Lori Alexander 47: Frugal ... Sort of ... For a rich person

[Hisey]

I'm pretty insecure about my cooking, so occasionally I try a fundie recipe. For people who dedicate their lives to cooking and cleaning, it always surprises me how bad their recipes are.

Lori was no exception. I thought, if she's been making roast chicken every four days for 30+ years, she must know what she is doing.

She does not. Her roast chicken was bland, soggy and boring. She does not truss the chicken. She basically salt and peppers it and sticks it in the oven. No imagination, no little tricks to get a crispy skin, nothing.

My own roast chicken is so, so much better. I did not invent the recipe. Here is the link:

https://www.epicurious.com/recipes/food/views/my-favorite-simple-roast-chicken-231348

[feministxtian]

Chicken or turkey...rub a little butter on that bad boy...hit it with some salt and pepper. Tuck some butter up under the skin at the breast too. NOM!!!! 

I NEED a good kitchen...and winter...cuz I don't cook in the summer unless it's fast and easy. 

[Sarah92]

thread drift:  Is Dave a new worshipper of hers? I don't recognize the name. Regardless, he's another male that follows her that can't  bare to take responsibility for short-comings sometimes found in the male population. Nope it's evil feminists.  

Idk when these guys are gonna realize that the majority of power holders in the world are still men. And guess what? The world's still pretty crappy. We have a president who claims to be Christian but has had multiple affairs and is generally incompetent. But hey he has a penis so that makes it okay. Dave here seems to think that when women are equal they gain some type of super power to magically emasculate males. It's almost like genitals doesn't affect how good or bad of a leader someone is but their heart and thoughts certainly do.

Pro-tip Dave, men, specifically Christian men, are responsible for their own actions. If they're poor leaders that's on them. I am responsible for my own actions. I don't make men make bad decisions. 

Please don't get me wrong. I'm not bashing all men. I have a lot of guys that I live in my life. But gosh online dating has introduced me to a lot of dinguses. And then there's guys like Dave. 

Edit: Dave's wife does not seem to have a Facebook. That kinda concerns me and he has no pictures with her. That seems telling. 

[Liza]

16 hours ago, Koala said:

My health is still not very good.  I still struggle daily trying to figure out how to get well but I know the Lord will take care of me.  

Oh, this post is so manipulative.  So guilt-inducing.  Why is it her daughter's job to "serve her".   If Lori is that ill, how does she spend a couple of months on vacation?  Where does she get the energy to cook, clean and do all the things she claims to do so perfectly?    I don't buy it.   

Did all of her kids move far away?  Anyone know?  

 

[Frog99]

4 hours ago, Sarah92 said:

thread drift:  Is Dave a new worshipper of hers? I don't recognize the name. Regardless, he's another male that follows her that can't  bare to take responsibility for short-comings sometimes found in the male population. Nope it's evil feminists.  

Idk when these guys are gonna realize that the majority of power holders in the world are still men. And guess what? The world's still pretty crappy. We have a president who claims to be Christian but has had multiple affairs and is generally incompetent. But hey he has a penis so that makes it okay. Dave here seems to think that when women are equal they gain some type of super power to magically emasculate males. It's almost like genitals doesn't affect how good or bad of a leader someone is but their heart and thoughts certainly do.

Pro-tip Dave, men, specifically Christian men, are responsible for their own actions. If they're poor leaders that's on them. I am responsible for my own actions. I don't make men make bad decisions. 

Please don't get me wrong. I'm not bashing all men. I have a lot of guys that I live in my life. But gosh online dating has introduced me to a lot of dinguses. And then there's guys like Dave. 

Edit: Dave's wife does not seem to have a Facebook. That kinda concerns me and he has no pictures with her. That seems telling. 

I did some stalking on his page- it would appear he and his wife are divorced. I think he’s one of those bitter about that. 

She goes by a first and middle name now instead of first and last. 

Based on his comments, I’m not surprised they aren’t together. His comments made me want to puke. 

[Curious]

53 minutes ago, Frog99 said:

I did some stalking on his page- it would appear he and his wife are divorced. I think he’s one of those bitter about that. 

She goes by a first and middle name now instead of first and last. 

Based on his comments, I’m not surprised they aren’t together. His comments made me want to puke. 

