Dillards 35: Waiting on People Magazine

[SapphireSlytherin]

Maybe she had him for 10 days just to potty-train him, assuming he's not already trained? When my mom kept GryffindorDisappointment (at 19 months) for a week while I cleared quarters, she had Gryff going on the potty, which worked great until I was holding her on the toilet and she slipped into the bowl... I laughed and laughed... She didn't pee on the toilet again for two more months.  

BTW, she was potty-trained at 21 months, thanks to a neighbor's two-year-old who was actively potty-training. When the two girls would play together, Gryff was sooo interested in the other girl's tiny potty. She just did what the other child did, told me "no dipey, Mommy," and voila! I wouldn't know how to potty train a child to save my life. lol

[VelociRapture]

8 hours ago, Coconut Flan said:

I'm mainly thinking of Izzie and hoping they make sure he's included and not feeling kept or pushed out of the way.  Grandson was two when his sister was born and we made sure he was involved and had lots of family around.  Daughter wanted to be sure he was at home when they brought the baby home and I stayed with them for two weeks initially to help and to make sure both kids got attention from grandma and parents.  There is plenty of help for Jill.  She has a non-working husband who can turn to and help out and deal with Izzie.  Jana went and stayed with Jessa when Spurge was born and while I don't think the job should be dumped on her, she's done it before.  I just hope Izzie wasn't shunted off and felt it is all. 

(In no way directed only at you - your comment just got me thinking.  )

See, I kind of feel like no matter what they did they wouldn't be able to win. If Jana comes to stay then they're pushing the responsibility off on poor CinderJana. If Cathy helps out somehow, then Derick is obviously lazy for not being capable of dealing with a rowdy toddler, a newborn, and a wife who is in recovery from major surgery. If no one helps out then Derick would likely be called a control freak who always thinks he knows best or something.

Maybe that's part of the reason they've been so quiet about it all - they simply don't want to deal with all the judgement immediately after welcoming another child. Can't say I'd blame them if that were the case. Husband and I were extremely quiet about Velocibaby's NICU stay on social media for the same reason - we just didn't want to deal with any comments or questions during that time, regardless of how well meaning people were. My mom didn't realize that and wrote about it on Facebook because someone we know asked her - my displeasure was made clear and she hasn't shared information we deem private again.

Like others have said, it really depends on the child's personality. At his age, I would have been miserable staying with a grandparent that long because I was a total mommy's girl. Other kids? They do perfectly fine. Even if he was staying overnight with her that long it's likely that he's at least seen his parents and spoken to them on a daily basis - unless, as has been mentioned, Izzy was barred from visiting parts of the hospital due to his age.

(I feel like that came out a bit bitchier than intended. Sorry if that's the case - Velocibaby is getting all uppity because I dared to place her in the pack n play for more than five minutes, so I can't edit right now. )

[breakfree]

9 hours ago, Million Children For Jesus said:

I don't think 10 days is too long of a visit for Izzy to have with his grandmother, or that it makes Jill entitled. If your kid is going to be happier in the care of a willing, able, and loving relative who is available to help, than it seems like a no brainer to send him over. I got zero help with any of my babies. I wish I had a grandma Cathy, and although it makes me feel a little sad that nobody was there for me, I certainly don't fault the women who utilize their resources. 

What was that again about the Netherlands sending baby nurses to the house? Gosh, I really would have loved that.

It would be nice if Derick could handle a 2-year-old while helping his wife with a newborn, but he certainly wouldn't be the first man who couldn't or wouldn't.

Yeah we're (the Netherlands) not the best for length of maternity leave or child benefits or paternity leave or other related things that most European countries do 'better' than us (though we're admittedly still WAY better than the USA) but to my knowledge the maternity nurse we get for 8 days right after the birth to help with the baby, our health, cooking , cleaning, other kids, breastfeeding, and so on is a pretty unique and wonderful benefit, especially for people like me who have no family close by. Especially with our paternity leave being pretty brutal compared to other European countries (dad gets 2 days and almost always at least one of those is used for the birth; if the timing of the birth is 'unlucky' both can be just for the birth; he also gets another half day but that's for the specific purpose of registering the birth with the town hall and that can take the whole half day depending where you live) the kraamzorg is very helpful to mom during the day when she may have very minimal other support and still be recovering.

