Jana's Future 4 - Family Ties

[batuityma]

1 hour ago, SilverBeach said:

Sorry, this is bullshit. Contrarian WITH REASONS, sure. But just to say something that flies  in the face of years of posting history, with no substantiation, uh no.

Once again, if you read here before joining, you would see that we discuss stuff ad nauseum. 

And if you think what I posted was rude, you may want to rethink this FJ thing. That was tame.

If we are lame, that door you came in through swings both ways. Too bad you got off to a bad start here, most new members fit in just fine. But FJ is not for everyone. 

And by the way, FJ is way bigger than the Duggars, and the stated mission is to discuss the dangers of fundamentalism.

Holy shit, is there some animosity being carried over from another thread that I missed? The hostility in your response just seems so out of proportion to what she wrote. She's new.  Jeez, cut her some slack. Am I missing something here? Are we hazing new members now?

[Lulu22du]

Holy shit, is there some animosity being carried over from another thread that I missed? The hostility in your response just seems so out of proportion to what she wrote. She's new.  Jeez, cut her some slack. Am I missing something here? Are we hazing new members now?

Thank you Batuityma. I posted earlier about my perception of Jana not being as controlled as some may think. It wasn't me saying it's for sure, just my opinion. I thought this was about discussing thoughts about the Duggars (and other fundie families) and then people giving their opinions in a respectful way.
I can't believe I feel offended by some stranger on the internet, never thought I would...but I'm new and unfamiliar with all this. Thank you for proving that there are mature, nice people on here. I have to admit though I don't think I'll be posting much else because I really don't like being attacked for saying a thought. You're awesome though. Thank you.

[marmalade]

17 hours ago, AnnaRuk09 said:

False alarm. Ain't no Joanna. It was Jennifer Hartono at the Rio Grande. Now that makes more sense

Yeah, I saw the pic on Jenni Hartono's Instagram this morning (I hate the disorder of that site, showing me pictures a day after the fact!).

[SilverBeach]

3 hours ago, batuityma said:

Holy shit, is there some animosity being carried over from another thread that I missed? The hostility in your response just seems so out of proportion to what she wrote. She's new.  Jeez, cut her some slack. Am I missing something here? Are we hazing new members now?

There is no animosity. Nobody is being hazed. She made an unsubstantiated statement and I responded. She actually falsely accused me of being mean to her. We love new members, but I haven't seen where they get to say things old members couldn't say without being challenged.

Look, it's up to each one of us to stand up for what we post if others challenge us. We tend to be direct around here. Geesh.

 

3 hours ago, Lulu22du said:

Thank you Batuityma. I posted earlier about my perception of Jana not being as controlled as some may think. It wasn't me saying it's for sure, just my opinion. I thought this was about discussing thoughts about the Duggars (and other fundie families) and then people giving their opinions in a respectful way.
I can't believe I feel offended by some stranger on the internet, never thought I would...but I'm new and unfamiliar with all this. Thank you for proving that there are mature, nice people on here. I have to admit though I don't think I'll be posting much else because I really don't like being attacked for saying a thought. You're awesome though. Thank you.

I didn't attack you!  I addressed your opinion. I still think more time perusing the board before jumping in might have been useful. Now I feel attacked by you and this other new person, so fuck it. It's always these damn Duggar threads that cause trouble.

And yes, we get snarky with each other sometimes on this snark board. Lots of sarcasm and snark here. It's not personal, its an element of board culture.

[missegeno]

It's also possible she doesn't even live at home. Or if she does live at home, she probably has grandma duggars old room.

If you think Jana has her own room, you're overly optimistic. If you think she might not even live at home, you really need to read up on this family more.

[batuityma]

1 hour ago, SilverBeach said:

There is no animosity. Nobody is being hazed. She made an unsubstantiated statement and I responded. She actually falsely accused me of being mean to her. We love new members, but I haven't seen where they get to say things old members couldn't say without being challenged.

Look, it's up to each one of us to stand up for what we post if others challenge us. We tend to be direct around here. Geesh.

 

I didn't attack you!  I addressed your opinion. I still think more time perusing the board before jumping in might have been useful. Now I feel attacked by you and this other new person, so fuck it. It's always these damn Duggar threads that cause trouble.

