JinJer 39: Waiting to Meet Their Baby Daughter

[SilverBeach]

4 hours ago, lumpentheologie said:

There are lots of harmful beliefs outside of fundamentalism, and even outside of religion.  I think it's important to acknowledge that fundamentalism is an especially harmful complex of harmful beliefs, mostly because it really reduces members' ability to leave. It does this through neglecting education so that children are ignorant and lack critical thinking skills, and so they're unable to get a job that could support them on their own. It saddles them with families of their own at the moment they leave their parents' house, so that they never have the freedom to question beliefs on their own. It isolates them from anything that is different. It stunts the development of children and makes it very hard for them to live full lives as adults. 

Fundamentalism is also harmful when, like the Duggars and Bates, they seek to establish a theocracy based on their restrictive religious ideology. This leads to one-issue voting, and people without critical thinking skills following the party line without knowing who they are really voting for. And we end up with a cretin like Trump as president. The harm done extends to society at large, particularly to the vulnerable and marginalized. Fundie political power scares me. As a black person, I don't think many of them have any use for me or voted for Obama. And their stance against anyone not cisgender is appalling. Hence my hatred for fundamentalism. I also hate cults such as the FLDS that victimize women and children, although they are not politically active like the Duggar and Bates type of fundies are. Gilead could happen.

 

[singsingsing]

4 hours ago, justoneoftwo said:

I do think that sometimes we all as humans get this attitude that everyone should believe as we do, and its bad not to.  I just don't completely buy into that (I don't completely not either).  So having beliefs that suck from my point of view, but your not harming your children, thats a huge step and I'm happy when I see that.  I also happen to think that my beliefs are morally right and that thinking people will eventually reach them (even if its over generations) so having critical thought will lead to where I hope these families go.  

If someone else wants to eschew birth control, have two dozen children, never drink alcohol, never dance, never show their collarbone, believe the the earth is 6000 years old, and believe that their husband is their headship, fine. No problem. Go nuts and enjoy yourself! The problem arises when they're trying to force me to eschew birth control, never drink alcohol, be submissive to a man, etc. That's not okay (understatement of the century).

That's the crux of the issue. If they were just choosing these things for themselves, no problem. People live all kinds of lifestyles that I neither understand or desire for myself. But not only are they forcing this on their children, they're actively trying to force it on the rest of society. I'm not at all exaggerating when I say they are quite literally attempting to create a Christian theocracy, and that is a terrifying prospect.

[Jezzable]

12 hours ago, justoneoftwo said:

This is why I never can get on board with the "just as bad" attitude.  Not all sin is equal, and not all less than my ideal beliefs are equal.  Having a job, and an education, and the ability to limit family size is huge! It allows growth and change.  It helps their children to have critical thinking skills (or at least they could).  For me this is a huge step.  This is not just as bad, it has things I don't like and think are harmful, but its not AS bad.

Ok, but even if they adopt the family-limitation change, adding John MacArthur & Calvinism to their list makes it far worse  - especially the kind of doctrinal elitism that comes from Master's Seminary. 

[just_ordinary]

15 hours ago, Jellybean said:

Could God be indifferent to his precious creation? 

I studied Philosophy and took a great deal of classes of Philosophy in the Middle Ages- so my answer is: Absolutely yes! 

Even if we are (supposedly) created in his image and believe we are his biggest creation we still are so far away from him that there isn’t even the simplest  level of understanding possible.

Now, this is clearly just on simple insight in how philosophers took on the challenge to prove the Bible right but staying in the fundamental lines of logic and science (as far as they were then). How did my prof used to say:

„Ahhh The Bible- it was written by simple minded people, they didn’t think about the mortality of pure spirits.“

Still cracks me up every time 

[treehugger]

And, you can still limit family size and be an incredibly patriarchal asshole. Jeremy may be pro-education, for himself. But I am not convinced that he will be for a daughter. Even in conservative Christianity, women are second-place citizens. They may wear jeans and look cute, but JinJer have given me no reason to believe they believe any differently about the roles of a women than the Duggars. Let's be very, very honest here. Jill has more secular education than Jinger. And has shown more ambition, even now. 

Hyper-Calvinists are very serious about women's roles. At home, with the children. Maybe an innocent career as a secretary. That's it. This change is good for Jeremy, that's it. He is not, and will not be becoming more mainstream. 