[Lovebug]

10 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

I take pictures with both hands despite being right handed. So you don't really need to just use your dominant hand for that.

Its also possible she has him that way simply because that's how he was handed over to her. I've held Velocibaby with her head to the right for the same reason. The left definitely feels more natural to me, so I usually held her that way - but if someone handed her to me with her head to the right I didn't always turn her.

I am left handed but oddly, I do many things right handed.  This includes how I hold babies (in my right arm!), brushing my hair and using a pair of scissors.  If my life counted on it, there are several things I just could not do with my left hand if I tried!

[JuicyDuggar]

11 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

I take pictures with both hands despite being right handed. So you don't really need to just use your dominant hand for that.

Its also possible she has him that way simply because that's how he was handed over to her. I've held Velocibaby with her head to the right for the same reason. The left definitely feels more natural to me, so I usually held her that way - but if someone handed her to me with her head to the right I didn't always turn her.

My assumption for why the head feels more natural on the left than right (at least for right handed folks like myself). If I'm holding a baby and have to do something with my hand (such as taking a photo) I'm going to prefer using my dominant hand. When holding with both arms the weight of the baby is in my left arm and I help support with my right. My right arm and hand are free to move if needed in this position. 

I was also thinking (perhaps already suggested) that Jill's hand is wonky because the camera caught her mid-hair flick. Daddy likes that hair long but I'm sure it gets in the way! I'd hope that if she did have a stroke and was experiencing muscle weakness they wouldn't let her hold such a heifer of a baby. Can't rule anything out, Jill is a Duggar by birth after all. 

[Four is Enough]

oh, Come ON people!! That infamous picture was POSED! It got both derick and Jill's best sides, and it got the baby! Of COURSE, she's messing with her hair... that's what they do.

 

[Ali]

I think it is a bit much to be analyzing which direction she is holding the baby. Maybe she prefers holding a baby that direction? If she is breastfeeding, she could have just finished feeding him on that side. 

[ViolaSebastian]

1 hour ago, Lovebug said:

I am left handed but oddly, I do many things right handed.  This includes how I hold babies (in my right arm!), brushing my hair and using a pair of scissors.  If my life counted on it, there are several things I just could not do with my left hand if I tried!

I'm left-handed and it's the same way with me--I use scissors with my right hand (left-handed scissors are always tragic) and use a mouse with my right hand (but a touch pad with my left, go figure). 

[BeccaGrim]

I had a lot of help when my second was born.  It's not so odd for Grandma to be helping. I think the concern really is about whether or not she's helping because they are still hospitalized.  My oldest was full term and did spend 4 days in the NICU for breathing too fast (he slowed on his own, they just watched him and then day 3 he got jaundice so it was under the lights for 24 hours.) And my friend's son had sugar issues that kept him in the NICU for a week post full term delivery.  So there could be reasons Samuel is still in the hospital. They live their life on TV. They should just say what it is.  When you give up privacy for the TV cameras, you've kind of got to live like that IMO.  Or don't.  Jill could say she doesn't want to anymore and stop filming but I don't think you can have it both ways IMO. 

[blackberry]

3 hours ago, Gillyweed said:

...Seewalds right by family in AK...

Just a note, AK is Alaska and AR is Arkansas. 

[formerpastorswife]

16 hours ago, MadeItOut said:

In DV situations, bearing in mind the cohort for data, while now longstanding, has certain limitations - mostly in a western dominant profile and fairly unbalanced gender wise (due mostly to needing to rely on self disclosure pretty often), the typical mean average pattern is pretty much that it takes a good deal of thinking/planning stages, then roughly 35 'rehearsals' before a successful breakaway. 

