Lori Alexander 47: Frugal ... Sort of ... For a rich person

[SilverBeach]

23 minutes ago, Imrlgoddess said:

I was not taught to hate when I was Catholic, actually my mother told me to hate was sinful. 

I wasn't taught to hate, and I don't think hating evil wrongdoers is wrong, sinful, or any of that. I'm not talking about hating folks because of normal human imperfection, as we all have said or done things that hurt others. But, if I had been in chattel slavery like some of my ancestors, I would have hated my owners and that would have been reasonable. And don't all decent humans hate Adolf Hitler? I just don't see how the person can be a separate entity from their actions when they repatedly do heinous acts and show no remorse. Some folks are just sadistic and sociopathic, and wreak havoc on all who have the misfortune of coming into contact with them. It sounds righteous to say you don't hate Lori, but just hate everything she says and does. That IS lori. 

[FundieCentral]

@Krissy:

Speaking as someone who struggles with tact and generally loves to debate controversial issues: I would echo what @Escadora has been saying. 

The thing is, you say things that you know would be met with some opposition, and when the opposition comes, you are surprised or storm off because you interpret them as personal attacks. This is an online forum. We only have our words, and so everything you write will be taken apart. Sometimes that’s a painful process. But usually sitting through it makes us better writers and thinkers, because that’s how we learn. And least for me that has been the case, because I’ve been forced to think through what I say before I say it, which is admittedly not my natural temper. Storming off sulking is decidedly not the mature thing to do. Sit here, read, learn, and choose your words wisely as you respond. No one is coming to your house with pitchforks. But if I may say: the tone with which you’re posting does read like you aren’t trying to be a part of this community, but more like you came to instigate conflict - I don’t know anything about you, and I don’t know how intelligent you are, what your life story is, etc. But in my opinion our interactions on this forum should occur on the basis of good intentions, and instigating doesn’t qualify as one. 

[Don'tlikekoolaid]

Whispers .......I think she's gone......Hollerluya ....shhhhhh

[Seahorse Wrangler]

To be fair to @Krissy, I was the person who first used the term ultimate sin WRT suicide.

 

[Imrlgoddess]

2 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

I wasn't taught to hate, and I don't think hating evil wrongdoers is wrong, sinful, or any of that. If I had been in chattel slavery like some of my ancestors, I would have hated my owners and that would have been reasonable. And don't all decent humans hate Adolf Hitler? I just don't see how the person can be a separate entity from their actions when they repatedly do heinous acts and show no remorse. Some folks are just sadistic and sociopathic, and wreak havoc on all who have the misfortune of coming into contact with them. It sounds righteous to say you don't hate Lori, but just hate everything she says and does. That IS lori. 

I dig what you're saying.  I didn't mean to come off uppity.  My mom was my catechism teacher, she had a tendency to use the education to her personal advantage.  There are certain words & verbiage I have problems with even now because my mom was very "hands on" & my sister & I were well trained a'la fundi-style.  I don't hate her exactly...it's hard to explain.  It's more like an extreme disgust?  If that makes sense?  I already have internal battles not blindly resenting wealth, when I encounter someone like her it throws me into a tailspin & all I can think is 'eat the rich' & that fight starts all over.  I know my issue is petty & one-sided, totally based in my own insecurity.  The word 'hate' for me became an even bigger no-no when I found PP & Lori.  PP triggers intense fear in me & Lori's message triggers my upbringing...I guess the idea of being even a tiny bit like them scares me to death.  You're so correct that hating someone like Hitler or Manson is reasonable, I think one of my hang ups is that they insist God hates.  I'm not Christian anymore but I have a hard time with a deity that hates.  It's just a personal hang up.

[Joyce]

3 hours ago, Krissy said:

So we hate Lori because she oppress women, doesn’t let them speak their opinions (she deletes them), puts tons of women down, makes them feel like she knows everything even if another has a valuable thought, am I getting everything? 

I don't hate Lori, but she hit Ken and her children many times. Then she said that she was not an abuser.

