Josh, Anna and the Ms 16: The sins of our fathers

[Dillies]

I’m a new poster (hello!) but I’ve been lurking for quite some time. I happened to see that Josh filed a lawsuit yesterday against the city of Springdale and his county in Arkansas. I can’t quite tell from the minimal information that is available online what it could pertain to. I’m also not a lawyer soooo I have nothing to offer in this space  Not sure if it’s a carryover from another lawsuit or something new?

[Jellybean]

Welcome @Dillies!

Do you have a link for that? Josh did try to file a few lawsuits in response to his scandals, but the only ones I could find were dismissed (or possibly delayed) last year (also he won the lawsuit filed against him about the photo he used for Ashley Madison). It would be interesting if, as you said, this one turned out to be a carryover from one of those previous lawsuits.

[SapphireSlytherin]

Back to flak/flack:

They're actually both real words. That may be why spellcheck allows "flack" to be used. It's similar to spellcheck allowing "there" instead of "their" or "they're" in the written word. Spellcheck only catches misspelled words - not misused words.  (And this is why I have the job I have... lol... I'm a font of mostly useless knowledge.)

Flack is a representative or agent.

Flak is a word from the early 1900s, and is taken/shortened from a German word for one of their weapons. 

 

[LurkerOverThePond]

I know this is the least of Anna's problems, but it makes me so stabby to see her call Smuggar as Joshua, not Josh like the rest of the family do. It sounds so damn official, but hey, maybe that's her way to cope with that jerk, distancing herself from his more common name. It just... makes me irrationally annoyed. End of story.

[singsingsing]

3 minutes ago, LurkerOverThePond said:

I know this is the least of Anna's problems, but it makes me so stabby to see her call Smuggar as Joshua, not Josh like the rest of the family do. It sounds so damn official, but hey, maybe that's her way to cope with that jerk, distancing herself from his more common name. It just... makes me irrationally annoyed. End of story.

Not sure why she does it, but she always has, ever since they were engaged and she started appearing on the show at least.

[SapphireSlytherin]

I've found that (in my personal experience) many wives call their husbands by their full names, rather than the typical nickname used by other family/friends, as a sign of "ownership" of their relationship.

I do call my husband by his full name (Bradley instead of Brad*).

*not his real name, of course

[Fascinated]

Maybe she prefers the name Joshua?  It is his name, after all. 

[Mayluka]

Every time I hear the name Joshua I think of Rachel on Friends saying it overly enunciated.

Quote

Rachel: “I can’t believe it. He still hasn’t called.”

Pheobe: “Who? Josh?”

Rachel: “It’s Joshua.”

Monica: “What, he doesn’t like Josh?”

Rachel: “No, I don’t.”

Spoiler

 

[Ivycoveredtower]

I have noticed it but it never really phased me now if Jessa started to call Ben Benjamin all the time I'd probably fall over laughing. 

[raised in rebellion]

On 9/3/2018 at 9:32 PM, viii said:

Anna had no options. She literally had ZERO options. She was raised in a very sheltered home, brainwashed into believing herself to be inferior, and had limited education and funds. She had four children to think after, and when the majority of her family was surely encouraging her to forgive her husband and stay, it would have been almost impossible for her to walk away. She would have had no way of supporting her family, and despite the fact that you think it would have been easy and she would have had support, that's simply not the case. Would majority of the world have supported her? Probably, but those people are very, very far away. The people actually IN Anna's world and involved in her life would have withdrawn, and she would have been very alone. That is a hard place to be when you're prepared for it, and when you aren't prepared for it? I don't blame her for staying, because coming from a similar background, I understand that she felt at the time she had no other option but to stay. 

I don't judge Anna for staying - I pity her. Someday, I hope she will get to the point where she has the means and the courage to walk away, not only for herself, but for her children as well. 

How is this not speculation? We don't know that she had no one. My understanding is that her family did offer support, and some of her siblings did break away, or at least tried. 

