Boyer Sisters Part 6: Two Left Limping Along

[Seahorse Wrangler]

On 13/05/2018 at 4:23 PM, Palimpsest said:

Honestly.  It makes me wonder how much unhealthy enmeshment, emotional incest, and triangulation goes on in that family.  They drew so much closer to Daddy - Jess "sought solace by building my relationship with my Dad."  They think it is just fine to "rant" at Mom and "shake some sense" into her. 

what is it with those"women" and violence towards other adults?

Debi Pearl and her shake another woman till her teeth rattled.

Lori and her paddling of 'immodest' beach goers .

And now the Boyer sisters ...

[CurlyWurly]

From the bottom of their blog.  Cheers for the heads up, Charlotte.

[singsingsing]

Well bless your heart, Charlotte. Maybe you should open up your bible and take a peek at what Jesus had to say about hypocrites. Just a suggestion.

[nastyhobbitses]

15 hours ago, Seahorse Wrangler said:

what is it with those"women" and violence towards other adults?

Debi Pearl and her shake another woman till her teeth rattled.

Lori and her paddling of 'immodest' beach goers .

And now the Boyer sisters ...

In a society in which you have little to no power or agency, gaining power and control over whomever you can gain power and control over is pretty appealing. And if violence and control are the only ways you've seen authority or power modeled, guess what you're gonna do? 

[jozina]

No judgement?  Unless it's coming from Charlotte and Jessica, then that's just fiiiiine.

What revolting, arrogant little toads. I read that as Charlotte and Jessica not getting the perfect Christian robot mother they felt they should have though of course, it's vague enough that who knows. Heavy on the Jesus shaming. Also heavy on the unnecessary capitals - can I again commend German to the Boyer sisters? Or at least read this link as the "my Mom" and "my Dad" errors made my eyes bleed.

Must admit I laughed out loud when I read how "perfect" they may seem in their articles and photos.  Hate to break it to you Charlotte, but you seem as dysfunctional as hell.  And your photos don't present perfection either. If anyone is reading your blog and thinking you girls are perfect then they must have very little life experience.

Maybe their mother (not capitalised gal pals, though Mother's Day is by convention) should write a guest post about what it's like realising your daughter has so many tendencies of narcissism? I've long thought Charlotte (and Jessica to a slightly lesser degree) displayed them about as much as you can on a blog but that post is particularly awful.

[cottonsocks]

I'm a little hesitant to go straight to the name-calling territory with these girls - Charlotte is just eighteen, and Jessica isn't that much older than her. I hold J a little more responsible for her own words and actions, but honestly, I think both of these girls are stunted emotionally. I don't think either of them has, or possibly can, move emotionally beyond teen years - although I do think they are a little less judgemental towards outsiders now than they were a few years ago. 

And relationships with mothers can be difficult, and I would venture to say especially so in a patriarchal setting. On the one hand, yes, they were unkind and probably unfair to their mom; on the other, they feel safe to express that anger at and about her - they probably do not feel safe to express the same feelings about their dad. Maybe it's because of enmeshment with their father, or maybe it's because they know deep down that their mother loves them enough to put up with their tempers and criticism and their father does not. 

I thought it was an unexpectedly emotional post - the girls are saying that they never felt truly loved by her. Whatever the reasons behind feeling they can express that feeling, it's a heartbreaking feeling to have. They didn't feel loved by their mother, and in nonreligious settings, that's deeply upsetting and traumatic - how much more so in their particular setting would that be? They felt shut out by their mom. My relationship with my mom is good, and yes, there were areas of her life that were private to her (or to her and my dad), but I never felt shut out in the way they describe.

It was inappropriate to share as much about their mom's personal struggle as they did - however, it's worth remembering that it's very possible in their setting that their mom has already shared her story in more detail as a testimony in church, and so it's not a problem for this family to share their struggles openly. And I can't say that I never overshared about other people when I was eighteen, because I did and I unfortunately have an LJ record of it.

And the most honest thing I think any of them have ever said was admitting that their family is dysfunctional. I feel like at FJ everyone wants the fundies to be more honest, and well, the Boyers were. And that's evidenced by Charlotte's final couple of paragraphs where she encourages children to show parents tough love - that shows in a really sad way the topsy-turvy parental-child roles in that house. Those girls have been done a real disservice in their culture - they've learned that they have to be willing to parent their mother, they were given an ideal of motherhood that their mom probably could never have lived up to for multiple reasons, and they have not been allowed to push their boundaries and explore the world around them and consider new ideas, even within the Christian context. They've idealised the role of motherhood while learning to infantilise their mother, and that's why it took them by surprise to hear their mom express herself to them, and also confirmed their belief that they have to parent her in order to help her.

