Lori Alexander 29: Gossiping about Gossip

[AlwaysDiscerning]

[TeddyBonkers]

If I recall my OT correctly, God spoke directly to those "strong leaders". Leaders like Elijah, David, Isaiah, and Deborah. 

Yeah, @Ken,God spoke to a woman leader. 

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

[Jumping Jack Flash]

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And I have seen in my own life that submission does not cause abuse. He has hit me in the past and since my OWN CHANGES he has become more calm and hasn't hit me since.

 

So yeah he only hit her once.  Twice maybe.  OK --  3 times. Tops.  But since she changed and became totally submissive he's calmer now and hasn't hit her again.

'Cause now the problem is completely fixed.  As long as she's submissive, he's calm and won't hit her.

SMDH -- "hasn't hit me since" -- what an effing low bar of acceptable behavior. 

And Lori with her 'If he's abusive call the authorities -- but wait you need to endure suffering and win him without a word' contradictory advice. Physical abuse is bad, but sticking it out, suffering in silence and being totally submissive will "cure" the asshat and then he won't hit you again. 

Because that has always worked out well for so, so, so many women.

[SuperNova]

2 hours ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

 

When he passed, as adults we all realized just how much he kept her in check and what it would have been like if she'd gone full bore as we were growing up.  We always say the only mean thing Daddy ever did was die and leave us Mama.

 

 

That is heart breaking and it makes me sad that you went through that. I got a little teary reading your response and I apologize if I brought up hurtful memories. I had a parent much the same. Eventually with a lot of therapy the relationship improved but I understand what you went through. Hugs to you.

[EowynW]

uhh.... one hit should = intense therapy and separation. A second offense is divorce papers in my book. 

 

My dad never hit my mom but he would be physically intimidating (poking roughly, getting in your face/space, etc in anger) to us. I remember defensively telling Mr. EW one day right after we got married that I'd leave if he hit me. It hurt his feelings dreadfully that I would even think he'd do such a thing, since he is an angel of a man, but I think it was just a heads up self preservation thing and I just needed to say it to make sure. I had a bad habit of doing that our first few months of marriage about many things. 

[feministxtian]

I like that Lori is getting pushback on her bullshit. Between what's on her page and Pastor Jay...she's going to have to eventually get her head out of her ass.

Physical abuse: Husband put his hands on me once (see drunken asshole) and I beat the SHIT out of him. I mean, I kicked his ass. He found out quick that putting hands on me wasn't a good idea. 

Although, I truly think Lori needs a swift kick in the ass...

[AlwaysDiscerning]

When I was younger and healthier? Since when was she healthy back then?  All we hear was how she was too sick to play with her kids, now she changes tunes to be sooooo sick now to get out of painting.

[SuperNova]

That's rich. Lori's home is in bad need of painting. I hope someone she knows will go to her house, take sneaky pictures, then post them online with rude and judgemental captions, and paint shame her!

[Loveday]

The horror. She'd probably have a field day photographing and shaming me for my walls. Some of the bedrooms haven't been painted in decades.

I'd like to know why KEN can't slap a coat of paint on those kitchen walls. I painted my entire kitchen by myself a few years ago. If I can do it, surely he can. 

 

*Ha. I just realised I made it sound like I've got 20 bedrooms or something. Or at least six, like Lori. No. Just four, all of which are small because my house is very early 80s, with no open floor plan, no granite countertops, and no huge bedrooms. My fantasy is having Chip and Joanna come redo it all. For free.

[Seahorse Wrangler]

I haven't painted the main room since we moved in 17 years ago. Mainly because Mr wrangler liked the colour but also because it's cathedral ceilings and there's no way I was going to do that.

 

Once I find a colour scheme I like them I'm going to be looking for professional painters to do their magic.

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

@SuperNova  Hugs to you too. I'm glad you managed to have an improved relationship with your parent. Once I left home mine evolved into something polite, superficially seeming close but not really. 

In retrospect it was tough dealing with her as a teenager, but my father's complete and unconditional love, support and belief i could do anything I set my mind to went a long way to making up for it.  

My mother wasn't an ogre, although I think she leaned into the NPD spectrum. She was one of those very intelligent people who had a sharp, nasty, snarky tongue and didn't mind using it  She was the queen of the single well-placed barb and the soul withering look.. It wasn't every minute of every day. Things would be fine for weeks, and then -- Sharp Jab ... Thrust. 

She was also the queen of kindness and wonderful friendship to anyone outside her family. Full of charm and wit, hospitality and  graciousness.  None of her friends were ever aware of her other side.  The thing is she could and did show that kindness, charm, wit, and graciousness to her family. But then ... jab .... thrust. 

