Josh, Anna and the Ms 16: The sins of our fathers

[JenniferJuniper]

Joshua, Joshua, Joshua!  (stomping feet)

When does Derick get to sue someone?  So unfair!

[ophelia]

I love the name Joshua and the Dolly Parton song. Smuggar won't change that!

[VelociRapture]

11 hours ago, Ivycoveredtower said:

It happened when he was a juvenile but wasn't it that they didn't go to the police till after he was 18 which is why the police were able to release them to the media because they were not sealed. I don't think he has a case.  didn't the police have to release them by law because of the freedom of information act or some such. 

Yes. The Police weren’t informed by an unknown third party about the allegations until December 2006 when he was already 18. So the records were not sealed because he was a legal adult at the time the reports were made. That meant the reports were eligible for release when InTouch was tipped off and filed the FOIA request. 

That said, I believe other posters have stated that Arkansas’ FOIA isn’t well written and doesn’t provide adequate protection to victims. I believe there is a state statute that was written to help fix that and (if I remember right) according to that statute no identifying information can be released unredacted. The Duggar reports had identifying information in it making it fairly easy to figure out which victims were relatives. Joy in particular had no chance of not being identified since the person redacting the Washington County report left in her age at the time of the assault. Pairing the information from that report with the statement given by that victim in the Springdale report made it ridiculously easy to identify Joy. 

Personally, I do think the Duggar sisters had every right to be pissed off. They were outed nationally without their consent as sexual assault victims and had to relive the entire experience on a national level. That’s not ok, regardless of how famous they may be and I do have some sympathy for them. Josh, on the other hand, gets no sympathy from me. I haven’t looked at the documents yet and haven’t seen any explanations given from our legal minds, but I don’t see how he could possibly have a case. As far as I know the law is supposed to protect the victims, not the perpetrator. 

[viii]

Thanks for the replies! I'm not American so I don't always know how your laws work. 

If anyone should be suing, it should be Jill, Jessa, Jinger, and Joy, but that would go against their "we forgave" hill they've chosen to die on. 

[tabitha2]

They were made to relive The Whole agonizing  story before millions of people without their consent once.  Even if they privately despise Josh and their husbands want to kill him  getting involved with lawsuits would just be hurting them all over again only they have their own families now to drag into it.

 

[VelociRapture]

32 minutes ago, viii said:

Thanks for the replies! I'm not American so I don't always know how your laws work. 

If anyone should be suing, it should be Jill, Jessa, Jinger, and Joy, but that would go against their "we forgave" hill they've chosen to die on. 

They did file a lawsuit together back in May 2017, right before Joy got married. I believe the lawsuit was dismissed or they dropped it voluntarily relatively recently. I think they had every right to go after the people responsible for releasing such badly redacted documents, but they definitely overreached on some of the defendants. InTouch, for example, appears to have done everything legally. Once the reports were released they were considered public information and they had the legal right to publish them. Ethically, I think it was the wrong choice simply because they helped revictimize the four sisters on a national level. 

I don’t think any of them are at a place where they’d consider suing Church members or family members though. I think Josh absolutely would deserve it and that their parents have a lot to answer for as well... but like @tabitha2said, it would likely just end up hurting the entire family. The sisters would have to be willing to not only file against their parents and brother, but shine a national spotlight on the family dysfunction and do so without any guarantee of having anything positive result from it all. As far as I can tell, all of the sisters appear to love their family and I just don’t think they’d be willing to put themselves or anyone else through that right now. 

[Georgiana]

23 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

They did file a lawsuit together back in May 2017, right before Joy got married. I believe the lawsuit was dismissed or they dropped it voluntarily relatively recently. I think they had every right to go after the people responsible for releasing such badly redacted documents, but they definitely overreached on some of the defendants. InTouch, for example, appears to have done everything legally. Once the reports were released they were considered public information and they had the legal right to publish them. Ethically, I think it was the wrong choice simply because they helped revictimize the four sisters on a national level. 

I don’t think any of them are at a place where they’d consider suing Church members or family members though. I think Josh absolutely would deserve it and that their parents have a lot to answer for as well... but like @tabitha2said, it would likely just end up hurting the entire family. The sisters would have to be willing to not only file against their parents and brother, but shine a national spotlight on the family dysfunction and do so without any guarantee of having anything positive result from it all. As far as I can tell, all of the sisters appear to love their family and I just don’t think they’d be willing to put themselves or anyone else through that right now. 

I have to say, I do sometimes wonder if Derick's recent behavior was triggered in part by Jill finally having a breakdown and admitting how messed up she is by all of this.  Poor girl kept sweet FOR YEARS, publicly forgave her brother, and went through so much shit based on the PROMISE that God would see her and bless her.  