[VelociRapture]

I tend to believe the second definition listed on Merriam & Webster myself:

 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fundamentalism

I don’t care what the principles are. They could relate to religion or politics or animal rights or environmental protection or healthcare or anything. If you think that your way is the only acceptable way and you’re willing to legislate to force others to abide by it, then you are a fundamentalist to me. *

Jinger can wear as many cute outfits as she likes. They can stop having kids after number one or number twenty-one. They can post all the eyerolling cute crap they want. The fact remains that they’d like nothing more than to legislate their way of thinking onto others and, for that, they remain Fundamentalists in my eyes. 

*To be clear, I don’t think people fighting for their rights or tight to live fall into fundamentalism. So people who are pro LGBTQ rights, are pro choice, etc. aren’t fundamentalists. On the other hand, if there are people out there attempting to legally ban heterosexuality or force every pregnant woman to abort, then that would fall into fundamentalism. 

[finnlassie]

Jinger and Jeremy are certainly not escaping/leaving fundamentalism, but what they are getting out of is the Duggar lifestyle, if that makes sense? The frump, the tater tot casseroles... gah, I have what I wanna say in my mind, but my brain has decided not to convey it tonight.

[VelociRapture]

6 minutes ago, finnlassie said:

Jinger and Jeremy are certainly not escaping/leaving fundamentalism, but what they are getting out of is the Duggar lifestyle, if that makes sense? The frump, the tater tot casseroles... gah, I have what I wanna say in my mind, but my brain has decided not to convey it tonight.

Allow me:

They no longer buy the Duggar brand of toilet paper. They switched to buying a different brand that’s a bit more expensive and has prettier packaging, but they still buy it at the same grocery store called Fundamentalism and the new toilet paper still helps conceal their crap (beliefs.)

[finnlassie]

2 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

Allow me:

They no longer buy the Duggar brand of toilet paper. They switched to buying a different brand that’s a bit more expensive and has prettier packaging, but they still buy it at the same grocery store called Fundamentalism and the new toilet paper still helps conceal their crap (beliefs.)

Yeah. That.

They get to buy the special edition graphic designer toilet papers (these are a thing outside of Finland too, right?) that are probably 5-ply just to appear as smooth as it can be. Too bad smooth shit is still diarrhoea.

Fundamentalism: Women Wear Pants Too Edition.

[meowfundiecatz]

9 hours ago, treehugger said:

Hyper-Calvinists are very serious about women's roles. At home, with the children. Maybe an innocent career as a secretary. That's it. This change is good for Jeremy, that's it. He is not, and will not be becoming more mainstream.  

Because it is a closed group, I can't say too much, but I am in a group* that is run by a woman associated with GCC (MacArthur's church). And it is about women's roles, Biblical womanhood, etc. So yeah, if it isn't too clear yet, GCC/MacArthur/Jeremy Vuolo are ultra-conservative.

And still, yes, JinJer are fundies. Fundies who shop at Brooks Brothers and wear skinny jeans and wedge heels. 

If JinJer move to LA, they could have a new spin-off spin-off called "Real Fundies of LA."

*I am a participant it the group. I do hold to some similar beliefs as this group as I am on many levels a fundamentalist. But I did go to college and would send my children if they so desired. But over time, I have become less mainstream. But this isn't about me. I just wanted to put that out there because I'm not super active on all the threads/I really do like this group.  And obviously I am comfortable with a certain level of snark, probably because I am relatively new to this lifestyle. I also feel that there are a lot of injustices in the conservative/fundamentalist world. Derick is particularly grinding my gears lately. He makes it worse for the rest of us.

The woman who runs it is way more even keeled then say, Lori Alexander. She is very sweet and kind and doesn't put up with abuse, like Lori. She however is not trying to make herself famous or make it about her like Lori, but rather minister to women.

Last thought, and I do apologize if this has already been discussed in this thread, but on the topic of Lori Alexander, she LOVES MacArthur. He is like her favorite ever.

[singsingsing]

3 minutes ago, meowfundiecatz said:

*I am a participant it the group. I do hold to some similar beliefs as this group as I am on many levels a fundamentalist. But I did go to college and would send my children if they so desired. But over time, I have become less mainstream. But this isn't about me. I just wanted to put that out there because I'm not super active on all the threads/I really do like this group.  And obviously I am comfortable with a certain level of snark, probably because I am relatively new to this lifestyle. I also feel that there are a lot of injustices in the conservative/fundamentalist world. Derick is particularly grinding my gears lately. He makes it worse for the rest of us.

I’m wondering if you’d feel up to sharing a bit about what attracted you to that lifestyle - was it a theological conviction, did you marry into it? Do you have any qualms with it? What would you say makes you a fundamentalist and what are some of the way you diverge?