I'm not going to lie, I'm really curious about what their mother's life is and was like. I am getting a feeling that there is trauma in their mother's earlier life.

[jozina]

Who knows. The problem with the heavy Jesus talk is that her trauma could be anything from a loving two parent family where both parents were atheists who happened to think Daddy Boyer was a religious, misogynistic loon to an unstable home where drugs were served alongside afternoon tea and there was daily physical abuse. Lacking true maternal love may be an abusive and cold mother or it may be a loving mother who worked 40 hours a week, got divorced then remarried so through the lens of fundamentalism didn’t fully commit to motherhood.

I wonder if Mama Boyer’s mother is still alive and if she appreciated such a public slam from her granddaughter?

[Marionette]

I'm very conflicted over their blog post, because I have not had a very good relationship with either of my parents. I think the difference is that Ma Boyer was/is not abusive. Neither was my mom. In fact, she had a very hard childhood where she was fat-shamed by her mother (I was also abused by her mother in more ways than one) and raped constantly by her high school boyfriend, among other things. She passed away from cancer when I was 14, and I was never able to understand why she was so reserved and kept to herself. She only really spent time with me on my birthday... As for my dad, he is very self-centered and narcissistic, and I have never been very close to him (which, being involved in fundamentalism as a teen, that fact alone deemed me pretty much not-godly-enough) . During my mid-teens, he ranted constantly on how my mom wasn't a good enough mother, wife, etc. and that really had a negative effect on my viewpoint of her for a few years. But as I'm getting older, I'm beginning to understand her depression (not to mention she also had PPD after my younger brother was born) more clearly. 

All that to say, I am wondering if Pa Boyer has had this sort of influence on his daughters by complaining about his wife's behavior... It's extremely unfortunate that fundies don't particularly believe in depression/trauma. I've had my own share of fundamentalists telling me I don't have enough Jesus and I need to repent. I'm a Christian, but it's ridiculous and even offensive when people want to discredit your pain & past by just carelessly flinging God at you. Why don't you exemplify Christ like you're supposed to and show some compassion?! Gosh, I feel like I tend to blather on this Boyer thread... It really surfaces hidden emotions, I guess.

And despite my terrible relationship with my maternal grandmother & my own dad (having been abused by them), there ain't no way I would identify them on the internet and tell-all.

[katilac]

On 5/12/2018 at 3:03 PM, Carm_88 said:

I don't even know what's going on here. 

Boob shot. 

On 5/13/2018 at 11:03 AM, singsingsing said:

Charlotte claims she had her mom's blessing to post this. I really hope that's true. I hope her mom read every sentence of that post, considered it, and freely and confidently chose to give them the go-ahead.   

 

I don't feel like her mom felt free to say no. That would have led to tirades about her not being supportive, her wanting to look perfect, and her 'repentance'  not being genuine. 

[Gabe]

I am just imagining all the praise and adulation that would be heaped on J and C if they wrote this post about their Dad instead of their mom...

I will not comment on the family here because that would be disrespectful of me and I promised not to in the beginning.

But if any of you have an ounce of self reflection please ask yourselves if you would be gleefully egging the girls on for being brave and sticking it to the man if they wrote this post about their Dad.

[Denim Jumper]

My heart aches for her mother . Okay, so she probably has some baggage and wasn't quite the mother her daughters needed her to be... but is Mother's Day the appropriate occasion to air those grievances?? My husband and I both grew up in some pretty horrific parenting circumstances, but I can't imagine either one of us publicly outing our parents' failures. If for no other reason then, in spite of everything, we both have that instinct to protect them from that kind of scrutiny and humiliation.

[Lurky]

12 minutes ago, Gabe said:

I am just imagining all the praise and adulation that would be heaped on J and C if they wrote this post about their Dad instead of their mom...

See, I don't think we would, if they wrote it in the same style, because it's the whole vague-booking and self-righteous writing style that is getting everyone's backs up, and I think if anything, them writing in the same style about their dad would make us all sympathetic to him.

