Michael and Brandon Keilen Part 3

[FundiePrincess]

Michaela did mention adoption in her fertility discussion with Erin in last night's episode. They discussed her (at the time) undiagnosed inability to conceive and she says at the end of the scene, "maybe someday. And if not, I'll adopt me a baby."

[BeccaGrim]

1 hour ago, FundiePrincess said:

Michaela did mention adoption in her fertility discussion with Erin in last night's episode. They discussed her (at the time) undiagnosed inability to conceive and she says at the end of the scene, "maybe someday. And if not, I'll adopt me a baby."

She broke my heart last night.  The quiet way she spoke of the blood work and the ultrasounds and the things Brandon does for her.  And how some days she's fine and some days she is absolutely not fine.  And how people come to her doctor from all over. Then Erin talked about losing the babies and they agreed it was all bad.  I felt like that was a real moment in the midst of the ice cream war and the AARP commercial. 

[Mela99]

My heart truly goes out to her. I'm so proud of Michaela. 

[Mudgie]

I have always thought that it appears that Michael handles herself with grace and dignity.  That is how she is handling this situation as well. I can't even imagine how heartbreaking it must be. She and Brandon do seem to be genuinely devoted to one another. He comes across as being very protective of her and having her well being prioritized. I do hope they can build a family together. However that comes to fruition for them.

I'm interested in seeing how their book turns out. The small glimpse we had it looked intriguing. 

The AARP commercial was weird. So far they've advertised Rent a Center, Cracker Barrel and now AARP. At least that's what I've noticed. Interesting. 

[vienna]

Michael not being able to have bilogical kids; Anna Dugger dealing with adultery. Both women are in complicated and hurtful situations anyway. But combined with the burden of the  ridicules rules of their cult on how to cope and telling them what they can and can not think, feel and do: They are doing a he'll of a job. Cudos 

In addition; Michael does all the testing and no reason for the infertility can be found. What about Brandon? I guess the cult does not allow semen at any other place than the vigina. 

[Andrea]

She's  going to a top fertility specialists  (according to her ) so Brandon will get tested also.  She may not talk about it but it's part of the process when you are trying to diagnose infertility.  I'm not assuming but I'm basing it on my own experience  and that of many many people I met during my journey.  

[Snarkle Motion]

49 minutes ago, Andrea said:

She's  going to a top fertility specialists  (according to her ) so Brandon will get tested also.  She may not talk about it but it's part of the process when you are trying to diagnose infertility.  I'm not assuming but I'm basing it on my own experience  and that of many many people I met during my journey.  

I'm guessing that this is an exception where a man would be allowed to masterbate if it is related to medical testing. Same way Erin was ok with having a male doctor examining her and that didn't contradict modesty standards. 

I highly doubt we'd hear about the results if Brandon as the male was found infertile, as its not ok to question ones masculinity, but would potentially hear about it if michael was the infertile one even though it's equally or even more stigmatizing for women in the cult.

I would not be surprised at all to learn that this couple was ignorant about sex. You hear about it every now and again that a couple thinks they are infertile only to find out they don't understand the logistics of sex. Like if this were to happen to any fundie couple, this is the couple I would bet on as they both seem pretty naive.

[BeccaGrim]

On 9/3/2017 at 9:12 PM, Snarkle Motion said:

I would not be surprised at all to learn that this couple was ignorant about sex. You hear about it every now and again that a couple thinks they are infertile only to find out they don't understand the logistics of sex. Like if this were to happen to any fundie couple, this is the couple I would bet on as they both seem pretty naive.

Wouldn't he have gotten that book that Josh got? When he told his father he knew how pieces went together? (And it turns out he really did). 

[VelociRapture]

@Snarkle Motion I don't think they'd be seeing fertility specialists if it were simply a matter of ignorance. I honestly think they're being truthful that something is wrong and they do need medical assistance. At least Michaela's blog post has indicated there may be something medically wrong.

[Coconut Flan]

She said that they are doing ultrasounds and blood work.  I don't think they'd get that far either without making sure it wasn't ignorance.

[just_ordinary]

When you talk to your OB about problems with infertility, they often start with asking about your sexuality. Simple reason is that a lot of couples just should have more sex, have sex at a different time.

This obviously doesn't apply to couples where a medical problem causes infertility.  That is why I think it is a good idea to talk to your doctor sooner about not conceiving. Most won't get into elaborate tests before a year of trying (when your older it is 6 months I think) but it is nice not to wait for another three months or so because this is the first advice you get. 

[Mela99]

I believe Brandon would have been tested first and foremost. A semen analysis is the least expensive, least invasive and simplest way to determine if there is male factor fertility. My DH was tested before I was even scheduled for any ultrasounds or HSG or bloodwork. 

