JinJer 39: Waiting to Meet Their Baby Daughter

[louisa05]

10 minutes ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

I live in a metropolitan area of almost three million people, in a city of more than 300,000. It's a HUGE thing here.

Just found the statistic online that in Douglas County, NE (our largest metro area), 46.8% of the population as of 2010 identified as "none" for religious affiliation. Not the majority but much larger percentage than people normally assume about any part of the Midwest. We live about ten minutes outside of Douglas County. 

So you are obviously in a very different part of the Midwest. It is also known that Nebraskans are more reticent about most things than people in a lot of other places. It's the reason we kind of mocked the state tourism's recent "Nebraska Nice" slogan. We all know that we aren't necessarily being nice, we just don't want to talk about it, whatever it may be. 

 

[gameofunbeknowns]

Also, while I feel that I’ve been an Athiest my entire life, I’ve only been vocal about it for 11 years. Both my parents, one of whom I highly suspect is an Athiest themself, still insist it’s a phase.

It’s maddening.

[Pecansforeveryone]

Many evangelicals give patronizing, glad-handling clap trap of, "it's ok to have doubts." Oh gosh, thanks for your blessing, your majesty. However, the possibility of following those doubts into unbelief is never permissible. A good example is on Jeremy's Instagram. He posted a picture of, "The Faith of Christopher Hitchens". There's an article in The Atlantic, "Betraying the Faith of Christopher Hitchens." by David Crum, exposing how intellectually dishonest and morally cowardly the book is. I agree, especially since Christopher isn't here to defend himself. If Jeremy really wanted to challenge himself, he would read, "God is not Great" by Christopher Hitchens. He doesn't, so we have that very disingenuous post on Instagram. 

[KelseyAnn]

2 hours ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

I didn't ask which was harder to be, I asked if it was harder coming out as gay or atheist.

The answer to both is gay. Honestly, why are we having this conversation?

[Seculardaisy]

2 hours ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

LOL - I live in the MidWest too, and religion is FREQUENTLY a topic of conversation, mainly because so MANY people here are Catholic that when someone doesn't show up at church for fish fries or "community" barbecues or church-sponsored festivals or send their kids to the neighborhood/parish school - you get Questions. (Capitalized on purpose.)

 

 

Agree. I’m in Michigan and the vast majority of people I interact with in my area are Catholics. The city I live in has an insane amount of Catholic Churches. It’s a big deal here. There are also a lot of Polish Catholics in my city. My own husband is from a Polish Catholic family. We are the only Atheists in our family (openly at least.) We definitely get a lot of open judgment lobbed at us from our families.

I don’t live in a small town or rural area.

[punkiepie]

18 minutes ago, KelseyAnn said:

The answer to both is gay. Honestly, why are we having this conversation?

I'd say that as for our society in general, yes, the answer is most likely gay.  But for some people, I'd imagine it would be just as hard to come out to certain loved ones as an atheist.  I know my mom would much rather prefer me to be gay than an atheist, because then at least there was a good chance I would still be going to Heaven.  

[gameofunbeknowns]

1 minute ago, punkiepie said:

I'd say that as for our society in general, yes, the answer is most likely gay.  But for some people, I'd imagine it would be just as hard to come out to certain loved ones as an atheist.  I know my mom would much rather prefer me to be gay than an atheist, because then at least there was a good chance I would still be going to Heaven.  

Exactly. The Christians I’m close to are devastated I won’t be in the afterlife with them.

[HereticHick]

One area where people are still extremely reticent to label themselves with the "A Word" is American Politics.

Putting on my Congressional history headgear here: In the US Congress, we've got gays, we got a bisexual, we've got Muslims, Buddhists--but almost no one among the 12,000 humans who have served in Congress has been willing to openly describe themselves as "atheist."

We've have one past Member, and no current Members, who are willing to use the word "atheist." A handful of others skate around it a bit with words like "humanist" or "nontheist" or "unaffiliated" or refuse to answer the question.  

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/no-atheists-in-congress_us_586c074ae4b0de3a08f9d487

[neurogirl]

This may be too pessimistic and too BEC, but I hope that Jeremy would publicly wonder about the baby's looks if he knew he were having a boy... (maybe not that he has to wonder about the baby's looks, but I just can't imagine him posting the same thing about what "my son will look like" and not wanting his son to look at all like him.)

Maybe I'm just being a grumpy gills. It was a hilarious photo. 

[gameofunbeknowns]

18 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

One area where people are still extremely reticent to label themselves with the "A Word" is American Politics.

Putting on my Congressional history headgear here: In the US Congress, we've got gays, we got a bisexual, we've got Muslims, Buddhists--but almost no one among the 12,000 humans who have served in Congress has been willing to openly describe themselves as "atheist."

We've have one past Member, and no current Members, who are willing to use the word "atheist." A handful of others skate around it a bit with words like "humanist" or "nontheist" or "unaffiliated" or refuse to answer the question.  

