Erin and Chad Paine 2: The higher the hair...

[LawsonBatesEgo]

I can't say I'm surprised - they are pretty deep in the KoolAid and seem to genuinely enjoy being parents. I just hope that they keep their family at a size where they can continue to enjoy each child as an individual person without getting to a point where Brooklyn and Everly are raising and potty training little siblings. 

[marmalade]

13 hours ago, AtlanticTug said:

Yeah, generally they would all do best to space out the kids more. Multiple studies have looked at "ideal" spacing and it appears to be 27 months, which is close to what Anna Duggar is getting but much longer than many other fundies.

Erin's treatment will depend on her doctor - there is still variation here as thrombophilias are tied to infertility/loss but this whole area is best described as a bit of witchcraft and so you have variation between clinics and doctors themselves. I would say that the vast majority will prescribe low dose (81mg) aspirin + Fragmin/Lovenox/Clexane (different brands of the same low molecular weight heparin) to be administered up until birth. Women with planned c-sections will be taken off a few days in advance. MTHFR will require her to take a different prenatal vitamin/supplement, since she'd need folate and not folic acid. Some Doctors will skip this and give Metformin + B12 instead. Really aggressive ones may add steroids in the first 10 weeks of pregnancy, but this seems to be most common in IVF patients. It sounds like a lot but it's really not that bad, leaves you with a horribly bruised belly and the injections get harder and harder closer to delivery if you are a thin person whose belly is stretched and not much fat under the skin. She may need to continue with the heparin for 6 weeks post-delivery as well, again this depends on the particular clotting factor.

I remember Erin commenting with her Carson pregnancy that they would stop heparin a certain number of weeks before due date. Since Carson came about 4 weeks early, I don't know if they had stopped treatment at that point. I think no. Since Brooklyn was a planned delivery, until she came a couple days earlier than expected, they would have been able to get her off the heparin since the dates of planned delivery and actual delivery were so close. It's been a long time since I looked into these details, but I do rememeber that Brooklyn was planned, so all would be safe in her delivery. For all we know, Erin may have had a transfusion after Carson's rough entry into the world. The Bateses don't generally like to show too much honesty (see the Whitney parent switch) if it makes them look like they make the questionable/bad mistakes that we all make in life at one point or another. 

All that said, since Erin has an established pattern of going early, they can go ahead and plan all future deliveries. If she goes closer to term, I guess they put her back on the heparin, but for how long? She has no predictor beyond 36+ weeks. 

Even under the care of Dr. Vick, I still worry. To those with more knowledge: if they plan for another 36 week delivery, but she goes into labor earlier, say 34 weeks, is there danger? Carson came so fast that he can't really be used as an example. 

I hope my paranoia amounts to nothing, but with the risk factors and propensity to go early, I can't help but be concerned for her. 

[Timetraveler]

18 minutes ago, marmalade said:

I remember Erin commenting with her Carson pregnancy that they would stop heparin a certain number of weeks before due date. Since Carson came about 4 weeks early, I don't know if they had stopped treatment at that point. I think no. Since Brooklyn was a planned delivery, until she came a couple days earlier than expected, they would have been able to get her off the heparin since the dates of planned delivery and actual delivery were so close. It's been a long time since I looked into these details, but I do rememeber that Brooklyn was planned, so all would be safe in her delivery. For all we know, Erin may have had a transfusion after Carson's rough entry into the world. The Bateses don't generally like to show too much honesty (see the Whitney parent switch) if it makes them look like they make the questionable/bad mistakes that we all make in life at one point or another. 

All that said, since Erin has an established pattern of going early, they can go ahead and plan all future deliveries. If she goes closer to term, I guess they put her back on the heparin, but for how long? She has no predictor beyond 36+ weeks. 

Even under the care of Dr. Vick, I still worry. To those with more knowledge: if they plan for another 36 week delivery, but she goes into labor earlier, say 34 weeks, is there danger? Carson came so fast that he can't really be used as an example. 

I hope my paranoia amounts to nothing, but with the risk factors and propensity to go early, I can't help but be concerned for her. 

Well, I don't really know, but I was born with 32 weeks (940 grams) and I was and am perfectly fine and healthy!