[Escadora]

13 minutes ago, Seahorse Wrangler said:

To be fair to @Krissy, I was the person who first used the term ultimate sin WRT suicide.

 

I mean honestly at this point I don't really think that matters. You haven't been an asshole, here. You haven't been judgemental about suicidal people and dismissive of mental health, been rude to members on the site, you haven't flounced and then come back, and you haven't displayed signs of being a blatant leghumper/ troll. 

Krissy, however, did all those things. And now she appears to have either flounced for good or called it good for a few hours. It's kind of a shame, because she and I did have a nice interaction on on the previous thread and I found her to be kind and empathetic in that one instance. However, like I mentioned before, we're all people, and whilst we agree on some topics, we won't on all (using the general 'we' here, not the you and I 'we').

Was I impatient and more insulting than I would normally be? Absolutely, and maybe that led to me not being entirely calm and fair. I lost my best, most close friend to suicide when I was 17 and it started the biggest downward spiral in my life so far that I'm still, still, six years later, trying to recover from. It's a hot-button issue for me. Krissy insinuating and outright saying that my friend's suicide (and all suicides in general) was sinful disgusts me, and belittles to such an appalling degree the pain and suffering my friend must have gone through. Whether or not it is taught that suicide is a sin truly doesn't matter to me (but if you're (general you're) going to make theological arguments, then you had damn well be prepared to back them up), but the lack of empathy in that teaching is disgusting to the point where if it truly does have basis in doctrine, then I know for damn sure that I'm an atheist.

Maybe my personal feelings aren't excuse/reason enough for my initial outburst, and if anyone was hurt by what I said, then I am sorry - truly sorry, not just pretend sorry - but everyone has their topics that just instantly rile them up, and I think that in situations like these, empathy and understanding for all involved are the only way forward. I blew up about this when it came out that Lori deleted the hotline number. I'll probably blow up about it again in the future. We have to take these things, our subjects of deep sadness and anger, as they come, and hope that people can look past it.

I hope Krissy changes her mind and decides to take a more compassionate, involved view on suicide. I wish the same for everyone who teaches/ was taught that suicide was a sin. But the good thing about FJ is that no one has to conform here. She's free to keep her (in my opinion) crappy beliefs, but there will be discussion about it when it happens, and it won't always be pretty and polite. 

 

[Curious]

1 hour ago, usmcmom said:

Krissy interacts with us in a way that is very similar to the interaction style of Ken and Lori when they respond to their "haters."  She's passive aggressive, adopts a self-victimizing attitude, responds condescendingly and deflects.  She's been studying the Alexanders WAAAAAAYYYY too thoroughly....or she is one of them. 

*looking for paranoid emoji now*

Aside from the fact that Ken seems physically incapable of responding in anything less than 10 paragraphs of mansplaining and Lori would last 2 seconds without the ability to delete, I already checked yesterday and not any of the Alexanders as best I can tell.

[AliceInFundyland]

@Escadora It’s ok. That was legitmately awful. Mental illness/depression/suicide are triggers for many of us. You’re all good. And handled it well. 

 

[feministxtian]

Oh, I hate...I hate with a fine, cold rage. I hate many people and ideas. Then we go down to detest and dislike. 

I'm one of those psychos who can hold on to anger and grudges for years and years. I don't consider it a virtue by any stretch of the imagination though...

Suicide...yeah, I spent serious time thinking about how to off myself and succeed. I know now that going off the anti-depressant meds will never happen for me...and my sweet hubby pays for the office visits and meds with money we really don't have...and tells me that I'm the priority here (see abusive x-husband for reference).

Nobody who has not experienced the darkness of depression can't begin to fathom what it's like. To hate waking up every morning still alive and literally PRAYING to die. 

[SilverBeach]

49 minutes ago, Imrlgoddess said:

I'm not Christian anymore but I have a hard time with a deity that hates. 

I totally hear you. I am Christian and I have a problem with a deity that hates in the way Lori and her kind (PP, etc) say God does. Lori and her ilk have fucked up beliefs about God, and they do not see God as love despite that also being in the bible that they idolize so much.