Fair enough, but based on the number of down votes you're getting on that post you might want to take a step back and consider that maybe your tone came off more aggressive than what you intended (or was warranted.)

I don't know if you're referring to me as the other new person. I might not post much but I've been a member for longer than you and honestly, I can't remember seeing such antagonism towards a new member for no clear reason. Don't get me wrong, I've seen plenty of shit go down and new members getting bitch slapped, but usually the trigger is more obvious. I'm Just not seeing it here.

I'm sorry if you feel you're being unfairly treated but I think we disagree on what comes off as hostility vs being direct.

[SilverBeach]

27 minutes ago, batuityma said:

Fair enough, but based on the number of down votes your getting on that post you might want to take a step back and consider that maybe your tone came off more aggressive than what you intended (or was warranted.)

I don't know if your referring to me as the other new person. I might not post much but I've been a member for longer than you and honestly, I can't remember seeing such antagonism towards a new member for no clear reason. Don't get me wrong, I've seen plenty of shit go down and new members getting bitch slapped, but usually the trigger is more obvious. I'm Just not seeing it here.

I'm sorry if you feel you're being unfairly treated but I think we disagree on what comes off as hostility vs being direct.

FWIW, this incarnation of Silver Beach does not reflect my prior membership, so I've been on the board several more years than what's shown currently.

Miscommunications happen, and this is one of them. I have an extensive posting history on many different topics. I don't go around this board being a bitch for no reason.

That said, I also  was here before downvotes and upvotes were a thing. I say what I believe and I am woman enough to stand by what I say regardless of popularity. I think all posters should be person enough, as adult people, to stand up for themselves and what they post.

I too have seen a lot of shit go down here, including folks leaving because they were too sensitive for the culture.

However, nobody is going to drive me off FJ, although I will take a break from the Duggar threads. This mess happens every now and then, but I like it here. I'm a tough old broad and it would take more than criticism from strangers to get to me.

[SilverBeach]

5 hours ago, SilverBeach said:

Sorry, this is bullshit. Contrarian WITH REASONS, sure. But just to say something that flies  in the face of years of posting history, with no substantiation, uh no.

Once again, if you read here before joining, you would see that we discuss stuff ad nauseum. 

And if you think what I posted was rude, you may want to rethink this FJ thing. That was tame.

If we are lame, that door you came in through swings both ways. Too bad you got off to a bad start here, most new members fit in just fine. But FJ is not for everyone. 

And by the way, FJ is way bigger than the Duggars, and the stated mission is to discuss the dangers of fundamentalism.

 

4 hours ago, Lulu22du said:

Wow this only my third day here and I guess you're the representative here since you're speaking for everyone. I never post on forums and I can tell this was a huge mistake. Hostile person. Last time I post anything for sure. And if that was tame then I'm definitely out of here. And no offense but you sound like you're a miserable person.

Have a awesome day. Sounds like you need it.

I made no ad hominem attacks against you. You don't know me at all. Yes, offense. If you want to judge me by one post, ok, but that is silly. Hardly speaking for everyone, but I know a little something about board culture after five years. It may be changing though. There was a time I would not have been shot down for my response to you. Oh well.

Not miserable, had an awesome day with Mr. SB, and celebrated my kitty's first birthday. Life is good. I enjoy FJ, but it is not my life and your name calling is of no consequence to me.

I'm not hostile, just straightforward and direct. This one dimensional communication method does not adequately convey tone sometimes, and you and some others totally misread mine. It's ok though. I always get punished for hanging around in the Duggar threads too long.

Enjoy your time here. Plenty of room for everybody.

[batuityma]

35 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

FWIW, this incarnation of Silver Beach does not reflect my prior membership, so I've been on the board several more years than what's shown currently.

Miscommunications happen, and this is one of them. I have an extensive posting history on many different topics. I don't go around this board being a bitch for no reason.

That said, I also  was here before downvotes and upvotes were a thing. I say what I believe and I am woman enough to stand by what I say regardless of popularity. I think all posters should be person enough, as adult people, to stand up for themselves and what they post.

I too have seen a lot of shit go down here, including folks leaving because they were too sensitive for the culture.