[VelociRapture]

5 hours ago, marmalade said:

I remember Erin commenting with her Carson pregnancy that they would stop heparin a certain number of weeks before due date. Since Carson came about 4 weeks early, I don't know if they had stopped treatment at that point. I think no. Since Brooklyn was a planned delivery, until she came a couple days earlier than expected, they would have been able to get her off the heparin since the dates of planned delivery and actual delivery were so close. It's been a long time since I looked into these details, but I do rememeber that Brooklyn was planned, so all would be safe in her delivery. For all we know, Erin may have had a transfusion after Carson's rough entry into the world. The Bateses don't generally like to show too much honesty (see the Whitney parent switch) if it makes them look like they make the questionable/bad mistakes that we all make in life at one point or another. 

All that said, since Erin has an established pattern of going early, they can go ahead and plan all future deliveries. If she goes closer to term, I guess they put her back on the heparin, but for how long? She has no predictor beyond 36+ weeks. 

Even under the care of Dr. Vick, I still worry. To those with more knowledge: if they plan for another 36 week delivery, but she goes into labor earlier, say 34 weeks, is there danger? Carson came so fast that he can't really be used as an example. 

I hope my paranoia amounts to nothing, but with the risk factors and propensity to go early, I can't help but be concerned for her. 

I’m not sure about risks for Erin. The complication with Carson was a placental abruption though and had nothing to do with her clotting disorder from what I could tell (it’s also why he was born so fast.) I’m guessing Dr. Vick will be preparing for the possibility of another abruption, as well as planning to induce labor early (like they planned with Brooklyn) - based off what @AtlanticTug has shared, I would guess that would mean she’d be scheduled to stop her medicine shortly before that. Given her history of going early I think they’d stick with the plan to induce early rather than wait for labor to start naturally later on - so I don’t think that’s a cause for concern.

I personally don’t think we should worry too much as long as she continues getting good prenatal care and she chooses a hospital delivery. It will drastically reduce the chances of anything going seriously wrong and immediate help can be given if anything does go seriously wrong. 

As for Everly, my daughter was a 34 weeker. I don’t know what complications might possible occur due to Erin’s condition (if any.) There are definitely complications that can happen with a preemie - Stevie Wonder was born at 34 weeks and is blind as a result of his premature birth - but it’s definitely not a given. We’re very fortunate that our daughter doesn’t appear to have any issues so far, other than lagging behind slightly on some developmental milestones. Both Carson and Brooklyn were late term preemies who didn’t need NICU stays and appear to be doing perfectly fine. I would assume they’d proceed as they’ve done before and that they’d know a NICU stay or complications were a possibility.

ETA: I should point out that being a bit behind on development is completely normal for preemies. In general, however many weeks early a baby is is how long they have to catch up. My daughter was six weeks early, meaning she gets an extra six weeks to hit milestones before it’s considered an issue. 

[LawsonBatesEgo]

If nothing else, at least Erin is showing a smart approach to her pregnancies in light of her medical issues - she is consulting with medical professionals and she isn't trying for risky homebirths. She knows she needs some extra medical attention throughout her pregnancy and is making sure she gets it. I'll give her props for that since some fundies are far more stupid on this matter.....

[VBOY9977]

6 hours ago, Timetraveler said:

Well, I don't really know, but I was born with 32 weeks (940 grams) and I was and am perfectly fine and healthy!

I was a 29 weeker, weighted 900 grams and I was in the NICU for 2 Months. I do have health issues regarding me being a preemie (my umbilical cord shut down so I was malnourished in the womb and as a result I have always been underweight) .  I think it all depends on why you were born early.

[Fascinated]

I don’t inherently have an issue with the Paines having their babies close together, presuming that medically they got the go-ahead.  I wanted mine close together for several reasons.  My oldest two are 24 months apart, and I had an almost seven month pregnancy in between. My last child is 22 months younger than our middle son.  But, having lost a child, and there being no guarantees, we stopped having babies at that point.  I hope that Chad and Erin do, too. It will be interesting to see if they do.

[AtlanticTug]

8 hours ago, marmalade said:

I remember Erin commenting with her Carson pregnancy that they would stop heparin a certain number of weeks before due date.

That would actually be fairly unusual as most people are kept on Fragmin/Lovenox until about 24-48 hours before birth. If you have a true clotting disorder then discontinuing it a month early would be really strange since it could result in stillbirth. Maybe there is a reason she stopped so early but in my experience this really isn't the norm.

Quote

Even under the care of Dr. Vick, I still worry. To those with more knowledge: if they plan for another 36 week delivery, but she goes into labor earlier, say 34 weeks, is there danger? Carson came so fast that he can't really be used as an example. 