It's really hard for me to believe all these men that post on Lori's blog/fb/etc are single/divorced.  I mean they are obviously such great catches, how have they not been swatting women back in hordes while they pick the perfect mate /sarcasm

I'm so sick of these manchildren that blame women for not recognizing their awesomeness and standing in line to marry them.

Let's think about this for a second...SERIAL KILLERS and people in prison have people that write to them and want to marry them, it's not like there aren't women out there willing to befriend/marry men from virtually ALL walks of life.

Maybe it's time for these schlubs to realize that it's not every woman on earth that is the problem, but rather something wrong with themselves and work on fixing that instead of spending so much time wallowing about how evil women are because they won't wait on them hand and foot.

[Sarah92]

Either divorced,singled, or in eternally sexless marriages (eyeroll) I wonder why?  Jk I don't. I think what gets me is the smug, Ken like way most of these guys write. It's like they think what they're writing really is just so special and righteous. Half the time their rambles don't make sense and the other half is so far out of biblical context or reality it's hilarious. 

[Koala]

You know, I was thinking this morning about Lori, and her rather bizarre obsession with spanking.  

Recent studies have shown us the long term detriment of such "discipline" and we now know that the effects can be far reaching.  To say that it's a damaging practice is an understatement. 

I can speak from personal experience when I say that the way I was raised (by what I now realize to be a mother and grandparents w/ a tendency towards violence- especially to me) took a great emotional toll on me.  I grew up loathing myself.  It was awful, and it wasn't until I moved out on my own that I began to slowly pick up the pieces of a pretty much shattered childhood- that they insisted was near perfect.  It was a real mind fuck.

Was my family horrible?  Yes, in that way they were.  Their intent wasn't abuse...they thought they were right. Their actions, however, were very much abusive.  They had me thoroughly convinced that I alone was the cause of all family problems.  My mother's divorces?  My fault.  My mom?  The family saint.  Me?  Her evil twin.  That is really how it was presented.  I can remember my grandparents telling my mom's 4th husband, "She broke up ____'s last marriage.  Watch out, or she'll break up yours too."  

My age when I supposedly broke up my mom's 3rd marriage? 11.  Her ex?  Yeah, he had a bit of a problem- he knocked up his mistress.  But the divorce?  100% my fault.

Thankfully, I knew from the time I was very young, that I didn't want to be like them.  I married a man who shared my views, and we succeeded in proving that you can raise wonderful children without ever raising a hand.  That is my one thing as a mom that I am so proud to say- my children never knew anything of the kind of life I had as a child. They had two parents who were 100% committed to what many now refer to as "gentle parenting".  We made that commitment before they were ever born, and we stuck to it.  

But anyway, thinking of all that got me thinking of Lori, and the person she turned out to be.  Studies have now proven that spanking can lead to violence and aggression later in life.  Is it possible, that the Lori we see today, is a person who was incredibly damaged by the act she so often endorses?

In May of 2015, Lori wrote a Mother's Day letter.  The first line?  Heartbreaking.

Quote

Dear Mom,

Thank you for the way you raised me. You wanted me to obey you so you spanked me and disciplined me so I would grow up to be a disciplined adult. 

But we all know that Lori didn't grow up to be a disciplined adult.  She grew up to be a very violent adult, who was often angry and out of control.  She hit her children, and she hit her husband.  

Violence, begat violence.

In a 2016 post, Lori writes:

Quote

When I was a disobedient child, my mom would tell me to go to my  room. The anticipation of knowing I was going to get a spanking was not fun. {This is why I was a fast learner!} She would come in with a flyswatter and spank me on my bare bottom. Afterwards, she would hold me in her arms and tell me why she spanked me. "I want you to grow up to be a disciplined adult, Lori, and this is why I had to spank you.

Perhaps she did want her to grow up to be a disciplined adult.  That isn't what happened, though.  She grew up to be an angry adult.  An angry adult who bares out what the studies have told us.  Spanking can lead to violence and aggression.

Lori continued the cycle of violence.  How do I know?  Because in that very post, she continues on to say:

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We did the same with our children, only we used an eighteen inch piece of leather strap. 

You know, we can all sweep it under the rug- ignore the studies and pretend that Lori is just naturally an ill tempered shrew.  OR, we can look at her doing exactly what the studies said she might, and perhaps realize that she was a person who was damaged by parents who hurt her.

Does that excuse her?  God no.  We all have a choice.  But it might explain her.  And it might serve as a cautionary tale to other parents, who, like Lori's mom, wanted to raise a "disciplined adult".  So she hit her.  And she humiliated her.  And she hurt her.

