Dullards 63: Law School Participation Trophy

[bella8050]

Are they ever going to explain the career jump? I know its been speculated about a lot but even for them it seems so random coming one day after posting about his ministry school graduation. 

I did get a good laugh at the suit and briefcase look. He so needs one of those first day of school signs. 

[Lisafer]

I'm still laughing about @zenbaby's comment that Derek can be the Duggar consigliere. It's just too apropos. I keep imagining Derek as Tom Hagen now. "Josh, why am I out?" "You're not a wartime consigliere, Derek." 

(In order to credit the correct poster's comment, I had to wade through three pages of thread drift involving asparagus pee). 

[CoveredInBees]

whenever I think of OfJill, I get a mix of that lawyer chicken from futurama and Will from the inbetweeners..............

[nokidsmom]

35 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

But let's just say I would not be surprised if Derick's made another 180 turn and five years from now we're discussing his latest scheme, which has nothing to do with accounting, missions, ministry, or law.

Same here.  Even if he makes it through law school, I can totally see him deciding to go down some other path, something completely different from what he did before.  

[Ivycoveredtower]

Now I'm wondering where the Dillards  will live. If the house they were in belongs to the cross church school and he's graduated and on to law school you would think they'd be expected to move to make room for new students. 

[nst]

3 hours ago, 2manyKidzzz said:

Yes, go to Europe whenever you can. Orange....I like those candies, orange slices, as well as candy peanuts, if they are not at all stale.

Plus iced cookies from Wegmans. That’s all....

 

but here is the kicker..my dad wants to meet us after my mom has visited her family 

Oh Dewreck - she wants to share a ROOM 

and she snores 

 

[justoneoftwo]

I expect Jill will do better than she did with Walmart.  She has 2 kids to look after, she is more used to being on her own, and she has grown a bit in this time (she would have had to).  I also expect she will have #3 during his time in school.  All that can help, and if she is still on good terms with her family she can use them for support too.

[Alisamer]

11 minutes ago, nokidsmom said:

Same here.  Even if he makes it through law school, I can totally see him deciding to go down some other path, something completely different from what he did before.  

I'm surprised they haven't gone full-on Christian hippie yet. He seemed to be leaning that direction with the solo mission in Nepal, and Jill's "midwife skills" would be helpful if they went that way. Unfortunately his intolerance and hatefulness would make that sort of life difficult for them. I feel like Derrick has no idea who he is or wants to be, and nothing he's tried has suited him, including marriage and fatherhood.

I think therapy would be far more useful to him than law school.

[Ivycoveredtower]

4 minutes ago, justoneoftwo said:

I expect Jill will do better than she did with Walmart.  She has 2 kids to look after, she is more used to being on her own, and she has grown a bit in this time (she would have had to).  I also expect she will have #3 during his time in school.  All that can help, and if she is still on good terms with her family she can use them for support too.

I don't think Jill will do much better or any better really she followed him on trips that were meant for the school dragging one or both of her kids along and making sure to plant herself front and center on Derick's lap for many cringe worthy pictures along the way. 

[Drala]

D'Wreck's socio-political views may not change as a consequence of three years in law school, but I cannot imagine that he will not change in some fundamental ways as a consequence of professional training -- assuming he sticks it out and graduates.  (I'm betting he quits.)  Even if his core beliefs don't change, law school should teach him to think in more nuanced ways about a broader scope of subjects than he currently does.  Jill, who is not known for her critical thinking, intellectual curiosity, or academic achievement, is limited to kinder, kirche & kuche.   I can see Jill & D'Wreck talking about church-related stuff, because that is a common interest and area of experience.  They will continue to talk about the children, to the extent the kids' developmental needs can get D'Wreck's attention. (Although D'Wreck doesn't seem especially interested in parenting.)  I don't see him talking with Jill about his studies, school experience, or professional development, which will consume the majority of his time.  Jill's ability to provide intellectual companionship will only diminish as he proceeds with law school.  It's going to be lonely for Jill, and I can definitely see DoucheWad looking down his nose at her as he becomes more academically accomplished.  The decision to enroll in law school does not bode well for the survival of their marriage.    