Please don’t feel obligated to answer.  I’m just curious. Part of the reason I’m on FJ is because I once flirted with fundamentalism myself, and I’m very interested in why people join/stay in/leave the lifestyle.

[victoriasponge]

From Grace's Distinctives, I'd say they are quite clearly fundie. And even if other people wouldn't agree, they clearly think that they are fundamentalist and that this is a good thing, therefore I'm willing to call them fundie regardless.

On Biblical literalism:

Spoiler

...absolutely inerrant in the original documents, infallible, and God-breathed. We teach the literal, grammatical-historical interpretation of Scripture which affirms the belief that the opening chapters of Genesis present creation in six literal days (Genesis 1:31; Exodus 31:17). We teach that the Bible constitutes the only infallible rule of faith and practice...

That there is one true interpretation of the Bible (theirs)

Spoiler

We teach that, whereas there may be several applications of any given passage of Scripture, there is but one true interpretation. The meaning of Scripture is to be found as one diligently applies the literal grammatical-historical method of interpretation under the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit

Calvinist

Spoiler

He has graciously chosen from eternity past those whom He would have as His own 

Spoiler

We teach that election is the act of God by which, before the foundation of the world, He chose in Christ those whom He graciously regenerates, saves, and sanctifies... Since sovereign grace includes the means of receiving the gift of salvation as well as the gift itself, sovereign election will result in what God determines. All whom the Father calls to Himself will come in faith, and all who come in faith the Father will receive... We teach that the unmerited favor that God grants to totally depraved sinners is not related to any initiative of their own part or to God’s anticipation of what they might do by their own will, but is solely of His sovereign grace and mercy 

Anti-divorce

Spoiler

We teach that God hates divorce, permitting it only where there has been unrepentant sexual sin (Mal. 2:14–16; Matt. 5:32, 19:9) or desertion by an unbeliever (1 Cor. 7:12–15). We teach that remarriage is permitted to a faithful partner, but only when the divorce was on biblical grounds.

Homosexuality, adultery and fornication are all as bad as bestiality

Spoiler

We teach that any form of sexual immorality, such as adultery, fornication, homosexuality, bisexual conduct, bestiality, incest, pedophilia, pornography, any attempt to change one’s sex or disagreement with one’s biological sex, is sinful and offensive to God

Homosexuals choose to be sinners

Spoiler

We teach that homosexuality, in particular, is subject to God’s wrath of abandonment, is a matter of choice and not inherited status, and epitomizes man’s ungrateful rebellion against God

But that you should *ahem* love them anyway

Spoiler

We teach that every person must be afforded compassion, love, kindness, respect, and dignity. Hateful and harassing behavior or attitudes directed toward any individual are to be repudiated and are not in accord with Scripture or the doctrines of the church.

Shouting the Bible at them isn't hateful though, even when very, very rude, in fact it's loving y'all.

Spoiler

We teach that the faithful proclamation of the Scripture, including the call to repentance, does not constitute hate speech, or hateful and harassing behavior, but is instead a fundamental part of the church’s loving mission to the world

Women are (spiritually) equal but (realistically) inferior

Spoiler

Eve was equal to Adam, but she was given the role and duty of submitting to him. Although the word “helper” carries very positive connotations—even being used of God Himself as the helper of Israel (Deut. 33:7; Ps. 33:20)—it still describes someone in a relationship of service to another. The responsibility of wives to submit to their husbands, then, was part of the plan from creation, even before the curse.

The reason women don't like this anymore was a God-given side-effect of the Fall, he wanted us all to hate being inferior.

Spoiler

Thus, the curse in Genesis 3:16 refers to a new desire on the part of the woman to exercise control over her husband—but he will in fact oppressively rule and exert authority over her. The result of the Fall on marriage through history has been an ongoing struggle between the sexes, with women seeking control and men seeking dominance.

You should evangelise to children but make sure they know they aren't saved and are depraved

Spoiler

Rather than getting their children to pray “the sinner’s prayer” or enticing them into a superficial response, parents must faithfully, patiently, and thoroughly teach them the gospel and diligently pray for their salvation, always bearing in mind that God is the One who saves... It is the role of the Holy Spirit—not the parent—to give assurance of salvation (Rom. 8:15–16). Too many people whose hearts are utterly cold to the things of the Lord believe they are going to heaven simply because they responded positively as children to an evangelistic invitation.