Many, many, many people leave religiosity in the rear view mirror. She had grounds to file for divorce, there are shelters. 

He wasn't a little kid, he was a teen, and perhaps it was more about power than sexuality. But since he violated his sisters in a sexual matter, I don't think it's speculation to assume both were at play. I think it's common sense. The fact that he did it to multiple girls is that much more horrifying. 

My son is 15. If he'd been caught at 8, playing doctor with a preschooler, I'd have been mortified, but certainly not condemning. I get that children can innocently explore and do weird things that must be addressed. My primary concern would be that someone had taught them that game and then go from there. At 15...no. At 15, boundaries and consent are concepts that he understands quite well. Josh understood. Everyone realized it was a major problem, as evidenced by them taking ANY measures. Those were extreme fundy measures employed. For the favorite son. It's what these people do. He wasn't a child. He was a young man. A repressed young man who took what he wanted, did what he wanted, because he thought he couod get away with it. And he has. Is that baseless? Am I being speculative? Not sarcasm. Truly not seeing how this isn't just what we do know. 

These families don't teach good touch/bad touch. They teach no touch. No show. Except by relatives (all too often) behind closed doors. According to Ken Alexander, and to many otherswho have broken away from these cults/religions, all types of abuse are rampant.

She gets no free pass for taking this risk. I can pity and loathe her at the same time. I'm not saying Josh definitely will do anything. I'm saying those kids are at very high risk of being SEVERELY (thank you, Jill) abused. It shouldn't be dismissed or thrown under the rug in the name of manners. And I hope Anna sleeps with one eye open. I hope she discovers her own strength and power over her and her children's lives is, in fact, in her hands. I hope she cares enough to break away. I hope that this exact scenario is not what she's always known. That's the stuff of speculation. 

I appreciate everyone's input, even the negative. Sometimes I need to be checked, I guess. Take a break, step away. This is a really hard topic for me, and my passions run high. Perverts seem to rule over so many churches...its such a great place to hide. But I don't excuse her staying, and she's no longer a victim in this situation. Agree to disagree. 

[singsingsing]

19 minutes ago, raised in rebellion said:

How is this not speculation? We don't know that she had no one. My understanding is that her family did offer support, and some of her siblings did break away, or at least tried. 

Many, many, many people leave religiosity in the rear view mirror. She had grounds to file for divorce, there are shelters. 

He wasn't a little kid, he was a teen, and perhaps it was more about power than sexuality. But since he violated his sisters in a sexual matter, I don't think it's speculation to assume both were at play. I think it's common sense. The fact that he did it to multiple girls is that much more horrifying. 

My son is 15. If he'd been caught at 8, playing doctor with a preschooler, I'd have been mortified, but certainly not condemning. I get that children can innocently explore and do weird things that must be addressed. My primary concern would be that someone had taught them that game and then go from there. At 15...no. At 15, boundaries and consent are concepts that he understands quite well. Josh understood. Everyone realized it was a major problem, as evidenced by them taking ANY measures. Those were extreme fundy measures employed. For the favorite son. I'm sure he was abused in that center he went to. It's what these people do. He wasn't a child. He was a young man. A repressed young man who took what he wanted, did what he wanted, because he thought he couod get away with it. And he has. Is that baseless? Am I being speculative? Not sarcasm. Truly not seeing how this isn't just what we do know. 

These families don't teach good touch/bad touch. They teach no touch. No show. Except by relatives (all too often) behind closed doors. According to Ken Alexander, and to many otherswho have broken away from these cults/religions, all types of abuse are rampant.

She gets no free pass for taking this risk. I can pity and loathe her at the same time. I'm not saying Josh definitely will do anything. I'm saying those kids are at very high risk of being SEVERELY (thank you, Jill) abused. It shouldn't be dismissed or thrown under the rug in the name of manners. And I hope Anna sleeps with one eye open. I hope she discovers her own strength and power over her and her children's lives is, in fact, in her hands. I hope she cares enough to break away. I hope that this exact scenario is not what she's always known. That's the stuff of speculation. 