I have to agree. I grew up fundie (Gothard, SM Davis, all of it), and married following a proper (though fast) courtship/betrothal. And I was so "into it" that I would not have "rebelled" if you had paid me. It took a good 7 years into my first marriage (to a fundie pastor who was raised by an abusive fundie pastor himself) to really start seeing the holes in the fundie belief system (of course, at the same time, my marriage was slowly spiraling from Pearl-esque into blatant abuse, which took me another two years to really admit). All in all, it took nearly 10 years from marriage to waking up and admitting that what I was in was wrong, unacceptable, and intolerable-- and once I came to that realization, it took several more months to get up the courage and conviction to escape. (Which I honestly may never have done were it not for the fact that the abuse started to turn from psychological, emotional, and sexual into physical... for some reason, that's the "line in the sand" for fundies, so I started getting support from SOME fellow fundies.)

All this to say, don't give up hope for any Duggar offspring. Realizing the entire way you were raised was wrong is a monumental breakthrough that takes a VERY long, slow process to arrive at. And once the realization is reached internally, it can take another long while (and often, something happening in your outer life to "push you over the edge") to actually gather up the courage to take a public stand against it.

[JMO]

Thanks for sharing @formerpastorswife. It's good for us to have some perspective from someone who was in the fundie life. Glad you escaped.  

[VelociRapture]

1 hour ago, BeccaGrim said:

I had a lot of help when my second was born.  It's not so odd for Grandma to be helping. I think the concern really is about whether or not she's helping because they are still hospitalized.  My oldest was full term and did spend 4 days in the NICU for breathing too fast (he slowed on his own, they just watched him and then day 3 he got jaundice so it was under the lights for 24 hours.) And my friend's son had sugar issues that kept him in the NICU for a week post full term delivery.  So there could be reasons Samuel is still in the hospital. They live their life on TV. They should just say what it is.  When you give up privacy for the TV cameras, you've kind of got to live like that IMO.  Or don't.  Jill could say she doesn't want to anymore and stop filming but I don't think you can have it both ways IMO. 

I don't care who you are. Everyone has a right to privacy when it concerns their health. Even a famewhore family like the Duggars have a right to medical privacy. 

It's fine to speculate (within reason) and to be concerned, but if they don't want to share information right after having a child then that's absolutely their right.

[Fluffy14]

50 minutes ago, formerpastorswife said:

It took a good 7 years into my first marriage (to a fundie pastor who was raised by an abusive fundie pastor himself) to really start seeing the holes in the fundie belief system

I am glad you posted this. It is good to get first hand experience and listen to others stories. What you have experienced is horrific. 

 I want to make it abundantly clear my expectations are for the Duggar family. My  beef is with the Duggar's in particular because they have so much backlash of truth going in their direction. They are not your ordinary fundamentalist family. Nor are they the average wife like you who had to weed through DV to figure out the truth in so much pain. I hold your story in great regard. 

At this point with the Duggar  ADULT children  I highly doubt there is abuse within the home. At this point I would never say it could not happen. It is the nature of the doctrine. 

I just so wish they would actually humble themselves and read the scores of really good, biblical scholarly , psychological reasons as to why their belief system is effed up. 

I hold them to a higher degree of accountability and humility simply because of who they are and how many years of stuff that has been written about them that could point them to freedom. In my mind they are in a completely different accountability department than the average fundamentalist.  I hold the same belief for Gothard,  Michael and Debi Pearl, Doug Phillips, Lori Alexander. Anyone who holds themselves as superior teachers and role models. Who have a plethora of information of truth at their fingertips but who utterly refuse to even read it . 

[Ms. Squishels]

Derek and Jill have a right to privacy, of course, if something is wrong.  But just based on what they've always done, including when Izzy was born, they share everything publicly.  Only having one picture of Jill with the baby, no pictures of Samuel and Izzy together, and Jessa's video really makes me think something is wrong.  And like everyone else, I sincerely hope that everyone is okay.  When it comes out in People or on Counting On, then maybe we will know what happened.

[lomo6]

22 hours ago, SilverBeach said:

A poster in the prior thread asked about my views on when fundy adults reach accountability status. I think that being well into your twenties does it, and I think my posting history shows that I do not support perpetual infantilization of the Duggars or any of the rest of them.

That said, I recognize that everyone matures differently,  fundy or not. Reaching 18, the arbitrary age of adulthood in many areas, does not automatically confer the ability to "adult", as I have seen said on here before. Conversely, there are some who haven't reached 18 that are wise beyond their years.