But there's also a huge difference in how much power a father has in a patriarchal family than a wife does, especially one raising Stay At Home Daughters to believe their only role in life is to be a wife and mother.   Of course, I get that we are most likely WAY off base with what goes on in that family, but the only information we have about it is what comes from the Boyer Sister blogs.   They have deliberately presented their family in a certain way, and if we're wrong, it's because we're reading the words they put out there.

Bear in mind that there are FJers here who had bad relationships with one or both parents, and their solution was to leave home, whether to study or work, and support themselves, building a separate life, so there is less sympathy here than there would be from other stay at home daughters.

Above all, I hope that if YOUR kids one day feel like this about you, they don't chose a public blog to tell the world what a shitty dad you were, on Father's Day, while still living under your roof, and with Brigid cheering them on.  I'm pretty sure we'd all be shocked at that too.

[FilleMondaine]

19 hours ago, adrianne98 said:

Hi there! 

First time poster here. I stumbled onto the confusing jesus teatime gothic manor wartime fairytale that is the boyer sisters a few years ago.

I just love this phrasing. It is so correct to their situation. It also perfectly explains what makes the sisters so compelling: Like some sort of Gothic novel, the emotions run high and we, their audience and commentariat, can't stop watching. We can't stop watching even as we pick apart their revisionist, "To the Manor Born"-type of world-view. Their whole situation is repellent, but I cannot look away!

We can only hope that the young ladies (who do come across as toads) earn some perspective. Not likely, based on what we know of their religiosity.

[formergothardite]

17 minutes ago, Gabe said:

I am just imagining all the praise and adulation that would be heaped on J and C if they wrote this post about their Dad instead of their mom...

If they wrote a father's day post speaking about how they ranted at their father until he broke, I would criticize them too. 

There is a time and a way to write a post expressing difficult relationships with parents. Charlotte was just mean. The fact that all of you appear to think treating parents like that is okay doesn't speak highly of your religious beliefs. 

ETA: I grew up with a mother who suffered from untreated mental illness. It made life hard. I can't image one of my siblings joining me in ranting at my mother till she broke. I also can't imagine being so disrespectful that I would right a blog post shaming her. I have compassion for her now. I saw no compassion in Charlotte's post.

 

[Gabe]

3 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

The fact that all of you appear to think treating parents like that is okay doesn't speak highly of your religious beliefs. 

 

I would never publish something like that about my parents. Ever. If there was a real crime that they were trying to get away with I would publish it within the group of people who know them and who could help stop them or make it right, But I would never go online and write about them like that.

On the other hand, you don't really have a clue what they've been dealing with and I cannot and will not elaborate because it is not my place and this constitutes a hostile public platform.

[formergothardite]

1 minute ago, Gabe said:

On the other hand, you don't really have a clue what they've been dealing

But what they dealt with is irrelevant in this case since they decided to keep it quiet while they went public with shaming their mother and apparently thought ganging up on her and ranting at her till she broke down was appropriate. For mother's day they wrote a post to let everyone know their mom sucked big time. The way they wrote how they treated their mom doesn't show any compassion. None. I can't wrap my mind around treating my mother that way or my godless children treating me that way. It blows my mind they thought this was okay. 

Why would any of us ever want the Boyer version of Jesus if it results in this? I realize you aren't going to say anything about them here, but I hope you and Brigid pull them aside and speak bluntly about how that post was in poor taste and an all around poor reflection on their character. Because it was both those things.

They are young, the internet is forever and they need to be very, very careful when it comes to what they put out there. They will now be known as those sisters who ganged up on their mom until she broke. 

[Gabe]

21 minutes ago, Lurky said:

See, I don't think we would, if they wrote it in the same style, because it's the whole vague-booking and self-righteous writing style that is getting everyone's backs up, and I think if anything, them writing in the same style about their dad would make us all sympathetic to him.

You're a far more hopeful person about the climate here than I am.

Quote

But there's also a huge difference in how much power a father has in a patriarchal family than a wife does, especially one raising Stay At Home Daughters to believe their only role in life is to be a wife and mother.   Of course, I get that we are most likely WAY off base with what goes on in that family, but the only information we have about it is what comes from the Boyer Sister blogs.   They have deliberately presented their family in a certain way, and if we're wrong, it's because we're reading the words they put out there.

Most of the rabidly "patriarchal" families in my experience have been run by the wife using her husband's authority to rubber-stamp her ideas. and make them mandatory for the children. I have met a few families with Dads who were controlling and bad, but the norm in my experience is the dad just sits on the sidelines working out of the home and relaxing on weekends while the mom wields the hammer of the "patriarchy" to try and keep the children in line. But most of my friends were guys who resented their mother's overreaches much more than those of their father so my perspective might be skewed.

