Bates the 20th

[Melissa1977]

I haven't watched the episode but considering Gil is way more sensitive than Kelly, maybe he was so scared about the fire that he need her wife. Not a very adult decision but probably older kids promised him J&J wouldn't be alone again.

I hate defending this people but kids aged 5&7 are not always supervised, specially in farms or houses with big gardens. Accidents happens in small families too. My cousin lighted a fire in the bathroom while my aunt was in the kitchen! He had stealed a lighter that was in the top of a cabinet.

I know Bates are probably negligent. But the described situation can happen easily with naughty kids in a big house.

[formergothardite]

1 hour ago, Melissa1977 said:

maybe he was so scared about the fire that he need her wife

I'm not going to cut him any slack for this. He is a grown ass man who manages a organization where he got to help cover up mountains of abuse. How sensitive can he be when apparently horrific abuse stories didn't bother him one tiny bit? 

Accidents happen and this could have happened with two totally involved parents, but Gil and Kelly aren't those two parents. They are two parents who create children who they then basically ignore. Part of having kids is you make sacrifices and it was clear Gil wasn't willing to do that. He is selfish, not sensitive. He needed his wife?! His kids needed a father. Can you imagine how terrified those children were? They just suffered a trauma and their dad dumps them to go to Florida because it is all about him all the time. 

[Carm_88]

Gil makes no sense to me. Your children get a lighter and start a fire, so you leave? That makes absolutely zero sense! How does UP even spin this shit? Oh yeah, they are completely normal. 

[JMO]

Just to clarify, Jeb didn't turn 5 until February and Jed just turned 6 in Sept.  So at the time of the fire (which seems to be just after Thanksgiving as per comments in the show) the boys were just 6 and 4 1/2.  Now, there can be some lack of supervision at that age but all the same, the lighters should have been kept out of reach.  

Also, no one has commented on the fact that Lawson was still asleep since he had come home at 5am from a concert.  I'm impressed.  I assume he had a brother with him.  But he didn't say that.  I can't remember which of the older boys was home with him in the episode, I think it was Nathan.  Warden and I think Jackson were with Gil as was Trace I believe.  Then Isiah was with his sister. 

[kmary1]

The impression I got was that the older kids were all still asleep, so I imagine the boys were up and basically alone in the house with no supervision. I found it so odd that 5 days after the fire Gil went to Florida, leaving the kids with no parents around. A fire can be traumatic for anyone, including the older kids who are left to care for the younger ones, and then he just abandons them all because he can't wait a couple more days for Kelly to come home? WTF

[fluffernutter]

5 hours ago, formergothardite said:

I'm not going to cut him any slack for this. He is a grown ass man who manages a organization where he got to help cover up mountains of abuse. How sensitive can he be when apparently horrific abuse stories didn't bother him one tiny bit? 

Accidents happen and this could have happened with two totally involved parents, but Gil and Kelly aren't those two parents. They are two parents who create children who they then basically ignore. Part of having kids is you make sacrifices and it was clear Gil wasn't willing to do that. He is selfish, not sensitive. He needed his wife?! His kids needed a father. Can you imagine how terrified those children were? They just suffered a trauma and their dad dumps them to go to Florida because it is all about him all the time. 

Yeah me and my husband are really close, but when we need to be apart for work or whatever, we put our big boy and girl pants on and deal with it. 

[JMO]

They didn't really clarify if the girls were up at the time of the fire but all the kids were dressed and the older girls appeared to have makeup and hair done.  They didn't have coats outside just blankets so they appeared to have left the house quickly.  

[VineHeart137]

2 hours ago, JMO said:

They didn't really clarify if the girls were up at the time of the fire but all the kids were dressed and the older girls appeared to have makeup and hair done.  They didn't have coats outside just blankets so they appeared to have left the house quickly.  

Yeah, I keep seeing people saying it was early morning and everyone was asleep, but it didn't look that way to me. Everyone was fully dressed, nobody had bedhead, etc. I think people are confused because Lawson said he was sleeping, but that was because he had been out all night and got home at 5 AM.

Also, I realized that the park Alyssa had her baby shower at is one I've been to several times in the past few months with my daughter. (We live about 30 minutes from where the Websters live) Kind of weird to see the Bateses there lol.

[OyToTheVey]

I'm probably gonna get shit for this but I honestly don't understand why a lighter was within reach of 2 very immature boys. They always admit that Jeb and Jubson are spoiled and all that. And yes I know that accidents happen. and I know they have a wood business, and a wooden heater but if they know all of this they needed to make sure that the lighters were out of their reach. It's not only Jeb and Jud in that house. They have grand kids that are always over. They need a locked drawer or a box for that kind of thing. 