[marmalade]

But would their religious beliefs permit him "spilling his seed" even for such a worthwhile cause? 

Michael told Erin during last week's episode that infertility was "undiagnosed." She never mentioned any testing for Brandon, only what she'd done to that point. This was filmed early summer, so they may know more now. 

[Mela99]

It can still be considered unexplained infertility even with all the testing

As to the "would he do it for Michaela" I have to say I believe he would. I think Brandon genuinely adores his wife and it can't be easy for him to see her suffer. They could also provide a collection condom so that takes care of that

[Firebird]

Fertility issues suck regardless of age, race, religion, upbringing, political leanings or what have you...hugs to Michaela and all the rest going through it.

[jqlgoblue]

Yes. The masculinity thing is also huge even outside of fundie life. I have a friend who went thru (in retrospect, pretty minor) infertility due to endometriosis and she said she was grateful it wasn't a problem with her husband b/c he would have been crushed. So, even if not for the cult I doubt we'd hear much on the male side of the equation.

[HereticHick]

I think it is interesting that Brandon and Michaela spent Labor Day weekend with the Keilens on Lake Michigan, rather than at the Bontragers' triple weddingpalooza in eastern Iowa.

[AtlanticTug]

I really feel for them as we went through much of the same.

The problem with all the tests is that for a large part of the infertile population, there is no reason or explanation. Unexplained infertility is incredibly frustrating. It can be mitigated somewhat by going the IVF route. Most people think of IVF as a tool to have a child, but a second great benefit of it is that it is also a diagnostic tool, albeit a very expensive one. Going through an IVF cycle gives many clues you could not otherwise have - egg quality, embryonic quality, fertilization rates, PGS testing. But I don't think the Bates' are willing to go this far, so for them it may remain a mystery forever.

[faraway]

I really don't wish infertility on anyone but this might be a good reality check especially for these poster fundies. They believe that if you do everything right god will bless you and what is the greatest blessing of them all?  If it takes a well-known couple struggling so publicly there is some good that can come out of this. It might dawn on some of the Bates (and other nutheads who follow them) that this is simply something that happens, not only to evil heathens.

[VelociRapture]

Not sure where the donations will be sent, but it's a very nice gesture if it's sent to relief funds. 

[Chewing Gum]

She sure makes lovely stuff! I'm just puzzeled about that maxicosi cover. How does a baby breath and not get too hot?

[Seculardaisy]

22 minutes ago, Chewing Gum said:

She sure makes lovely stuff! I'm just puzzeled about that maxicosi cover. How does a baby breath and not get too hot?

There was actually a warning issued late last Summer I believe advising parents not to using blankets to cover strollers and car seats as babies to keep babies from overheating and/or having a hard time breathing. I will try and find a link to that shortly.

Edited to add link:

http://www.parents.com/baby/all-about-babies/the-dangerous-stroller-mistake-youre-probably-making/

[Chewing Gum]

I know, we have a new hype (Netherlands)  in covering a maxicosi in cute fabrics, but they're a hazard for overheating. 

[Kittikatz]

I can see the stroller covers being a hazard in most places with somewhat reasonable weather - when I cover the cat stroller (yes, I am that level of crazy cat lady) it gets warm fast. I was curious about how much warmer, so I strapped a digital thermometer to one of the canopy supports and monitored it. The Grrruck is about the size of a small jogging stroller and has a covered roof with mesh windows and a mesh skylight. It was evening (12C), and after a 20 mins walk the cats' ears were starting to feel chilled, so I covered the stroller canopy with a cover like people can buy for baby strollers, leaving the bit around the bottom open so they could still see and sniff out (probably about 80% was covered). Within 10 minutes of covering, the internal air temperature of the stroller had gone up to 21C. Another 7 minutes to home, and as I walked up to my building, the air temp of the Grrruck was reading 27C. Big change in a very short period of time. I cannot imagine how high those number would get in warmer weather. I repeated the same experiment with the clear vinyl rain cover and the numbers were similar. Now I just put the cats in hoodies, use a heated seat under the blanket they sit on, and only cover the stroller if the weather is truly inclement (-15 and below) or its pouring rain, and even then I generally fold or roll up a good portion of the covering to allow air flow. I also have the thermometer linked to my cell phone for monitoring and regularly check ear temps and happiness levels. I'm surprised that human strollers don't come with an internal thermometer monitor, and would encourage anyone who makes use of a stroller in cold or rainy climates to get one - esp if you are going for walks in extreme weather conditions. It's an easy and affordable way to get some peace of mind.

[elliha]

Very interesting @Kittikatz, I tried it with my stroller as my daughter just couldn't sleep without a cover. It didn't raise the temperature more than 2-3 degrees. I guess different models will produce different results. After that I didn't feel scared at all to keep covering her stroller.