Family Living on Purpose (FLOP?): Erika Shupe pt. 10

[ChunkyBarbie]

1 hour ago, MamaJunebug said:

Depending upon how he tested, he might be in 4th or 5th grade in an elementary school, right? In which case his small stature would be  a lot less noticeable. 

If he was assessed to be that far behind, I imagine the school would then assess him to determine why he was so far behind.  They would need to determine if he qualified for special education or just needed extra tutoring.  Even though he is small and sheltered, it would be a huge deal to have a child in a class about 4 years older than his peers.  Especially when he reached high school age.

My niece was just eighteen her senior year, and she could legally check herself out of school.  Then there is the dating aspect...things gets complicated and can get legal with such an age difference and dating.  The school district can't just say, well he is a Shupe kid and won't be allowed to date. Of course,  rules and policies differ every where. 

[desertvixen]

I agree with @Hisey - I hope everything works out, but the transition is bad enough for kids who have been in public school their whole lives, so I hope he's getting whatever helps he needs (and a sympathetic ear at home).

It's definitely better to have the rough middle school experience and be okay in high school and later on in life.

 

[Granwych]

9 hours ago, desertvixen said:

Going right into middle school after being taught at home seems like hell.

We had a concept in Las Vegas known as "sixth-grade centers" that were only sixth-graders (and kindergarteners) but that had to do with busing and school integration, not making it easier for kids.  I attended sixth-grade near the end of this process.

(if anyone is interested: http://digital.library.unlv.edu/aae/sixth-grade-centers )

I'd agree with Granwych that middle school is the hardest part for kids.  My MiniVixen is going to be a sixth-grader next year (gulp).

It was so odd--when wychling entered 6th grade, the kids were so small.  And when they graduated to high school after the 8th grade, many of those kids looked like Amazons.

1 hour ago, desertvixen said:

I agree with @Hisey - I hope everything works out, but the transition is bad enough for kids who have been in public school their whole lives, so I hope he's getting whatever helps he needs (and a sympathetic ear at home).

It's definitely better to have the rough middle school experience and be okay in high school and later on in life.

 

I also think that the support services in middle school are more intense than in high school.

On 1/26/2017 at 8:58 AM, anachronistic said:

I don't think we get polio in the US anymore, actually.

Kids still get the polio vaccine.

[mango_fandango]

Even if the kids are enjoying public school, it can't have been easy at the beginning. I don't know how this would work, but I'd imagine that the kids would be placed in the grades corresponding to their ages, so Brandon in 8th, Anna Marie in 5th at least for now, with catch-up work given as and when. To me, it'd be hard to be placed in a class with kids much younger than me, who have also always been in PS and are used to the system. 

Of course I could be totally wrong. 

[Anonymousguest]

@Lurky I believe it's complete conjecture, based on his size (??) And his bad hand writing and poor spelling.

@MamaJunebug Wouldn't Brandon be in 8th grade? He's 13. My 12yr old, who will turn 13 by the end of the school year is in 7th. Depending on his birthday he could be in 7th. There is no way they would place him in 4th or 5th grade, no matter how he tested. If he was that far behind he'd have to be in special ed. classes. They would give him an aide in main stream classes before holding back 4 grade levels. And again, there is not even a hint from Erika that any of the kids have special needs, or are behind in grade level. 

[Queen Of Hearts]

Someone posted on the FLOP (teeheehee) Facebook page that they saw the Shupe kids at the school's movie night and just wanted to applaud Erika for how well behaved they were.  That actually made me happy to read as it must mean that Erika is letting the kids do some school activities outside of school hours. 

[Hisey]

58 minutes ago, Anonymousguest said:

@Lurky I believe it's complete conjecture, based on his size (??) And his bad hand writing and poor spelling.

@MamaJunebug Wouldn't Brandon be in 8th grade? He's 13. My 12yr old, who will turn 13 by the end of the school year is in 7th. Depending on his birthday he could be in 7th. There is no way they would place him in 4th or 5th grade, no matter how he tested. If he was that far behind he'd have to be in special ed. classes. They would give him an aide in main stream classes before holding back 4 grade levels. And again, there is not even a hint from Erika that any of the kids have special needs, or are behind in grade level. 

Actually, there is. Erika used to belong to a special needs education facebook page. Maybe she still does, I don't know.

[Hisey]

I always felt that Brandon looked like a sweet, sweet boy in the photos. Generally, he was lumped together with the little kids. There'd be Karen and Melanie, standing off to one side at a kiddie activity, looking kinda bored. Then there'd be Brandon, working happily away at whatever activity the little kids are doing. He always had a happy smile on his face while he decorated a zuccinni or ran through the pumpkin patch. 