But those blessings never came.  Her dream life (and possible unconscious attempt to escape from Duggardom) to become a missionary is dead in the water because her parents didn't prepare her for the real world.  Her dream of easy home births and a big family is probably never going to materialize.  Her dream of an easy marriage to a good provider didn't pan out, because WHATEVER you believe about the state of Jill+Derick, he's putting her firmly back in the lean lifestyle she experienced as a child...the lifestyle that found her locking herself in the bathroom to get enough food.  

It was all for nothing.

And I wonder if she's starting to hit that point.  There's GOT to be a LOT of anger there.  I return, as almost always, to Langston Hughes' Harlem, which I always find to be an incredible insight into the human condition, especially with 2nd Gen fundies, who have SO MANY dreams denied:

What happens to a dream deferred?

Does it dry up
Like a raisin in the sun?
Or fester like a sore--
And then run?
Does it stink like rotten meat?
Or crust and sugar over--
like a syrupy sweet?

Maybe it just sags
like a heavy load.

 

Or does it explode?

[Million Children For Jesus]

I don’t think Derick is reacting to Jill’s breakdown, because I don’t think she’s had it yet. I don’t think she is receiving any care or self-care on Derick’s time. If anything, he takes all of the emotional space and she has to diffuse the Derick situation regularly. The guy seems mad all of the time. That has to be a full-time job for her.

[SamuraiKatz]

Josh filed another lawsuit against the city of Springdale and Washington county. I live in the county. I hope this suit is thrown out.

If Josh wants to collect tax payer money, there is ARkids, SNAP, and WIC for the kiddos. Anna and Josh can re take their GED courses to update their academics so they can take college classes. I am sure they will be eligable for PELL grants and student loans.

http://www.nwahomepage.com/news/josh-duggar-files-lawsuit-against-springdale-and-washington-county/1044976722?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook_KNWA_-_Northwest_Arkansas_News

[Jenn The Heathen]

Josh is an awful person.  He is looking to profit off of molesting his sisters. 

[SamuraiKatz]

Josh is an awful person.  He is looking to profit off of molesting his sisters. 

That he is. JB and M should have let it go through the juvenile court system. The family would have been mandated into real treatment and the girls would have been able to process their abuse. The court records would have been sealed. Josh may have chosen to become a better person.

All that being said, In Touch should never have made this information public. By doing so, they outed sexual assault victims. The editors and owners are beyond reprehensible.

JB and M are contemptible.

[Ivycoveredtower]

4 minutes ago, SamuraiKatz said:

That he is. JB and M should have let it go through the juvenile court system. The family would have been mandated into real treatment and the girls would have been able to process their abuse. The court records would have been sealed. Josh may have chosen to become a better person.

All that being said, In Touch should never have made this information public. By doing so, they outed sexual assault victims. The editors and owners are beyond reprehensible.

JB and M are contemptible.

personally I think the public had a right to know the truth. could they have blacked out the info better sure but that's on the city not In touch. the Duggar's aren't some private citizens that in touch just decided to investigate they were on national and international tv. they choose to be on this  platform even knowing the skeleton in the closet. 

I don't blame the police the city or In touch to me the only people at fault for any suffering the girls went through is JIm Bob Michelle and Josh. 

[JenniferJuniper]

59 minutes ago, SamuraiKatz said:

All that being said, In Touch should never have made this information public. By doing so, they outed sexual assault victims. The editors and owners are beyond reprehensible.
 

But within their rights to publish legally obtained documents.  Had they not done it, someone else, whether journalist or citizen, would have done it. 

[marmalade]

Had Boob and Mechelle done the right thing and reported to the authorities in a timely fashion, records would have been sealed, and this fiasco would have been avoided. 

Now, he just looks greedy. Sorry dude, you're just pissed that you got caught. 

[SamuraiKatz]

7 hours ago, JenniferJuniper said:

But within their rights to publish legally obtained documents.  Had they not done it, someone else, whether journalist or citizen, would have done it. 

As @Ivycoveredtower stated, the Springdale PD should have done a better job of redacting--especially since one of the victims was still a minor.

The whole Josh scandal was buried deep, as in just a rumor on TWOP, until M made the transexuals = child predator bathroom bill robocall. Someone in the know made some bank on the Duggar hypocrisy.

[JordynDarby5]

Josh deserved to be outed and so did his parents. For what he did and for their part in covering it up. And for accusing other groups as molesters. But his sisters didn't deserve to be outed.           

6 hours ago, SamuraiKatz said:

As @Ivycoveredtowerstated, the Springdale PD should have done a better job of redacting--especially since one of the victims was still a minor.

The whole Josh scandal was buried deep, as in just a rumor on TWOP, until M made the transexuals = child predator bathroom bill robocall. Someone in the know made some bank on the Duggar hypocrisy.

It still blows my mind that they would do the robocalls and accuse transexuals of being child molesters knowing what they had that in their background.     

