Lori Alexander 29: Gossiping about Gossip

[Hisey]

15 minutes ago, Letgo said:

I was also a SAHM. It was a choice we made and it was right for us. We rarely went on vacation. I bought clothing on clearance sales.  We didn't go out to eat much and if we did it was something like Subway or Taco Bell. We did what we needed to do to make it work. For others it might not be the right choice. But if a woman wants to stay home and can swing it financially she ought to feel free to make that choice. But it should be a CHOICE. Not the sole option simply because a woman is a mother. I loved being home and volunteered in schools, church, and sports leagues. I was asked, "What do you do all day?" more than once. I laughed.

I babysit my grandchildren now because my daughters work. Both would rather stay home but for financial reasons they don't. I'm glad I can be here to help and have to say, they are a joy. I don't get nearly as much done as I did when my own kids were little, but I'm older now. And there really isn't a need to get as much done-easier to cook and clean when one is an empty nester.

Should I ask Lori if I am contributing to the downfall of my daughters by babysitting for them? I am naturally concerned lest she not approve this choice, as she is such an excellent role model. But since I was a SAHM perhaps it is okay now for me to be with the grandkids now? It's a quandary!

I think you should be very concerned about what Lori thinks <snort> 

You know what's weird? People don't ask women in your situation what they do all day. You are taking care of your grandchildren. It's obvious. It's just moms who get asked that question. Yet they are doing the same job. 

Of course, correct me if I am wrong and people do ask you that question nowadays.

 

[mango_fandango]

My mother became a SAHM when she had me. It was her choice. Dad thankfully earns a decent amount and we live in a fairly middle-class area. He bought our house outright back in 1996 when it was just over £325k. Now worth around £2m 21 years later (yep, we moved the day after my first birthday and have stayed since). A few years ago she got a TEFL (teaching English as a foreign language) qualification, volunteered at a refugee centre for a while, and briefly offered herself as a tutor although she hasn't done this for a while. 

I recently graduated from university and am naturally looking at jobs. Because of the way I am (suspected ASD, waiting for an appointment for a diagnosis) I would probably do best in a full-time job, where my day is structured and I know what I'm supposed to be doing when. Even if a potential partner/husband were to earn enough so that I didn't have to work, I probably would. Because that's what many women do; they want to be able to earn their own money rather than have to rely on someone else. According to people like Lori, men are supposed to want a wife who stays at home and who is financially dependent... when actually I reckon many men actually want a woman who is independent and earns her own money. Emotional and financial dependence isn't a very attractive trait. Fundie women may be allowed "businesses" like selling trinkets/modest clothing/piano lessons or whatever, but they don't really make enough money to live off.

[lilwriter85]

1 hour ago, Loveday said:

I can't. I JUST CAN'T.  

Lori's latest doodle vomit:

Sedentary employment? Let's put this in slightly more modern terms, shall we, Lori? You know, like sitting at your computer MORE than ten hours a day, year in and year out? While your housekeeper sweeps, washes, and does the duties of a well-ordered house?

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaa....

 

This one really pisses me off.  I keep hoping that her former nanny/housekeeper goes public and takes her to task though some online method.

I love how she mentions working impairing their eyesight, yet she wears fucking glasses. If she was a SAHM, shouldn't her vision be perfect. I know her brain tumors effected her vision IIRC. But, her whole attempt to make it seem as being at home doing housework makes you healthier is just annoying as fuck.  We all know she didn't do many of the things she says that SAHMs should be doing. Some household chores don't always need to be done every single day.

[So-Virgin-It-Hurts]

16 hours ago, Hisey said:

Really? A fly swatter? So Lori was being hit by metal and plastic? 

I mean, why use a tool that will cause such serious pain? Was it really necessary? Was Lori so incorrigible that it didnt' work to send her to her room or take away her favorite toy? 

I am thinking back to what fly swatters look like. If I recall, the flat plastic fly-killing part is only about 4 x 6 inches. So if you hit a child's butt with it, you will quite likely strike her with the metal rods as well.

Lori's mom was isolated and missing her family and friends in the midwest (or was it Utah?). Deeply unhappy with her husband, who was never home. Three little girls back to back. I understand she is very ill now, so I don't want to be critical, but these things make me wonder how often she used that fly swatter. Because though Lori may disagree, I don't think the fly swatter "improved" her in any way.