That kind of little-kid sweetness doesn't really cut it in middle school. Kids there generally strive to be cool or blase. Having the right "look" is important. Many of them "date." Very few of them would let their mother take their picture while they were decorating a zuke with googly eyes alongside their six-year old sibling. AND post it online! Never.

I'm not saying it's bad for a 13-year old to act this way. I'm saying that if my 13-year old had been sheltered all his life, barely allowed outside to play, and this child played a great deal with younger siblings and had a certain lack of sophistication. . . that coupled with unusually small stature....I'd be worried about his transition to middle school. And I'm worried about Brandon's. As I said, he seems very sweet.

As for his note to his mother. . . sorry, but it is really concerning that he'd spell "mommy" as "Momie"  (If it were a funny nickname, like "Marmie", I'm sure Erika would've explained this). First of all, most 12-year old boys don't use the term "Mommy" because they dont' want to seem babyish. 

Secondly, most learned how to spell that word years before. My daughters, at 12, were expected to write research papers with footnotes and bibliographies. They, and their classmates, were well past the stage of misspelling simple words. I don't know whether it's Erika's failure at homeschooling or whether Brandon has a  learning issue. To say it's normal is just putting your head in the sand. Even worse, Erika didn't see anything unusual about it, which makes me wonder if her older kids were equally illiterate at that age.

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If we know he's been diagnosed, that's one thing, but I am always very, very hesitant to diagnose learning disabilities or special needs from thing like his height, 

Why would anyone diagnose a learning disability from someone's height? That makes no sense. Are the two connected in some way?

[JillyO]

I am always baffled when I hear you Americans talk about what fresh hell school seems to be in the US. I certainly didn't go to school in some utopian soap-bubble candyland, but school was generally a very happy time (and not just for me, but for most everyone). I can really only think of one girl who was bullied during my entire time at PS, and that was quickly stopped. No one ever got beaten up. Sure, there were cliques and different friend groups, but everybody found their people and there certainly wasn't any kind of war going on between groups. No jocks constantly bullying the nerds or whatever. I just don't get what's wrong with the school system in the US that such things seem to be almost universal.

[Lurky]

 

@Hisey I genuinely think you're reaching from the spelling of Momie to major learning difficulties that mean the child shouldn't be allowed to go to school because he's so vulnerable.  We just don't have enough information - we haven't seen enough of his schoolwork to know if that one piece of "evidence" was worrying, or a one-off, or, I dunno, the say he had hurt his hand. 

Anyway, it's not just me that thinks it - here's the FJ rule:
 

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Do Not Diagnose Children

Please do not internet armchair diagnose children from pictures.   Most of these kids have no control over anything in their environment and no say in whether their lives are up for public consumption.   The last thing they need is to google themselves down the road and find out a bunch of strangers on the internet think they were on the autism spectrum or some other random diagnosis.

 

 

[Howl]

Any speculation that all this normalness in Shupedom was an Executive Order from Mr. Headship Shupe?  I mean MOVIES OUTSIDE THE HOME, people! 

Might that mean that the feud with the in-laws is over? 

[Clementine]

Their new page is down for me. Does it work for you?

[feministxtian]

IF I remember correctly, children being enrolled at a PS for the first time are usually tested to see where their strengths and weaknesses are, and appropriate plans are made. When I enrolled my kids in PS when we moved back to VA, the kids were tested even though I had all their records from PS in Indiana. So, I'm going to make an educated guess that the kids were probably evaluated. 

[elliha]

2 hours ago, Howl said:

Any speculation that all this normalness in Shupedom was an Executive Order from Mr. Headship Shupe?  I mean MOVIES OUTSIDE THE HOME, people! 

Might that mean that the feud with the in-laws is over? 

I am a big proponent of that theory. Before the time when we think the change happened Bob looked worn down and sad in all pictures. That changed some time after "the change". While I don't think that everything is down to him, I am sure some of it is. I think that it was the older girls who talked to him and made him aware that they were unhappy and Bob who had the separation from his parents in memory said f- it and made sure that the same thing wouldn't happen to him and Erika. I don't know if that relationship with him and them has been rekindled but one can hope that when Erika goes for her retreats Bob takes the kids to see grandma and grandpa on his side. That would be awesome but I would be satisfied with them just getting to do something that Erika does not approve like Jelly Bean portions bigger than one at the time...

[Chevreuil]

I think that schools are moving away from putting kids back and more towards things like ILPs. I would think any children of the shupe's that required intervention would have an ILP and extra help to catch them up.

[Jess]

32 minutes ago, Chevreuil said:

I think that schools are moving away from putting kids back and more towards things like ILPs. I would think any children of the shupe's that required intervention would have an ILP and extra help to catch them up.

I second this not an educator but have many family members who are and the topic came up at a family gathering recently. The consencious was new research showed being held back was worse for children's outcomes then letting them stay with peers even if far behind. 

