Boyer Sisters Part 6: Two Left Limping Along

[ShesCrafty]

4 hours ago, Gabe said:

But most of my friends were guys who resented their mother's overreaches much more than those of their father so my perspective might be skewed.

You were raised (and continue to participate) in a society that teaches men are in charge of women because penis. Your perspective is more than skewed, it’s fucked up beyond all recognition. 

[singsingsing]

3 minutes ago, ladyamylynn said:

What is with this kid always making demands? 

What is it with fundamentalists in general doing this? It's such nonsense. Guys, it doesn't work that way. You don't get to accuse me of something and then demand that I explain myself. If you want to make a baseless assertion about me, the burden of proof is on you to show that what you're positing is true or has any merit whatsoever.

[LilMissMetaphor]

Honestly, I hate to be told "prove it" point-blank in many situations, not just because I don't like being told what to do, but because truth speaks for itself, sometimes, and not only that, but truth is multi-layered, and multi-faceted.  And life is complicated, and messy, and not a forensic crime scene.

    

[Kariina]

This may be one of the clumsier examples of the fundie blog phenomenon of trying to be authentic through testimony and admission of sin or whatever -- but it does have some distinct differences. In third person it's incredibly condescending, arrogant, and it's just plain mean to drop something like that on a day that's supposed to honor someone, not shame them.

My parents are each flawed individuals with personalities and backgrounds that have driven serious conflict in our relationships at times -- we have all had problems that merited professional help at one point or another. I wouldn't be caught dead writing about either of them like this. My reasoning is not a blanket rule about not being negative or authentic; it's because it's really toxic to presume ownership or assume control of someone else's narrative or struggle. It doesn't matter if it's Mrs. Boyer-approved, the optics of writing about someone else in that way with that timing are just dreadful.

Before you start narrating, writing, or sharing someone else's mental or otherwise personal struggle, ask yourself why you think you have the right to be the narrator. Blog clicks aren't a good enough reason.

Edit: And before Gabe @'s me about it: does this community sometimes border on what I'm describing? Kinda. I, and I'm sure most users here, think hard about what they're comfortable saying and check each other when boundaries are crossed. We acknowledge armchair analysis, BEC posts, and speculation. But ultimately this is public feedback on public media, we're not into outing people's inner lives and shaming them for, god forbid, nuance.

[Grimalkin]

6 hours ago, ladyamylynn said:

What is with this kid always making demands? 

        I know right! Will there be debate rulz and will he make them up? 

       Those girls would never dream of writing a post like this about their father. If they did, it would of been completely unacceptable.

        I hope your kids never feel that way about either parent.

[CoalMiningGuy]

@GabeI am a man who identifies as Christian. Roman Catholic but Christian;) I am preparing to propose to the woman I love and build a family with her. I love her  so so much that it is incomprehensible to me how a Husband can praise his daughters for shaming their mother in public. Does not the Bible command us to honor and respect our Parents, not just our fathers? My Father has always been a difficult man and parent, he is a very strict, taciturn man that rarely shows feeling and emotion. I admire him. Cause beneath his exterior is a man who loves deeply - but quietly. He never said I love you son, but he was proud to be my father.

[SoybeanQueen]

19 hours ago, formergothardite said:

If they wrote a father's day post speaking about how they ranted at their father until he broke, I would criticize them too. 

There is a time and a way to write a post expressing difficult relationships with parents. Charlotte was just mean. The fact that all of you appear to think treating parents like that is okay doesn't speak highly of your religious beliefs.

Yes, this exactly. Whether it is a mother or a father, or any human, the description of haranguing someone who is struggling mentally or emotionally until they break down is horrible.

As a Christian, I find it difficult to justify that blog post with the Biblical instruction to honor thy father and mother. Honoring typically does not involve making their weaknesses and (possibly perceived) failures public in such a cruel way.

My parents are not perfect. There are some things I wish had been different. I would never in a million years give my parents a public shaming. I'm raising 5 children. Three of them came to us through foster adoption and have some difficult behaviors that are flaring constantly since they've hit their teens. Am I always at my best lately? Nope. I cry a lot and sometimes I yell unless I put myself in timeout for a bit or call our family therapist. But I'm doing my best to raise decent human beings, and to have my worst times as a parent called out in public later on would be so hurtful.

[EowynW]

19 hours ago, Carm_88 said:

No, I would not praise the girls for writing that blog post about their Dad. I would feel just as sad for him as I did for their Mom. You are also assuming that we have completely normal relationships with our parents. We don't. Their environment may be toxic, that sucks please leave, it doesn't mean that you can berate someone until they break down. 

Toxic environments don't mean that you get to be toxic and cruel yourself. It means you have to rise above the garbage to be a better version of yourself. 