[justoneoftwo]

2 minutes ago, Ivycoveredtower said:

I don't think Jill will do much better or any better really she followed him on trips that were meant for the school dragging one or both of her kids along and making sure to plant herself front and center on Derick's lap for many cringe worthy pictures along the way. 

Sure, on trips.  But she did stay home alone on their missions.  So she has some additional alone time under her belt.  Also law school doesn't involved "fun" trips, its a day job mostly.  I also don't expect Ofjill to be one to stay at the school studying, I know I didn't.  We will see, but I don't think this is as bad for Jill as others do.  

I think its mostly bad because he just wants to be a student, not go to the real world, and thats a problem.  Its also bad because if he does go to the real world he won't like it (most lawyers don't, and he seems to really fit the bill for one who doesn't).  Also I expect they are taking on a tun of debt to do this.  The average graduate of his school has $68,924 in debt, and supporting a family of 4 I expect his to be higher.  Debt like that is scary to all of us, and would be so much more so if you were raised to see all debt ever as bad.

1 minute ago, Drala said:

D'Wreck's socio-political views may not change as a consequence of three years in law school, but I cannot imagine that he will not change in some fundamental ways as a consequence of professional training -- assuming he sticks it out and graduates.  (I'm betting he quits.)  Even if his core beliefs don't change, law school should teach him to think in more nuanced ways about a broader scope of subjects than he currently does.  Jill, who is not known for her critical thinking, intellectual curiosity, or academic achievement, is limited to kinder, kirche & kuche.   I can see Jill & D'Wreck talking about church-related stuff, because that is a common interest and area of experience.  They will continue to talk about the children, to the extent the kids' developmental needs can get D'Wreck's attention. (Although D'Wreck doesn't seem especially interested in parenting.)  I don't see him talking with Jill about his studies, school experience, or professional development, which will consume the majority of his time.  Jill's ability to provide intellectual companionship will only diminish as he proceeds with law school.  It's going to be lonely for Jill, and I can definitely see DoucheWad looking his nose at her as he becomes more academically accomplished.  The decision to enroll in law school does not bode well for the survival of their marriage.    

I agree he will look down his nose more, but I don't think he will learn to think in more nuanced ways.  I know law schools talk about learning to "think like a lawyer" but I honestly haven't seen that much in my experience.  It will make him think he is much more thoughtful, but as for actually making him think, probably not.

[Rachel333]

I'm tempted to ask L.E. Modesitt what he thinks of a fundie quoting him like that. He is quite liberal, and blogs often about how much he hates Trump. I don't think he would be impressed with Derick's idea of justice. 

[Drala]

2 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

I'm tempted to ask L.E. Modesitt what he thinks of a fundie quoting him like that. He is quite liberal, and blogs often about how much he hates Trump. I don't think he would be impressed with Derick's idea of justice. 

 Derick displays quite a lot of cognitive dissonance.   

[sparklymagie]

Law school is a really, really, really terrible place to be when it's done as a "I don't know what I want to do in life. Let's try this!" placeholder.

[Georgiana]

I think one of Jill's issues is that she doesn't understand what a healthy, adult relationship looks like when both people are not tied at the hip 24/7.  She never had that modeled for her by her parents.  Instead, she had parents that reinforced the idea that if you are not CONSTANTLY available to your spouse, your spouse will stray.  Jill, I think more than any other grown Duggar, wants HER PARENTS' marriage.  And that's normal, but it's probably not going to happen for her simply because of circumstances, and unfortunately I don't think she sees that.  She and Derick are probably never going to be able to be together 24/7 like JB and Michelle were for most of Jill's formative years.  

I think that while a lot of Jill's initial issues were due to the sudden transition to married life and being alone that will probably improve this time around, I think that she will still struggle to understand what HEALTHY space looks like in a relationship.  I think distance makes her panic, and when she panics, I think she probably tries to overcompensate, which may overwhelm someone like Derick who HAS seen this space modeled in a healthy relationship and so sees all of this as completely normal.  