[imokit]

With regards to child proofing, multiple Fundy child rearing advice is don't child proof a house, house proof a child. Don't put dangerous things out of reach, train your kids not to touch them.

People such as the Pearls would say that the fire happened due to evil children and possibly a training failure. They wouldn't blame the person who left in reach.

I hope the Bates aren't doubling down on discipline for those boys.

[AlternativeVoice]

Sooo, I see this episode in a different light. I don't think the filming crew was scheduled to be there that day , notice we have no footage of anything until after everyone is out of the house and the fire department has probably been there for a little while. It's more of a recap we hear from the older kids. And I think there was a camera in the car with Gil.  The crew were obviously called after the fact.

1 thing that stood out to me was that Callie said she wanted her mom , not Michaela or one of the other girls , She was scared and immediately wanted her mom. It made me think that maybe Kelly is slightly more involved with the younger ones than we think , even if she does have a ton of help. And maybe callie just formed an intense sisterly bond with Michaela. My daughter who is almost 6 has an intense bond with her older cousin who is now 20 since she was a baby to the point where the only time she would stop crying is when she was with her. Even to this day she seems to prefer her cousin over anyone else including me sometimes.  

 In the scene when Gil realizes what Judson or Jeb is saying  about the lighter (I don't know which is which) you can tell that he is frustrated and shocked but I didn't see any anger initially. I don't know if he was masking it that well or it came later but I was actually surprised I saw not one hint of anger in that specific moment. 

I don't see anything wrong with him leaving a few days after the fire, I think it was more than just he wanted to see his wife , He wanted to see Alyssa and be there for her shower. Alyssa seems to be one of his favorite. Most of the kids are grown and most of them were spread out already anyway and we have no idea if he left the boys at home. I can see him splitting them up. One goes to Zach and Whitney & The other to Erin and chads. But that's just my take. 

[JMO]

@OyToTheVey I agree with you.  The lighters need to be locked up.  I hate the concept of house train the child.  Many people apply it to many circumstances including matches and guns.  Children are naturally inquisitive.  Hell, I went through a phase at 11 where I was lighting fires in a grassy area.  Nothing every happened except my dad found out and I got in trouble.  There have been many child behavioral studies done that show that even with education and training kids are going to touch things if they want to, even if they know they shouldn't.  The Bates have a lot of kids and they probably got complacent by #18/19.  Even if they were keeping the lighter out of reach with the first few (which I doubt), it clearly isn't now.   

[OyToTheVey]

13 minutes ago, JMO said:

@OyToTheVey I agree with you.  The lighters need to be locked up.  I hate the concept of house train the child.  Many people apply it to many circumstances including matches and guns.  Children are naturally inquisitive.  Hell, I went through a phase at 11 where I was lighting fires in a grassy area.  Nothing every happened except my dad found out and I got in trouble.  There have been many child behavioral studies done that show that even with education and training kids are going to touch things if they want to, even if they know they shouldn't.  The Bates have a lot of kids and they probably got complacent by #18/19.  Even if they were keeping the lighter out of reach with the first few (which I doubt), it clearly isn't now.   

I'm not even a kid but if I see a candle in a bar, I'll def play with the wax. It's just a habit. With that many kids in the house, there shouldn't be lighters around.

[JMO]

I just watched the preview for the next episode.  The Bates are forced to live in a hotel for a few weeks because of the fire.  I have no sound card on this computer but we might get more answers. 

[formergothardite]

4 hours ago, OyToTheVey said:

I'm probably gonna get shit for this but I honestly don't understand why a lighter was within reach of 2 very immature boys. They always admit that Jeb and Jubson are spoiled and all that. And yes I know that accidents happen. and I know they have a wood business, and a wooden heater but if they know all of this they needed to make sure that the lighters were out of their reach. It's not only Jeb and Jud in that house. They have grand kids that are always over. They need a locked drawer or a box for that kind of thing. 

The scary part to me is that the house has guns in it. I just don't see them being sticklers for gun safety. 

There is truly no excuse for Gil to run off to Florida leaving his children who have suffered a pretty big trauma without a parent. My grandparents house caught fire when I was around Jeb and Judson's age and even thought I wasn't there it was scary for me for months. These kids were in the house and accidentally started the fire, they needed a parent. It doesn't matter if he split them up or if he favors Alyssa(that would make it worse!), they needed at least one parent to stay with them as they worked through everything that happened. 

3 hours ago, AlternativeVoice said:

It made me think that maybe Kelly is slightly more involved with the younger ones than we think , even if she does have a ton of help. And maybe callie just formed an intense sisterly bond with Michaela.

