and they used it against me. Hell, they still do. Damn kids. 

Oh...Daughter finished her last college class this week. She finished her last semester of school while starting a new job and travelling for said job. She's not sure if she wants to walk at graduation...

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

@EowynW I've been wondering, and forgive me if this is too personal,,,,, is your SIL pregnant yet, considering she wanted all the baybeez right away and she and your brother were married in May (?).

Also, since your father thinks couples should wait and your mother thinks full steam ahead from the wedding night onward, did they have their first child in less than a year after their wedding?

Wanting/having children is such an odd (possibly not the right word) business. So fraught with conflicting and confusing decisions, emotions, expectations. Yours, your family's, the community's, the church's, society's.

Growing up, even though I played with dolls, I never thought about having children.  Truthfully I never really thought about getting married. I was focused on getting an education, having a career, traveling, and being the boss of me. I definitely wanted love in my life, I just wasn't longing for a husband  The one thing I knew was that I did not ever want to be pregnant. If I thought about children at all it was in a really abstract way.

I was older (over 30) when I married Mr. Dress.  We sort of discussed children, but made no decisions.  Turns out I'm not able to have children, so decision made for us.  I do sometimes think about what our children would have been like, but I don't feel a sense of loss or regret at being child free, neither does Mr. Dress.  I still know I would never have wanted to be pregnant.

Mr Dress and I have a full happy life with just the 2 of us and we've been (if I do say so) an amazing aunt and uncle,as well as helpful loving mentoring presences in the lives of several young people through out the years. 

So ironically, without actually ever being a mother, I've ended up doing a fair bit of mothering.

 

 

[EowynW]

@Red Hair, Black Dress my parents had me 3 weeks before their second anniversary. So no rush. 

And no, so far my SIL isn't pregnant yet. I am sure it's coming though. My sister will start that journey next year. I will be knitting all the baby things and enjoy being an Aunt  

To me, odd is the perfect word.  

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

Braggie is such a vile POS liar. She says 9 is the AVERAGE age of first porn viewing. I found nothing to back that up. Im so sick of fundies lying in order to paint the world as horrible and they are somehow above it all. 

[luv2laugh]

2 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Braggie is such a vile POS liar. She says 9 is the AVERAGE age of first porn viewing. I found nothing to back that up. Im so sick of fundies lying in order to paint the world as horrible and they are somehow above it all. 

Braggie is losing it because she cannot parent the kids and keep up the house without her two oldest sons. She is a control-freak of the Steve Maxwell kind and will not let them leave the roost until Della and the twins pick up the slack. Something as simple as them going to a dance must’ve given her an anxiety attack.

It’s hilarious that Braggie harps on about how she only watches “clean” Hallmark movies and no television (except family movie time) despite going to see the horror film, A Quiet Place with her husband.

[bea]

Pretty sure “A Quiet Place” isn’t fundie-approved.
Nine. Really? According to who?

[nickelodeon]

Isn't A Quiet Place about having more children than you can feasibly protect during the zombie apocalypse but continuing to give birth to more? This lady might find it #relatable.

[PianoGal]

54 minutes ago, nickelodeon said:

Isn't A Quiet Place about having more children than you can feasibly protect during the zombie apocalypse but continuing to give birth to more? This lady might find it #relatable.

Change the "zombie" to "alien" and, in my opinion, you're just about right! 

[Tigerchild74]

I enjoy my teens.  I find that I'm a much less stressed parent with them, because instead of doing everything for them or to them or being super instructive, now it's more problem solving and listening and learning when to shut up/speak up.

I think everyone has ages that they enjoy more than others.   I like the grub stage (where they don't do anything but eat and poop and cuddle), the toddler tantrum stage (screaming and thrashing does not bother me, whining hits on my last nerve, which is why I don't care as much for the preschool/early elementary years).  And I really love the teen years.  Our house is the hangout house for all their friends, and I just adore them all so much.

A few caveats though: through no feat of my own, my three older kids are for the most part pretty mellow, though one is a whiner by nature which irrationally triggers me (so its not really the age, it's that) but we're dealing with it.   None of my grubs had colic, gerd, or any feeding issues.  And my ADHD younger is a very friendly and happy child who is a lot easier to deal with than most.  This has nothing to do with my parenting and everything to do with genetics/luck of the draw and I know that.  So it's easy for me to enjoy these stages.