Personal experience with flyswatters here:  I am Lori's age and my mother also hit me with the wire handle of a flyswatter on my calves and thighs. It hurts and leaves red marks. When she was really mad she'd hit my cat because that was the only way to make me cry. Guess what? I hated her. Forever. There was never any type of affection at anytime - even my wedding. I did not go to her funeral and I have never regretted it. I will add that there are extenuating circumstances and I know I am an outlier in terms of mother-child relationships. For example, she didn't want to have another baby and wasn't able to bond with me until I was about 6 months old (due to her health). I knew from the time I was three years old that I hated her. Don't worry though, I pretty high-functioning and happy now. Cut my losses early and never looked back.

[Loveday]

Only one reply on the latest doodle, and it will be gone real soon, I'm sure, as we can't be having facts getting in the way of anything:

Quote

Actually the average life expectancy of women at this time was about 35-40 years old (1850-1900). It's now about 81 for women. With much thanks to the female doctors, scientists, teachers, businesswomen, and other hard working females (who are also mothers and wives).

 

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

I have a friend who remembers her mother's flyswatter.  Seems that before they were plastic, they were a piece of metal window screen with a stitched on paper edge binding,  When the edging eventually came off you were left with a piece of window screen with sharp poke-y wire edges on a metal handle.

She remembers her mom using the swatter side for the quick leg hits and then the wire handle for the serious discipline.  She says her mother kept that wire fly swatter for years and years, even after the plastic ones came out because, in her mother words ......"it really stings and you kids know I mean business."

I've been wondering how old Lori was in her memory of her mother fly swatting her.  Her recollection is very detailed so I  have to think she was older than 4 or 5.  Is it possible Lori was still being physically disciplined at 9, 10, 11 or even older?

[Hisey]

2 hours ago, mango_fandango said:

My mother became a SAHM when she had me. It was her choice. Dad thankfully earns a decent amount and we live in a fairly middle-class area. He bought our house outright back in 1996 when it was just over £325k. Now worth around £2m 21 years later (yep, we moved the day after my first birthday and have stayed since). A few years ago she got a TEFL (teaching English as a foreign language) qualification, volunteered at a refugee centre for a while, and briefly offered herself as a tutor although she hasn't done this for a while. 

I recently graduated from university and am naturally looking at jobs. Because of the way I am (suspected ASD, waiting for an appointment for a diagnosis) I would probably do best in a full-time job, where my day is structured and I know what I'm supposed to be doing when. Even if a potential partner/husband were to earn enough so that I didn't have to work, I probably would. Because that's what many women do; they want to be able to earn their own money rather than have to rely on someone else. According to people like Lori, men are supposed to want a wife who stays at home and who is financially dependent... when actually I reckon many men actually want a woman who is independent and earns her own money. Emotional and financial dependence isn't a very attractive trait. Fundie women may be allowed "businesses" like selling trinkets/modest clothing/piano lessons or whatever, but they don't really make enough money to live off.

Although I'm a SAHM, I actually do better and am happier when my day is structured, too. That's been one of my struggles.

BTW, just because someone is a SAHM doesn't not mean she is financially dependent on her husband, or even depending solely on her husband's earnings. People's finances are complex. Some SAHMs have established themselves professionally before they had kids, and before marriage, and have their own nest egg. I am not sure if I would've become a SAHM if I hadn't made good investments in the past that allowed me to feel (and be) independent. But that's just me. Given my past (horrible controlling father who manipulated with money), I needed some $$ of my own. It cracks me up when people assume I am "depending on his money" because in difficult years it has been my own nest egg that have allowed us to survive with our head above water.

[louisa05]

Thoughts for Lori for the day: 

On all egalitarian marriages failing: Data please. You don't get to just say that unless you can prove it. And I'm guessing you can't. Considering there was a point when evangelicals had a higher divorce rate than the general population, I'm going to guess the data would not actually be on your side. 

On the commenters on the women must not work posts: The ones bragging about husbands who work multiple jobs (and "odd jobs in between" one bragged!) just to pay the bills so they can stay home, how is that something to brag about? How does that make you anything but a shitty lazy person? Letting your spouse be overworked because you think God told you never to get a paying job is not something to be proud of, it is selfish. 