At some point,  unquestioning adherence to and support of hateful and hurtful practices must be called out, barring any cognitive deficits. Being raised in a bubble is no justification for staying there. Fundies, FLDS, Jehovah Witnesses, and others in high control groups leave all the time. Some have even left Gothard and IBLP.

The thing with the Duggars and their ilk is that their embrace of reprehensible beliefs and policies haven't personally hurt them or cost them anything. They are cushy comfortable in the bubble. Most of those leaving high control groups have precipitating (unhappy) events, including abuse, that cause them to question the whole thing. They leave at great personal cost, but it is worth it for them, and in many cases their children, to be free.

So while I can't set an arbitrary age or point of accountibility,  I'm comfortable with saying that several of the Duggars have reached it. And I wont go easy on them.

 

 

You make some great points. 

I think people typically walk away from oppressive belief systems when they've experienced a trauma (like if one of the Duggar girls ends up with a physically abusive spouse), or when they're able to get some distance and get exposed to different ways of thinking (like going to a public high school or moving out and making friends from outside the group). 

Yeah, some of the older girls were abused by Josh, but they were so young when it happened that JB and Michelle were able to control their reactions. 

The show, which only exists because of their parents horrifyingly fascinating belief system, makes their extremely cushy lifestyles possible. I think it would be hard for most people to walk away.  

For most of the Duggars, I think the best shot is finding a spouse who exposes them to new ideas or broadens their world view, even if the result is still very conservative Christian. Maybe some of the Duggar grandkids will be able to go to public school or college, and have some opportunity for independent thought. 

Perhaps if the show goes away and things start to unravel financially, some of the younger kids might be able to break free because there won't be such a big financial incentive to stay put.

 

[MoonFace]

16 hours ago, Coconut Flan said:

Ten days does seem a bit long for grandma to keep the grandson.  Hopefully she's been taking him over every day to visit and he's enjoying the attention from grandma and not feeling shoved out.   This is Jill though and she may feel having her son taken care of by someone else is her due.

Considering Jill went through 40 hours of labor before a c-section, and this being Cathy's only grandchild (until Sam came along) it could be that she was just really enjoying having him to herself without all the Duggars around.    And lets face it, healing from a major surgery like a c-section takes a lot out of a person.    When my DIL had her third c-section her mom was with her for three weeks.   The older girls were 2 and 4, and she was still exhausted (It was a planned c-section, so no labor)    Her incision was so tender and picking up the 2 year old was making the incision strained. 

I'll give Jill a pass on letting Cathy keep Izzy for 10 days. 

13 hours ago, candygirl200413 said:

Slightly off-topic but if she does end up doing a People's mag what would the cover say? Since she already had a dramatic birth?

The cover could say

DRAMA BIRTH!   Two C-Sections and Counting!

[VelociRapture]

55 minutes ago, Ms. Squishels said:

Derek and Jill have a right to privacy, of course, if something is wrong.  But just based on what they've always done, including when Izzy was born, they share everything publicly.  Only having one picture of Jill with the baby, no pictures of Samuel and Izzy together, and Jessa's video really makes me think something is wrong.  And like everyone else, I sincerely hope that everyone is okay.  When it comes out in People or on Counting On, then maybe we will know what happened.

I've pointed it out multiple times as have others - Derick and Jill have gotten much quieter on social media since Izzy was born and they began "working" in SCA. As such, you can't compare their openness immediately after Izzy's birth to how quiet they've been with Samuel. It used to be normal for them to share everything via social media, but that hasn't been the case for a while.

(I did a count at some point on the number of posts they made during each pregnancy - including non-pregnancy related posts. I don't remember exact numbers, but they each posted around half what they did during her pregnancy with Izzy. So when I say they've gotten significantly more private on social media the last couple years I mean it.)

[karen77]

56 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

I've pointed it out multiple times as have others - Derick and Jill have gotten much quieter on social media since Izzy was born and they began "working" in SCA. As such, you can't compare their openness immediately after Izzy's birth to how quiet they've been with Samuel. It used to be normal for them to share everything via social media, but that hasn't been the case for a while.