[JermajestyDuggar]

3 hours ago, bea said:

Pretty sure “A Quiet Place” isn’t fundie-approved.
Nine. Really? According to who?

She has ZIP to back it up. I’m sure she heard it from some other fundie homeschooling mom who heard it from a fundie blog. This is how they constantly justify their extreme sheltering of their children. I’ve heard just about every fundie with a blog do it. They talk about the big bad world and how it’s full of sin and they must do a shitty job of homeschooling them in order to protect them. None of them ever want to actually talk about statistics of good things happening in the mainstream world. Like smoking cigarettes is at a record low and so is abortion. They just want to make up statistics and cry about the world being driven by Satan and sin. 

[Seahorse Wrangler]

Waltzing was considered very risque in it's early days because the couple danced so close together.

[JermajestyDuggar]

46 minutes ago, Seahorse Wrangler said:

Waltzing was considered very risque in it's early days because the couple danced so close together.

But Braggie thinks it’s cute so it’s ok.

[SassyPants]

And her mom has ALL the kids tonight. If Abbie expects to be 1% the mother her mom is, she had better rest up as she’s going to be very busy!

[luv2laugh]

Her latest Instagram post about shielding her kids from worldly influences and fear-mongering about children being exposed to pornography at 9 is very condescending. 

If acting “holier than thou” was listed as a disease in a textbook, Abbie’s name would be underneath it. Look at her snapping back at one of her fan girls:

It is amusing that she always ends her aggressive remarks with something phony and a smile.

[NotQuiteMotY]

On 12/5/2018 at 9:53 AM, JermajestyDuggar said:

Braggie is such a vile POS liar. She says 9 is the AVERAGE age of first porn viewing. I found nothing to back that up. Im so sick of fundies lying in order to paint the world as horrible and they are somehow above it all. 

Ugh. She could have made that whole blurb a lot shorter and more relatable.

"I was nervous about sending my kids to a dance, because I had images of tweens doing the awkward zombie clutch and sway to really terrible pop music from 2002, or worse. Then I talked to my neighbor about it and it turns out I was worrying for nothing! This dance was more akin to an old-timey social event-- lessons in the waltz, two-step, Virginia reel, and more. Good, clean fun! They both came home beaming and chattering about the dances they'd learned and the partners they'd shared them with, many of whom had been barely acquaintances before this. It was a great and wholesome experience for all the kids who participated, and I'm so glad I decided to send them!"

[JermajestyDuggar]

17 minutes ago, NotQuiteMotY said:

Ugh. She could have made that whole blurb a lot shorter and more relatable.

"I was nervous about sending my kids to a dance, because I had images of tweens doing the awkward zombie clutch and sway to really terrible pop music from 2002, or worse. Then I talked to my neighbor about it and it turns out I was worrying for nothing! This dance was more akin to an old-timey social event-- lessons in the waltz, two-step, Virginia reel, and more. Good, clean fun! They both came home beaming and chattering about the dances they'd learned and the partners they'd shared them with, many of whom had been barely acquaintances before this. It was a great and wholesome experience for all the kids who participated, and I'm so glad I decided to send them!"

I like to keep things succinct so I think I hate her longwinded writing more than any other fundie on FJ. You did a much better job!

[PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea]

I've seen Abbie use lots of "facts" that turn out to be completely untrue. Presumably her pastor says them, she hears them on Fox News, or on some Facebook fake news thing and never bothers to check them because she's intellectually lazy and they fit her world view. There's a pretty cringey blog post on Black Lives Matter where she gets into all the fake/irrelevant black on black crime stats.

[PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea]

I'm guessing her opinions on BLM are pretty typical for a white, conservative Christian in the US but I'm Canadian so maybe I'm not the best judge!

Here's the blog: http://misformama.net/2016/07/brain-dump.html

 

She links to this article, which she says  is "so well-written and does such a good job of taking a lot of the emotional factors out of the issue, since it focuses on statistics and numbers instead.": https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Imprimis_April16.pdf

This includes reporting the high crime rate in black communities without taking the effect of systemic poverty and discrimination into account (and doesn't outright say it, but implies black guys are just more prone to violence somehow), including "the police could end all lethal uses of force tomorrow and it would have at most a trivial effect on the black death-by-homicide rate." It sort of implies that violent policing is the only possible "cure" to criminality, when other things like reducing alcohol availability and discouraging kids from dropping out work: https://www.vox.com/2016/2/15/10981274/crime-violence-policies-guns.