I don't want to hear, "that's just the way things were done".  Some people didn't raise their kids that way.  Some people followed their instincts and did better.  Some people were kind.  Robert Ingersoll wrote a "sermon" in the late 1800s, and in it, he talks extensively about parenting without violence.  It was always possible.

Anyway, my medicine keeps me awake these days, and these are just some of the things I was thinking about this morning.

 

[polecat]

13 hours ago, Koala said:

Lindsay- Your husband's controlling behavior isn't all that uncommon- in abusers.

If you are still in need of regular "discipline", then I would suggest that you're in no position to be raising a child.

Good lord.

Do these people ever consider just TALKING to each other???

If he was concerned about the messages his daughters were getting from their mom's heavy makeup use, then he could have SAID that instead of issuing blanket demands. 

[EowynW]

A leather strap/belt hurt way  worse than a flyswatter when I was a kid,  so Lori definitely upped the pain on her kids. 

[Koala]

14 minutes ago, EowynW said:

A leather strap/belt hurt way  worse than a flyswatter when I was a kid,  so Lori definitely upped the pain on her kids. 

She did.  And again, perhaps that bears out the studies.  Pain, humiliation, helplessness, (and anger at said helplessness) created an extremely violent adult.  

Lori is- (forgive me for saying this) not an intelligent person.  She is also not very emotionally mature.  I think it's highly possible that she was just never able to process her very complex feelings about what happened to her.  Because there is NO denying that it was painful and humiliating.  It doesn't matter that the pain could have been worse, or the object used could have been "worse".  The pain and humiliation were still there.  The damage was still done.  

I think it's a natural tendency to get into the pain Olympics (not saying that's what you're doing @EowynW).  I've watched grown adults practically glamorize the beatings they received as children, anxiously "topping each other" with the various objects used to inflict pain on them.

I think as a society, we really have to re-frame how we look at this subject.  We so easily spot abuse for all citizens, save the children.  For some reason, people just can't seem to wrap their mind around the fact that a child deserves a right to life without the threat of their caregivers inflicting pain on them.

Anyway, I think the take home message is this- Be kind to your children, and never resort to violence.  

[EowynW]

I agree. It's something we talk about often in our home since both of us came from spanking homes. My last spanking was when I was 14. So much for that whole "it's just for the childhood years" theory. 

[Liza]

@Koala   We are on the same page regarding Lori and the effects abuse had on her.  Interesting that you and I had a very different response :  to end the cycle.  I guess you have to be in touch with what happened, realize it was wrong and harmful, and decide it ends with you.   Lori, is not in touch with her self, is a Fundamentalist and has used the Bible to make sense of what happened to her and as a guidebook in how to treat others.  Sad that she missed the Jesus part.   I wonder, though, if Lori may just have been hard-wired (by narcissism) to be an abuser.  The understanding today abut NPD is that it is both genetic and learned.  Just a thought.  Narcissist have no empathy so they do not care if they inflict pain on others.  They need to be right ... always ... and in control.  They have little to no ability to self-reflect ... so that would explain her just not 'getting it'.

[polecat]

10 hours ago, feministxtian said:

YES!!!!! Just don't come in the summer, you'll die. Hopefully by then we'll be living someplace suitable for entertaining. 

Years ago back in the days of the old AOL bulletin boards, I joined a group of SAHMs...it was a beautiful support group. Years went by and most of us have stayed in touch (like 25-ish years worth). We would arrange regional get-togethers every few years. When hubs had surgery, one of those women, who had grown to be a dear friend, came and sat with me in the hospital (she lived in the same city). We got on the facebook page we have now and had fun. They all were positive I was nuts...and they were right!!!

omg, this made me laugh. I'm still friends with many old AOL boardies, too. I have only met a couple IRL but chat with a few on the phone and try to stay current on social media. Good old AOL ... 

[Koala]

Just as a side note- I was well into my thirties before I realized that I was not at fault for what happened to me.  I always knew I didn't want to be like them, but I also carried the idea that somehow I was different.  That there was something wrong with me, that led them to treat me in such a way.  It's really hard to admit that you were abused as a child.  It's really hard to admit that the mom you were always told was a saint, was in fact, and abuser.  Same from my grandparents.  I always knew my grandmother was a horrible person, but I practically deified my grandfather.  I loved him, so it made it very difficult to admit that he did every bit as much damage as my mother and grandmother.  