The thing that makes me doubt this is the old blog where Kelly was more honest about how she didn't raise her children. I'm guessing that as Callie worked through losing the person she viewed as a mother she did become attached to Kelly. But Kelly assigned her unborn children buddies and while Michelle was a buddy to the babies, Kelly never was. If they traveled with a nursing child, the buddy had to travel to care for the child because Kelly didn't. 

[Carm_88]

6 hours ago, AlternativeVoice said:

1 thing that stood out to me was that Callie said she wanted her mom , not Michaela or one of the other girls , She was scared and immediately wanted her mom. It made me think that maybe Kelly is slightly more involved with the younger ones than we think , even if she does have a ton of help.

I think that Kelly may be more involved now. Now that Michael is gone, Tori is courting/in school, Carlin/Josie are in school. Sure there are still older girls but there aren't that many and they are busy. I think that may play a part.

[RosyDaisy]

Kelly should have gotten her ass home after hearing about about the fire. I know nobody was hurt, but they were scared. The bitch just laughed it off. At the shower, everyone treated it like a joke. WTH? Something else that bothered me was the constant talk about serious discussions. That was for the benefit of the cameras. I'm sure there as beatings when the camera crew wasn't there.

[fluffernutter]

This week's episode: They have to live in a hotel for 2 weeks because of the fire. They thought they taught the kids fire safety!  The hotel has limited washing capacities. They are eating lots of fast food! Fires spread in another part of Tennessee, they take the little boys there to show them a house that burned down to show them what can happen and to meet a family that lost their home and give them two totes of toys. The family didn't seem impressed. Go visit the church they are building. It needs work. Now they are heading to The Ark, some ginormous noah's ark exhibit that is supposed to be accurately scaled. A quote from Lawson: "One of the coolest things for me, going through the ark and seeing all the exhibits, is seeing how much research has gone into every single exhibit." There are dinosaurs on the ark too. There's so much chaos with the church they are building and the fire and blah blah blah cue cheesy song this was a great trip!

Next week: Lawson is singing again, this time in Mayberry.

I am wondering at the time line of the hotel stay. So fire happens, Mom is in Florida, Dad's at home, a few days later flies to FL as well cause he misses his help meet. So if they were displaced from the fire where were all the kids then? At a hotel being watched by the older kids? Divvied up between Zach and Erin? I'm shaking my head at all of this. 

[JMO]

If the Ark Encounter wasn't such a science denying bunch of fundie crap I'd go see it. It looked really well put together.  I remember someone on here looked it up and it was expensive. I'm wondering how much was subsidized. I also hope that the Bates gave a large gift card. Two boxes of toys is small gesture for a family with multiple sources of income and multiple seasons on a reality show not to mention the conferences.  

[OyToTheVey]

12 minutes ago, JMO said:

If the Ark Encounter wasn't such a science denying bunch of fundie crap I'd go see it. It looked really well put together.  I remember someone on here looked it up and it was expensive. I'm wondering how much was subsidized. I also hope that the Bates gave a large gift card. Two boxes of toys is small gesture for a family with multiple sources of income and multiple seasons on a reality show not to mention the conferences.  

If it wasn't a bunch of crap about creationism, I'd go see it too. I love interactive museums and it looks really well made. But when I saw the dinosaurs with goats and other animals I couldn't roll my eyes faster or harder tbh. There's pure scientific proof about the age of fossils and they still deny it. That must be some strong kool aid.

[RosyDaisy]

If the Ark Encounter wasn't such a science denying bunch of fundie crap I'd go see it. It looked really well put together.  I remember someone on here looked it up and it was expensive. I'm wondering how much was subsidized. I also hope that the Bates gave a large gift card. Two boxes of toys is small gesture for a family with multiple sources of income and multiple seasons on a reality show not to mention the conferences.  

I'm willing to bet the Arc Encounter comped them in exchange for the publicity.

[HereticHick]

So much $$$ for so much bullshit:

https://arkencounter.com/tickets/

 

 

[RosyDaisy]

Yeah, I think my church will stick to taking the little kids to the Alabama Space and Rocket Center.

[OyToTheVey]

20 minutes ago, RosyDaisy said:

Yeah, I think my church will stick to taking the little kids to the Alabama Space and Rocket Center.

I always wanted to go to space camp for a few days. Think I'm too old now? LOL

[colors_outside15]

My hope is that at the very least the older children with families of their own (Zach, Alyssa, Erin) learned that they have to keep lighters away from children. I think Zach and Whitney might actually childproof because of Zach's job, but I'm not sure about the others, especially when they have more than two children each.

I would hope Gil and Kelly learned their lesson, but we all know that will never happen.