I will say that she was a great lesson in learning that just because you know the most wounding thing you can say to someone, doesn't mean you have to say it.

[onemama]

10 hours ago, Loveday said:

@usmcmom, I'm probably going to sound all nitpicky here, which I totally don't mean to, so please please please forgive me.   But the Holy Spirit didn't come to the disciples until the day of Pentecost in the book of Acts, after Jesus' death and resurrection. So in that sense, Peter hadn't received the Holy Spirit when he cut off the soldier's ear, or when he denied Jesus three times. I'm guessing Lori wouldn't hesitate to point that out in order to prove that True Christians are perfect and can't possibly sin. Or interpret the Bible incorrectly, which of course Lori never, ever does. 

But this happened after Pentecost: 

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11 But when Peter came to Antioch, I had to oppose him to his face, for what he did was very wrong. 12 When he first arrived, he ate with the Gentile believers, who were not circumcised. But afterward, when some friends of James came, Peter wouldn’t eat with the Gentiles anymore. He was afraid of criticism from these people who insisted on the necessity of circumcision. 13 As a result, other Jewish believers followed Peter’s hypocrisy, and even Barnabas was led astray by their hypocrisy.

And this: (which, by the way, sounds like two women in ministry to me....)

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2 I entreat Euodia and I entreat Syntyche to agree in the Lord. 3 Yes, I ask you also, true companion, help these women, who have labored side by side with me in the gospel together with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life.

These two women were not in agreement and their disagreement must have been causing trouble in the Church for Paul to mention them in his letter. 

Here, Barnabas and Paul disagree:

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37 Now Barnabas wanted to take with them John called Mark. 38 But Paul thought best not to take with them one who had withdrawn from them in Pamphylia and had not gone with them to the work. 39 And there arose a sharp disagreement, so that they separated from each other. Barnabas took Mark with him and sailed away to Cyprus, 40 but Paul chose Silas and departed, having been commended by the brothers to the grace of the Lord. 41 And he went through Syria and Cilicia, strengthening the churches.

It appears that disagreement was ok, as long as they separated so they could focus on doing the work of spreading the Gospel.  

Just "proof" that people who were filled with the Spirit and doing its bidding still made mistakes, had arguments and separated.

Whenever I hear someone condemn divorce as the ultimate sin, I have to remember this passage:

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10 To the married I give this charge (not I, but the Lord): the wife should not separate from her husband 11 (but if she does, she should remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband), and the husband should not divorce his wife.

separation and divorce are permissible. Yet another case where the Bible is more compassionate and realistic than these fundamentalist teachers.  

This passage regarding living with a non-believer debunks their theory that only wives may save their unbelieving husbands if they stay with them.  

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 To the rest I say (I, not the Lord) that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he should not divorce her. 13 If any woman has a husband who is an unbeliever, and he consents to live with her, she should not divorce him. 14 For the unbelieving husband is made holy because of his wife, and the unbelieving wife is made holy because of her husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy. 15 But if the unbelieving partner separates, let it be so. In such cases the brother or sister is not enslaved. God has called you to peace. 16 For how do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?

I would love to direct Ken and their MRA friends to that passage.  We are called to peace, people, not constant arguing. 

[onemama]

This exchange between a reader, Lori and Trey is very sad. Heartbreaking, really.  Reader says:
 

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 How would you councel a woman in a lonely marriage? I am not by any stretch of the imagination abused or even treated unfairly… Just neglected emotionally. My husband is a good man, a good father, and a good provider. I stay home full time and homeschool our children. He just doesn’t know how to be compassionate or loving towards me

 

Lori:

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Let me tell you about my mother, (name edited out). 

And she proceeds to tell the story about her mother who was taken across the country, far from her family, and left alone most of the time. Only in the last six years has she started to appreciate her long-suffering, good-provider of a husband (according to Lori).

Then she adds:

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- Living a life for the Lord doesn’t mean that it’s easy or popular but it’s so very good and yes, it can be lonely. Maybe meet up with a few girlfriends once in a while for that emotional connection you are craving.

- Read about Mr. Steady in Debi Pearl’s book. It will help you to better appreciate your husband’s personality. Blessings to you!

What kind of advice is that? Go find companion in your girlfriends (occasionally!) and read this book to understand your husband.  Don't talk to him about your feelings, don't seek counseling. No. Read a book and find some girlfriends. 