I'll tell you something, though- I am feeling better now.  I know the truth.  I can accept that they were violent people, and they would have been violent no matter what.  It really wasn't me.  I was just a kid.

3 minutes ago, Liza said:

@Koala   We are on the same page regarding Lori and the effects abuse had on her.  Interesting that you and I had a very different response :  to end the cycle. 

Yes, from the time I was a child, I knew it was critical to end the cycle.  I can even remember telling them that one day I would.  I would never do what they did.  They laughed at me, but they stopped laughing when they saw that I lived up to that vow.  It was honestly my life's mission- "Be a kind parent".

In the end, they had to live with the shame of what they did.  I refused to carry it for them any longer- it was their burden, not mine.  

They were forced to see that you can raise the sweetest, kindest children, without ever raising your voice or your hand.  And they were forced to see what I suffered because of their abuse.  For years I spared them that knowledge, but because of that, I had to carry it.  And that?  That wasn't fair at all.

 

[Lgirlrocks]

34 minutes ago, polecat said:

Good lord.

Do these people ever consider just TALKING to each other???

If he was concerned about the messages his daughters were getting from their mom's heavy makeup use, then he could have SAID that instead of issuing blanket demands. 

I would have told him my body my choice. Why would he marry someone who wore too much make up for his taste anyways? 

[IntrinsicallyDisordered]

19 minutes ago, Lgirlrocks said:

I would have told him my body my choice. Why would he marry someone who wore too much make up for his taste anyways? 

So he could feel the power and control that comes with getting her to change

@Koala I wish I could like your posts more than once.  

[Liza]

Just one last comment about Lori and her violence towards her children:  Ken could have done something to stop it and he did NOT.  So he is also to blame for allowing all of this to take place.

Maybe I'm not understanding Fundamentalism here, but how could he, in good conscience, allow his infants/toddlers to be beaten.  There is one video where BOTH OF THEM beat on one of their children (a toddler) over dropped raisins for FOUR HOURS.  They did it together.  He may look like some voice of reason by comparsion to her, but when it comes to abusing the kids, if you stand by and let it happen, and if you get involved in it as he did on several occasions, then you are just as guilty.   

And their grown kids?  They have to know about this.  Lori has claimed that they dont remember it, but she has written about it often enough ... so they DO know and yet they let her babysit for them?  It sounds crazy to me.  I wouldn't let  her near my kids with a 10 foot pole ... for what she says to scare them and for beating them ... no.

[polecat]

54 minutes ago, Liza said:

@Koala   We are on the same page regarding Lori and the effects abuse had on her.  Interesting that you and I had a very different response :  to end the cycle.  I guess you have to be in touch with what happened, realize it was wrong and harmful, and decide it ends with you.   Lori, is not in touch with her self, is a Fundamentalist and has used the Bible to make sense of what happened to her and as a guidebook in how to treat others.  Sad that she missed the Jesus part.   I wonder, though, if Lori may just have been hard-wired (by narcissism) to be an abuser.  The understanding today abut NPD is that it is both genetic and learned.  Just a thought.  Narcissist have no empathy so they do not care if they inflict pain on others.  They need to be right ... always ... and in control.  They have little to no ability to self-reflect ... so that would explain her just not 'getting it'.

 

Disclaimer: This is a long post and is not directed towards anyone. It is, however, a sensitive topic for me, and I try to address it when I can to help address the myths surrounding childhood abuse and abuse survivors.

bbm -- to be fair, this is actually the typical response from abuse survivors. Studies bear out that the majority of us never hurt another person, possibly because the second sentence I bolded -- most abuse survivors do not want to revisit that horror on people we love.

Lori Alexander is a fucking monster who made a decision to hurt children and her husband (and now others, too). She may have been spanked as a child, but being victimized is completely different from victimizing other people.

And I completely agree with your thoughts that her narcissism, clinical or not, may well have played a role in her abusive behaviors. Narcissism and other personality disorders are not excuses for abuse, but they do help us better understand what's happening and why.

Quote

 

Recognising the deliberateness of abusers’ behaviour (Conte et al, 1989) is disturbing; it is much more comfortable to believe that abusers and/or their partners are merely repeating what they learnt in childhood. ‘Cycle of abuse’ theories rework old orthodoxies; transforming abusers into victims, and placing mothers back in the collusive frame. Quite how the theory is supposed to explain abuse outside the family (and more children are abused by known adults than family members) has not yet appeared in print.

