Family Living on Purpose (FLOP?): Erika Shupe pt. 10

[slickcat79]

15 hours ago, TeddyBonkers said:

^ I'm fortunate enough to live close enough to walk to pick my children up. So for me it's "leave work, maintain speed limit OH SHIT IS THAT A MILITARY POLICE CAR pull into my driveway, start walking to get my kids."

The funny thing is, assuming the Shupe littles are going to the closest elementary, Erika is close enough too 

Granted, it might not be workable this time of year, but a short afternoon walk sounds like a nice idea for everyone. And no need for Erika to sit in the car for 30+ minutes, regardless of what she's doing. 

[Hisey]

I walked to school with my young daughter during the year we lived close to her school. We walked with a neighbor, a 9 year old boy and his mom.

This little guy managed to get into all sorts of trouble on this short walk. He was a nice kid, don't get me wrong, but he'd jump on bushes, go out in the street  near cars, lag behind or rush way ahead of us. Kid stuff. 

Maybe that's why Erika doesn't want to walk her six kids home. It's easier to control and corral them if they are snapped into their seats in the car.

[Anonymousguest]

Being in the same general region as Erika, I say no way this year. It's been very cold and extra wet even for us. 

[JillyO]

Sometimes America completely baffles me. We started walking to school alone (with friends, but without parents/adults) in first grade, so around age six to seven. That wasn't way out in the country, but in the suburbs. Everyone did it. Every day. All year. Completely normal.

[Georgiana]

1 hour ago, JillyO said:

Sometimes America completely baffles me. We started walking to school alone (with friends, but without parents/adults) in first grade, so around age six to seven. That wasn't way out in the country, but in the suburbs. Everyone did it. Every day. All year. Completely normal.

I'm not sure where you're from, but I live less than an hour from Erika.  What people not from the American West fail to grasp about how things are here is that everything is often really spread out.  There are normal suburb developments where every plot is over an acre.   People HATE being crowded together here, which means it's not uncommon (in fact it's incredibly common) for schools not to be within walking distance. 

I knew only 1 person who walked to elementary school, 3 to middle school, and the same 3 to high school. It's really NOT normal here, especially as our weather is usually not great for walking. Plus, there's less of a pedestrian/biking culture (EVERYONE drives because again, space), which tends to make walking less safe for kids (or perceived that way).  Not all of our roads have sidewalks, for example, which is pretty essential for a safe journey for kids. 

Even in the heart of the city, people are less tightly packed than what I saw in suburban England.  Things are just less walkable here. 

[JillyO]

5 hours ago, Georgiana said:

I'm not sure where you're from, but I live less than an hour from Erika.  What people not from the American West fail to grasp about how things are here is that everything is often really spread out.  There are normal suburb developments where every plot is over an acre.   People HATE being crowded together here, which means it's not uncommon (in fact it's incredibly common) for schools not to be within walking distance. 

I knew only 1 person who walked to elementary school, 3 to middle school, and the same 3 to high school. It's really NOT normal here, especially as our weather is usually not great for walking. Plus, there's less of a pedestrian/biking culture (EVERYONE drives because again, space), which tends to make walking less safe for kids (or perceived that way).  Not all of our roads have sidewalks, for example, which is pretty essential for a safe journey for kids. 

Even in the heart of the city, people are less tightly packed than what I saw in suburban England.  Things are just less walkable here. 

Point taken. I've lived in California, so I understand that distances are greater and streets are often not very pedestrian-friendly. I was more reacting to someone saying that it's so hard to get kids to cooperate while walking to school with parents accompanying them (if you do live within walking distance). So that just makes me think "by that age, I'd been walking to school alone for three years," you know? It's just a very different approach to what kids can and can't be expected to do, I guess.

[MamaJunebug]

22 minutes ago, JillyO said:

Point taken. I've lived in California, so I understand that distances are greater and streets are often not very pedestrian-friendly. I was more reacting to someone saying that it's so hard to get kids to cooperate while walking to school with parents accompanying them (if you do live within walking distance). ...

Yep, you get it!  And add to that, the fearful nature of someone like Erika who hears about strangers abducting children and goes into protective overdrive. 

What saddens me about her pickup plan is her self-imposed isolation.  She could be meeting new people! 