On housework making women healthier: First problem, your little doodle quote is from a time period when workplace safety didn't exist. So, yes, working in sweatshops and 19th C factories was bad for health--for the men, women and children who had to do it. But most of your audience of American women are not going to be getting jobs in sweatshops or other dangerous workplaces. As for the health benefits of housework, a google search shows the jury is out. One study a few years ago showed that women whose partners do 35-65% of the household chores are healthier and have better sex lives--particularly more frequent sex. Since you preach about the necessity of frequent sex, Lori, then you should be advocating that men help with the housework as that seems to be how they can guarantee more. 

 

[mango_fandango]

@Hisey fair enough, that's a good point actually. My mother didn't earn much when she was working. She did get a degree but hadn't been particularly academic at school and wasn't really the type for a high-flying professional career. Fundie women would be entirely financially dependent, because they would receive a sub-par SOTDRT education and wouldn't go to college (not an accredited one anyhow) and wouldn't be allowed to get a job. It's different for everyone though. 

@louisa05 I bet these fundie women would claim that the men wouldn't allow them to get a job even if they wanted to. 

[AlwaysDiscerning]

Where to start!

            GT says:    
        September 23, 2017 at 8:07 am

        Trey, I’m really uncomfortable with how anti-woman your comments usually are. Yes, no doubt many (most, perhaps) Christian women are living in rebellion to God’s design in marriage and are a big pain to live with I’m sure. But both men and women are to blame for the state of things today, not just women. The men cannot continue to sit by and do nothing. That is actually the bigger problem, I believe. They are the God-ordained head of the household whether or not their wives like it. Who did God call out first after the fall? Adam. He was cursed not only for eating the fruit, but for following his wife’s lead. Today men continue to do a huge disservice to their marriages and children by allowing their wives to walk all over them. They need to step up to the plate.
        When the men “give up” as you put it, guess what? They are no longer living in obedience to God and will be held accountable for the demise of their households (the women will certainly be held accountable for their personal choices too, but the men to an even greater degree because of their leadership position).
        Reply
            Ken says:    
            September 23, 2017 at 2:22 pm

            GT, Trey is one of those men who has not given up, but trying to hold a wife accountable who is rebellious and is like trying to ride a bucking bronco. She will eventually throw off any accountability if she wants to with many excuses, and most tend to then blame their husband as being controlling.

            I agree with you that it is epidemic out there, even in the Christian world that one or both of the spouses are not following God’s design for marriage. If God had given us an “equal marriage” to strive for many more marriages would be blown up. Instead to tell husbands to sacrificially love and live with their wives in an understand way, and wives to win their disobedient husbands by their chaste, respectful and godly behavior. Do you see it? God’s prescription for a marriage puts its success squarely on the godly spouse to do the right thing, even when the other spouse does not do their part.

            But in my experience and Lori’s, we have seen a shift from Christian husbands being the primary problem of marriages… When they were aloof and involved with family, controlling and mean at times, stingy with the checkbook, and had the attitude, “Hey I am working hard at work to pay the bills so don’t bug me.” I can’t think of one Christian man I know who does that now.

            Now the epidemic is Christian wives whose expectations have been through the roof. They are often disrespectful, certainly not submissive and they want to not be “equal partners” but do what they want most of the day. The basics of taking care of the kids gets done, but many moms are too busy on Facebook at social media, Bible Study and who knows what else to have the home picked up when Dad arrives home or have food on the table. Sex is given when they want, and if they feel like it, and a husband is said to be selfish for expecting anything from his wife…

            I wish I could say this is an exaggeration, but there are many husbands who feel they are living in marriages like this, dirty homes, and few dinners made, all because their wife is too busy. And they can’t figure out what it is they are doing. Recently, a husband told me his wife teaches school from 8-3 and comes home and vegs in front of the tv. It is he and his older daughters who clean the home and get dinner ready as she is too tired. He wants her home, but she wants to work, but has little to give the home.