Quote

Above all, I hope that if YOUR kids one day feel like this about you, they don't chose a public blog to tell the world what a shitty dad you were, on Father's Day, while still living under your roof, and with Brigid cheering them on.  I'm pretty sure we'd all be shocked at that too.

I hope they never feel this way.

[nickelodeon]

Do we NEED to know everything about the Boyers' lives to be able to remark "gee, these ladies really like dragging their family members on the internet" though? :\

[ViolaSebastian]

46 minutes ago, Gabe said:

I am just imagining all the praise and adulation that would be heaped on J and C if they wrote this post about their Dad instead of their mom...

You've managed to piss me off mightly this morning, Gabe. To insinuate that I would approve of this post is downright disgusting. That's how revolting I found this post. To write an extended post on one's mother, who is dealing with serious trauma in her past, calling her "sinful" and flat out blaming her for not being as loving as Jessica and Charlotte thought she ought to be is awful. And this was published ON MOTHER'S DAY. It's disgraceful behavior, even if the person in question wasn't a family member. So drive to Wal-mart, go to the furniture section, and buy a chair. Because you need to take a seat.

[singsingsing]

Howdy @Gabe

1. No, I would not be cheering them on had they posted this about their father. I would have exactly the same feelings and thoughts. I had a very troubled relationship with my own father for many years. He was an extremely difficult person to live with and to function in a parent-child relationship with. I would never have posted something like that about him on a public blog, much less with his identity and photograph attached.

2. Of course we don't have the whole story. But that's the problem. Charlotte and Jessica are choosing to share these things on a public blog. They're putting this out there for public consumption. We're not rudely rummaging through their private journal - they are the ones choosing to make this known to the world, and they are the ones choosing how much or how little to share. How they could possibly expect strangers on the internet to only interpret it in the way they would personally prefer is beyond me. It doesn't work like that, I'm afraid.

[Gabe]

2 minutes ago, ViolaSebastian said:

You've managed to piss me off mightly this morning, Gabe.

I manage to do that quite easily if I remember correctly.

I do think that you are low enough to approve of a post like that about Mr Boyer especially given how many of you (I didn't go back to see if it was you in particular.) are still trying to pin everything on him.

Prove me wrong I would be happy to be wrong (about this).

[ViolaSebastian]

Just now, Gabe said:

I manage to do that quite easily if I remember correctly.

I do think that you are low enough to approve of a post like that about Mr Boyer especially given how many of you (I didn't go back to see if it was you in particular.) are still trying to pin everything on him.

Prove me wrong I would be happy to be wrong (about this).

Go back and look for my posts blaming your father-in-law for any of this. I'll wait. 

[Carm_88]

48 minutes ago, Gabe said:

I am just imagining all the praise and adulation that would be heaped on J and C if they wrote this post about their Dad instead of their mom...

No, I would not praise the girls for writing that blog post about their Dad. I would feel just as sad for him as I did for their Mom. You are also assuming that we have completely normal relationships with our parents. We don't. Their environment may be toxic, that sucks please leave, it doesn't mean that you can berate someone until they break down. 

Toxic environments don't mean that you get to be toxic and cruel yourself. It means you have to rise above the garbage to be a better version of yourself. 

Also, my relationship with my Mom is up and down. We don't always get along but I try to treat her well for Mother's Day. My Dad would never cheer me on for being mean to her. 

[Denim Jumper]

42 minutes ago, Gabe said:

I am just imagining all the praise and adulation that would be heaped on J and C if they wrote this post about their Dad instead of their mom...

I will not comment on the family here because that would be disrespectful of me and I promised not to in the beginning.

But if any of you have an ounce of self reflection please ask yourselves if you would be gleefully egging the girls on for being brave and sticking it to the man if they wrote this post about their Dad.

Personally, my reaction would be the same if the post was about their father. It's cruel to publicly "out" a parent for not being the mother/father you needed them to be, especially when that parent is taking ownership of their mistakes and make positive changes.  

[Coconut Flan]

14 minutes ago, Gabe said:

I do think that you are low enough to approve of a post like that about Mr Boyer especially given how many of you (I didn't go back to see if it was you in particular.) are still trying to pin everything on him.

Generally we don't approve posts.  All members are allowed to post freely in unrestricted areas.  The only posts we approve are for members in the prayer closet or Journey to the Heart.