I hope my paranoia amounts to nothing, but with the risk factors and propensity to go early, I can't help but be concerned for her. 

The issue with heparin is that they won't give you an epidural or spinal within 24 hours of administering a dose. So worst case is you give yourself the shot in the morning, go into labour half an hour later. You're then either giving birth without those drugs or having a general anaesthetic c-section. Almost everybody who I know in this situation had a planned c-section or a planned induction in advance of the due date to avoid this issue. They could then get off the heparin in time. If she goes into labour early, I imagine she'd have her cervix monitored and BPPs/NSTs weekly after 28 weeks or so, that way it's at least somewhat predictable if things start to move along.

[Hisey]

On 10/18/2017 at 1:59 PM, Feministe9000 said:

And I truly believe she is much much MUCH sharper and smarter than she lets on, and i'm sure this was always the plan. Maybe Alyssa too.
I'm looking forward to seeing where this all goes, the next few years will be the biggest indicators of their true direction.

 

Really? I find it hard to believe that a 19-year old girl--and one with a disrupted home life at that--knew EXACTLY what she wanted in a family and set out to concoct a deceptive plan to fool some fundies. All to get Zach Bates. Why not just get a normally-raised guy?

It seems much more likely that she was anxious to please and tried on the fundie lifestyle. After a while, she got married to Zach and grew in confidence. Maybe wearing skirts was uncomfortable to her, or impractical with a baby. Maybe she and Zach started realizing they were adults and could make their own decisions. Maybe when they found the Bates did not reject them when they made a few "bold" decisions (like pants wearing) so they made a few more. Maybe Whitney found she did not like Kelly and Gil and didn't really care what they thought anymore.

I say this, and I don't even like Whitney that much. I don't like the way she dresses up her daughter, and she seems so desperate to be perfect. Understandable, perhaps, but off-putting. I think she has expensive tastes that couldnt be met by Zach's salary, so they decided together that she should go back to work. And good for her. I don't like her, and it's not a decision I'd make with two babies, it seems like a reasonable solution if she wants more money.

[Feministe9000]

13 minutes ago, Hisey said:

Really? I find it hard to believe that a 19-year old girl--and one with a disrupted home life at that--knew EXACTLY what she wanted in a family and set out to concoct a deceptive plan to fool some fundies. All to get Zach Bates. Why not just get a normally-raised guy?

It seems much more likely that she was anxious to please and tried on the fundie lifestyle. After a while, she got married to Zach and grew in confidence. Maybe wearing skirts was uncomfortable to her, or impractical with a baby. Maybe she and Zach started realizing they were adults and could make their own decisions. Maybe when they found the Bates did not reject them when they made a few "bold" decisions (like pants wearing) so they made a few more. Maybe Whitney found she did not like Kelly and Gil and didn't really care what they thought anymore.

I say this, and I don't even like Whitney that much. I don't like the way she dresses up her daughter, and she seems so desperate to be perfect. Understandable, perhaps, but off-putting. I think she has expensive tastes that couldnt be met by Zach's salary, so they decided together that she should go back to work. And good for her. I don't like her, and it's not a decision I'd make with two babies, it seems like a reasonable solution if she wants more money.

I agree with the fact Whitney was very young, impressionable, sheltered and came from a troubled and disrupted background.
I'm not saying that Whitney knew EXACTLY what she wanted at all....I think you misunderstand me.
I'm saying that after trying out skirts and uber modesty for awhile, among other things to do with Zach's upbringing to please his family, she started to figure out what she wanted. I think having a daughter herself may have really started the cogs turning a bit faster. But none of us will ever really know.
When I say I think Whitney is much sharper and smarter than she let's on, I mean that because she did medical billing while working at Sonic when she met Zach, and while having her two babies at home as a young wife and mother, worked hard and put in the time to get a real estate license/certification.
She went after what she wanted, and I respect that. She is clearly doesn't walk around like some of the fundie women we have seen with a head full of candy floss, under that sweet lipgloss smile, she RUNS that household and their little family, and I truly think Zach is more than happy to let her.
At least (I believe) he sees her as a partner, and I think they will be all the better for it, to be young and both working, it will shape them and give them perspective they may not have gotten if Whit had just stayed at home, not studied anything else, and raised babies and made dinner and called it a day.
Whitney is clearly a go getter, be it her health and fitness, her studying to get a job, taking care of her kids, she has thrown ALL of her energy into improving her life and the life of the family overall. At least in her sheltered fundie world, she is dipping a TOE or even a foot into the real world, and Zach is along for the ride.