(I did a count at some point on the number of posts they made during each pregnancy - including non-pregnancy related posts. I don't remember exact numbers, but they each posted around half what they did during her pregnancy with Izzy. So when I say they've gotten significantly more private on social media the last couple years I mean it.)

But you can attribute some of this quietness to the fact that they dont' have regular internet access in SCA, so it's not really an apples to apples comparison.

[Dutchie]

19 hours ago, MadeItOut said:

 it could also just be a European thing too. 

European here, never heard of it either. My kid has grandparents from Germany, Holland and Spain. We are living in Holland and spent 2 months in Spain when my son was 3-5 months old. No one ever said anything about the heart- head thing. (German granddad may just not know, but didn't say anything either).

[ItsMeY'all]

4 hours ago, ViolaSebastian said:

I'm left-handed and it's the same way with me--I use scissors with my right hand (left-handed scissors are always tragic) and use a mouse with my right hand (but a touch pad with my left, go figure). 

I always say I'm 70% right handed because I use scissors, dry my hair, eat, and do a few other things left handed. Interesting to see others on here list scissors as something they use their nondominant hand for. 

My sister is being told her daughter is behind in her fine motor skills (she is still young enough there isn't much concern) but watching her I'm pretty sure it is because they are trying to teach her to do everything as though she is right handed. She is clearly right dominant but naturally seems to prefer left for a handful of things. Watch her color and she naturally goes right handed but have her paint your nails and she goes left. Same for things like kicking or throwing a ball (right), but swinging a baseball bat or golf club and she can hardly do it right handed but is a natural leftie. Child development is in no way my area, but based on personal experiences it would be nice if early childhood education took this grey area into account in teaching and developmental evaluations.

[VineHeart137]

17 hours ago, singsingsing said:

Okay. My mind is boggled. Is 'take back' not a common expression amongst pretty much all English speakers? 

That was me that started the confusion. In my head, the way it read was she was saying she didn't want to take him back, as in "someone gave him to me but I didn't want to take him" which obviously wasn't right so I just assumed she misspoke (mis-typed?) and didn't think any more of it. It didn't occur to me that she meant "I didn't want to take him back home" which does also make sense to me. Gonna have to chalk that one up to mommy brain!

[PainfullyAware]

5 hours ago, ViolaSebastian said:

I'm left-handed and it's the same way with me--I use scissors with my right hand (left-handed scissors are always tragic) and use a mouse with my right hand (but a touch pad with my left, go figure). 

Same here! I write left handed but am a rightie for almost everything else- scissors, chopping veggies, throwing. I can use a mouse with either hand. Maybe I'm ambidextrous but most things I can only do well with one hand. Probably quite a few lefties do this to fit in a right handed world?

[EmmieJ]

4 hours ago, formerpastorswife said:

<snip> It took a good 7 years into my first marriage (to a fundie pastor who was raised by an abusive fundie pastor himself) to really start seeing the holes in the fundie belief system (of course, at the same time, my marriage was slowly spiraling from Pearl-esque into blatant abuse, which took me another two years to really admit). All in all, it took nearly 10 years from marriage to waking up and admitting that what I was in was wrong, unacceptable, and intolerable-- and once I came to that realization, it took several more months to get up the courage and conviction to escape. (Which I honestly may never have done were it not for the fact that the abuse started to turn from psychological, emotional, and sexual into physical... for some reason, that's the "line in the sand" for fundies, so I started getting support from SOME fellow fundies.)

I'm so glad you had the strength and determination to eventually leave that relationship.  *hug*

[VelociRapture]

1 hour ago, karen77 said:

But you can attribute some of this quietness to the fact that they dont' have regular internet access in SCA, so it's not really an apples to apples comparison.

Yes, but even while stateside they've been quieter than they used to be. It's possible they just got into the habit of not posting because unreliable internet, by it's also possible they just really don't want to deal with negative comments (warranted or not.) I really don't see anything overly unusual by their decision not to share more right now.

ETA: And now that I think of it, your post really just adds to my point. You can't compare the two time periods fairly and shouldn't use it as evidence them hiding anything.