Then along comes Trey with his expertise:

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I believe in general, men do not understand the “emotional” needs of women. We just do not have a frame of reference to comprehend them. Also, I do not think that men and women understand “love” the same way. From my point of view it sounds like you are being loved GREATLY. The Bible defines love but from my experience, this is not what women are talking about when they say they don’t “feel” loved. I want to keep this post short so without much explanation I would encourage you to try the following.

You just told her to shut up, Trey, do you realize that? Her husband isn't showing love and compassion in a way that she can understand it.  And don't tell me men aren't wired to understand a wife's needs. I've known men who know very well how to show love, compassion and understanding. Do you know how they do it? They ask questions. They love their wives and pay attention to them and their needs. 

The rest of his post is typical Trey stuff: you meet his needs, make sure he's getting everything he needs from you and then, if he asks, tell him about your needs.  

I don't see these men ever counseling each other like that. They never tell each other to win their wives or to love their wives more. No, it's always the women who have to jump through all the hoops.

I don't know why Lori allows these comments. Does she not realize how awful they are?  Oh, wait a minute... they are just like hers. 

[Liza]

1 hour ago, onemama said:

How would you councel a woman in a lonely marriage? I am not by any stretch of the imagination abused or even treated unfairly… Just neglected emotionally. My husband is a good man, a good father, and a good provider. I stay home full time and homeschool our children. He just doesn’t know how to be compassionate or loving towards me

But this is abuse.  It is emotional abuse .. neglect.   If he is not compassionate or loving, it is no marriage.  Love and marriage involve give and take, not take and take. 

It seems that many, including Lori, do not realize that abuse is far more than physical.   There are many forms of abuse that are far more common:  verbal, emotional, psychological, neglect, which are just as damaging, perhaps more so in some cases. 

[AlwaysDiscerning]

Today's post is an obvious dig at the fb commenter yesterday who talked about her divorce. 

[Koala]

Lori just hates it when women blow abuse out of proportion.

Reader:

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He has hit me in the past and since my OWN CHANGES he has become more calm and hasn't hit me since.

A reader chimes it (likely, to express concern), and Lori deletes all of her comments.

Lori:

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No, men should never hit their wives but thankfully, it only happened once and you are seeing the fruit of a life in obedience to the Lord for we reap what we sow!

Lori (again):

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I deleted her comments because women like her like to blow things all out of proportion in order to discount God's role for women.

She's vile.  Absolutely vile.

From today's post:

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love has NOTHING to do with our feelings and emotions

It must be really horrible feeling absolutely nothing for your husband...what a sad marriage Lori and Ken must have...

[onemama]

Worship: ushering in the king (Matt Redman, with his wife, Beth). It's worth a watch. 

Nice contrast with the arguing that goes on on the TW blog, eh?   Lori might not give them the time of day, but they are using their position to help the downtrodden.  "Let my deeds outrun my words, let my life outweigh my songs". Yup. Inspiring! 

[LizzieDawn]

1 hour ago, Liza said:

But this is abuse.  It is emotional abuse .. neglect.   If he is not compassionate or loving, it is no marriage.  Love and marriage involve give and take, not take and take. 

It seems that many, including Lori, do not realize that abuse is far more than physical.   There are many forms of abuse that are far more common:  verbal, emotional, psychological, neglect, which are just as damaging, perhaps more so in some cases. 

It's hard to realize what is abuse when you say things like this (from Lori's blog post today):

"I seriously doubt many wives have given themselves up to be “ruled and governed” (as Gill’s Exposition stated in the comments above) by their husbands even though this is what the Lord calls them to do. God has ordained wives to be their husband’s help meet and not vice versa. Our main ministry in life is to our husbands to make their lives as good as we can and help their lives to be easier. Our husbands are the decision makers and we are called to obey and support these decisions joyfully and willingly, just as we do the Lord’s decisions and commands to us. " 

 

[EowynW]

40 minutes ago, LizzieDawn said:

It's hard to realize what is abuse when you say things like this (from Lori's blog post today):

"I seriously doubt many wives have given themselves up to be “ruled and governed” (as Gill’s Exposition stated in the comments above) by their husbands even though this is what the Lord calls them to do. God has ordained wives to be their husband’s help meet and not vice versa. Our main ministry in life is to our husbands to make their lives as good as we can and help their lives to be easier. Our husbands are the decision makers and we are called to obey and support these decisions joyfully and willingly, just as we do the Lord’s decisions and commands to us. " 

 

Lori is pulling this out of her ass. 

[LizzieDawn]

Lori is now agreeing that it makes things worse when women initiate Christian counseling.  If women would just shut up and obey, everything would be fine.   Nope, that's not destructive teaching at all. 

