Amy and the Pickle 5: Trekking to TLC

[HarryPotterFan]

26 minutes ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

Yeah, and Fred and Tonks and Lupin and Dumbledore. And Dobby. Oh god, Dobby.

But I seriously shed tears over Hedwig and Fred.

 

All of those are unforgivable. I remember when I first read the book and got to Fred's death my brother decided that would be an appropriate moment to start skipping and singing around the beach house my family was renting for a week. I freaked out on him hard. I think I yelled something about a war going on and to shut up  I did not take his death well. I'm still not over it.

[CreationMuseumSeasonPass]

My husband has been reading the Game of Thrones books since the first one came out. After devoting more than 20 years of his life to these characters, he's so excited the show will at least explain how it ends. Also, fun fact, George R.R. Martin was a professor at a small college in Iowa a long time ago, and he partially based "winter is coming" from the climate up here. I take that as Iowans=Whitewalkers lol

Ahhhh here it is.

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/local/kyle-munson/2014/05/21/game-thrones-series-ex-iowa-professor-wrote-kyle-munson/2303526/

 

Edited June 26, 2017 by CreationMuseumSeasonPass

[VelociRapture]

Literature' most prolific serial killer. 

Pretty sure he actually said that once. It's not actually true, but he's pretty frustrated with people pressuring him - mostly because the people asking are new to the books and show. They don't realize he's always been a slower paced writer.

Personally, I don't mind waiting. I want him to be happy with how it turns out and he needs to live his own life. It can't revolve solely around his books. I do hope he finishes the series... but if he doesn't, then I just hope he can look back on his life and feel happy with how it went.

Also, mission accomplished sir. 

[HarryPotterFan]

@VelociRapture I'm pretty sure he said that too. But if it were true there'd be negative eleventy bajillion Starks. Can't you imagine him planning on having a Stark take the Iron Throne, but then changin his mind and killing them all off just to get back at fans? 

[Flossie]

Sounds like you Game of Thrones fans are going through what the Wheel of Time fans endured.  15 books.  From 1990 to 2013.  The author, Robert Jordan got lost in the story and wrote book after book that barely advanced the story.  Then he got sick and eventually died.  He turned the series over to Brandon Sanderson, who was supposed to end the series in one book, but took three books to finally end it all.  And it was a very unsatisfactory ending, too, as it was clear that everyone involved was sick and tired of the whole thing and just wanted to end it, but not before they got more money out of the process.  I know this as a fan that bought every blasted book.  It's frustrating.

[CreationMuseumSeasonPass]

I watched the first season of GOT with my husband. Enjoyed it, but not enough to get me hooked to watch seasons 2 and 3. Gave 4 a chance, and OH MY, was it good. After a few episodes of season 5, I realized how GODDAMN DEPRESSING it was going to be and had to step away. Came back for season 6 to see if a certain Snow was still alive. Season 6 has to be my favorite with the Battle for Winterfell at the end. That is some of the finest camera work I've ever seen, regardless of TV or movie. Also, Kit Harrington is yummy yummy yummy

[VelociRapture]

1 hour ago, CreationMuseumSeasonPass said:

I watched the first season of GOT with my husband. Enjoyed it, but not enough to get me hooked to watch seasons 2 and 3. Gave 4 a chance, and OH MY, was it good. After a few episodes of season 5, I realized how GODDAMN DEPRESSING it was going to be and had to step away. Came back for season 6 to see if a certain Snow was still alive. Season 6 has to be my favorite with the Battle for Winterfell at the end. That is some of the finest camera work I've ever seen, regardless of TV or movie. Also, Kit Harrington is yummy yummy yummy

The producers have really done a fantastic job to be honest. I wasn't happy at some points because the story was dragging on without really advancing much. But then Season six happened and it made more sense why they took the approach they did. Those last few episodes were so worth the wait - especially that scene with a certain Lannister monarch prepping for "battle" and then sipping their wine with the best little smirk on their face.

Apparently, Martin had worked extensively in television prior to agreeing to let HBO adapt GOT. So he has a really healthy view on letting them take his story in directions he won't be taking the books because he knows it's difficult following any original source material perfectly. 