....with the help of UP! TV of course!

So i'll reiterate, I did not mean to insinuate she came up with some deceptive plan to fool Zach's family, but more that she has started to really pave her own way, and with Zach by her side, she has been given the room for that development.

 

[LillyP]

I know we're getting off on a tangent about Whitney in the Erin thread...but I think the main difference with Zach/Whitney as opposed to everyone else is Zach's super mainstream job as a cop. I could be way off in my thinking, but knowing as many cops as I do there is a comrade within the law enforcement community and LEO wives are very tight knit. I think being around other worldly people who "good" opened their eyes a bit. I'm not saying their religious beliefs aren't bat-shit crazy...but they do seem to be more open to real world experiences and being less sheltered than they once were.

I think when it comes to the medical stuff Erin is obviously very knowledgeable about what she needs to do having been through it all. I don't think we'll ever see the day she attempts a home birth because she herself has said that she is very very pro an epidural for delivery.

[HurricaneBells]

15 hours ago, marmalade said:

I remember Erin commenting with her Carson pregnancy that they would stop heparin a certain number of weeks before due date. 

This episode was actually on tv randomly last night. I dont remember her saying anything but I recall Dr Vick said up until she went into labour. I had forgotten how fast Carsons birth was!

[DugFan]

On 10/18/2017 at 2:19 PM, JermajestyDuggar said:

Since Whitney didn't grow up fundie I really don't expect her to never use birth control or pop out 12+ kids. She wanted Zachary so she played the part in order to please his parents. She's now bsck to wearing fairly mainstream clothing most of the time. She's working part time outside of the house. These fundies know there's a difference between a girl who grew up fundie and a girl who didn't. I assume they will have a larger than average family and may attempt to homeschool but they aren't going to follow the exact same path as Erin and Chad. 

I guess I'm a little behind.  Can someone fill me in on her wearing mainstream clothing and working outside the home?

[JermajestyDuggar]

37 minutes ago, DugFan said:

I guess I'm a little behind.  Can someone fill me in on her wearing mainstream clothing and working outside the home?

She works part time in realty and she wears regular clothing. Like jeans, leggings, sleeveless shirts, etc.

[HuggleMonster]

We had an influx of Everlys after Channing and Jenna Tatum had their daughter. Surprisingly there are current 2 set to start kindergarten at my kids school next year. I say surprisingly because it’s rare that there’s 2 kids with the same name there, let alone 2 with a unique name like that. 

[LawsonBatesEgo]

15 hours ago, Hisey said:

Really? I find it hard to believe that a 19-year old girl--and one with a disrupted home life at that--knew EXACTLY what she wanted in a family and set out to concoct a deceptive plan to fool some fundies. All to get Zach Bates. Why not just get a normally-raised guy?

It seems much more likely that she was anxious to please and tried on the fundie lifestyle. After a while, she got married to Zach and grew in confidence. Maybe wearing skirts was uncomfortable to her, or impractical with a baby. Maybe she and Zach started realizing they were adults and could make their own decisions. Maybe when they found the Bates did not reject them when they made a few "bold" decisions (like pants wearing) so they made a few more. Maybe Whitney found she did not like Kelly and Gil and didn't really care what they thought anymore.

I say this, and I don't even like Whitney that much. I don't like the way she dresses up her daughter, and she seems so desperate to be perfect. Understandable, perhaps, but off-putting. I think she has expensive tastes that couldnt be met by Zach's salary, so they decided together that she should go back to work. And good for her. I don't like her, and it's not a decision I'd make with two babies, it seems like a reasonable solution if she wants more money.

I can't even fault her for choosing to go back to work because she would rather have a more comfortable lifestyle with luxuries than scrimp by to stay home with her children. That's entirely her choice. If a nicer house/wardrobe/more holidays/whatever is her motivation, at least she is working a job to pay for the things she wants instead of taking a page out of the 'Gil Bates Grifting Playbook' or pressuring Zach to work a ridiculous amount of overtime to pay for them. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

4 hours ago, LawsonBatesEgo said:

I can't even fault her for choosing to go back to work because she would rather have a more comfortable lifestyle with luxuries than scrimp by to stay home with her children. That's entirely her choice. If a nicer house/wardrobe/more holidays/whatever is her motivation, at least she is working a job to pay for the things she wants instead of taking a page out of the 'Gil Bates Grifting Playbook' or pressuring Zach to work a ridiculous amount of overtime to pay for them. 