I appreciate everyone's input, even the negative. Sometimes I need to be checked, I guess. Take a break, step away. This is a really hard topic for me, and my passions run high. Perverts seem to rule over so many churches...its such a great place to hide. But I don't excuse her staying, and she's no longer a victim in this situation. Agree to disagree. 

I just want to say that, while our ultimate opinion of Anna/her choices may be different, I completely understand where you're coming from, and I most definitely do not think that your revulsion and anger (I hope you don't mind me describing it as such) is unwarranted. It's a terrible, sickening situation, and the abuse inherent in fundamentalism runs deep. The entire system is rotten to its core.

[laPapessaGiovanna]

9 hours ago, raised in rebellion said:

How is this not speculation? We don't know that she had no one. My understanding is that her family did offer support, and some of her siblings did break away, or at least tried. 

Many, many, many people leave religiosity in the rear view mirror. She had grounds to file for divorce, there are shelters. 

He wasn't a little kid, he was a teen, and perhaps it was more about power than sexuality. But since he violated his sisters in a sexual matter, I don't think it's speculation to assume both were at play. I think it's common sense. The fact that he did it to multiple girls is that much more horrifying. 

My son is 15. If he'd been caught at 8, playing doctor with a preschooler, I'd have been mortified, but certainly not condemning. I get that children can innocently explore and do weird things that must be addressed. My primary concern would be that someone had taught them that game and then go from there. At 15...no. At 15, boundaries and consent are concepts that he understands quite well. Josh understood. Everyone realized it was a major problem, as evidenced by them taking ANY measures. Those were extreme fundy measures employed. For the favorite son. It's what these people do. He wasn't a child. He was a young man. A repressed young man who took what he wanted, did what he wanted, because he thought he couod get away with it. And he has. Is that baseless? Am I being speculative? Not sarcasm. Truly not seeing how this isn't just what we do know. 

These families don't teach good touch/bad touch. They teach no touch. No show. Except by relatives (all too often) behind closed doors. According to Ken Alexander, and to many otherswho have broken away from these cults/religions, all types of abuse are rampant.

She gets no free pass for taking this risk. I can pity and loathe her at the same time. I'm not saying Josh definitely will do anything. I'm saying those kids are at very high risk of being SEVERELY (thank you, Jill) abused. It shouldn't be dismissed or thrown under the rug in the name of manners. And I hope Anna sleeps with one eye open. I hope she discovers her own strength and power over her and her children's lives is, in fact, in her hands. I hope she cares enough to break away. I hope that this exact scenario is not what she's always known. That's the stuff of speculation. 

I appreciate everyone's input, even the negative. Sometimes I need to be checked, I guess. Take a break, step away. This is a really hard topic for me, and my passions run high. Perverts seem to rule over so many churches...its such a great place to hide. But I don't excuse her staying, and she's no longer a victim in this situation. Agree to disagree. 

Ok this should go in CD, but I'm going to reply here since your post is mostly fine.

Speculation about Anna being or not being able to leave Joshley is NOT the same thing as speculating about someone being abused or raped. The first is perfectly fine the second is forbidden. And it doesn't matter if you speculate that Satan himself must have been abused, if we don't have it as public knowledge of a fact that Satan was abused, we do NOT speculate that Satan was abused/might have been raped or anything along that line.

Understood? Please stop playing around the rules.

[Curious]

9 hours ago, singsingsing said:

I just want to say that, while our ultimate opinion of Anna/her choices may be different, I completely understand where you're coming from, and I most definitely do not think that your revulsion and anger (I hope you don't mind me describing it as such) is unwarranted. It's a terrible, sickening situation, and the abuse inherent in fundamentalism runs deep. The entire system is rotten to its core.

I think many people can understand the general feeling that Anna is not really any better than the rest of the Duggars.  THAT feeling is NOT the problem.   You (general) could speculate than Anna is an alien if you want.  Knock yourself out.