1 hour ago, HarryPotterFan said:

@VelociRapture I'm pretty sure he said that too. But if it were true there'd be negative eleventy bajillion Starks. Can't you imagine him planning on having a Stark take the Iron Throne, but then changin his mind and killing them all off just to get back at fans? 

... I kind of hope he offs all the Starks except Sansa. Simply because that would piss off fans far more than killing all of them would. It'd be one of the greatest trolls in literary history. 

And I actually like Sansa on the show and in the books. She's been through a LOT of shit - admittedly, worse on the show - yet she's still kicking. Out of all the Starks, I think she has the best chances of making it through the series alive simply because she's better at understanding how to play politics. The others are great characters too, but Jon is clearly inept thanks to his crippling adherence to honor, Bran relies on other people to move him around (though, he does have some pretty fantastic abilities to help him), and Arya would have been executed by Joffrey before the end of season two had she stayed in the Red Keep - she completely lacks discipline and the calculating mind necessary to keep herself safe in that environment.

Edited June 26, 2017 by VelociRapture

[Nikedagain?]

4 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

ETA: Don't get attached to any of the characters on GOT. Seriously. I made that mistake at first and I learned very quickly not to. 

VERRRYY QUICKLY!

[HarryPotterFan]

@VelociRapture I know that the show has gone in a different direction than the books, not just because it's hard to adhere to source material, but they ran out! I also know that the producers talked with Geroge RR Martin about how he wanted the series to end. So will the ending of the show be a massive spoiler for the books in terms of who "wins?"

[VelociRapture]

1 minute ago, HarryPotterFan said:

@VelociRapture I know that the show has gone in a different direction than the books, not just because it's hard to adhere to source material, but they ran out! I also know that the producers talked with Geroge RR Martin about how he wanted the series to end. So will the ending of the show be a massive spoiler for the books in terms of who "wins?"

It's absolutely possible. I believe Martin had gone so far as to say that he doesn't think he'll end up completing the series. Which is a shame since they're so well-written and have such fantastic female characters. I love the fact that he was once asked how he writes such great female characters and he responded by saying he's always considered women to be human beings. 

And the fact that none of the characters are entirely good or evil. Ned lies to his wife and the world to keep a very big promise. Arya kills people. Catelyn loves her children, but is downright cruel to Jon. Dany often commits acts of great cruelty in order to advance her cause or in an attempt to right horrible wrongs - and that to many characters, she's viewed as the antagonist because she's going to invade and kill them all. Khal Drogo clearly cherishes his wife, but that wedding night is more than just a little rape-suggestive (though part of that is due to her age, which by modern standards is completely wrong but by the standards for the books' world are kind of normal.) Sansa tries to do what she thinks is best, but often fucks it up because she's a child tossed into an adults' very deadly game. Cersei also commits horrific acts, but often does so out of protective instincts for her children. Walder Frey betrays his Lord, but only after being given an excellent reason to do so. I mean, even Ramsay Bolton likes dogs... 

To be honest, the only truly evil character may be The Mountain. I hate The Mountain.

Martin has said he intends to avoid a LOTR type ending - where most of the main characters have happy endings - because it's just not realistic for the world he created. I could honestly see Dany getting offed right before achieving her goal. Or Arya being killed because fans love her. Or Cersei winning all because it would piss people off.

[Nikedagain?]

They have a TON of story lines to wrap up this season. I have purposely waited to read the books. So I am really wondering how they are going to accomplish this!

@VelociRapture I would call Joffrey and Ramsey evil! Cersei, I don't know...

Haha, I love that we've gone from Michael Scott to Jon Snow  

[VelociRapture]

2 minutes ago, Nikedagain? said:

They have a TON of story lines to wrap up this season. I have purposely waited to read the books. So I am really wondering how they are going to accomplish this!

@VelociRapture I would call Joffrey and Ramsey evil! Cersei, I don't know...

Haha, I love that we've gone from Michael Scott to Jon Snow  

I would as well. But they aren't entirely evil the way I view The Mountain to be. Joffrey became Joffrey due to a combination of having an overindulgent mother, an abusive "father" he seemed desperate to impress, and being inbred. He wasn't born to be completely evil - he was made that way by the adults in his life and by being granted massive powers at a very young age. You occasionally get glimpses of the scared little kid he used to be.