Catholics are eeeeeevil

Spoiler

To put it simply, because the Roman Catholic Church has refused to submit itself to the authority of God’s Word and to embrace the gospel of justification taught in Scripture, it has set itself apart from the true body of Christ. It is a false and deceptive form of Christianity.

There is much, much more. But I'm already bored reading through all this.

But hey ho. Now if they can explain why, if it's God who chooses who to save, they won't stop bleating on at me about how I'm wrong and have I heard of Jesus, that'd be grand. Obviously God didn't love me as much as some of his other creation (despite them also being depraved sinners and we both looking like the Big G) and therefore it's a wasted effort until He decides that it's worth it.

Anyway, my overall takeaway is that they think they are fundie. Therefore they are fundie. I mean, they see it as a literal interpretation of the Bible.

And that Jeremy's beliefs are basically identical to Derick's.

edit: also we now will basically have a man far more charismatic than Derick, with the same shitty belief system, literally trained to push for real change for them and to convert more people to their shitty beliefs. I don’t give a toss if he’s willing to send a daughter to school when he’s willing to do all that. 

[meowfundiecatz]

@singsingsing I don't mind sharing. So I grew up with a very vague idea of God in a very liberal religious system. Around the time of college, I became a born-again Christian and got involved with a specific college group. While the group does not hold to a specific denomination, the people who were running in in my area were very much Reformed Christians. Over my time with them, I listened to a LOT of Mark Driscoll, John Piper, R.C. Sproul, and the like. My beliefs became more and more conservative. However, I was in college, so I couldn't at the time reconcile things like Vision Forum (very Reformed/Calvinist) with attending university. I distinctly remember arguing TULIP with my roommate, who at the time was more into IHOP/Bethel/NAR belief-wise. 

A quick tangent: I began babysitting for a pastor and his wife who I believe signed me up for VF stuff (mailing lists, stuff like that). That was my first real look at what a home that holds to standards that VF had would look like, and to be honest, I wasn't against it. But this couple had a great marriage.

I think originally the mainstream church was attractive and fit within my scope of God, so I stuck around there. I would say that many people I know are fundamentalists, but hide under the mask of being Evangelical. It's kind of a game of semantics.

Things that make us fundamentalists: We take the Bible literally, we hold to a Creationist view (although my husband and I are divided on what that exactly means), we read/listen to very conservative writers and we do listen to Vision Forum stuff still, we don't use birth control, we do hold to a husband-lead marriage, I practice modesty, we do try to be careful in our media consumption, we hold to very conservative beliefs in regards to child training/raising, I consult my husband on stuff often, I have very long hair and would not cut it to a length my husband didn't like, we have a home business, we are in favor of home school.

Things that some fundamentalists would disagree with us on: We love sports, we listen to music that isn't just hymns (my husband likes hard Christian rock like Red), my husband doesn't monitor my internet usage/we don't have filters on our computers, we have TV and like it, we are not Republican, we are in favor of legalizing pot, we are okay with alcohol and will someday brew our own, we do not believe that sexual abuse is a woman's fault, we don't care/lobby against gay marriage, we do not condone child training that is abusive, we do not like MLMs, I went to a 4 year public university and worked in public schools, we aren't totally against public schooling and don't buy into what the media says about the subject.

So I asked my husband (lol) and this is what he said. Basically we are very conservative, but we believe each person has the right to life their life, and we give grace to the differences we hold. We have friends who have drastically different beliefs so we try IRL to not play a label game.

Politically we are conservative, capitalistic, libertarians. NOT like the Nauglers. My husband loves Ron Swanson and relates to him on many levels. (We watch shows like Parks and Rec and are okay with that).

I have qualms with the overly political/U.S.-centric/Republican agenda many fundies hold to. I dislike grifiting. I really feel like people like Derick Dillard are hurting others and hindering the gospel. I think that many girls are being held back by their overly-protective dads and could be doing greater things for the Lord than living at home. I also have big issues with the treatment of people with mental illnesses in the church. And I don't love CCM, not because it has a back beat, but because it is poor quality music.

To end on a light note, my husband just found a deck of playing cards that have pictures of popular CCM artists from like 2001. The cards are going in the trash (not because they are cards but because they are ridiculous).

 

 

[Satan'sFortress]

Late to the discussion now, but the term "militant heterosexual agenda" makes me giggle (and pisses me off).  it just conjures up such an image!