Editing to add a humble request: where can I read the story of how she's been made to enroll the children? FLOP Blog or FLOP FB?

My phone doesn't go very far back on FB or most blogs.  I'm gonna fire up the desktop and have a look, once i know where,  Desktop time is at a premium here.  Many TIA!!

 

[Anonymousguest]

1 hour ago, MamaJunebug said:

 

Editing to add a humble request: where can I read the story of how she's been made to enroll the children? FLOP Blog or FLOP FB?

My phone doesn't go very far back on FB or most blogs.  I'm gonna fire up the desktop and have a look, once i know where,  Desktop time is at a premium here.  Many TIA!!

 

She hasn't shared that. Everything said here is speculation, gleaned from the few tiny details she's given. Because we live in a fallen world, circumstances outside of her control, etc.

[Howl]

I hadn't checked in on Erika in forever until last week or so, when the evil public school discussion was well underway, sending me into gobsmacked-WTF-da fuq I just read? tailspin.  

Apparently, Crafty Erika practiced strategic silence for many, many months, and then accidentally outed herself by saying something like, when the kids get home from school, which was instantly picked up by one of her home-school-or-die leg humpers. 

Crafty Erika used a generic "circumstances" excuse with zero details to explain a complete 180 degree about face on everything she's ever believed in (homeschool) and on which she bases her life and her blog, leaving us on FJ to indulge in idle speculation, which we're pretty good at, so there's that.  

[Hisey]

2 hours ago, JillyO said:

Point taken. I've lived in California, so I understand that distances are greater and streets are often not very pedestrian-friendly. I was more reacting to someone saying that it's so hard to get kids to cooperate while walking to school with parents accompanying them (if you do live within walking distance). So that just makes me think "by that age, I'd been walking to school alone for three years," you know? It's just a very different approach to what kids can and can't be expected to do, I guess.

Well, if it makes you feel any better, by the end of that year both kids were walking (or biking) independently to school. They would've been about 10 at that point.

I did walk my daughter for most of the year, though, largely because we were new to the area and had just moved from a rather dangerous city where kids walking to the school bus were frequently bothered by strangers with bad intentions. So I was pre-disposed to be cautious, and the new place didn't feel like "home" yet anyway. Plus I (and the other mom) were rather nervous types to begin with.

While my oldest would've protested being accompanied at that age, my youngest-- new to the area--enjoyed having me along. We held hands. She saw snow for the first time. It was good exercise. Certainly there were kids who walked at a younger age all by themselves, but you have to do what's best for you and your kid. 

As for Erika, Anna Marie and even Riley are old enough to walk alone and it might give them a good sense of independence. But it depends on a lot of things we don't know--are there sidewalks? Would they have to cross a busy intersection alone? You gotta consider all these things, not just dismiss them because a child "should" be walking at one age or another.

[Chocolatedefrauded]

Sometimes school districts decide it is too dangerous for kids to walk to school, for various reasons. My old school had kids walk if they lived within a mile. Our current school said no walking because no sidewalks. Then the town put sidewalks in & some kids still take a bus when they can see their home from the school. Less than half a mile is my guess. I don't get it. Walking is good exercise. Of course some of the danger is from parents entering the school grounds on 2 wheels! For some reason there is no sidewalk on school grounds & 2 schools are way back from the road. So I think the most dangerous part is on school grounds.

[smittykins]

Just for kicks and giggles, I checked my school district's walking policy at the beginning of the year(rural upstate New York):

K-3:  all bused

4-5: .2 mile

6: 1 mile

7-12: 1.5 miles (except certain areas without sidewalks or lights)

[feministxtian]

Here in "Sin CIty" most kids walk to the schools. It all depends on a variety of factors...for example, if your child goes to the local school, they usually walk in elementary school UNLESS they're going to a magnet or charter school, then they have a bus. Middle and High schools are sort of the same, but with distance figured in. 

We have crosswalks, crossing guards and all that so kids cross even major 4-6 lane roads while walking to school. 

[MamaJunebug]

@Howl

@Anonymousguest

Thank you both!  I can't tell you how much I appreciate being diverted from a wild goose chase. 