However, nobody is going to drive me off FJ, although I will take a break from the Duggar threads. This mess happens every now and then, but I like it here. I'm a tough old broad and it would take more than criticism from strangers to get to me.

I'm not trying to drive you off FJ. You are a frequent poster and I've appreciated reading  your opinions on many threads. In this case I felt you crossed a line into aggressiveness that I thought was undeserved.  That is my opinion. I challenged you on your statements just as you challenged Lulu22du on her statements. I don't think we need to turn this into a huge thing.

I sincerely don't want you to feel ganged up on. FJ is a place where people speak their minds and sometimes disagree. If you say you meant no harm I'll take you at your word. As I said, I've enjoyed many of your contributions here and I respect that you have a strong personality. I do hope you keep posting.

[MadeItOut]

On 2017-6-3 at 5:29 AM, AnnaRuk09 said:

Speaking of Joanna, it looks like the Duggars were with her on their recent trip to Waco!

I've finally realised what it is that's unsettling with this photo - it's likely an optical illusion from the heights, but the way they're standing, especially the head tilts on some of them, it kind of looks like they're all scrutinising Ben having a pee.

[marmalade]

2 hours ago, MadeItOut said:

I've finally realised what it is that's unsettling with this photo - it's likely an optical illusion from the heights, but the way they're standing, especially the head tilts on some of them, it kind of looks like they're all scrutinising Ben having a pee.

The dark brunette isn't Joanna, it's Jenni Hartono. With Sierra et al there, this might be from the first Waco pilgrimage, which was a roadtrip. Ben's shorts are also different. He had green shorts on when they made the pitstop from Waco. They were only on the ground for 3 hours. I doubt he changed clothes. 

[Markie]

5 hours ago, missegeno said:

If you think Jana has her own room, you're overly optimistic. If you think she might not even live at home, you really need to read up on this family more.

I could see them rearranging the female dorm with Jana's bed in the alcove where Jessa and Jinger used to sleep and the young sisters in the larger area. I imagine that the laundry room guest room is used for guests. They seem to have a lot of guests. 

[marmalade]

48 minutes ago, Markie said:

I could see them rearranging the female dorm with Jana's bed in the alcove where Jessa and Jinger used to sleep and the young sisters in the larger area. I imagine that the laundry room guest room is used for guests. They seem to have a lot of guests. 

They have a guest house, and when the Dullards are in Danger America, I'm sure that house is used for the "special" guests. 

[VelociRapture]

Duggars threads seem to bring out the worst in everyone. I kind of wish we could just set fire to this entire forum, roast marshmallows, and enjoy some s'mores as we watch it all burn. 

@Lulu22duI don't see anything horribly wrong with your original post. You stated it as opinion and possibility, not fact. That said, if you haven't already then I think you could benefit from reading around a bit more about this family and IBLP in general. There's a ton to read and learn - I've been here for over two years and I learn something new each day.

Regarding Jim Bob, he barely seems capable of giving his unmarried sons a bit of freedom. No way is Jim Bob going to be ok with an unmarried daughter living outside his control before marriage. 

This is a man who craves control so much that he willingly put his minor daughters at risk to avoid involving proper authorities when Josh confessed his first round of assaults. He denies his children adequate educations because decent educations could lead to his children questioning the way they were raised and the beliefs he (and Michelle) instilled in them - it's why Dictators often muzzle the press and seize complete control of the educational system when they first come into power. He (and Michelle) physically abused their children in order to try and teach them instant obedience - it's highly possible that some of their children (like Jill) are as obedient as they are for that reason.

There is simply no chance of Jana having her own room or her own place. It's also highly unlikely that Jana would have a relationship without her father's approval as well. She may have had a failed courtship or "getting to know you" period that was given the ok by her dad, but we just don't know. 

Anyways, if you're interested here are a few resources. Heres a thread from a while back about Bill Gothard:

Here's a link to Recovering Grace (website documenting the abuse allegations against Gothard as well as personal stories from those who have escaped IBLP/ATI):

http://www.recoveringgrace.org/

Here's another thread by @Bethellalisting various crimes and coverups by the many Fundies we discuss here. Included are the Gothards, Tim Robertson (rapist who married Erin Bates Paine's sister-in-law), Josh Duggar, and the Pearls (whose abusive methods were used and promoted by the Duggar and Bates families.) Also included are coverups involving JimBob and Michelle, Gil Bates, and Dr. Stephen Paine:

Not a perfect list of resources, but it's a start. If you'd like more than I'm sure someone could help point you in the right direction.

