Carlin and Evan 1: Front Hugging Before Courting

[singsingsing]

7 hours ago, Lulu22du said:

Yeah but she's only 19. To me she acts her age.

There's a big difference between a 15-year-old and a 19-year-old to me. Like I wouldn't expect a 19-year-old to act like a 30-year-old, but I wouldn't expect one to act like a 15-year-old, either. Unless their mind had been warped by totally unrealistic expectations about romance, they were incredibly sheltered, and starved for attention and affection. Hmmm....

[JillyO]

7 hours ago, Kelsey said:

Can I just say that the look on Bobbi's face when Gil said "no" made me feel sick? That man was devastated. Gil is an asshole.

Here's an easy fix: Don't ask the father of your grown-ass girlfriend if you're allowed to marry her like she's his property.

[BeccaGrim]

Ah but she is his property in this sick world they live in and what Bobbi is really asking about is whether or not he can take over headship of her. Unless, he's like Kristiana Miner's husband and he's really going through the motions with the intent to get her out. I don't see that.  Kristiana was in a non-fundie university. 

In case, anyone is going huh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WQy4LGUQRg

 

[neurogirl]

When my boyfriend proposed, I knew my parents wanted him to "talk to them" but neither one of us wanted him to "ask for my hand." So instead, my boyfriend asked them (and insisted on BOTH my mom and dad's presence) if he could propose...while we were on vacation with them. A little sneaky but respecting both my parents' and my wishes. I don't think less of Bobby if Tori and the parents Bates wanted him to ask.

[WhoompThereItIs]

Out of respect for my parents, I insisted my husband ask their permission to propose. After asking, my dad's first response was "why are you asking me?  It's ultimately you two's decision!" My 74 year old father is more progressive than I am y'all 

[melon]

12 hours ago, Kelsey said:

Can I just say that the look on Bobbi's face when Gil said "no" made me feel sick? That man was devastated. Gil is an asshole.

That wasn't funny,at all.It was cruel.Did you see the look on Bobby's face??He looked like he might cry.

[Kelsey]

12 hours ago, JillyO said:

Here's an easy fix: Don't ask the father of your grown-ass girlfriend if you're allowed to marry her like she's his property.

Well obviously but as long as Gil insists (or requires) that these men ask permission; he should refrain from acting like a jackass when they do so. If Bobbi was my son, I'd be going "mama bear" on him.

[HereticHick]

Sad to say, but I starting to feel more and more that the Batesseses "big news" will be that Tori and Evan have skipped the courting phase and those are engagement photos we are seeing.

[VBOY9977]

7 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

Sad to say, but I starting to feel more and more that the Batesseses "big news" will be that Tori and Evan have skipped the courting phase and those are engagement photos we are seeing.

Or maybe Evan asked Carlin to start courting shorty after West Virginia ( which was in early June) so if he proposed a little while ago they've been courting for almost 3 months, which I'm pretty sure was Both Zach's and Alyssa's courtship lengths

im thinking it's a pretty probable scenario but maybe they'll just announce courtship

[VelociRapture]

5 hours ago, HereticHick said:

Sad to say, but I starting to feel more and more that the Batesseses "big news" will be that Tori and Evan have skipped the courting phase and those are engagement photos we are seeing.

I know you meant Carlin, but I'm still laughing my ass off over here. Can you imagine Carlin's reaction if her loooooooooving babe and looooooooove of her life suddenly got engaged to her sister? 

[crazysnark]

When Tori and Bobby starting courting they had to keep it quiet for 2 months until it aired on the show, so I don't think they would have a big surprise for a courtship. The only time they do these "special announcements" is when someone is pregnant and can't hide their belly anymore. Even when Michael was engaged they announced via instagram the day after. I think either Evan and Carlin skipped courtship and are engaged or Michael is pregnant. She did write that blog post a while back about infertility and even questioning her faith because of it. In hindsight it would make sense that she wrote that after they figured out the problem or got pregnant. I find fundies don't really talk about that stuff while they are going through the hard but talk about it after it happened. I could be very wrong tho.I even remember Erin not opening up at all about her problems until she was halfway through pregnancy with Carson. We all thought she just had the one miscarriage but she actually had 3, she just didn't say anything until everything was (for the most part) fixed. 

For all we know the stupid surprise announcement could be they are having another Bates family sweepstakes. Womp womp. Be sure to tune in to small town mayor y'all. 