It's really not an illogical jump to take Gothard teachings of "If you are not available to your husband when he needs you, he will fulfill his desires elsewhere" and Michelle's "Anyone can make your husband a sandwich, but only you can fulfill his desires"  (or whatever that gross quote was) and come to the conclusion that if you are not nearby to service your husband at ALL times, he'll cheat. They really DO try and train women to be incredibly clingy and dependent on their husband ALL the time.  Jill takes it to 11, but I think it's rather remarkable we don't see more fundie wives act like Jill.  I think actually Joy might have been similar, but because she married someone from the same group who has the same always together expectation, it's not an issue.  

[nokidsmom]

31 minutes ago, Alisamer said:

I feel like Derrick has no idea who he is or wants to be, and nothing he's tried has suited him, including marriage and fatherhood.

I think therapy would be far more useful to him than law school.

I completely agree with this.  I think Derick jumped into marriage and fatherhood before he was fully prepared plus the courtship model did not allow him to get to know Jill for an extended period of time which might have clued him in on some of her issues, tbh.  He was new in his first job.  He had traveled in Nepal.  Perhaps if he had taken more time in this phase of life post college, he might have worked out what he wanted to be before marriage and fatherhood, perhaps allowing him to do his "career tourism" (to quote another poster) while still single and not dragging a wife and kids all over the place.

Therapy might not only be useful to him in deciding what he wants to be, but also sort out the many experiences, some of which were not so pleasant, over the last several of years.  He's been through a lot in a short period of time: death of his dad, his mother's illness, the possibility of her not surviving, marriage, surgery, difficult births of two children, revelations about his brother in law.   There's definitely some issues going on with Derick and it seems very possible if not probable that they are tied to these experiences.

[Ivycoveredtower]

4 minutes ago, Georgiana said:

I think one of Jill's issues is that she doesn't understand what a healthy, adult relationship looks like when both people are not tied at the hip 24/7.  She never had that modeled for her by her parents.  Instead, she had parents that reinforced the idea that if you are not CONSTANTLY available to your spouse, your spouse will stray.  Jill, I think more than any other grown Duggar, wants HER PARENTS' marriage.  And that's normal, but it's probably not going to happen for her simply because of circumstances, and unfortunately I don't think she sees that.  She and Derick are probably never going to be able to be together 24/7 like JB and Michelle were for most of Jill's formative years.  

I think that while a lot of Jill's initial issues were due to the sudden transition to married life and being alone that will probably improve this time around, I think that she will still struggle to understand what HEALTHY space looks like in a relationship.  I think distance makes her panic, and when she panics, I think she probably tries to overcompensate, which may overwhelm someone like Derick who HAS seen this space modeled in a healthy relationship and so sees all of this as completely normal.  

It's really not an illogical jump to take Gothard teachings of "If you are not available to your husband when he needs you, he will fulfill his desires elsewhere" and Michelle's "Anyone can make your husband a sandwich, but only you can fulfill his desires"  (or whatever that gross quote was) and come to the conclusion that if you are not nearby to service your husband at ALL times, he'll cheat. They really DO try and train women to be incredibly clingy and dependent on their husband ALL the time.  Jill takes it to 11, but I think it's rather remarkable we don't see more fundie wives act like Jill.  I think actually Joy might have been similar, but because she married someone from the same group who has the same always together expectation, it's not an issue.  

as I was reading this I was thinking of Joy and Austin it can work for them though because Austin basically flips houses they are already living in or near or works at the family camp so even if Joy has twenty babies she'll still always be around Austin or his family. Jill wanted something but married the wrong person for that. which I'm sure she realized too late. or maybe hasn't realized at all. she married someone who she thought she'd spend her life on the mission field with. problem with that is that Jill is terrified in other countries has hard pregnancy's so if she plans to have more kids needs to be near modern medicine oh and Derick sucks at Missionary work. 

[HarleyQuinn]

He probably took off the suit and put away the briefcase immediately after the picture was taken and grabbed his Pistol Pete tee with matching backpack instead. 