[Free Jana Duggar]

2 hours ago, formergothardite said:

 

Even Billy Graham states that suicide is not the unpardonable sin.

https://billygraham.org/answer/is-suicide-the-unpardonable-sin/

ETA: even if suicide was a sin because it is murder, it still wouldn't be an unpardonable sin. 

I agree. Suicide is not an unpardonable sin.  I lost a cousin to suicide.  His mom shipped him off to military school and pretty much didn't want to be bothered with him. Then, she disappeared completely when he was 16. My grandma took him in for a while, but she was really too old to take care of him.  

He started acting out and getting in trouble. All he wanted was his mother. Eventually, he found his birth father, who denied he was his child and wanted nothing to do with him.

The years and years of hurt became too much...

I've always looked at suicide as dying from an illness, not a sin. 

[Demonfan]

Lori and her WTF ery were mentioned on the podcast The Scathing Atheist.

[SilverBeach]

23 minutes ago, Escadora said:

I hope Krissy changes her mind and decides to take a more compassionate, involved view on suicide. I wish the same for everyone who teaches/ was taught that suicide was a sin.

Yeah, because where is the mercy in declaring suicide a sin? In condeming hurting people? Christians without compassion butter my biscuit. They don't model themselves after Christ at all.

[KnittingOwl]

13 hours ago, Curious said:

That sounds like lovely yarn.  Have any of you tried the "roving" yarn before?  When yarn goes on sale I will try to pick up a few single skeins of yarn that I haven't used before.  Since my husband has to go with me and put up with me going up and down the aisles several times while I'm making decisions (and time can really get away from me), I try to involve him so I asked him to pick a yarn he liked.   He picked a really bright variegated yarn that was kind of shiny.   I made a hat for myself out of it and when I was working with it, I kept thinking it had a different texture.  I finally looked at the label and it was listed as "roving."  

It's machine wash/dry (basically my only requirement in yarn) and it worked up really nicely.  I probably wouldn't use it for anything but hats though because it's a smallish skein and it'd be too expensive to make anything else with it.

I have actual roving because I also spin, but I haven’t tried knitting with any of it. A lot of the knitting ends up so loose (looking at you silly blankets)

[ladyicantxplain]

14 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

I totally hear you. I am Christian and I have a problem with a deity that hates in the way Lori and her kind (PP, etc) say God does. Lori and her ilk have fucked up beliefs about God, and they do not see God as love despite that also being in the bible that they idolize so much.

I am a Christian as well, and completely agree with you.  It's not about the book; it's about the Author, and the Author isn't worth serving if He is full of hatred, from my perspective.  It's taken almost 50 years for me to get rid of much the religion that infused my life from shortly after birth, and I AM REALLY HAPPY ABOUT THAT now.

The hatred is one thing.  

The Alexander's insistence that God the Father is a sadist, intent upon causing women and wives to SUFFER, and delighting in their "suffering" for "righteousness" is worse than making Him a "hater", as far as I'm concerned.

I cannot serve a sadist, since that would make me a masochist by default, and I'm really not into self-inflicted pain.  It doesn't make these women holy to become spiritual masochists by following these perverse teachings the Alexanders preach.

What kind of Father wants his girls to suffer?

 

[EowynW]

3 minutes ago, KnittingOwl said:

I have actual roving because I also spin, but I haven’t tried knitting with any of it. A lot of the knitting ends up so loose (looking at you silly blankets)

I'm teaching myself to spin too! I was gifted a wheel and a lot of fiber by dear older fiber friend. The fiber isn't the best but I'm practicing and dreaming of the day when I can buy some lovely fiber. My goal is to spin and dye much of what I knit. 

[KnittingOwl]

6 minutes ago, EowynW said:

I'm teaching myself to spin too! I was gifted a wheel and a lot of fiber by dear older fiber friend. The fiber isn't the best but I'm practicing and dreaming of the day when I can buy some lovely fiber. My goal is to spin and dye much of what I knit. 

That’s awesome!! What kind of wheel do you have?