[seraaa]

On 9/18/2017 at 2:10 PM, hollywood said:

If there is any couple that should not get engaged/married, it's them. Too young and it shows. I just hope they give it time.

Carlin and Evan, @everyone 

[melon]

Josie,is younger than Carlin, 15 months or so,but ,actually seems more mature than Carlin.Maybe Josie is more reserved,not so loud and obnoxious.

 

[VineHeart137]

1 hour ago, melon said:

Josie,is younger than Carlin, 15 months or so,but ,actually seems more mature than Carlin.Maybe Josie is more reserved,not so loud and obnoxious.

 

I agree. Josie reminds me a lot of Alyssa. I could see her becoming a wife at 19. Like you said it could just be that Josie is just more reserved but she seems to carry herself with more dignity and maturity than Carlin or even Tori, although Tori seems to have dialed it back some since she started dating.

[QuiverDance]

On 7/27/2017 at 4:17 PM, NeverBeenKissed said:

Ugh, right? I cannot even image marrying my first boyfriend. He still lives in the same tiny town next to the tiny town I lived in. I dreamt of escaping (and did) all through high school. 

Mine doesn't. And he's very successful. But he is still a asshole!

[FundieCentral]

I also don't get offended by someone involving my parents/siblings/friends in a potential engagement. 
Call me traditional, but I want to be proposed to. I think it's sweet if the person in question asks parents/guardians/older people of trust whether they "bless the union" so to speak and whether they think that this is good timing and he's ready. 

In other words: It's easy to rush into a proposal when you're in love, and it seems like a great idea. But having people look over the couple and ensuring that such life-changing decisions aren't made without sufficient deliberation is very important. 

Now, the chattel transfer that occurs with these people is a little creepy. I'm sure Kelly or Michelle have just as valuable insight to add about the young man's suitability as Gil or Jim Bob. I know that my mother has very clear expectations for whoever will join our family But of course, one would need to think of women as full individuals for that. 

[SilverBeach]

On 9/19/2017 at 11:09 AM, WhoompThereItIs said:

Out of respect for my parents, I insisted my husband ask their permission to propose. After asking, my dad's first response was "why are you asking me?  It's ultimately you two's decision!" My 74 year old father is more progressive than I am y'all 

Serious question: How does asking for permission to propose indicate respect for your parents? Were you underage? 

[nausicaa]

13 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

Serious question: How does asking for permission to propose indicate respect for your parents? Were you underage? 

I've never understood how it's respectful either. Do adults ask their parents' permission before buying a house or taking a new job? 

[singsingsing]

I don't care what anyone else does, and if honouring tradition is important for you, go for it. If I ever get married I'm going to have my dad walk me down the aisle, because I know how happy it would make him. But he won't 'give me away'. And I think both of my parents would be baffled if a guy 'asked their permission' to marry me. I wasn't raised conservative, it's the 21st century, I'm quickly approaching 30 and I haven't lived at home in years, so it would be a bit odd to say the least.

[SilverBeach]

2 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

I don't care what anyone else does, and if honouring tradition is important for you, go for it. If I ever get married I'm going to have my dad walk me down the aisle, because I know how happy it would make him. But he won't 'give me away'. And I think both of my parents would be baffled if a guy 'asked their permission' to marry me. I wasn't raised conservative, it's the 21st century, I'm quickly approaching 30 and I haven't lived at home in years, so it would be a bit odd to say the least.

I don't care what anybody else does. Note that I didn't criticize the poster. Just want to understand. I always say to each her own. I do understand that you weren't speaking directly to me, but I want to be absolutely clear about this.

My dad was long dead before I married. If he had been alive, and if I had a wedding, I would have enjoyed some traditions with him. No giving away, but dad was a hella dancer and I would have cherished the father-daughter dance.

But that's not what I was talking about. Asking fathers/parents for permission to even propose to a woman clearly implies that the woman is not free to even hear a proposal, let alone accept or decline, without approval. She has no personal agency here.

The absence of personal agency for women is a key aspect of the fundamentalism that is generally found unacceptable here on FJ.

As such, when a member expresses a preference for such a thing, it is fair game to ask about it. Could be just traditionalism, although this was not a tradition in my frame of reference. Won't have any idea unless the poster decides to respond. Whatever, the poster could discuss more, or not. But I do think it is an appropriate discussion for FJ and could be useful, as advancing understanding usually is.