It also seems like, big picture, reducing inequality reduces crime (at least in Latin America): http://www.worldbank.org/en/news/feature/2014/09/03/latinoamerica-menos-desigualdad-se-reduce-el-crimen

Overall, the article glosses over the idea that the police should not be shooting anyone just because they maybe loitered/sold illegal cigarettes/robbed a store, And they seem to disproportionately do this to black people. Hmmm.

In my experience, sheltered white people usually have no idea why crime is higher in marginalized communities (here in Canada, you hear it more about Indigenous, Somali, and West Indian communities). Of course, they could educate themselves, but many don't bother.

 

[katilac]

55 minutes ago, PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea said:

including "the police could end all lethal uses of force tomorrow and it would have at most a trivial effect on the black death-by-homicide rate."  

Can they not see that the proper use of lethal force is its own issue, separate from the black death-by-homicide rate? For the individuals who are wrongfully killed by police, it's hardly a trivial matter and has zero connection to the overall homicide rate. 

[luv2laugh]

I have a problem with how Braggie used “Ghetto” in a title to describe a DIY project.

Here’s a snippet from the blog post where Braggie mentioned BLM:

”(If you don’t live in the States, 5 policemen were killed by a deranged sniper at a “Black Lives Matter” rally)...

I’ve pretty much run the gamut of emotions–sadness, anger, frustration, futility–and prayed (and talked to my husband) about it a lot. Ultimately, I know that we live in a sin-ravaged world in which hateful acts are going to be perpetuated by every skin color on the planet...

On a similar note, a black reader-friend contacted me, asking my perspective (as a white woman) on all of the racial turmoil our country is facing, and I was really honored by her trust. She’s a fellow Christian, and we’ve had good talks about various topics via message in the past (definitely the type of lady you wish you could sit down and chat with in real life). Of course, our experiences and perspectives differ, but I think we both agree that the main problem here is sin nature, so I mostly just sent her a link to this article which is so well-written and does such a good job of taking a lot of the emotional factors out of the issue, since it focuses on statistics and numbers instead.”

Abbie put BLM in quotation marks as if it’s not an actual movement nor one that cares about black lives. I can’t believe her. It’s interesting how she emphasizes that hateful acts are “perpetuated by every skin color on the planet” in a post where she’s talking about BLM. Is she stating that black people aren’t the only victims of hate crimes? Although yes, that is true, they’ve been systematically oppressed and discriminated against for decades. How inconsiderate of Abbie to imply that the BLM movement doesn’t matter, in this post.

http://misformama.net/2016/07/brain-dump.html

[ladyaudley]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-36527681 is the closest I can find in terms of age ranges. I'm sure I read somewhere a while ago that children as young as nine have been found to come across porn, but that's not the same as an average, Braggy....

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 hours ago, ladyaudley said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-36527681 is the closest I can find in terms of age ranges. I'm sure I read somewhere a while ago that children as young as nine have been found to come across porn, but that's not the same as an average, Braggy....

Oh yes, young children are exposed to porn. Especially as part of grooming. But like you said it’s not the AVERAGE. I’m sure it’s not even close to the average. There’s usually a fairly wide age range due to circumstances. I was much too young the first time I saw a porno. However I was not the norm in my peer group. I had friends who didn’t see a porno until college. I know things are different these days because internet porn is so prevalent. However parents are becoming more and more savvy at controlling the content their children are viewing. In the earlier days of the internet, parents had no clue how to block certain websites. But people my age know how to better deal with parental blocks and it helps protect our children so they aren’t exposed at such young ages. I’m not saying kids aren’t seeing porn. My guess is the average age is around 13. I’m not saying it’s ok. But it’s not 9.

[PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea]

On 12/6/2018 at 3:05 PM, katilac said:

Can they not see that the proper use of lethal force is its own issue, separate from the black death-by-homicide rate?

Ugh, all of this. Reminds me of the Pope saying, "well, most sexual abuse of children is caused by family members," with the implication that therefore why worry about priests? IT'S ABOUT THE ABUSE OF POWER, DUMMIES.

[JermajestyDuggar]

7 minutes ago, PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea said:

Ugh, all of this. Reminds me of the Pope saying, "well, most sexual abuse of children is caused by family members," with the implication that therefore why worry about priests? IT'S ABOUT THE ABUSE OF POWER, DUMMIES.

I would love to point out to the pope that second to family members is family friends. Which would include priests.