I started with drop spindles and got the hang of drafting. I tried to switch to a double-treadle (Louet Julia), but never really got the hang of my feet and hands. I switched to an electric spinner. Still working on having my tension even. 

[wild little fox]

9 hours ago, Sarah92 said:

Lori, no where is the Bible does it say a husband can't help clean a house or that he's only supposed to work. No where unless you're taking a single verse out of context. Helping others do things is part of serving others. If a man wants a lot  kids he better be helping out at home. 

Nah, Lori wouldn't do that!

And, just a reminder for you Lori: If you block, delete, and ban your audience then they will disappear because they can't comment or even read what you post. I bet a large number of them are too intimidated to post or participate in chat because you wield the ban hammer on anyone for even slightly disagreeing with you. Soon there will just be you and a handful of people who are just as sick and evil as you in your echo chamber. 

.... insert tumbleweed gifs here ...

[nelliebelle1197]

5 hours ago, Krissy said:

I don’t have to be quiet. Ignore me if I bother you. I learned how to use this function on this site today since removing accounts isn’t allowed. 

You said a few pages back you were leaving because you did not fit here. You're back already?

You cannot remove your account but you can be deactivated if you ask.

[Seahorse Wrangler]

52 minutes ago, Escadora said:

I mean honestly at this point I don't really think that matters. You haven't been an asshole, here. You haven't been judgemental about suicidal people and dismissive of mental health, been rude to members on the site, you haven't flounced and then come back, and you haven't displayed signs of being a blatant leghumper/ troll. 

Krissy, however, did all those things. And now she appears to have either flounced for good or called it good for a few hours. It's kind of a shame, because she and I did have a nice interaction on on the previous thread and I found her to be kind and empathetic in that one instance. However, like I mentioned before, we're all people, and whilst we agree on some topics, we won't on all (using the general 'we' here, not the you and I 'we').

Was I impatient and more insulting than I would normally be? Absolutely, and maybe that led to me not being entirely calm and fair. I lost my best, most close friend to suicide when I was 17 and it started the biggest downward spiral in my life so far that I'm still, still, six years later, trying to recover from. It's a hot-button issue for me. Krissy insinuating and outright saying that my friend's suicide (and all suicides in general) was sinful disgusts me, and belittles to such an appalling degree the pain and suffering my friend must have gone through. Whether or not it is taught that suicide is a sin truly doesn't matter to me (but if you're (general you're) going to make theological arguments, then you had damn well be prepared to back them up), but the lack of empathy in that teaching is disgusting to the point where if it truly does have basis in doctrine, then I know for damn sure that I'm an atheist.

Maybe my personal feelings aren't excuse/reason enough for my initial outburst, and if anyone was hurt by what I said, then I am sorry - truly sorry, not just pretend sorry - but everyone has their topics that just instantly rile them up, and I think that in situations like these, empathy and understanding for all involved are the only way forward. I blew up about this when it came out that Lori deleted the hotline number. I'll probably blow up about it again in the future. We have to take these things, our subjects of deep sadness and anger, as they come, and hope that people can look past it.

I hope Krissy changes her mind and decides to take a more compassionate, involved view on suicide. I wish the same for everyone who teaches/ was taught that suicide was a sin. But the good thing about FJ is that no one has to conform here. She's free to keep her (in my opinion) crappy beliefs, but there will be discussion about it when it happens, and it won't always be pretty and polite. 

 

I'm so sorry you went through that.  I would never be judgemental about such a  topic as suicide.

I know several people who committed suicide in their late teens or early 20's ( early-mid 1980's). They were pupils at the same school and I knew them slightly. They were not close friends but the whole idea  I had been taught that they were sinful was really the last straw for me as a wavering believer. I fell away from Christianity.

At the same time, my mother started to return to being a Christian which lead to some awkward interactions at the time.  Her faith was growing while mine died.

[Curious]

4 minutes ago, KnittingOwl said:

That’s awesome!! What kind of wheel do you have?

I started with drop spindles and got the hang of drafting. I tried to switch to a double-treadle (Louet Julia), but never really got the hang of my feet and hands. I switched to an electric spinner. Still working on having my tension even. 