 

 

 

[singsingsing]

Just now, SilverBeach said:

But that's not what I was talking about. Asking fathers/parents for permission to even propose to a woman clearly implies that the woman is not free to even hear a proposal, let alone accept or decline, without approval. She has no personal agency here.

I get that, but I think most (non-fundie) people in this day and age follow the tradition just for the sake of tradition. It's just one of those antiquated social forms that some people still participate in because it makes them feel good for whatever reason. It seems distasteful to me, but I'm not under the illusion that most people who do it take it literally these days, and I'm not in the business of policing the decisions of other independent adults when they have no effect on anyone but themselves. The difference between fundies and other people who might have conservative or traditional views is that fundies actively try to force the rest of the world to abide by their standards. Some woman I don't know requesting that her boyfriend ask her parents for permission to marry her has no effect on me whatsoever.

I definitely never said or implied in any way that discussing (and criticizing) this subject shouldn't be allowed, though. It's totally valid. I think it's likely to piss a bunch of people off, because people understandably get offended by their actions being critiqued or misconstrued, but people can choose whether they want to discuss it or not.

[just_ordinary]

I feel like nowadays asking the parents(!) is more like a tip off. No one really needs their permission and most couples know they are heading in this direction so it is not that the women is hit totally off guard. I mean maybe you didn't expect it right now, but somewhere along the line. 

I love that my husband asked my parents, but I am not 100% sure if he actually asked/told them after I said yes already. I still wonder why they didn't express any concern as we knew each other just three months and were so young (21 and 25- we hold on to the traditional one year engagement). We were crazy in love and naive. I think they saw it was the right thing. 8 years later we are still super happy and enjoy the development/ growth we make over time.

My father walked me down the aisle. I see it less as giving away but more of a visual transition from one core family to a new one (your own).

There are hundreds of different traditions/views just pick what feels right for you and your partner. It is like taste. Sometimes it's useless to argue as their is no satisfying answer.

[VelociRapture]

My husband wanted to speak with my parents before proposing to me. He felt it was important partly because he is kind of traditional in some ways. But more importantly, he wasn't just looking to join with me in marriage - he was looking to make my family his own and make his family mine. For him, personally, he wouldn't have felt right taking such a big step without involving my parents somehow. He didn't even need me to request that my mother be included either - that was just naturally what he thought was appropriate and right. 

So they met over coffee, he informed them he was going to propose, and they happily welcomed him to the family. No permission given, but he feels happy that he handled it that way. Then my parents suggested ways to propose. My dad suggested giving me a puppy with the ring. I'm still a little bitter he didn't go with that idea. (I did get my puppy eventually... but I had to wait over two years. Not cool dude. )

[nvmbr02]

I married my first boyfriend and he spoke with my dad before he actually proposed, though we had already decided to get married and privately already had the church reserved. I don't think husband actually asked my dad permission, he more informed him he was going to propose, I know my dad talked to me the next day (I lived out of state and happened to be visiting my dad when the conversation happened)  My dad also walked me down the aisle and "gave me away".  I liked the traditional aspect of it and both my husband and I are mostly traditional. I didn't have a father daughter dance though since I hate dancing and hate being the center of attention so we did a combined father/daughter and mother/son dance. I was also only 21 and hadn't finished college (though I was enlisted in the military at the time)

No regrets. We have been married for 15 years, together for 18. That being said, I don't expect my daughters to ask for their father's permission (or mine) to get married. I really don't think there is anything wrong with following old school traditions for the sake of following tradition if you choose to, The sad thing is when these girls don't have a choice. 

[mstee]

My husband and I had talked about marriage and our families knew that was what we wanted so getting engaged wasn't a huge surprise to anyone. I did tell my husband though that I didn't want to him to ask my dad. Knowing my dad he'd say "don't ask me, ask her!" And I'd already told my parents not to expect a formal question. My mom was the one who was upset until I asked her if she understood the whole premise of getting permission and why I was personally against it. She said she'd never thought about it that way but "its tradition so it's nice" (this is the same lady who, when i declared I was a feminist as a young child, asked if I never intended on shaving my armpits and legs cause that's what feminists do? And now identifies as a feminist cause she got the memo on the meaning). She did get to see the ring though ahead of the proposal and knew when we was going to ask. Which I was kind of bummed about because I was hoping to surprise them with the news. When I got married, she said she wanted one thing (lies! haha) and that was to walk me down the aisle with my dad. I told her that I'd already planned on it, so meltdown crises averted.