Male Reader:

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  I'd be interested to see any data on the numbers of times (percentage) the wife initiates counseling vs. the husband (within the Christian Counseling realm). It would not surprise me to see the vast majority being the wife doing the initiating. This is problematic on many levels, and in reality, only intensifies the problem much of the time.

Lori:

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 I believe you are right! I personally don't know any husbands who initiated counseling with the women I have mentored. God gives a perfect prescription for women to win their husbands in 1 Peter 3:1-6

Marital counseling with an abuser/narcissist is usually a bad idea, because they will twist everything you say against you, especially if the counselor is not good at recognizing abuse...but I really doubt that's what this reader is talking about.

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

This purely anecdotal, but of the people I know who are divorced (not a huge number) in nearly every case it is the husband who left the wife for another, younger woman.

It was the men who discarded the wives "of their youth" for a newer model.  Usually blonde, no children, no wrinkles, and with a career.

I worked with a woman years ago who left her physically, emotionally, verbally, spiritually abusive pastor husband.  And she only left him when she caught him teaching their 11 year old son the finer points of how to discipline women. 

She was vilified by their families and the church for daring to suggest he wasn't the godly Man of God he so "obviously" was (because pastor and all that) and for daring to divorce. No one believed her about the abuse or else said she must have done something awful to provoke him, so it was all her fault anyway.

Interestingly she had complete custody of her children because the husband didn't care to fight her.  I understand he presented himself after the divorce as the righteous man betrayed by the jezebel who left him and tried to spread vicious lies about him.  He had the full backing of his congregation. Because it must be true as he was a godly Man of God and she moved away.  Or as she said her family put it, slunk out of town with her lies because she was so ashamed of what she'd done.

So in Lori's world she should have stayed with her abuser and watched him teach their son to be an abuser. All the while suffering in silence and trying to win him without a word.

Crazy town I tell you

[AlwaysDiscerning]

1 hour ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

This purely anecdotal, but of the people I know who are divorced (not a huge number) in nearly every case it is the husband who left the wife for another, younger woman.

 

Right, hence the statistic of 70% of divorces are filed by women. BECAUSE he did things just like that, cheated!  The man isn't about to initiate divorce over cheating. He is going to hope he can have his cake and eat it too and that she will take Lori's advice and just stay no matter what.  But the MRAs and Loris love to quote that statistic to prove how evil women are, tearing up all these homes.

[Koala]

Lori is getting more extreme as time goes on.  Yesterday she said:

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if they are physically abusing them, they need to call the authorities and seek help immediately but there is no where in the Bible that states that abuse is a reason for divorce.

Back in 2011 she said:

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 It seems the only reason to divorce should be if there is physical abuse towards the children or wife. 

She also said:

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When I was first married I thought that if Ken cheated on me, I would definitely divorce him because the Bible says I can. 

As I have grown older and wiser, I no longer think I would divorce him if he cheated on me.

I think she wouldn't leave him, because she isn't willing to part with his money.  It's certainly not because she feels anything for him.  Remember:

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love has NOTHING to do with our feelings and emotions

Of course, now that I think about it- who does Lori love?  Have we ever seen evidence that she loves anyone other than herself?

[AlwaysDiscerning]

@KoalaYES, exactly that. She won't divorce no matter what because she needs the money and status more than anything. This is a huge trend among older Christian women. They won't divorce for practical reasons but they  lord it over everyone that they don't divorce because the are more spiritual or wiser or just a morally better person. Of course too when you are first married with maybe one or no children you are still very young and attractive. It would be easy enough to find someone better. Funny how as the amount of children grows and looks fade they become so much "wiser". Knowing full well if they divorce later in life they have lots of kids in tow and just not as attractive as they were in their youth and it would be harder to find a man. 

This is why the fundies want their wives to have soooo many children. It really traps them from leaving and the men can have their affairs. Then the wives get to get on their soapbox and talk about how much better they are because they don't divorce. They take God's word seriously. When really they are just trapped. 

[AlwaysDiscerning]

Reader:

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How do you feel about divorced women serving as children’s teachers in the church? My husband and I are currently dealing with this. A woman pursuing divorce from her husband (no cheating involved), and she is still serving as a Sunday school teacher. We feel like she shouldn’t be in any teaching position because she is going directly and blatantly against the Bible. We do have a meeting with our pastoral staff to discuss, but I would greatly appreciate your thoughts.

Golly, how does she know no cheating is involved. Gotta love the busybodies at church who find out these details. Maybe its because of abuse. Regardless, this poor woman is on her way to being shunned and cast aside. She will be treated like a child molester probably and can no longer be around kids.