Josiah and Lauren Part 11: The Baby Watch Continues

[Pecansforeveryone]

Why Jessa and Ben, thank you for the reminder you have the same shitty beliefs as the rest of your family. Really, thank you. Sigh, Josiah and Lauren look nice in the photo. Too bad it isn't a get together for aspiring young film makers. I would be supportive of Josiah attending that. 

(I just realized that Josiah would happily be making anti-abortion propaganda. Dang it, Duggars we can dress you up, but we can't take you anywhere nice can we.) 

[Daisy0322]

So I have a question about pregnancy crisis centers.... I was deemed suddenly  high risk and put in bed rest 18 weeks with my son and there was a pregnancy center that helped get me things we would ourcsob would need since our income got unexpectedly cut in half and I was still in college..... iscthat notvwgat most of them do? Because it really helped us stay on our feet during a rough time? 

[clueliss]

Can we please not speculate on if someone is pregnant based on how they look in a photo?  It's disgusting.  And personally, way back in 9th grade, I had someone in home-ec class come up to me, pat me on the belly and ask when I was due.  Yes, I'm serious.  I was like 14.  I carry weight in my belly.  Still do.  Just more of it than I did then.  So the pregnancy speculation based on photos is revolting in my world.  It is body shaming.  Furthermore, how many times have folks (in general) done this to Micheala Bates Keilen before it was revealed she had fertility issues?  Or done this to someone else and a miscarriage happened.  Please stop.  

[singsingsing]

Yeah, I'm done speculating (out loud) about Duggar pregnancies based on appearance. Maybe if one of them shows up looking eight months pregnant, wearing maternity clothes and cradling their belly. Otherwise, nope. It's pointless. If they're pregnant, they're pregnant, if they're not, they're not, and we'll know soon enough.

Josiah and Lauren seem to be on a real anti-choice kick right now (obviously they all always are, but these two are publicizing it a lot) so I'd imagine they'll announce a pregnancy fairly quickly when that time comes. If there's one thing fundies love, it's using their own pregnancies and babies for their political agenda!

[SweetJuly]

Just now, singsingsing said:

Josiah and Lauren seem to be on a real anti-choice kick right now (obviously they all always are, but these two are publicizing it a lot) so I'd imagine they'll announce a pregnancy fairly quickly when that time comes. If there's one thing fundies love, it's using their own pregnancies and babies for their political agenda!

Absolutely! The Duggars always seem the most vocal about their anti-abortion sentiments right when they're about to announce a pregnancy.

Interestingly, my own experience with pregnancy, birth and a young baby made me even more pro-choice (if that is possible) It's a tough commitment even if there is no major complications, and nobody should be talked or coerced into undertaking it if they don't feel deeply ready. 

[nickelodeon]

I think if she was expecting, whoever's been posting these anti-abortion photos would never be able to resist mentioning how their baby is the size of a half-eaten bag of pistachios and already has fingernails, eyebrows and its own purity ring #prolife

[JillyO]

5 hours ago, Daisy0322 said:

So I have a question about pregnancy crisis centers.... I was deemed suddenly  high risk and put in bed rest 18 weeks with my son and there was a pregnancy center that helped get me things we would ourcsob would need since our income got unexpectedly cut in half and I was still in college..... iscthat notvwgat most of them do? Because it really helped us stay on our feet during a rough time? 

No, that's not at all what most of them do (in the US). Not sure where you're located - the last time we had this discussion, some f our Canadian FJers chimed in that Pregnancy Centers there do more of what you're describing.

In the US, what they mostly do is prey on vulneraable pregnant women and try to convince them not to have an abortion. To this end they employ such lovely methods as:

• Lying to the woman about the current developmental state of the fetus
• Pushing women into having unwanted ultrasounds to get them to "see their baby," often while clamining to be medical providers when they are not
• Promising the women help and support in raising the child, only to then drop them like a hot potato as soon as it's too late to have an abortion, or at the latest, very shortly after the baby is born

The sole purpose of Crisis Pregnancy Centers is to get women not to have abortions. They don't give a rat's ass about the woman or the baby after it's born. They also don't care much about pregnant women who come to them in need of help if they're not considering an abortion.

Seriously, watch the John Oliver piece posted above. It's extremely educational, and Crisis Pregnancy Centers are disgusting!

 

[Alisamer]

33 minutes ago, JillyO said:

The sole purpose of Crisis Pregnancy Centers is to get women not to have abortions. They don't give a rat's ass about the woman or the baby after it's born. They also don't care much about pregnant women who come to them in need of help if they're not considering an abortion.