[missegeno]

...That said, if you haven't already then I think you could benefit from reading around a bit more about this family and IBLP in general. There's a ton to read and learn...
There is simply no chance of Jana having her own room or her own place. It's also highly unlikely that Jana would have a relationship without her father's approval as well. She may have had a failed courtship or "getting to know you" period that was given the ok by her dad, but we just don't know. 
Anyways, if you're interested here are a few resource...

Snipped but I'm responding to your whole post. Thanks so much for posting this. It's what I should have posted but was tired and didn't have links handy.

Now speaking more generally (not directly in response to you,@VelociRapture ):
Fwiw, I love new posters, but I notice they sometimes don't look before they leap (good practice for any online community or forum). Doing a little reading before jumping in with an uninformed opinion would save a large portion of them from what is often perceived as the wrath of FJ. I read here for years before signing up, and then a while again before posting so it just seems odd to me that other people post with such little knowledge. But I do appreciate that the opinions stated about Jana were stated as opinions or thoughts rather than facts. We have some members who've been around a long time who still love to pose opinion as fact, and that is far more annoying and worthy of wrath, imo.

[Four is Enough]

I didn't know for sure if JB had the questionnaire. I thought it originated with Jill. I seem to recall her talking about an 85 question paper she had to make sure the potential headship was compatible.

Of course, looking at Jill now, I wonder if she could think up 85 questions..

[Lulu22du]

Doing a little reading before jumping in with an uninformed opinion would save a large portion of them from what is often perceived as the wrath of FJ. I read here for years before signing up, and then a while again before posting so it just seems odd to me that other people post with such little knowledge. But I do appreciate that the opinions stated about Jana were stated as opinions or thoughts rather than facts. We have some members who've been around a long time who still love to pose opinion as fact, and that is far more annoying and worthy of wrath, imo.

I'm sorry but that is just ridiculous. If this is the expectation, than why is there not a lengthy outline stating what FJ believes as facts. I mean I had to read through all the rules before I could even sign up. But now there is this unwritten rule that you have to read through other people's opinions before stating your own!?! That's ludicrous and not what this place is supposed to be about. It is unrealistic to expect a busy person to read through 100's of pages of postings just to avoid being told off for stating your own personal opinion. And yes I have been coming here off and on for years.
I have had multiple private messages from members who said they never post to avoid being ripped to shreds by the veterans.
This is a clique not an open discussion. And half the time no body backs up their statement with an actual legit source. If people want to act like they know exactly what goes on with the Duggars, then prove it. Post a video, post a legit article. So frustrating.
And last but not least, to the leaders on this board, why are you allowing hostile responses like I experienced yesterday? Ya'll are fine with sending me multiple warnings about quoting too often or having a signature, but when it comes to people displaying rude hostile behavior to silence those with different opinions, y'all are fine with that.

[ihaveanexamintwodays]

I don't think anyone's implying that you have to share the opinions of everyone else on FJ. I think they're saying you ought to be knowledgeable about what you're posting if you're going to post. It's totally okay to have an opinion on who Jana might be in private, how she may think or live, or what you would ideally like her outcome to be - it is not okay to go around posting things like Jana having her own room at TTH or living independently when that IS something that  a LOT of evidence has provided contrary to (as VelociRapture cited, and more casual evidence exists in many threads + articles/videoclips/etc).

[Lulu22du]

I don't think anyone's implying that you have to share the opinions of everyone else on FJ. I think they're saying you ought to be knowledgeable about what you're posting if you're going to post. It's totally okay to have an opinion on who Jana might be in private, how she may think or live, or what you would ideally like her outcome to be - it is not okay to go around posting things like Jana having her own room at TTH or living independently when that IS something that  a LOT of evidence has provided contrary to (as VelociRapture cited, and more casual evidence exists in many threads + articles/videoclips/etc).