Also, my relationship with my Mom is up and down. We don't always get along but I try to treat her well for Mother's Day. My Dad would never cheer me on for being mean to her. 

^^^ this. & I was someone who was a SAHD in that fundie environment. 

[formergothardite]

IMO it was easier to try and act like we are man haters then it is to accept that what the Boyer sisters(and their father who lent support) did was unkind and uncalled for. That wasn't being "real" or "raw" that was being mean and self-centered. 

The best thing for them to do now is to pull the post and replace it with an apology that admits they were wrong in their treatment of their mother and in writing that blog post. I doubt we will see that, though, because Charlotte and Jessica seem to lack a great many Christ like character qualities. They need to get the giant logs out of their own eyes because they are blinded to how their behavior looks to the world. By leaving it up they aren't being a witness for Christ, they are just showing how petty and cruel they are. 

I hope they do read here and feel ashamed. 

[nausicaa]

On 5/13/2018 at 2:50 PM, singsingsing said:

The thing that really strikes me about Charlotte's post is how shockingly self-congratulatory and totally lacking in humility it is.

Unless I missed it, there's not a single line about Jessica and Charlotte reflecting on their own behaviour. Charlotte reflects on the way they related to their mother, but note that it's all about their own mindset and how it affected them. 

Not a single acknowledgement that perhaps the way they treated their mother in the past was immature, mean-spirited, or unhelpful. Nothing. Nada.

As someone with a complicated relationship with my mother, and who has issues with the "always respect your parents" mantra and has seen how much damage that can cause, I have such mixed feelings about the Boyers' post and the (sometimes harsh) reactions here. 

They very well may be hurting a lot from the actions of their mother, and I think that's valid and shouldn't be dismissed, as much as they might not be personally all that likable. (They also didn't state that she didn't abuse them, so we shouldn't make assumptions there.) I have issues from a lot of things my mother did when I was a child as a result of her own traumatic childhood. I think I have the right to be upset about them even if they don't reach "put into foster care" level bad. (Then again, I'm not about the write up a public blog post about it...)

However, your comment really pinpoints why their post leaves a bad taste in my mouth despite my sympathy. It doesn't come across as honest or soul baring, it comes across as a way to pat their own backs and show how superior they are. Their mother doesn't improve until she takes their advice, which they had been so wise as to know all along. There isn't anything about what they could have done differently or how they could possibly be adding to the dysfunction in their family. Also, they are adults,  and if the household is that uncomfortable to live in, moving out is a viable option. Some space and distance can do a world of good for many familial issues. 

[Carm_88]

I think my biggest issue with it is that I can't deal with that type of vague, public shaming. There's nothing wrong with being honest and saying that you didn't have the best relationship with your mother. Realistically there are many people who dealt with borderline or full on abusive parents who because it wasn't "that bad", they had to live with for years. If someone wants to write an honest blog about how they overcame that, good. I'll likely read it. 

However, when two young sheltered women with egos the size of Jupiter, write a blog about how they bullied their mother and the answer to everything is Jesus; I can't jump on that train. 

[hoipolloi]

1 hour ago, Carm_88 said:

I think my biggest issue with it is that I can't deal with that type of vague, public shaming. There's nothing wrong with being honest and saying that you didn't have the best relationship with your mother...However, when two young sheltered women with egos the size of Jupiter, write a blog about how they bullied their mother and the answer to everything is Jesus; I can't jump on that train. 

Again, ^^^^^^ all this. 

The fact that Mr. Boyer apparently approves of what they did makes it all the more reprehensible. 

 

[Sobeknofret]

If my child ever felt the need to write a public blog post like that about me or his father, or chastise one of us until we broke down and sobbed, our relationship would never recover. We would be heartbroken beyond belief, and making it all public to strangers would be a cruelty on top of cruelty. We would forgive him, beyond all doubt. That kind of vitriol cannot ever be forgotten though, and that would forever taint our relationship.

I cannot imagine what Mrs. Boyer is feeling right now, and will feel forever when she looks at her daughters. I am so sorry for her. That kind of cruelty is inexcusable.

[Palimpsest]

On 5/14/2018 at 12:31 PM, Gabe said:

I am just imagining all the praise and adulation that would be heaped on J and C if they wrote this post about their Dad instead of their mom...

I will not comment on the family here because that would be disrespectful of me and I promised not to in the beginning.

But if any of you have an ounce of self reflection please ask yourselves if you would be gleefully egging the girls on for being brave and sticking it to the man if they wrote this post about their Dad.

Nope, nope, and nope.  Speaking only for myself, the same disgust would have been heaped on J and C if they had chucked Daddy under the bus on Father's Day.

We criticize many women here, as you would know if you read beyond the Boyer threads.