It's interesting because when they only have a few kids, fundie women always seem to want to stay at home and it seems to be their choice. But when they have 10 or 12 there isn't a choice any longer unless you want to put them in public school and have day care from family for the little ones. They are mostly trapped when they have a large brood. 

[HereticHick]

I like the name Everly, and I won't be surprised if Chad and Erin haven't already purchased one of the fixer-uppers shown on the show and the Bates boys & Chad have been working on it. [Except for Lawson, who is too busy taking selfies on horseback, accessorized with a baby, biceps, headphones and a kitten]

 

[Hisey]

8 hours ago, LawsonBatesEgo said:

I can't even fault her for choosing to go back to work because she would rather have a more comfortable lifestyle with luxuries than scrimp by to stay home with her children. That's entirely her choice. If a nicer house/wardrobe/more holidays/whatever is her motivation, at least she is working a job to pay for the things she wants instead of taking a page out of the 'Gil Bates Grifting Playbook' or pressuring Zach to work a ridiculous amount of overtime to pay for them. 

I agree! It is the mature choice. Much better than pimping out her cute kids, or inviting TV cameras into her home.  And if she wants more luxurious stuff, so what? I don't understand this fight to be the poorest that fundy women engage in. 

 

[Hisey]

23 hours ago, Feministe9000 said:

I agree with the fact Whitney was very young, impressionable, sheltered and came from a troubled and disrupted background.
I'm not saying that Whitney knew EXACTLY what she wanted at all....I think you misunderstand me.
I'm saying that after trying out skirts and uber modesty for awhile, among other things to do with Zach's upbringing to please his family, she started to figure out what she wanted. I think having a daughter herself may have really started the cogs turning a bit faster. But none of us will ever really know.
When I say I think Whitney is much sharper and smarter than she let's on, I mean that because she did medical billing while working at Sonic when she met Zach, and while having her two babies at home as a young wife and mother, worked hard and put in the time to get a real estate license/certification.
She went after what she wanted, and I respect that. She is clearly doesn't walk around like some of the fundie women we have seen with a head full of candy floss, under that sweet lipgloss smile, she RUNS that household and their little family, and I truly think Zach is more than happy to let her.
At least (I believe) he sees her as a partner, and I think they will be all the better for it, to be young and both working, it will shape them and give them perspective they may not have gotten if Whit had just stayed at home, not studied anything else, and raised babies and made dinner and called it a day.
Whitney is clearly a go getter, be it her health and fitness, her studying to get a job, taking care of her kids, she has thrown ALL of her energy into improving her life and the life of the family overall. At least in her sheltered fundie world, she is dipping a TOE or even a foot into the real world, and Zach is along for the ride.

....with the help of UP! TV of course!

So i'll reiterate, I did not mean to insinuate she came up with some deceptive plan to fool Zach's family, but more that she has started to really pave her own way, and with Zach by her side, she has been given the room for that development.

 

Oh, I misunderstood. I certainly agree with you that she is smart and driven. I also admire how she got her RE license, works hard to exercise, and seems to be a go-getter. I don't know if she runs the household. Looking at that happy young couple, they seem to run it together, I don't see any indication that either one is the boss.

Whitney seems like she needs more in her life than just raising kids. A lot of women go back to work when their kids get older, but she started planning it when her kids were infants! Pretty unusual in the fundie world. That tells me she and Zach are going to stop at 3-4, because there is no way she can have the lifestyle she wants with 5 or more kids.

The difference I see between the Duggars and the Bates is that the men take on mainstream jobs and aren't depending on TLC or UP or their FLC. That's why I think the Bates are a healthier family. They maintain a level of independence from reality TV

[VelociRapture]

... my ovaries are rebelling against my careful plan to not get knocked up for the next year... 

[HarleyQuinn]

 Aww that's darling. I'm glad Erin doesn't try to attempt homebirths. I cannot imagine someome like Jill Dillard for example with Erin's condition.

 

[Carm_88]

That would make your ovaries pop. Carson is so sweet! 

[Carm_88]

From Erin's Instagram story!

[HarleyQuinn]

I'm sure Chad is just laughing normally but that screen grab honestly makes it looks like he's screaming internally.