‘Cycle of abuse’ is based on a psychic determinism: experience A leads to behaviour B with minimal choice/agency in between. Apart from offering abusers carte blanche to avoid responsibility, it makes the thousands of survivors who, as result of their own experiences, choose to never treat children in similar ways invisible, logically impossible. This theory does an outrageous injustice to countless women whose courageous and passionate testimony made sexual abuse in childhood a social issue. It also makes a travesty of support for children, since the aim becomes preventing them ‘repeating the cycle’ rather than enabling them to cope with having been victimised

source

 

4

 

Quote

 

In the 1970s, Widom and her team began retrieving archival records of court-documented cases of abuse to locate 908 abused and neglected children, ages from infancy to 11 years, matching them with a comparison group of children from the same neighborhoods and of the same age, gender, race, and approximate socioeconomic status. They call these children Generation 2 (G2), having gathered extensive information as well on their parents (G1). Some 25 years later, the researchers examined state and federal criminal records for evidence of arrests in the G2 cohort, including arrests for violent crime. Children who had been physically abused were significantly more likely than children from nonviolent families to have been arrested as a juvenile, but not by much—21 percent compared to 14 percent of matched controls.2

By the mid-1990s the G2 participants were on average 29 years old, with children of their own, giving Widom and her team the rare opportunity to study a broad range of outcomes for both groups. After another followup that ended in 2010, when the G2 cohort was on average 51 years old and the G3 offspring were interviewed, the researchers confirmed that they found “little evidence of the intergenerational transmission of physical abuse.”3

 

1

 

The idea of child abuse being intergenerational is so prevalent that you'll find it on virtually every site discussing child abuse and even some regarding IPV. But it's just not borne out by studies, which reveal that while childhood abuse survivors may be somewhat more likely to abuse their kids than others, the vast majority of them are more likely to parent differently than their own parents. iow -- non-abusively.

But that said, it doesn't mean that there are no ill-effects from childhood abuse ever. 

Quote

 

Recent epigenetic findings unmistakably confirm that child sexual abuse has an intergenerational impact through affected gene expressions.

“There can be functionally relevant modifications to the genome,” Dr Guggisberg says.

“Epigenetic pathways affecting childhood development, health and behavioural outcomes can be passed from the mother to the third generation.”

The researcher has found that the neurobiological and neuropsychological impacts of victimisation have been found to be extensive – and even worse when the abuser is a close relative or father of the child.

She says the physical health impact of child sexual abuse can include genito-pelvic pain, cardiovascular diseases, cancer and diabetes.

Mental health impacts can include chronic stress, reduced emotional intelligence, anxiety, depression, suicidal ideation, and unstable relationships with future partners.

Behavioural impacts can include alcohol and other drug problems, sexual behaviour problems, and overeating leading to obesity.

All is not lost though as Dr Guggisberg says that early intervention therapies have the chance of reversing and even mending the health of victims and future generations.

source
 

 

And there's also evidence that kids who are spanked or otherwise physically punished/abused tend to be more violent and aggressive than other kids. 

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There is little research evidence that physical punishment improves children's behavior in the long term.

There is substantial research evidence that physical punishment makes it more, not less, likely that children will be defiant and aggressive in the future. 

There is clear research evidence that physical punishment puts children at risk for negative outcomes, including increased mental health problems.

There is consistent evidence that children who are physically punished are at greater risk of serious injury and physical abuse.

 

 

 

Lori Alexander is an abuser because Lori Alexander likes the power and control she gets from manipulating and hurting other people. Spanking wasn't good or healthy for her -- I'm certainly not arguing that -- but it did not turn her into an abuser. She chose to be one.

For other survivors of childhood abuse, I want to leave you with two wonderful resources: 

http://gretchenschmelzer.com/blog-1/2015/8/11/parents-corner-the-courage-of-parenting-with-a-history-of-trauma

https://acestoohigh.com/

I hope this isn't coming off preachy or as if I'm jumping on anyone. I'm definitely not. As a survivor of childhood abuse, it's a sensitive topic for me. I went through childhood development classes hearing about how I was inevitably going to hurt my children. I heard from friends that I shouldn't even HAVE children. I believe strongly that this is a topic that needs to be discussed and discussed more openly. I wish there was more help for survivors rather than the blanket -- damning and hurtful -- idea that most of us are gonna grow up to abuse people. 