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/no-atheists-in-congress_us_586c074ae4b0de3a08f9d487

Although I wish they’d narrow the definition of Athiest to someone who doesn’t believe in the existence of intervening deities, especially in the political context, since it’s well known that we’ve had plenty of Deists in office. Most notably a few Deist Presidents (Jefferson, probably Grant).  I’m also of the opinion that given a different time and political climate they’d identify as Atheist.

[SapphireSlytherin]

1 hour ago, KelseyAnn said:

The answer to both is gay. Honestly, why are we having this conversation?

Because it's important. Because for some it might be atheist, and for others it might be gay, and for others it might be a tie.

[Pecansforeveryone]

43 minutes ago, gameofunbeknowns said:

Although I wish they’d narrow the definition of Athiest to someone who doesn’t believe in the existence of intervening deities, especially in the political context, since it’s well known that we’ve had plenty of Deists in office. Most notably a few Deist Presidents (Jefferson, probably Grant).  I’m also of the opinion that given a different time and political climate they’d identify as Atheist.

I might also add John Adams to that list. Penn Jillette, has said that in times past, he would be considered a deist. The vocabulary of "atheist" wasn't used all that much in colonial times. (Although, I have heard Alexandar Hamilton called Thomas Jefferson an atheist at the height of their political rivalry.) Interestingly, neither was "born again" and accepting "Christ as your personal savior."   That came into popularity during the tent revivals of the 1950s. 

[MsSaylor]

Im in Nebrasksa too and my experience is a lot like @louisa05. I was explicitly taught that it is rude to ask people, especially people you dont know about religion or politics. I have never, in 32 years been outright asked my religion or where I go to church, definitely not if Im saved.  When religion does come up its mostly general conversation about theology or the Bible. That said I do think there is an assumption by most people that most others identify as some kind of Christian.  This might be different for POC in my area, that would not surprise me. Most people I know did grow up going to church though, mostly mainstresm Protestant. I was raised going to an ELCA Lutheran church and have identified as Atheist since I was 15. I have never considered “coming out as atheist” to anyone. The only people who explicitly know this are very close family and friends. I think if I felt the need to announce this to coworkers it would be seen as very odd. But if I did talk openly about it I think there would be some judgement but nothing that would affect the work environment much. The whole thing is really a non issue in my life so I would never think to liken it to something like coming out as being gay/trans etc.  Even with my family, like my grandparents dont like that I dont go to church but...its just not talked about. My grandma has always voted Republican and used Crest toothpaste, while my grandpa votes Democrat and uses Colgate. This is the way it is and never shall it be discussed.

[Letizia]

4 hours ago, punkiepie said:

I'd say that as for our society in general, yes, the answer is most likely gay.  But for some people, I'd imagine it would be just as hard to come out to certain loved ones as an atheist.  I know my mom would much rather prefer me to be gay than an atheist, because then at least there was a good chance I would still be going to Heaven.  

My best friend is a southern gay atheist from a non-church going except Christmas and Easter family. Her mom doesn’t give a damn that she is a lesbian but oddly she does care that she is openly an atheist as she thinks that increases the chance of the inexplicably dreaded yankee in-laws. Coming out as an atheist came before coming out as a lesbian and the only thing that changed was it went from, “Don’t tell people or you will never find a southern husband” to “Don’t tell people or you’ll never find a southern wife.” It gets extra illogical because the woman who fears the atheists from the north has been happily married to an atheist from Michigan for 33 years. She also adores her in-laws. Who knows just what she is so afraid of or why but the woman literally scours Match for Christian lesbians then sends the links to my friend. 

[llg1234]

Lil' Cantaloupe Vuolo is getting closer

 

[Bad Wolf]

The last few weeks go so slowly IME.

[HurricaneBells]

13 hours ago, fundiesfordays said:

Being in the American South, most people around me are very religious and I am sure I would be ostracized by my family and coworkers if I expressed it.

 

Well... thats what we are here for *hugs*

[Kittikatz]

As far as whether it's easier to come out as gay or atheist - both comings out could be exceptionally challenging or no big deal. It would depend on what the people in your life thought about each and what creed of religion (if any) they followed. In my former group a lot of people would openly admit to doubting the existence of a god, but they would never accept anyone who deviated (openly at least - there were plenty of supposedly straight people sneaking and creeping in the closet) from the model of straight, monogamous and married. That said, my old group is more about how adherents lived/complied with social norms than any kind of personal relationship with god.

I tend to think that the ability or need to have a deep religious belief is based on something biological. I have never believed - some of my earliest memories are of being read or told religious stories and being frustrated because they didn't make sense. I was physically punished for pointing out holes in the stories and asking questions about the why of religious practices. Religion just never meshed with how my brain works. I learned to STFU and stay low while I spent a good amount of time in my childhood/teen years trying desperately to believe in something/anything. I prayed, and spent hours reading the Torah and Talmud, and even wandered through the Norse/Greek mythology, the NT, Koran, the  Pali Canon, Mahayana Sutras and Book of Mormon, and it just made less and less sense to me as I went along. So I can certainly quote scripture, but I am unable to believe in a God or Gods featured in those books. In a way it's too bad, because large chunks of my life would have practically and emotionally speaking a whole lot easier if I believed.