[princessmahina]

11 hours ago, JillyO said:

Sometimes America completely baffles me. We started walking to school alone (with friends, but without parents/adults) in first grade, so around age six to seven. That wasn't way out in the country, but in the suburbs. Everyone did it. Every day. All year. Completely normal.

Even when I lived in an area where I could walk (that was totally safe! Neighborhood on the historic register, neighborhood watch and everything), my parents still didn't let me even cross the street by myself until I was 11. I could only play in the backyard unsupervised if it was fenced in.

Your comment makes me wonder if American parents are more worried (whether with good cause or not) about something happening. Everyone seems very paranoid everywhere I've lived (four states), which I've always taken for granted as being normal. It seems weird to me that people wouldn't constantly be on guard, but maybe it's a cultural thing?

[feministxtian]

22 minutes ago, princessmahina said:

Even when I lived in an area where I could walk (that was totally safe! Neighborhood on the historic register, neighborhood watch and everything), my parents still didn't let me even cross the street by myself until I was 11. I could only play in the backyard unsupervised if it was fenced in.

I was an alligator mom...my kids roamed around all over the place...the only place they weren't supposed to go was to the river...They rode horses at the farm down the road, roamed the woods behind our house, explored the abandoned barn across the street...But, we lived in BFE Indiana and it wasn't unusual to see everybody's kids out and about all over the place...they ran in packs (like wolves).

[usmcmom]

My kids often walked or rode their bikes in elementary school. When they were little, I'd hop on my bike and go along. If they had a lot of books or a project to carry, they rode the bus. Of course, in Illlinois it is actually dangerous to let them walk on some winter days when the wind chill gets below zero. We have had "snow days" without a bit of snow on the ground when it gets dangerously cold. The main concern is for the clueless parents that would drop their kids at a bus stop and leave them waiting for twenty minutes while their noses get frostbite. 

By fifth grade, our students are bused to another small town with whom we are consolidated so walking is out of the question. It is eight miles straight up a major highway. The kids who actually live in that town would often walk or ride bikes, though, when the weather allowed. 

There was a time when our district was going to suspend bus service from our neighborhood.  We were able to keep it when we went to the board and reminded them that our kids had to walk right past the ambulance bays to get to school. An ambulance pulling out on an urgent call, just as a second grader was crossing in front of the parking lot seemed like a disaster waiting to happen. That is why I accompanied my kids when they were little and wanted to walk or ride their bikes. 

[apandaaries]

29 minutes ago, princessmahina said:

Your comment makes me wonder if American parents are more worried (whether with good cause or not) about something happening. Everyone seems very paranoid everywhere I've lived (four states), which I've always taken for granted as being normal. It seems weird to me that people wouldn't constantly be on guard, but maybe it's a cultural thing?

Yes.  American parents are absolutely paranoid, and often without good reason.  Crime rates have dropped significantly since the 1970s, but we still keep kids in more than out due to perceived danger.  I think part of it is our media emphasizing every crime with breathless updates,  part of it is our paranoid culture (fucking Betsy Devos thinks we need guns in schools for bear protection, WTF), and part of it is the pastime of judging other parents. 

We don't look out for our citizens as much as other developed nations do (so few sidewalks, but plenty of guns!), and many fall victim to stereotype threats which aren't based in reality (but which are promoted by the Joker in Chief right now).  

Here's a fun article on American people judging parents on perceived but not real risk: http://www.npr.org/sections/13.7/2016/08/22/490847797/why-do-we-judge-parents-for-putting-kids-at-perceived-but-unreal-risk

[Tree Hugger 2]

On 1/31/2017 at 2:51 PM, Mr. Pink said:

It's in the FLoP group (which I just remembered is private! Am I breaking TOS by divulging that info?)

yes

[front hugs > duggs]

The town I grew up in was quite small- only five square miles and 5,000 total people. I would say maybe 60% of the kids lived within walking distance to the schools which were "downtown". But we had a lot of people who lived in mansion type houses on lots of land. Our school district only had two buses TOTAL for k-8- one for a townhouse development (which was about 2 miles away) and one small section of town also about 2 miles away which was almost in the next town over. While I guess that covers most of the people that live above 1.5 miles away, I always found it strange that it was either "have your 7 year old walk a mile each way to school or drive them yourself". Luckily? it was a very wealthy town where most people were SAHM (not due to religious reasons at all, lots of wall street dads and housewives) so most moms were available to drive drop off and pick ups. I guess we were lucky to live in a busing area because both my parents worked!