As for Ramsay, like Jon he was born a bastard of an ancient House who was constantly reminded of his status. Unlike Jon, he didn't have a loving and supportive father to help guide him to be a decent person. His father constantly demanded more and more from Ramsay - he pretty much constantly demanded that Ramsay prove his loyalty and love to him. Not only that, but his family is so infamous for flaying their enemies that they have a flayed man on their sigil. It's honestly not a surprise to me that he turned out so sadistic and cruel.

Compare that to The Mountain who, as a child, was already so evil that he purposely disfigured half of his little brother's face by burning it in the fire... simply because his brother played with his toy. Or the fact that he gleefully raped be murdered women and children.

Joffrey and Ramsay are evil, but The Mountain is another level.

[HarryPotterFan]

20 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

It's absolutely possible. I believe Martin had gone so far as to say that he doesn't think he'll end up completing the series. 

Why they shit wouldn't he finish??? Come on, dude!!

[VelociRapture]

36 minutes ago, HarryPotterFan said:

Why they shit wouldn't he finish??? Come on, dude!!

Lol! He's he's not getting any younger - he's 68 and a notoriously slow writer. Not everyone can be a Stephen King level prodigy. 

It took him five years to finish writing A Game of Thrones (pub. 1996.) The latest (and fifth of seven planned) book came out in 2011 after another five years of writing. So I'm hoping next year we'll get news that he's finished writing the next book.

[CreationMuseumSeasonPass]

Also, GOT books are massive. So yeah, those books with all of their intricate plots take a long time, much to my husband's chagrin. One of the things he loves about the story lines is things can get messy, because that's real life. Mr. Museum loved that after Dany liberated the slaves in Mereen, she got stuck there trying to fix her own problems. You don't just abolish a societal system that's worked for thousands of years and expect everything new to fall into place at once. She got stuck in her own muck. 

I also read somewhere that Martin gave permission to the HBO producers only after they answered correctly who they think Jon Snow's mother is. And, that's when he told them the ending to the entire series. Plus, if Martin doesn't know if he'll succeed in finishing 7 books, I'm glad SOMEONE knows how it's all supposed to end, whether it's by the TV show or books.

[Carm_88]

Also adding, A Feast of Crows and A Storm of Swords were supposed to be in one massive book. Then he thought that that was ridiculous and split them into 2 very thick books. Let's hope he finishes them but, don't hold your breath? 

[VelociRapture]

12 minutes ago, CreationMuseumSeasonPass said:

Also, GOT books are massive. So yeah, those books with all of their intricate plots take a long time, much to my husband's chagrin. One of the things he loves about the story lines is things can get messy, because that's real life. Mr. Museum loved that after Dany liberated the slaves in Mereen, she got stuck there trying to fix her own problems. You don't just abolish a societal system that's worked for thousands of years and expect everything new to fall into place at once. She got stuck in her own muck. 

I also read somewhere that Martin gave permission to the HBO producers only after they answered correctly who they think Jon Snow's mother is. And, that's when he told them the ending to the entire series. Plus, if Martin doesn't know if he'll succeed in finishing 7 books, I'm glad SOMEONE knows how it's all supposed to end, whether it's by the TV show or books.

Completely agree. 

And yes, that's how HBO wound up with the rights. Martin wanted to be sure that the producers were actual fans of the work, not just looking to make good money. They laid out their theories, answered correctly, and were rewarded with his approval.

Martin has said there are at least three big things he told them that will happen on the show and in the next books. One being what happened with Hodor - apparently, what happens is the same but circumstances are somehow different. It'll be interesting to see what happens and (eventually) how it matches up.

ETA: This all reminds me of Stieg Larsen (The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo.) He originally planned a full ten books in his series, but only finished three and a partial draft for a fourth book before he unexpectedly died of a hearty attack. I hope that doesn't happen to Martin, but if it does then I just hope it doesn't turn into a legal battle between his wife and his family the way it did with Larsen's. 

Edited June 27, 2017 by VelociRapture

[CreationMuseumSeasonPass]

Is it July yet @VelociRapture? Because WINTER IS HERE!  I just want to see some Whitewalkers kick some ass. Oh, and I also want to see what Cersei will do now on the Iron Throne because the one thing that showed her humanity was her love for her children, who are now all dead. What kind of ruler will she be? 