[VeryNikeSeamstress]

I'm more agnostic than atheist, but this conversation is making me want a t-shirt that says Gaytheist in big sparkly letters.

[PainfullyAware]

12 hours ago, MsSaylor said:

 

Im in Nebrasksa too and my experience is a lot like @louisa05. I was explicitly taught that it is rude to ask people, especially people you dont know about religion or politics. I have never, in 32 years been outright asked my religion or where I go to church, definitely not if Im saved.

 

This has been my experience living in southern Ontario. In general the assumption though is that you would identify as agnostic, atheist, "spiritual but not religious" or non-religious/unaffiliated. I have no friends who regularly go to a religious institution, and few who overtly would say they believe in God. The background of most are Protestant but with all religious backgrounds mixed in. It's considered very pesonal. There's definitely no 'coming out' on religious topics.

[HarleyQuinn]

18 hours ago, neurogirl said:

This may be too pessimistic and too BEC, but I hope that Jeremy would publicly wonder about the baby's looks if he knew he were having a boy... (maybe not that he has to wonder about the baby's looks, but I just can't imagine him posting the same thing about what "my son will look like" and not wanting his son to look at all like him.)

Maybe I'm just being a grumpy gills. It was a hilarious photo. 

I think you're right. He might have made this joke had he been having a son, but I doubt it. 

[Frumper]

20 hours ago, louisa05 said:

I have to say this, though: Do you all really equate eating at fish fries as being religious?

It's not religious in the sense of being a worship service, but around here fish fries are religious fundraisers.  So people who go are giving money to the church/parish/school and yes, I definitely consider that to be religious.

I live in a suburb of a city of about 300,000 so not a small town here either.  Like I said, the assumption of universal Catholiocism in these parts doesn't bother me because no one means any harm by it, but I'd far rather someone openly talk with me about my religious background or beliefs rather than "politely" stay silent and assume I'm something I'm not.

[Shadoewolf]

I live in SE Michigan too and it's largely Catholic or Muslim with Baptist churches coming in 3rd for ones I drive by.  I'm spiritual to a point, lean towards Pagan and keep copies of  various religious books all around, because we fear what we do not understand. It's no big deal here, neighbors and strangers don't ask/don't care and it's a non-issue. But wow living in small town Arkansas, everyone asked and Oldest was harassed endlessly for being Pagan. I do sometimes think it's a regional thing. 

[Scrabblemaster]

I only discuss religion with family and friends. My family is catholic, some family members really practice their religion with weekly church masses and other activities with their church, two of my aunts so so, and some of my cousins were altar boys. My parents only attend church on Christmas, Easter, special occasions like baptisms, First communions of family members, funerals and so on. I don't know about my brother, we talk about other things to be honest. The whole family of Mr. S. are atheists. Like I wrote before me and Mr. S. go to our local protestant church on a regular basis. Nearly all our friends are atheists. I can discuss religion with my friends and my family, and we mostly disagree about certain issues, well sometimes we disagree about every point we discuss when we talk about religion. And that is okay for everyone. Well, maybe not for everyone, because I don't know what the other ones think about the fact that we disagree, but it is okay for me to disagree  with these people and be friends with them. But I would never talk about religion with my coworkers or employees. Or with my clients. Sometimes the subject comes up with my clients, but that is rarely the case. It's a personal topic. 

[VelociRapture]

5 hours ago, Frumper said:

It's not religious in the sense of being a worship service, but around here fish fries are religious fundraisers.  So people who go are giving money to the church/parish/school and yes, I definitely consider that to be religious.

I live in a suburb of a city of about 300,000 so not a small town here either.  Like I said, the assumption of universal Catholiocism in these parts doesn't bother me because no one means any harm by it, but I'd far rather someone openly talk with me about my religious background or beliefs rather than "politely" stay silent and assume I'm something I'm not.

Churches all over have fundraiser type events, but attending them really means nothing about a person’s beliefs. The Methodist Church my Uncle’s family attends hosts a Blueberry festival every summer. My immediate family are either Catholics, Episcopalians, or some form of unaffiliated/non-religious, yet we all attend their Blueberry Festival each year because they have ridiculously good blueberry pies for sale. We’ve also attended an Apple festival at an Episcopal Church (not the one my family members attend) because, again, they have fantastic pies for sale and we just really like eating. 

 As I said in an earlier post, I’m in New England and we tend not to bug each other much about religion so maybe that’s playing a role here - but I honestly don’t jump to conclusions about religious beliefs just because someone chooses to attend an event like that at a particular place of worship.