[Georgiana]

1 hour ago, nokidsmom said:

I completely agree with this.  I think Derick jumped into marriage and fatherhood before he was fully prepared plus the courtship model did not allow him to get to know Jill for an extended period of time which might have clued him in on some of her issues, tbh.  He was new in his first job.  He had traveled in Nepal.  Perhaps if he had taken more time in this phase of life post college, he might have worked out what he wanted to be before marriage and fatherhood, perhaps allowing him to do his "career tourism" (to quote another poster) while still single and not dragging a wife and kids all over the place.

I sort of wonder how Jill's midwifery was presented to Derick.  WAS it made clear that this was essentially for show/a placeholder until she married and had kids?  Because even here we did somewhat debate how much Jill would use her midwifery, and it's very possible that Derick initially felt he was marrying someone who had income potential if the family needed it.  

Because she was definitely sold by JB as "Hey, she'll make a GREAT missionary wife because she can help with a prenatal ministry!".  And to be honest, it's a natural jump to think that if she would make a great missionary wife because she can provide prenatal care in a mission clinic, that she could also provide that care stateside for an income if the family needed her to step in temporarily to make ends meet.  Jill's midwifery accomplishments were really being pushed to the front during the whole courtship saga.  And looking back, it's obvious she was being oversold in terms of what she would be capable of or willing to do once married, but did Derick know that?

Gothardism is very weird in that evidently it's completely acceptable for a woman to work if on a missions trip, but completely unacceptable for them to do that same work stateside for pay.  I do wonder how much of that double standard Derick understood, since during their courtship everything was geared towards them going off on a mission together.  

I hate to give Derick any sort of benefit of the doubt, but I can see that being something he was not clear on until after marriage. Jessa, Joy, Jinger...they were all obviously SAHMs only.  But even here we thought there was a possibility that Jill would work after marriage.  I wonder if Derick really knew what sort of marriage he was entering into.

[RainbowSky]

Where is Jills certificate?

[SweetLaurel]

20 minutes ago, RainbowSky said:

Where is Jills certificate?

  Ummm - with  Jesus?

Was being snarky  - but I used to teach SS and told my kids that every year - that one teacher pointed out the window, toward a tree and said,"Oh, look! what is that?" and one of the kids said, "Well, I'd say it was  a squirrel but since this is church, it has to be Jesus."    I'd tell mine, Jesus isn't always the right answer.   Use your brains and common sense.    Something the fundies often don't do.  

[Ms. Squishels]

I think Derrick is inclined toward being a "professional student" and would rather be in school than working in the real world.  But my take on him going to law school is that his plan is to be one of those lawyers who represents Christians who are persecuted.  Something similar to Jay Sekulow.  These type of lawyers may, for instance, sue a county whose school system won't allow a student Bible study before school or prayer at a football game, that type of thing.  But I also agree that within a few years, he is likely to change paths again.

[nokidsmom]

8 minutes ago, Georgiana said:

I hate to give Derick any sort of benefit of the doubt, but I can see that being something he was not clear on until AFTER marriage. Jessa, Joy, Jinger...they were all obviously SAHMs only.  But even here we thought there was a possibility that Jill would work after marriage.  I wonder if Derick really knew what sort of marriage he was entering into.

I have wondered the same thing, that Derick wasn't clear on what, tbh, Jill would truly bring to the table.  And not just in terms of her midwife training but I suspect Derick had a few surprises post marriage.  I don't think he really got to know her.  I don't think he had any idea of how needy she would be, how limited she really was, how much the family dog and pony show would require his participation and furthermore how much of a mess of a family he was marrying into (Joshgates).  

I don't think he envisioned his life as being what it is today and I think law school might be the plan of the moment to get it back on track, whatever that is.

[Lurker]

Derrick looks like he has modeled himself on Alex P Keaton in that picture.  If this is how he really went to class, he was probably more dressed up than his instructors.

 

 

 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

4 hours ago, Ais said:

FFS, all I can think of is this. SMDH, he's a such a douche.