[Chewing Gum]

5 hours ago, JordynDarby5 said:

Josh deserved to be outed and so did his parents. For what he did and for their part in covering it up.     

I disagree, Josh was a minor too when the abuse happened so he should’ve been equally protected from outing. 

I do agree with the second part of your post though, its astounashing (however you spell that) that they bash other peoples beliefs, given the skeletons they have.  

[JenniferJuniper]

2 hours ago, Chewing Gum said:

I disagree, Josh was a minor too when the abuse happened so he should’ve been equally protected from outing. 

But he was far from a minor when the article was printed.  And he wasn't one of the victims.

 

[Jellybean]

Court records for juvenile cases are often sealed, I believe, to give them an opportunity for a fresh start in adulthood. It’s not the same but I can see some parallels. 

Of course, Smuggar blew his second chance too. 

[JenniferJuniper]

31 minutes ago, Jellybean said:

Court records for juvenile cases are often sealed, I believe, to give them an opportunity for a fresh start in adulthood. It’s not the same but I can see some parallels. 

Had his parents handled things properly they would have been sealed.

But they didn't, and in the process of trying to protect their good Christian name they harmed their son along with their four daughters.  

[SamiKatz]

16 hours ago, Ivycoveredtower said:

personally I think the public had a right to know the truth. could they have blacked out the info better sure but that's on the city not In touch. the Duggar's aren't some private citizens that in touch just decided to investigate they were on national and international tv. they choose to be on this  platform even knowing the skeleton in the closet. 

I don't blame the police the city or In touch to me the only people at fault for any suffering the girls went through is JIm Bob Michelle and Josh. 

Why should you have the right to know that someone was sexual assaulted as a child?  You shouldn't.

And why does the fact that they are on TV mean you should have that right?  You shouldn't.

Under no circumstances should the identies of sexual assault victims be made public unless they've chosen to do so.

I will NEVER understand the logic that because someone has chosen to appear on television, or to become a public person in some way, means they lose their rights to any privacy they seek - especially regarding things that happened when they were minor children.

 

[Ivycoveredtower]

23 minutes ago, SamiKatz said:

Why should you have the right to know that someone was sexual assaulted as a child?  You shouldn't.

And why does the fact that they are on TV mean you should have that right?  You shouldn't.

Under no circumstances should the identies of sexual assault victims be made public unless they've chosen to do so.

I will NEVER understand the logic that because someone has chosen to appear on television, or to become a public person in some way, means they lose their rights to any privacy they seek - especially regarding things that happened when they were minor children.

 

The public had a right to know about Josh. the girls got out that sucks for them but blame their parents for not taking them to the police on time so the records were sealed blame their parents for not protecting them from their brother. blame Josh for being the gross pig he is. Blame the parents for putting them in a position that their personal life in the public spot light.  they knew this was in the closet and they STILL put their kids on TV. the cops legally released the records and the tabloids legally obtained them the ONLY ones to blame are Jim Bob Michelle and Josh those are the people those girls need to be angry with. they set it all up and it came falling all down because of their own actions.  you can get as mad about my opionon as you want but it will never change. 

[SamiKatz]

4 minutes ago, Ivycoveredtower said:

The public had a right to know about Josh. the girls got out that sucks for them but blame their parents for not taking them to the police on time so the records were sealed blame their parents for not protecting them from their brother. blame Josh for being the gross pig he is. Blame the parents for putting them in a position that their personal life in the public spot light.  they knew this was in the closet and they STILL put their kids on TV. the cops legally released the records and the tabloids legally obtained them the ONLY ones to blame are Jim Bob Michelle and Josh those are the people those girls need to be angry with. they set it all up and it came falling all down because of their own actions.  you can get as mad about my opionon as you want but it will never change. 

I was sexually assaulted as a child.

Regardless of any path I took in life - YOU have no right to know that unless I decide you do.

Also:  saying you have a "right" to know idle gossip is ridiculous.  

[Ivycoveredtower]

Just now, SamiKatz said:

I was sexually assaulted as a child.

Regardless of any path I took in life - YOU have no right to know that unless I decide you do.

the girls got outed because of Josh and the parents and the public had a right to know about Josh and what type of people they were watching on TV. the girls have a right to be mad. but be mad at the people who made the situation possible JIm Bob MIchelle and Josh. not the police and in touch that followed the law. 

6 minutes ago, SamiKatz said:

I was sexually assaulted as a child.

Regardless of any path I took in life - YOU have no right to know that unless I decide you do.

Also:  saying you have a "right" to know idle gossip is ridiculous.  

Idle gossip are you freaking kidding me it's a proven fact what Josh did. 

[singsingsing]

I don't know enough about the FOIA laws/regulations in Arkansas, but in an ideal world the police would have been able to release the summary of Josh's actions, their investigation and their conclusion, without making it obvious who his victims were. This actually would have been very easy to do. Josh's victims never should have been outed without their consent.