On 5/14/2018 at 12:53 PM, Gabe said:

I would never publish something like that about my parents. Ever. If there was a real crime that they were trying to get away with I would publish it within the group of people who know them and who could help stop them or make it right, But I would never go online and write about them like that.

Neither would I.  Ever.  I think the most I have ever said about my father is that he was not a very nice man, and was Steve Maxwell-lite.  And I am anonymous here.  Not chucking him under the bus by name.  As J and C did to Mama Boyer.

So do you think they were right to do that?  I guess not.

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On the other hand, you don't really have a clue what they've been dealing with and I cannot and will not elaborate because it is not my place and this constitutes a hostile public platform.

Like the internet in general is not a "hostile public platform" as in where these little darlings just shamed Mama.  With Daddie's endorsement?

On 5/14/2018 at 1:03 PM, Gabe said:

You're a far more hopeful person about the climate here than I am.

Most of the rabidly "patriarchal" families in my experience have been run by the wife using her husband's authority to rubber-stamp her ideas. and make them mandatory for the children.

So it is all the women's fault for wanting to be submissive?  And to submit to the Patriarch?

Quote

I have met a few families with Dads who were controlling and bad, but the norm in my experience is the dad just sits on the sidelines working out of the home and relaxing on weekends while the mom wields the hammer of the "patriarchy" to try and keep the children in line.

And where does this concept of the Patriarchy come from?  Where in any truly successful marriage can it work?

So men are victims of women falling for Patriarchal ideals and "hammering" their husbands into position.  Oh pull the other one, @Gabe.

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But most of my friends were guys who resented their mother's overreaches much more than those of their father so my perspective might be skewed.

Your perspectives might indeed be skewed.  Talk more about these horrendously overreaching women so that we can understand how they grabbed the power.

My mother bowed down to her husband's Patriarchal beliefs, to her detriment and that of her children.

Quote

I hope they never feel this way.

So do I.

If you have "an ounce of self reflection please ask yourself" why Jessica, Charlotte and Papa Boyer think that Mother's Day post made any of them look good.

No, it made them all look really bad.

[Carm_88]

Poor little girl. I hope she just liked Charlotte's skirt and isn't really looking to her as a role model. 

[jozina]

Say hi to the newcomer, give time to young girls and berate your mother until she falls apart. It’s the Christian way.

[singsingsing]

New children at church really love me

And not just my skirt made by Brijee

Revering my hair

Concealing a stare

I have such a sweet new devotee!

Some mean people say that I'm pompous

Sinners who think I'm obnoxious

I couldn't care less

Silly you, I'm the best!

They fear me because I'm so flawless!

 

[catlady]

i initially wanted to point out that Charlotte's post above made me think that Jill Rodrigues wrote it, since it was so me-centric, but then i saw on her instagram that D. Gary Young has died and she posted a gushing tribute to him.

[Jhamishwat]

7 minutes ago, catlady said:

i initially wanted to point out that Charlotte's post above made me think that Jill Rodrigues wrote it, since it was so me-centric, but then i saw on her instagram that D. Gary Young has died and she posted a gushing tribute to him.

Gosh, I can't stand that guy...not only because of his shitty company, but because he killed his baby. 

[Carm_88]

It's Jessica's birthday, she's 23. Not exactly a flattering picture. 

Jessica on the other hand, was drawing Dr. R.C. Sproul as of April...she's pretty talented, just not certain about the subject matter. 

Spoiler

 

 

[AliceInFundyland]

I was in school for art and I can't draw like that. There is so much talent going to waste here. You two are maddening!

[Jhamishwat]

I wish she would employ that talent! It would definitely take her places that shilling oils and being a generally negative person wouldn't.  

[FilleMondaine]

Poor Jessica. This picture is the opposite of lovely. What sort of stress must she be under to have skin like that ? When was the last time any of us saw a real smile from her? No snark-I feel like the part of the movie where the bad guy turns out to be human and we see the utter sadness. (And yes, what a great artist)

[Jhamishwat]

1 hour ago, FilleMondaine said:

Poor Jessica. This picture is the opposite of lovely. What sort of stress must she be under to have skin like that ?

She's not really making a strong case for any of her proposed methods for skin care and de-stressing. 

I don't believe the whole bull crap about certain organs holding negative emotions, and that rubbing over them with oil helps. The skin is the largest organ on the body, and shows signs of stress quickly. Why aren't your magic oils working, Jessica? You say that you are able to destress by rubbing and praying, so what gives?

She needs to see a dermatologist as well as a therapist. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

Both C and J have real acne issues. I’ve known people with severe acne and absolutely nothing OTC or essential oil related will put much of a dent in it. Unfortunately they most likely need to see a dermatologist and possibly use medication. Accutane is often the last ditch effort because it has so many side effects. I’m glad they are embracing their skin for what it is and not hiding it. It’s one of the very few things I may applaud them on...