[Hisey]

1 hour ago, front hugs > duggs said:

The town I grew up in was quite small- only five square miles and 5,000 total people. I would say maybe 60% of the kids lived within walking distance to the schools which were "downtown". But we had a lot of people who lived in mansion type houses on lots of land. Our school district only had two buses TOTAL for k-8- one for a townhouse development (which was about 2 miles away) and one small section of town also about 2 miles away which was almost in the next town over. While I guess that covers most of the people that live above 1.5 miles away, I always found it strange that it was either "have your 7 year old walk a mile each way to school or drive them yourself". Luckily? it was a very wealthy town where most people were SAHM (not due to religious reasons at all, lots of wall street dads and housewives) so most moms were available to drive drop off and pick ups. I guess we were lucky to live in a busing area because both my parents worked!

Some of the happiest memories of my childhood were the years I could walk to school. I loved the independence of it (I was 5-6). I can still remember the heady feeling of freedom--I can get there myself. I always wanted that for my own kids, too, and my oldest understands that feeling (my youngest would be happy if I drove her everywhere).

With that said, I do find it puzzling that the way some school districts set these boundaries that are really impossible/dangerous. Kids biking or walking sounds great, in theory, but adults have to be willing to spend the money to make it safe for them, by paying for sidewalks or crossing guards, etc. Just because "I did it and survived" doesn't mean every 8 year old can cross a busy street without assistance. I'm sure, even back in the idyllic past, there were kids who got hurt by cars or strangers because people were less informed about these dangers. Though I loved the independence I had walking to school as a first grader, I sometimes traveled alone and I think back at my incredible vulnerability. Most days, I walked with another little girl--not much better, IMO.

This is something I struggle with, since I want to give my own kids freedom, but I also realize, hey, animals try not to leave their young alone,and they do so for a reason. The young are more vulnerable.

[Georgiana]

@JillyO, I'm really sorry if I sounded rude last night. It was 1 am and I was freejinger-ing in my insomnia.  I didn't mean to be rude, but that's not my best wordsmithing time. 

Basically being from near Erika, I just wanted to point out that there's a lot of reasons kids don't walk that aren't present from what I've seen in my visits across the pond. 

My second cousins are also driven/accompanied by their mom when the school says they should walk because she doesn't think the route is safe...and while American parents are totally paranoid, I agree with her.  Cuts in funding have made many schools cut bus service to "questionable" students. 

A lot of the issue around here too is that there's a culture of not walking to school.  Our grandparents were bussed, our parents were driven, and there's a small percentage of students who even can walk.  It creates this culture where walking to school is seen as NOT normal and not an idea many parents are comfortable with.

Sorry again, and thank you for being so committed to polite discourse in my rudeness!  

[mango_fandango]

I walked to school. Even when I was in Year 6 (fifth grade) I went with my mum because my brother went to the same school and was four years younger- I think she thought it wouldn't be fair for me to have full responsibility for him, as there was a fairly busy road to cross. When I went to secondary school I had an earlier start time so I went on my own. A lot of the girls took the bus or train because they lived further away. 

[DaniLouisiana]

I walked Kiddo to and from school every day 6-8 grades and sometimes walked to get him after we transferred him to public school from homeschool for sophomore/junior year.  It gave us time to catch up without Dad or sibs and me a reason to go walk-this was before I finally got a dog. I drove him in bad weather.

[anachronistic]

When I was two, a 10 year old girl was snatched off the street of my quiet, semi-rural-suburban town. They found her bones twenty or so years later, but my parents, and the parents of my town, never, ever forgot holding hands and walking through woods and fields as they searched. I grew up knowing her name. That being said, I went to the bus stop alone kindergarten on, biked the two miles to elementary school at 10, walked or biked the mile to middle school - all the while batshit terrified of being kidnapped or murdered. I knew my parents had to work, I knew I had to be a big girl, and I never told my parents how I'd race down the street or plan good hiding spots along the way.

so yeah. If I had kids, I'd walk with them as long as they'd ever let me.