[JoiseyGoil]

Wasn’t Jermey basically raised by these beliefs, especially since his parents converted from Catholicisim? The only difference is that he was allowed to go through a “rebellious” phase, but for some reason he came back to these same beliefs. At least his siblings don’t appear to believe the same things, so maybe there’s hope that’s Jeremy’s kids will rebel?

[VelociRapture]

22 minutes ago, JoiseyGoil said:

Wasn’t Jermey basically raised by these beliefs, especially since his parents converted from Catholicisim? The only difference is that he was allowed to go through a “rebellious” phase, but for some reason he came back to these same beliefs. At least his siblings don’t appear to believe the same things, so maybe there’s hope that’s Jeremy’s kids will rebel?

I believe his grandparents converted from Catholicism, not his parents. Either way, Jeremy and his siblings do appear to have had a more conservative upbringing and I believe he was raised with most, if not all, of the beliefs he currently holds.

[fundiesfordays]

I still have hope that Jinger will truly break free. I am one who has given her a pass, knowing she likely still holds toxic beliefs. I honestly pity her.  She was raised in a cult. She wasn't given the choice to think critically or research ideas and philosophies, and she didn't know she could do those things. She was raised to believe that as a woman, thinking isn't required or valuable. She was sheltered from anything that could bring forth any uncertainty. I'm sure she didn't know growing up that there are Christians that do think differently than the way she was raised. She was taught that real Christians live just as she was raised - I was too, so I can empathize.

Jeremy and his beliefs are toxic, so she still hears the same ideas she heard before. She has, however, been exposed to Christians that don't adhere to the exact same rules that she had before. Yes, changing from skirts to pants isn't a theological breakthrough. For her, though, it's opening her mind to the idea that what she was taught isn't the only way to be a Christian.

Depending on your definition of fundie, I grew up fundie-lite. It took me years to learn what I could learn, if that makes sense. I cringe at some of the things I have said and believed when I was still surrounded by that toxic culture. I didn't seek out changing my view of the world; it happened naturally as life brought new challenges. Jinger is still young and is just now learning who she is. She has plenty of time to grow. She still has a chance. Instant change doesn't happen when you are brainwashed for 20 years. She's only been out of TTH for a short while. She is the farthest of her siblings from the compound as that gives her opportunities the rest don't have yet. She may not change at all, but I would still like to believe it is possible. We need something to hope for in such uncertain times...

In other news, Jinger has always looked like Michelle but pregnant Jinger is a Michelle clone!

[SassyPants]

14 hours ago, meowfundiecatz said:

@singsingsing I don't mind sharing. So I grew up with a very vague idea of God in a very liberal religious system. Around the time of college, I became a born-again Christian and got involved with a specific college group. While the group does not hold to a specific denomination, the people who were running in in my area were very much Reformed Christians. Over my time with them, I listened to a LOT of Mark Driscoll, John Piper, R.C. Sproul, and the like. My beliefs became more and more conservative. However, I was in college, so I couldn't at the time reconcile things like Vision Forum (very Reformed/Calvinist) with attending university. I distinctly remember arguing TULIP with my roommate, who at the time was more into IHOP/Bethel/NAR belief-wise. 

A quick tangent: I began babysitting for a pastor and his wife who I believe signed me up for VF stuff (mailing lists, stuff like that). That was my first real look at what a home that holds to standards that VF had would look like, and to be honest, I wasn't against it. But this couple had a great marriage.

I think originally the mainstream church was attractive and fit within my scope of God, so I stuck around there. I would say that many people I know are fundamentalists, but hide under the mask of being Evangelical. It's kind of a game of semantics.

Things that make us fundamentalists: We take the Bible literally, we hold to a Creationist view (although my husband and I are divided on what that exactly means), we read/listen to very conservative writers and we do listen to Vision Forum stuff still, we don't use birth control, we do hold to a husband-lead marriage, I practice modesty, we do try to be careful in our media consumption, we hold to very conservative beliefs in regards to child training/raising, I consult my husband on stuff often, I have very long hair and would not cut it to a length my husband didn't like, we have a home business, we are in favor of home school.

Things that some fundamentalists would disagree with us on: We love sports, we listen to music that isn't just hymns (my husband likes hard Christian rock like Red), my husband doesn't monitor my internet usage/we don't have filters on our computers, we have TV and like it, we are not Republican, we are in favor of legalizing pot, we are okay with alcohol and will someday brew our own, we do not believe that sexual abuse is a woman's fault, we don't care/lobby against gay marriage, we do not condone child training that is abusive, we do not like MLMs, I went to a 4 year public university and worked in public schools, we aren't totally against public schooling and don't buy into what the media says about the subject.