Yeah, at BEST they'll hand out a pack of diapers and some formula samples or something, but the goal is to confuse and delay until it's too late to have an abortion. Then BYE! Have a good life! Don't ask for help, though. Pull yourself up. Bootstraps.

[SassyPants]

13 minutes ago, Alisamer said:

Yeah, at BEST they'll hand out a pack of diapers and some formula samples or something, but the goal is to confuse and delay until it's too late to have an abortion. Then BYE! Have a good life! Don't ask for help, though. Pull yourself up. Bootstraps.

Something the Duggars and Bates couldn't do without selling away their children's lives, privacy, private moments and anonymity,  and from what I can see, most of the 2nd generation Duggars couldn't do either.

Can you imagine how some of them would be living without the TV shows? No education, few skills and no desire to actually work for a living?????

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 hour ago, clueliss said:

Can we please not speculate on if someone is pregnant based on how they look in a photo?  It's disgusting.  And personally, way back in 9th grade, I had someone in home-ec class come up to me, pat me on the belly and ask when I was due.  Yes, I'm serious.  I was like 14.  I carry weight in my belly.  Still do.  Just more of it than I did then.  So the pregnancy speculation based on photos is revolting in my world.  It is body shaming.  Furthermore, how many times have folks (in general) done this to Micheala Bates Keilen before it was revealed she had fertility issues?  Or done this to someone else and a miscarriage happened.  Please stop.  

Thank you.  It's gross and completely pointless.

When I was just out of high school someone asked when I was due, because I was wearing an empire cut dress, as Lauren is.

I am 5' 7" and was 119 lbs. at the time.

For whatever reason people associate that style with maternity wear, despite it being worn by non-pregnant for ages.  It wasn't a flattering look on me, but the speculation was ridiculous then as now.

 

[Pecansforeveryone]

I used to oppose abortion except for rape, incest, and to save the life of the mother. Losing my religion allowed me to become pro-choice in at least the 1st trimester. I'm sorry fundies, there's no viability outside of the womb in the 1st trimester so it's not murder. You can't commit murder at a cellular level. You just can't.  Abortion is sad. A child being born into unstable or unloving circumstances is even sadder. My closing thought: how in the heck is your fundie deity sovereign if he is unable to prevent unwanted pregnancies as a means of preventing abortion, if in fact abortion is so very wicked? If you claim abortion is so terribly wicked, murder even you would accept passing out condoms as the lesser of two evils. Fundies are full of shit.

(I apologize for the ramble.) 

[adidas]

On 10/22/2018 at 1:28 AM, miss_batson said:

I also think she doesnt look pregnant. And if she is, it is early pregnancy.

Nice mustard cardigan in pic 2  

[Nikedagain?]

11 hours ago, JillyO said:

No, that's not at all what most of them do (in the US). Not sure where you're located - the last time we had this discussion, some f our Canadian FJers chimed in that Pregnancy Centers there do more of what you're describing.

In the US, what they mostly do is prey on vulneraable pregnant women and try to convince them not to have an abortion. To this end they employ such lovely methods as:

• Lying to the woman about the current developmental state of the fetus
• Pushing women into having unwanted ultrasounds to get them to "see their baby," often while clamining to be medical providers when they are not
• Promising the women help and support in raising the child, only to then drop them like a hot potato as soon as it's too late to have an abortion, or at the latest, very shortly after the baby is born

The sole purpose of Crisis Pregnancy Centers is to get women not to have abortions. They don't give a rat's ass about the woman or the baby after it's born. They also don't care much about pregnant women who come to them in need of help if they're not considering an abortion.

Seriously, watch the John Oliver piece posted above. It's extremely educational, and Crisis Pregnancy Centers are disgusting!

 

Fearmongering. Also, the doc "Jackson" is a great. Highly recommend! 

 

[PumaLover]

I really, really thought they were expecting. I don't know if it was a dream or what, but this is why I shouldn't browse FJ late at night. 

I didn't know anything about the crisis pregnancy centers until I read about them in the past year or so on here, and I was horrified. All those years of watching the Duggars and how they "support" the pregnancy centers, I thought oh, that's nice. Now that I know the truth I know just how destructive they really are. 