We. Are. Not. 

We are strong, we are powerful, we are legion. And while we weren't protected, that sure as hell doesn't mean we will not protect and advocate and fight for a new generation, which deserves far better than we got.

(all bolding and italics by me)

[AlwaysDiscerning]

Quote

God doesn’t care about us making a name for us, making our own money, and having the admiration of others. He cares that we are obedient to what He has called us to do.

Yet all Lori does all day long is to try to make a name for herself. If she didn't care about doing this, she could have used a pen name for her book, but NO she wants the Lori Alexander name to be a household name that we all recognize like Beth Moore or simply Graham.  And if God doesn't care about us getting admiration for others, I suggest she start allowing negative comments. 

[polecat]

1 hour ago, Koala said:

Just as a side note- I was well into my thirties before I realized that I was not at fault for what happened to me.  I always knew I didn't want to be like them, but I also carried the idea that somehow I was different.  That there was something wrong with me, that led them to treat me in such a way.  It's really hard to admit that you were abused as a child.  It's really hard to admit that the mom you were always told was a saint, was in fact, and abuser.  Same from my grandparents.  I always knew my grandmother was a horrible person, but I practically deified my grandfather.  I loved him, so it made it very difficult to admit that he did every bit as much damage as my mother and grandmother.

<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 

And yes, it's terribly hard to admit. There's so much shame attached and the idea that we're different, we brought it on ourselves. That's the gaslighting, the emotionally abusive part. That's how they protect their abusive choices and their own ego -- by putting the responsibility on our shoulders.

It wasn't your fault, not ever, and I'm so glad you're doing well. 

4 minutes ago, AlwaysDiscerning said:

Yet all Lori does all day long is to try to make a name for herself. If she didn't care about doing this, she could have used a pen name for her book, but NO she wants the Lori Alexander name to be a household name that we all recognize like (Adolf Hitler or Donald Trump).

 

ftfy! 

 

[Emilycharlotte]

Whew. This was the longest I ever went without following the Lori thread and it took me a while to catch up.

First, @EowynW, I'm so sorry about your job. I hope you're bearing up okay--your boss was a cowardly jerk to give you the news that way. 

Regarding Krissy (sp.?)---she was pushing my buttons early on and I had a post mentally composed to tell her that her bragging and focus on material things as markers of a successful life was making me want to gag--but then the whole depression conversation started, and I ended up using the "F You" emoji for the first time. 

When I got to the part about suicide, my head nearly exploded.  I won't bother responding to her idiotic remarks at this point, but as a fellow sufferer of depression and anxiety, I'd like to say many thanks to those of you who did. Your knowledge, eloquence, sensitivity, and passion made her look like the ignorant, hard-hearted twit that she is. 

I often wish there was an emoji that could be used to send a poster a hug, but @feministxtian'S idea also works. Hugs from me to all of you!

Also, @feministxtian, congrats on the job!!! So happy for you!!!!

And Lori's soup looks like crap.

[3splenty]

My husband is a recovering alcoholic.  My chronic illness made him turn to alcohol all the more, as he basically was mom and dad and had to work full-time.  His family thought I was exaggerating or making it all up and belittled both myself (its a little headache) and our kids and his mom encouraged him to drink "just once in awhile, it's her fault, not yours."

I and my kids remain in counseling.  Hubby and I are repairing our relationship.  I'm close to my father-in-law and he was able to help get his family to understand how severe things were.  Hubby, myself, and the kids are all relearning the family thing, trying to be the best parents we can be.  Hubby has been sober for 7 (?) months.

As for Lori...she reminds me of my mother-in-law--whitewashes everything.  EVERYTHING her kids do is just PERFECT, she knows best on every subject, and if you don't agree, it's because you're a bad person and you don't like her.  Just toxic, manipulative, and emotionally draining.  

ETA: My middle daughter saw Lord's soup and said, "Mom, that looks like when a cow coughs up a loogie."  Lord's Loogie Soup.

[delphinium65]

3 minutes ago, 3splenty said:

ETA: My middle daughter saw Lord's soup and said, "Mom, that looks like when a cow coughs up a loogie."  Lord's Loogie Soup.

Next thread title?  

[3splenty]

Just now, delphinium65 said:

Next thread title?  

Lol!  Today's menu:  Loogie Soup and Rotting Salad