So I asked my husband (lol) and this is what he said. Basically we are very conservative, but we believe each person has the right to life their life, and we give grace to the differences we hold. We have friends who have drastically different beliefs so we try IRL to not play a label game.

Politically we are conservative, capitalistic, libertarians. NOT like the Nauglers. My husband loves Ron Swanson and relates to him on many levels. (We watch shows like Parks and Rec and are okay with that).

I have qualms with the overly political/U.S.-centric/Republican agenda many fundies hold to. I dislike grifiting. I really feel like people like Derick Dillard are hurting others and hindering the gospel. I think that many girls are being held back by their overly-protective dads and could be doing greater things for the Lord than living at home. I also have big issues with the treatment of people with mental illnesses in the church. And I don't love CCM, not because it has a back beat, but because it is poor quality music.

To end on a light note, my husband just found a deck of playing cards that have pictures of popular CCM artists from like 2001. The cards are going in the trash (not because they are cards but because they are ridiculous).

 

 

Are you anti birth control?

[sansan]

On 5/20/2018 at 7:56 PM, TatiFish9 said:

struggle with understanding why any person would vote and continue to support Trump. Just thinking about it takes me to a dark and moody place. It's not about political affiliation, either. For me, it's about a general respect for humanity and the country .

Does Deplorables ring a bell?  Yes, we all should have a choice and feel good about it.

[2manyKidzzz]

On 5/22/2018 at 5:00 AM, just_ordinary said:

I studied Philosophy and took a great deal of classes of Philosophy in the Middle Ages- so my answer is: Absolutely yes! 

Even if we are (supposedly) created in his image and believe we are his biggest creation we still are so far away from him that there isn’t even the simplest  level of understanding possible.

Now, this is clearly just on simple insight in how philosophers took on the challenge to prove the Bible right but staying in the fundamental lines of logic and science (as far as they were then). How did my prof used to say:

„Ahhh The Bible- it was written by simple minded people, they didn’t think about the mortality of pure spirits.“

Still cracks me up every time 

This is so interesting. Do you know of “A Course in Miracles”? That is a central point made there. Do you have any more insight you learned about this, that God is unaware of us? It really is fascinating and I haven’t seen it mentioned other than ACIM.

[lumpentheologie]

A lot of you are arguing that biblical literalism/holding that one's beliefs are the only correct beliefs is the core of fundamentalism. I consider those two beliefs to be the dividing line between conservative and mainstream Christianity. What do you consider to be conservative Christian, then?  

I think of fundamentalists as being aggressively separatist from mainstream society, usually through isolation but sometimes through active attempts to destroy it.   So while Cousin Amy may very well believe the Bible is literally true and that people who don't have a personal relationship with Jesus are going to hell, that wouldn't make her a fundamentalist. The rest of the Duggars are doing something different than Cousin Amy, and I don't think I have a very good way of defining it, but for me it's that difference that makes them fundies. 

[Rachel333]

4 minutes ago, lumpentheologie said:

A lot of you are arguing that biblical literalism/holding that one's beliefs are the only correct beliefs is the core of fundamentalism. I consider those two beliefs to be the dividing line between conservative and mainstream Christianity. What do you consider to be conservative Christian, then? 

See, and to further confuse things, I think that believing that Christianity is the only correct belief is usually part of mainstream Christianity.  It's a basic tenet of the Bible and while there are liberal Christian groups who might not believe that they really aren't mainstream within Christianity yet. I guess it depends on what beliefs you're talking about, though; fundamentalists do tend to believe that not only is Christianity the only correct religion, the way they're doing Christianity is the only correct way as well.

[meowfundiecatz]

@SassyPants I wouldn't say I am anti-birth control. I don't use it and I wouldn't advise my friends to use (chemical) birth control methods.

I understand that it is a sensitive topic, so I generally only discuss it IRL with people I know well.

[SilverBeach]

On 5/22/2018 at 3:23 PM, finnlassie said:

They get to buy the special edition graphic designer toilet papers 

I need this. Northern made flowered rolls in colors back in the late seventies. I got the gray to go with my gray, black and red bathroom. Yes,I like to coordinate, LOL. Please post pics.

[SilverBeach]

9 hours ago, Rachel333 said:

I think that believing that Christianity is the only correct belief is usually part of mainstream Christianity.

I'm such a bad Christian, I don't believe this at all. My mainstream denomination might, but I don't agree with several of their tenets. I briefly attended a UU congregation, should probably go back.