I respect your response, but this statement is so contradictory. At first you're saying it's fine for me to post about an opinion on Jana's living situation (which is what I originally did), but then you end this with saying "it is not okay to go around posting things like Jana having her own room" This does not make sense. I'm confused even more now.

[missegeno]

I'm sorry but that is just ridiculous. If this is the expectation, than why is there not a lengthy outline stating what FJ believes as facts. I mean I had to read through all the rules before I could even sign up. But now there is this unwritten rule that you have to read through other people's opinions before stating your own!?! That's ludicrous and not what this place is supposed to be about. It is unrealistic to expect a busy person to read through 100's of pages of postings just to avoid being told off for stating your own personal opinion. And yes I have been coming here off and on for years.

First off, I'd like to say I appreciate you posting your opinion. My statement wasn't directed specifically at you, but noted an appreciation for you. I did refer more broadly to two types of posters: those who don't look before they leap, and those who state opinion as fact.

For the former, this is basic internet etiquette and is not unique to FJ. Even offline, it's good to know something about the topic at hand before putting your two cents into a conversation about it. I don't generally try to jump into physics conversations between physics nerds because I know it's something I don't know as much about. Instead I try to learn from their knowledge, and from what I learn I can generate thoughts and questions, which then tend to be welcome. People here don't have to be experts, but we've, for the most part, spent some time trying to understand the information available about the families we discuss.

For the latter, the complaint doesn't apply to you and I expressed appreciation for that. This is something that both veteran and novice posters do (and for frequent offenders, the block button is a godsend). It's also something I call people out for offline.

[VelociRapture]

@Lulu22duNo one expects anyone to be an expert in everything here. I mean, the only people who are experts are the ones who lived and escaped this type of lifestyle personally. 

Questions are always welcomed. I've asked many questions over the years and I've never really had an issue. Opinions are also welcomed - but if it concerns a topic where the facts are relatively well known then an opinion that doesn't match the facts likely won't be well received. I'm pretty sure that's what @ihaveanexamintwodayswas saying in her post.

As for the Admins, I can't speak for them, but I don't think they really involve themselves in disputes like this unless things get seriously out of control - like if someone was threatening another poster or something. Otherwise we tend to lean very heavily towards self-policing. 

I think @missegenoand @ihaveanexamintwodaysdid decent jobs of responding on other concerns or issues you mentioned. So I'll just leave it at that.

(I'm hoping this made sense. I tried my best to explain.)

[Coconut Flan]

13 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

As for the Admins, I can't speak for them, but I don't think they really involve themselves in disputes like this unless things get seriously out of control - like if someone was threatening another poster or something. Otherwise we tend to lean very heavily towards self-policing. 

We have noticed, but as you say no one is threatening anyone.  No rules are being broken so self-policing is running its course.

[Pasta]

So... anyway. We once saw a picture of Jinger in what looked to be athletic pants. I wonder if Jana can wear that type of clothing around the house. Like is there a day that she just throws on some sweats? Would she have to wear a skirt over the sweats? I do wonder about Jana. 

[VelociRapture]

4 minutes ago, Pasta said:

So... anyway. We once saw a picture of Jinger in what looked to be athletic pants. I wonder if Jana can wear that type of clothing around the house. Like is there a day that she just throws on some sweats? Would she have to wear a skirt over the sweats? I do wonder about Jana. 

I think it'd be allowed. If they were fine with Jinger wearing them then I don't see why they wouldn't be ok with Jana wearing them too. It would likely depend more on Jana's personal convictions than anything. If she isn't comfortable in pants then she probably wouldn't wear them.

And as far as I know, IBLP has been loosening up in many aspects in order to appear more normal. Female attire is one of those areas.

[Lulu22du]

 

 

Thank you for your response. I'm still confused though. What I originally posted was just me throwing a possibility out there. How do any of us know for certain that Jana isn't living in grandma Duggars old room. I would lovvvveeee to see someone's legit source that states or shows Jana still living in the girls room.

Sure, there is footage from the show years ago that shows her in there, but how do any of us know that her parents changed their mind recently and think it's fine for her to have the extra bedroom?? If there is recent concrete evidence that proves me wrong than I will change my opinion.

But right now this forum just feels so rigid in its thinking.