I am raising someone else's child. She couldn't take care of her, or chose not to take care of her. She went on to have several other children, most of whom are being raised by other people. I know other people who are wonderful foster parents, taking care of the kids no one else can or will care for. What bothers me so much is the centers only want the mothers to have the babies, then they're tossed aside. 

And from what I've understood, these "pregnancy center volunteers" are also most likely Trump supporters and the same people who vote against healthcare and welfare and all those social programs that these mothers will now need. So much hypocrisy, but I read here so often I know I shouldn't really be surprised anymore.

[Mama Mia]

11 hours ago, JillyO said:

No, that's not at all what most of them do (in the US). Not sure where you're located - the last time we had this discussion, some f our Canadian FJers chimed in that Pregnancy Centers there do more of what you're describing.

In the US, what they mostly do is prey on vulneraable pregnant women and try to convince them not to have an abortion. To this end they employ such lovely methods as:

• Lying to the woman about the current developmental state of the fetus
• Pushing women into having unwanted ultrasounds to get them to "see their baby," often while clamining to be medical providers when they are not
• Promising the women help and support in raising the child, only to then drop them like a hot potato as soon as it's too late to have an abortion, or at the latest, very shortly after the baby is born

The sole purpose of Crisis Pregnancy Centers is to get women not to have abortions. They don't give a rat's ass about the woman or the baby after it's born. They also don't care much about pregnant women who come to them in need of help if they're not considering an abortion.

Seriously, watch the John Oliver piece posted above. It's extremely educational, and Crisis Pregnancy Centers are disgusting!

 

That really might vary by area. When I worked with an agency that provided social services for women and kids the one near us provided a large amount of material and practical support to people. This is in California, in a medium size town. They weren’t providing abortions, obviously, but they would try to hook the women up with resources for housing, income, child care, medical care...etc.. they’d provide maternity clothes, diapers, baby things. Sometimes transportation. I know they have a definite focus on preventing abortion, but this one really did try to be a resource to the mom’s long term.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

I know it's not a popular opinion but all pro-life people aren't the same.

I have a family member who is very pro-life, she also was a foster mother and ended up adopting three sons through the foster system.  

I don't agree with her on many political issues but her convictions are real and heartfelt and she put her time and money where her mouth is and does not believe the responsibility for the kids ends at birth.

All socially liberally leaning people are not the same.  I doubt there is anyone on this site with whom I'd be in perfect political alignment on every issue.  There are cartoons on each side who tow the party line without critical thought...and there are people on both sides who have nuanced and diverse beliefs even if they don't agree with yours 100%.

 

8 minutes ago, Mama Mia said:

That really might vary by area. When I worked with an agency that provided social services for women and kids the one near us provided a large amount of material and practical support to people. This is in California, in a medium size town. They weren’t providing abortions, obviously, but they would try to hook the women up with resources for housing, income, child care, medical care...etc.. they’d provide maternity clothes, diapers, baby things. Sometimes transportation. I know they have a definite focus on preventing abortion, but this one really did try to be a resource to the mom’s long term.

We have one here like that as well.  Thank you for saying this - the black and white thinking of assuming every independent org is run exactly the same with the same motivations just ..

the black and white thinking makes it very hard to read FJ sometimes.  And very hard to see how we're any different than fundies who also assume "others" are evil without distinction.

[Kailash]

Probably naive of me but I feel like I’d be perfectly lined up politically with a handful of posters here. My soul sisters. 

[Rachel333]

My mom had a friend who was very involved with that CPC. One woman was pregnant with twins and initially wanted an abortion but was convinced not to. She had a lot of issues with drugs and alcohol resulting in both babies being born with FAS. People from the center provided a lot of support for that woman, including giving her lots of supplies once the babies were born. When the babies were a few months old that woman ended up saying she couldn't handle taking care of her children and asked my mom's friend to adopt the babies, which my mom's friend did do.

I've heard a lot of stories of people going to great lengths to support pregnant women who go to the center for help, and continuing to provide support after babies are born. I do think it happens, and a lot of pro-life people really do care about those women and children. I don't think it's accurate when people claim they don't care at all, and that stereotype confused me when I was younger because that wasn't my experience at all with pro-life people I knew.

The thing is, I obviously only heard about the good stories, and that still doesn't excuse the predatory tactics. Women like the woman I mentioned earlier should also be supported if they choose abortion rather than being coerced into something they don't really want. No woman should have to continue an unwanted pregnancy, and that's especially the last thing a woman needs if she is already struggling with mental health issues.