What you cannot do per our rules is speculate on who is or is not a victim of SEXUAL ABUSE in ANY form.

If you still don't/can't grasp this rather simple difference please take it to the thread in CD where it belongs.

Edit to add this is directed @raised in rebellion not Sing3

[Dillies]

20 hours ago, Jellybean said:

Welcome @Dillies!

Do you have a link for that? Josh did try to file a few lawsuits in response to his scandals, but the only ones I could find were dismissed (or possibly delayed) last year (also he won the lawsuit filed against him about the photo he used for Ashley Madison). It would be interesting if, as you said, this one turned out to be a carryover from one of those previous lawsuits.

https://caseinfo.aoc.arkansas.gov/cconnect/PROD/public/ck_public_qry_doct.cp_dktrpt_frames?backto=P&case_id=72CV-18-668&begin_date=&end_date=

If you can’t access the direct link because Court Connect makes you click through and do your own search, you can search for Joshua Duggar and cases that originated after January 1, 2018 and this should come up. 

[Million Children For Jesus]

Wow, I just jumped on to see if there was any info on Suze’s breakup with Matt, and the new guy, Keegan. It looks like I just missed quite an intense conversation.

My gut instinct on Daniel’s offer is that it was just lip service in a moment of anger. To the best of my knowledge, he never followed up on his comment or demonstrated in any way that he could make good on it. We don’t know what Daniel is like to live with. For all we know, he could be a more difficult personality type than Josh, and living with him would not be an improvement. Besides, how long can someone with four (at the time) children comfortably be a house guest anyway? I don’t think his offer had any merit.

[Toothfairy]

I see Anna posted on Instagram again. He least posts was two years ago. She she thinks we just forgot abput everything? Sorry Joshanna the public isn'tas forgiving as Gothard. 

[Dillies]

On 3/11/2018 at 11:49 PM, Dillies said:

https://caseinfo.aoc.arkansas.gov/cconnect/PROD/public/ck_public_qry_doct.cp_dktrpt_frames?backto=P&case_id=72CV-18-668&begin_date=&end_date=

If you can’t access the direct link because Court Connect makes you click through and do your own search, you can search for Joshua Duggar and cases that originated after January 1, 2018 and this should come up. 

The PDF of the complaint is now available at this same link. It is a civil lawsuit regarding invasion of privacy about the release of his juvenile records. You can read the full document. He is suing for damages due to the distress it caused him as well as lost income. 

[Jellybean]

That’s so interesting- thank you for sharing it!

[viii]

That is really interesting, thanks for sharing. 

I'm not entirely certain how the law works in the States, but he seems to have a case? Does anyone know if he does or not?

Mental anguish made me lol, though. Sorry Josh. 

[Dillies]

I did lol at a few of the celebrity status comments to be honest. International star! Important political career!

[CorruptionInc.]

3 minutes ago, Dillies said:

International star! Important political career!

If that's the case Josh, then I'm Bill Gates.

[Carm_88]

Another Josh lawsuit...*yawn*

[Seculardaisy]

On 3/11/2018 at 11:21 AM, SapphireSlytherin said:

I've found that (in my personal experience) many wives call their husbands by their full names, rather than the typical nickname used by other family/friends, as a sign of "ownership" of their relationship.

I do call my husband by his full name (Bradley instead of Brad*).

*not his real name, of course

I agree. My husbands family have a nickname for him and I’ve never once used it. 

[Ivycoveredtower]

11 hours ago, viii said:

That is really interesting, thanks for sharing. 

I'm not entirely certain how the law works in the States, but he seems to have a case? Does anyone know if he does or not?

Mental anguish made me lol, though. Sorry Josh. 

It happened when he was a juvenile but wasn't it that they didn't go to the police till after he was 18 which is why the police were able to release them to the media because they were not sealed. I don't think he has a case.  didn't the police have to release them by law because of the freedom of information act or some such. 

[HarleyQuinn]

I really hope the judge who gets this smacks it down again. Especially since it amounts to "wahhh I diddled kids and got caught."