I used to follow a woman that has her own sheep and alpacas and she has her yarn for sale sometimes.  It's beautiful, but at this point in my life, I'm happy with my commercial acrylic yarn which is infinitely cheaper.   I totally get why handspun/dyed yarn is so expensive and don't begrudge anyone that can afford that and I think it's absolutely justifiable to charge more for that type of yarn.

I thought about buying a grab bag type box once, but I realized I would probably never actually use it and having a box of pretty (and expensive) yarn that I just look at is silly.

I have a bad habit of throwing away the wrappers so I had to search around to find this.  This is what is says about the yarn:

Quote

The self-striping nature of Landscapes® creates beautiful, saturated bands of color similar to that of the horizon sunset. Landscapes® is a premium acrylic, single plied roving yarn that has a satiny feel and a richly colored palette. With its beautiful colorways, you can create stunning garments and accessories that make simple stitches look like art.

The above is the color I got.  I see it's got no wool in it @Briefly so you could try it if you were so inclined.  I'll try to get my husband to take a picture of the hat I made before he goes to bed.

[feministxtian]

I have two friends who lost their beautiful children to suicide. I cannot fathom the pain they must feel every day. These two souls couldn't see out of the dark clouds they were under. Two bright, beautiful young men with their lives ahead of them couldn't see any other way out. 

Is that the unpardonable sin? I don't think so. I believe in a God of mercy and love...He knew these two young men were hurting and in his infinite mercy and grace accepted them into his arms. 

I believe in a God of mercy, love and grace. I would not presume to speak for him, as I believe he is far wiser than I will ever be...and he is able to forgive and love more than I ever could. 

[EowynW]

@Curious oh landscape! I've knit a hat with it and a shawl and both turned out beautifully. I love their colors. And how soft it is. 

24 minutes ago, KnittingOwl said:

That’s awesome!! What kind of wheel do you have?

I started with drop spindles and got the hang of drafting. I tried to switch to a double-treadle (Louet Julia), but never really got the hang of my feet and hands. I switched to an electric spinner. Still working on having my tension even. 

I have a drop spindle too & an Ashford Kiwi double treadle. 

[dairyfreelife]

4 hours ago, Krissy said:

So we hate Lori because she oppress women, doesn’t let them speak their opinions (she deletes them), puts tons of women down, makes them feel like she knows everything even if another has a valuable thought, am I getting everything? 

No one here will ever delete anything you say. You are free to say whatever you wish within the boundaries of the TOA. Everyone else has the same rights on FJ and as such are just as free to disagree with you. People disagreeing with you and saying why does not equal you being oppressed here. It's not comfortable to have a sudden storm of opposition to your opinion, but just as you gave your opinion, they have a right to give their opinion of your opinion. 

Instead of reacting with hostility that so many are pushing back on your "valuable opinion", maybe try and ask yourself why there's such push back? Why is every single person saying I'm incorrect? Facts and opinions are also not the same thing. For example, if I said, "I think green is a lovely color," that's clearly my opinion. Someone may disagree and say they believe purple is much more lovely color. Both are opinions and neither is claiming either as a fact. If I said, "Green is the best color," and some may disagree, but because I am making a statement as if fact, they may also ask where I base this fact that green is the best and why blue or yellow are not just as nice? 

Your proclamation that suicide is the ultimate sin does not appear an opinion, but you seem to be declaring it as a statement of fact. If you don't know, but it's what you've been taught your entire life, it's okay to admit that as well. Understand though that people may try and get you to rethink your ideas and prior knowledge and that "always taught" is not a way to prove something as true. It's okay to admit that you simply don't know and apologize as well. Everyone makes mistakes or says incorrect things. We are human after all. 

I don't think anyone here has claimed to know everything either. No one can know everything, it's not possible. It's okay to admit we don't know and even more important to acknowledge that someone else DOES know more about a topic than I and learn from them. 

While Krissy may have flounced, I wanted to say this anyway just in case she or anyone like her, is reading.