[candygirl200413]

I think last time we talked about this topic I talked about how either on showtime I watched a documentary called Jackson about the last abortion clinic in Mississippi and it followed a girl named April who was 21 or 22 and had I think 3-4 kids? It also discusses CPC and I don't want to give too much to those that haven't seen but it's a very good watch (and really sad once you follow up on her and the situation about it being the last abortion clinic in the entire state). 

[just_ordinary]

Maybe someone can describe the concept of an abortion clinic a bit more. Because I don’t get it. An abortion here is done at a normal hospital. There are no places that solely do abortions as far as I know. And I could imagine that such a facility would have to deal with acceptance problems here as well, even though most people don’t really care if others choose to have an abortion or not. It is still a taboo to talk about though.

How does it work? It is like a hospital only providing one procedure? Are the doctors and nurses normal employers or volunteers (not sure that would be allowed here for insurance reasons). If complications occur- do they have beds and facilities to care for the patient? Most abortions performed in a surgical procedure are done under general anaesthetic which means you have to stay a few hours but only get released if someone will stay with you for the next 24h (you have to sign a form) otherwise they would have to cover the 24h.

[bal maiden]

@just_ordinary this might help https://slate.com/human-interest/2015/11/why-are-abortions-performed-in-clinics-not-hospitals.html although hospitals in the US do also provide abortion services. They just keep very quiet about it.

[SapphireSlytherin]

14 minutes ago, bal maiden said:

@just_ordinary this might help https://slate.com/human-interest/2015/11/why-are-abortions-performed-in-clinics-not-hospitals.html although hospitals in the US do also provide abortion services. They just keep very quiet about it.

Not ALL hospitals in the US provide abortion services. My geographical area is highly Catholic, with a lot of Catholic-based hospitals.

[bal maiden]

19 hours ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

Not ALL hospitals in the US provide abortion services. My geographical area is highly Catholic, with a lot of Catholic-based hospitals.

Yes, thanks for clarifying. I was trying to communicate that the existence of stand alone clinics does not mean that hospitals are forbidden from performing abortions, rather than suggest that all hospital do abortions on the DL. 

[VeryNikeSeamstress]

On 10/26/2018 at 8:28 PM, candygirl200413 said:

I think last time we talked about this topic I talked about how either on showtime I watched a documentary called Jackson about the last abortion clinic in Mississippi and it followed a girl named April who was 21 or 22 and had I think 3-4 kids? It also discusses CPC and I don't want to give too much to those that haven't seen but it's a very good watch (and really sad once you follow up on her and the situation about it being the last abortion clinic in the entire state). 

I watched this recently. That Beavers lady who runs the clinic is ridiculous. When asked if she though April would get pregnant again, she started squawking about abstinence, self control, and how April needs to 'value herself more and not just give herself away.' Of course, Beavers' clinic isn't in to providing anything other than abstinence education to expectant mothers.

These people make me so mad, especially considering how many vocal anti-choicers are either past childbearing age or male.

 

[BernRul]

Yeah, the black and white thinking on abortion sometimes makes me uncomfortable. Sometimes I totally get it, because I'm feeling anrgry about pro-lifers who are total hypocrites, and that makes me stereotype all of them. And I can't stand the thought of a woman being forced to go through a pregnancy against her will.  But then I remember that until about 5-7 years ago, I considered myself pro-life, and a feminist, and was a registered Democrat, all at the same time. 

I went to a school that had a very pro-life atmosphere, and if you were pro-choice you kept it quiet in most cases. My classmates and teachers didn't want to control women or support the patriarchy; most were liberal on other issues, particularly women's rights, the rights of the poor, and gay rights. They just sincerely believed that life starts at conception. 

I might get flak for this, but pro-lifers aren't the only ones who lie or manipulate information to suit their narrative. I personally can't stand the line "it's just a bundle of cells." Because unless it's a super early abortion, it's a bit more than that.  I feel like pro-choice people shouldn't deny basic fetal/embryonic  development, because it just gives ammo to the pro-life crowd. It's nowhere near the same as those CPC (the ones that manipulate women should be illegal, it makes my blood boil) but we still shouldn't do it. 

I also don't have a problem with religions being anti-abortion. I feel like it does make sense from a religious POV to say "all life is sacred" and "life begins before birth." I have a problem when people force their opinions on others, or vote one issue, but I don't have a problem with Ben + Jessa or Lauren + Josiah feeling that way, even if I disagree. Some people act like anyone who is pro-life is a fundie extremist and that's just not the case.