            Why? Selfishness. Self seeking is not just a wife’s issue as it does go both ways, but unless a wife is open to correction and a husband’s coaching, all that seems to result is a war… and then the husband is faced with one choice. Either stay at war with his wife or seek peace by allowing her to stay in control. God’s way is first headship… but when a wife refuses to follow, and a husband has done his best to try and lead, he now is left with choosing peace, even when he knows it is not best for his marriage. Hoping and praying, sometimes trying again to lead, that some day his wife will do marriage God’s way with him.
            Reply

Jane says:    
September 22, 2017 at 1:39 pm

Ken, are you saying that women who divorce have BPD? My understanding was that BPD is found in only a tiny percentage of the Population. I would value your opinion
Reply

    Ken says:    
    September 23, 2017 at 2:59 pm

    No, I would not say most women who get divorced have BPD, but it is becoming epidemic. It certainly is one of the root causes of struggling Christian marriages where the husbands are godly loving men, and their wives are very difficult.

    Most likely BPD is the result of the current busy lifestyles where working moms, or non-working moms who do not invest love in their children. Feeling unloved is the root of the problem as bitterness is covered up with the walls of fear and self-defense, no longer allowing any relationships to bond properly.

    My understanding is that about 8% of the population is either BPD or Bipolar. The vast majority of the BPD are women (80%) and vast majority of the Bipolar are men (80%). It makes sense that men would externalize their pain and women more internalize their pain.

    BPD affects 5.9% of adults (about 14 million Americans) at some time in their life
    http://www.borderlinepersonalitydisorder.com/what-is-bpd/bpd-overview/

    Here’s the problem with the 5.9% stat. First research is generally far behind the times (10-20 years); and second, many or most with BPD type symptoms don’t seek help; and third, many do not have all the symptoms of BPD, but they have 2-3 of the major symptoms, especially hypersensitivity, anger/bitterness and the inability to bond in relationships, believing that they will be abandoned. This thought of abandonment actually causes the person to push relationships away.

It’s a sad world when pain begets pain. BPD only becomes a disease after the root of sin takes hold of a person and maps their brain in way that it cannot process emotions correctly. Bipolar may have other organic causes, but both result devastating relationships, and are becoming more prevalent in this new age, that many think is so much better. Better in some ways, even as it is devastating families… as pain begets pain.

[lilwriter85]

 

39 minutes ago, mango_fandango said:

@Hisey fair enough, that's a good point actually. My mother didn't earn much when she was working. She did get a degree but hadn't been particularly academic at school and wasn't really the type for a high-flying professional career. Fundie women would be entirely financially dependent, because they would receive a sub-par SOTDRT education and wouldn't go to college (not an accredited one anyhow) and wouldn't be allowed to get a job. It's different for everyone though. 

 

This is one of big differences with most fundie type SAHMs and SAHMs of different backgrounds. I have known several SAHMs who are similar to what Hisey described. They worked before becoming SAHMs and had money saved up or other investments. 

Some of the fundie SAHMs that have been discussed on FJ did not receive any education or vocational training past high school level. The ones who married at 19 or in their early 20s might have had very little money of their own prior to entering marriage especially if they had fundie parents who did not allow them to have jobs as teens.

Not all SAHM/one income  households are the same. Lori is very different from many of her legumpers who have posted about their money struggles on her blog and FB.  There are one income households where the breadwinners makes much more than Ken Alexander.  The only types of deeply religious SAHMs that can relate to Lori are the women whose husbands have higher paying white collar jobs or have very successful businesses and maybe fewer kids. Lori would never really be able to relate to someone like Kelly C., or crazy Jessica/Latisha from Idaho.

 

[fundamentallyfearless]

I JUST CAN'T EVEN WITH KEN'S ASTOUNDING IGNORANCE ABOUT MENTAL ILLNESS. LORI'S TOO. THESE PEOPLE ARE SO DEEP IN A PIT OF DENIAL AND HYPOCRISY THAT YOU COULD FIT A WHOLE INFINITE BOOK MADE FROM THEIR LIES INTO IT AND THEN STILL HAVE ROOM FOR THEIR EGOS. UGH.

[EmiGirl]

Oh my bad. When he said BPD I thought he meant bipolar disorder. I'm a dumbass. 

[Hisey]

When challenged, I see Ken did a quick google search to learn about BPD. I tend to doubt he had all this information just sitting around in his brain.

Well, Ken, if only 6% of the population has BPD (and therefore are bad, divorce-causing people), what does that say about your clientele? Sounds like most of the godly husbands who seek you out for help have wives with BPD. And here you've been saying the problem rests with "most" women! Ken owes an apology to the rest of womankind.