Edited June 27, 2017 by CreationMuseumSeasonPass

[VelociRapture]

26 minutes ago, CreationMuseumSeasonPass said:

Is it July yet @VelociRapture? Because WINTER IS HERE!  I just want to see some Whitewalkers kick some ass. Oh, and I also want to see what Cersei will do now on the Iron Throne because the one thing that showed her humanity was her love for her children, who are now all dead. What kind of ruler will she be? 

Probably a combination of the following:

Spoiler

 

Edited June 27, 2017 by VelociRapture

[CreationMuseumSeasonPass]

The musical score in this scene truly makes it EPIC. Warning, murderous children and wildfyre. That's one way to get rid of a bunch of your supporting characters and focus on other story lines. Cersei: Sips wine.

 

[Georgiana]

If you like GOT but have never read the history it is based upon (the Plantagenet dynasty and the War of the Roses), you are MISSING OUT.   Many of Martin's main characters are nearly ripped right out of history and placed in the book.  Try out Margaret Buford who was married at 12, immediately pregnant, had her husband die, endured an arduous labor that likely damaged her body and made her unable to bear children....and then said "Fuck this noise, I'm going to make my son King."  And then DID.  Or Elizabeth Woodville, who married the king, angered the great families of the realm by promoting her family interests, briefly made her own son king before he was deposed by his uncle, was imprisoned in the capital and finally collaborated with Buford...before Buford eventually secured Woodville's downfall.  We have a man known as the "Kingmaker", who made a Yorkist king then switched sides, undid him, and helped secure the final Lancastrian victory...

Even WITH dragons and white walkers and sorceresses, Martin honestly doesn't outdo the amazing real life narrative that saw the fall of the Plantagenets and the rise of the Tudors.  Shit was CRAY.

Dan Jones' The Plantagenets is a GREAT book.  David Starkey's series Monarchy (first several seasons were on Netflix for a while, hopefully they are still there) is incredible.  The royal history of England is seriously one of the most interesting out there, topped only in my opinion by the Russian Tsars, and the evolving English idea of monarchy is a topic that is FAR more interesting than it may at first appear.

As for GOT, I will say this: Martin claims this is all based on the War of the Roses, which was won by the candidate that was supported by Wales.  Dorne is VERY clearly Wales.  So I think whoever Dorne backs will win the throne and consolidate their claim much like Henry Tudor: by marrying the woman who has been the daughter, sister, and cousin (in real history, niece) of the recent kings, thus joining the roses together into one house and ending the war.  Just my theory  

[VelociRapture]

@GeorgianaOr, marry the man who was related to recent monarchs. Dany is still very much in the game. Honestly though, I think I'd be surprised if he went this route entirely. He really enjoys being unpredictable and he's already stated the books are based off the War of the Roses (and Ivanhoe). I don't think he'd risk people guessing the ending that easily.

But yes! I highly agree that people interested should read up on the history. It's a fascinating period of time filled with horrific acts and a ridiculously colorful cast of characters. It exhibits both the very worst and very best of humanity.

[QuiverFullofBooks]

1 hour ago, Georgiana said:

Try out Margaret Buford who was married at 12, immediately pregnant, had her husband die, endured an arduous labor that likely damaged her body and made her unable to bear children....and then said "Fuck this noise, I'm going to make my son King."  And then DID.  

It's "Beaufort." There's also a theory that she wasn't necessarily infertile, but understandably avoided sex. Her marriage contract with Lord Stanley, her third husband, said they wouldn't have sex. It's not known what she got up to or didn't with her second husband, but he had been married previously and had not fathered a child. She was also excessively religious even by the standards of the Middle Ages, and at the time it was considered sinful (by some fundie types) to have sex if there was no possibility of conception, even if you were married.

[clueliss]

Philippa Gregory has an entire series of novels set in The War of the Roses - along with an associated miniseries The White Queen (I think that was the name) that was on Starz (I believe).  

[Elvis Presby]

On 6/25/2017 at 10:56 PM, nst said:

I did that with the Affair Season 1 and 2 and Revenge season 1 

 

OMG!  The Affair!  I can't sleep sitting up so I watched a lot of TV on the way to Italy.  Pretty sure I watched almost the entire first season of The Affair over the Atlantic.