Some of those 6% are men, of course. Does Lori and Ken offer any help for the women suffering from husbands with BPD?

Actually, BPD is a very serious mental illness. I hate to see Ken throwing this label around, diagnosing any woman he hears about who is not godly enough for him.

[Curious]

are they talking about bipolar or borderline personality disorder?  Ken knows about as much about mental health (and most of the other things he pontificates on)  as I know astrophysics.

I wonder how many women work for Ken.  It seems like he's part of the problem if he's hiring women to work for him.

 

[fundamentallyfearless]

46 minutes ago, Hisey said:

When challenged, I see Ken did a quick google search to learn about BPD. I tend to doubt he had all this information just sitting around in his brain.

Well, Ken, if only 6% of the population has BPD (and therefore are bad, divorce-causing people), what does that say about your clientele? Sounds like most of the godly husbands who seek you out for help have wives with BPD. And here you've been saying the problem rests with "most" women! Ken owes an apology to the rest of womankind.

Some of those 6% are men, of course. Does Lori and Ken offer any help for the women suffering from husbands with BPD?

Actually, BPD is a very serious mental illness. I hate to see Ken throwing this label around, diagnosing any woman he hears about who is not godly enough for him.

They throw around labels, misinformation, and hatred like confetti.

[AlwaysDiscerning]

These will be deleted soon. 

[AlwaysDiscerning]

I love this from Ken. 

Quote

No, I would not say most women who get divorced have BPD, but it is becoming epidemic.

Not most but yet its an epidemic at the same time! What the...

Quote

The basics of taking care of the kids gets done, but many moms are too busy on Facebook at social media, Bible Study and who knows what else to have the home picked up when Dad arrives home or have food on the table. Sex is given when they want, and if they feel like it, and a husband is said to be selfish for expecting anything from his wife…

Too busy on facebook? Just like your wife, Ken. She sets the example for the young women she mentors. An ugh Bible study, yeah what a terrible place for women to spend time at. These men put themselves being served over women studying the bible. And selfish for expecting anything from the wife? Lori's post that went viral was all about how women shouldn't have expectations of their husbands. Shouldn't expect them to help with housework. Likewise that cuts both ways. Husbands shouldn't expect much from their wives either. 

[AlwaysDiscerning]

Yup, those screenshots I just provided are gone now. A mere 10 mins later. Lori is up at 4:30 am or so deleting.  That is why the proverbs woman was early to rise...lot of comments to delete and censoring. 

[Joyce]

From the Facebook chat room paraphrased:

Lori, Ken and the grandchildren were outside for a few hours walking along the beach and playing in the surf. Many days, Lori went out and lay on her tummy with very few clothes on (when only Ken is at home) and got some sun for about 20 minutes.

[Seahorse Wrangler]

It looks like Jilly N Anthony has been banned.

[saintmom]

44 minutes ago, Joyce said:

From the Facebook chat room paraphrased:

Lori, Ken and the grandchildren were outside for a few hours walking along the beach and playing in the surf. Many days, Lori went out and lay on her tummy with very few clothes on (when only Ken is at home) and got some sun for about 20 minutes.

Why does this visual make me throw up in my mouth a little bit?

[AlwaysDiscerning]

2 minutes ago, Seahorse Wrangler said:

It looks like Jilly N Anthony has been banned.

How can you tell? I thought Lori would have figured that out a while ago by seeing Jilly's comments on the undeleted page. 

[Loveday]

16 minutes ago, Seahorse Wrangler said:

It looks like Jilly N Anthony has been banned.

I had a feeling this would happen, but it still makes me angry. 

[Seahorse Wrangler]

Just now, Loveday said:

I had a feeling this would happen, but it still makes me angry. 

I'm surprised she's not been banned before. Jilly was how I found Lori and then I stumbled across her here.

14 minutes ago, AlwaysDiscerning said:

How can you tell? I thought Lori would have figured that out a while ago by seeing Jilly's comments on the undeleted page. 

Jilly asked the undeleted page how she could tell if she'd been banned. When I checked TW fb page , Jilly's avatar had gone. I used to see it because I'm a Fb friend of Jilly.