Plus they would never hold back four years at least in my state you can't stay in PS after 21 it's not tax payer funded. I believe my district sends anyone over 20 to an alternative program on their birthday even if they are in their last semester. They would never set him up to have no chance at a normal hs diploma even if he couldn't read or write at all.

[mango_fandango]

They have been to the cinema before (e.g. the oldest five seeing The Force Awakens, the whole family seeing Finding Dory) but always as a family group. 

Now I'm intrigued as to whether any of the kids will be good at sports and will be allowed to join teams, etc. 

[crawfishgirl]

Regarding Brandon being behind due to his spelling:  my 6th grader is in the Gifted program, mainly because of her math skills.  She loves math and doing math problems and games.  However, she wanted to focus on it and didn't enjoy reading and writing.   Her teachers and I had to encourage her to put more effort into them - she would just speed through those topics to finish them, and not put enough effort into what she was doing.  We made her slow down and pay closer attention to her work.  I think that many kids just prefer one subject over another, and develop quickly in some areas, and slowly in others.  She finally turned into a good reader, but her spelling skills are still poor.  If she was judged solely on her spelling ability, she would appear to be behind, but she is not.

Regarding being tested when kids enter a new school district - we moved the kids from a private school to a public one when they were mid-elementary school age.  We gave the new school their test scores and grades from the old one, and that was sufficient.  No placement testing was required.  I wouldn't be surprised if they test homeschoolers, however, since the quality of that education is less predictable.  It probably also varies by district.

 

[desertvixen]

@Granwych, due to the way our school was set up, I may have been mistaken for a kindergarten student, more than once.  (combo of having been skipped a grade and being small for my age)

@JillyO, the schools aren't necessarily Lord of the Flies.  However, bullying is an issue.  It was an issue when I was a kid and it is now.  The difference seems to be a lot of parents of the bullies  are all "my precious snowflakes would never".  It also seems like the bullies have gotten better at provoking their victims into making the first physical move, and being the one who gets in trouble.

[Hisey]

6 hours ago, Lurky said:

 

@Hisey I genuinely think you're reaching from the spelling of Momie to major learning difficulties that mean the child shouldn't be allowed to go to school because he's so vulnerable.  We just don't have enough information - we haven't seen enough of his schoolwork to know if that one piece of "evidence" was worrying, or a one-off, or, I dunno, the say he had hurt his hand. 

Anyway, it's not just me that thinks it - here's the FJ rule:
 

 

Sure, I'm sorry. I don't want to do anything to hurt Brandon or any of those other young Shupes.

I was trying to say that I was worried about his transition. Because of my poor writing, it was heard as a question about whether he should attend school, something I lack knowledge to comment on.

[mango_fandango]

I see what @Hisey meant. Brandon looks to be a small, sweet kid, and middle school can be quite rough, so suddenly having to transfer into the final year after a whole life being homeschooled can't have been easy. Obviously we don't know how he's faring- he could well have found a nice group of friends and be doing pretty well.

I'm not American and so haven't had the same experience, so I'm kinda glad I didn't go to middle school. I found transitioning from primary to secondary quite hard and was very shy and decidedly not popular. I don't think I'd have fared very well in an American middle school! 

[refugee]

3 hours ago, feministxtian said:

IF I remember correctly, children being enrolled at a PS for the first time are usually tested to see where their strengths and weaknesses are, and appropriate plans are made. When I enrolled my kids in PS when we moved back to VA, the kids were tested even though I had all their records from PS in Indiana. So, I'm going to make an educated guess that the kids were probably evaluated. 

But not necessarily. Our kid was not tested, just put in an age-appropriate (high school) grade to sink or swim. Thankfully things went swimmingly, not because I'd done such a bang-up job homeschooling, but because the kid found their stride and basked in the light of dedicated, gifted, appreciative teachers. I don't know how we lucked out, but that public high school was the best thing that happened to that particular kid.

ETA: Felt the need to add that this was not a public high school in a desirable neighborhood with lots of $$$, but one with lots of challenges, in a poor neighborhood, including lots of students who didn't speak English well.

[feministxtian]

27 minutes ago, refugee said:

But not necessarily. Our kid was not tested, just put in an age-appropriate (high school) grade to sink or swim.

My high schooler wasn't tested...but my younger ones were (5th grade and 2nd grade). 

[Gobsmacked]

3 hours ago, feministxtian said:

IF I remember correctly, children being enrolled at a PS for the first time are usually tested to see where their strengths and weaknesses are, and appropriate plans are made. When I enrolled my kids in PS when we moved back to VA, the kids were tested even though I had all their records from PS in Indiana. So, I'm going to make an educated guess that the kids were probably evaluated. 

Same as England ( 40 years ago),  I hope that hasn't changed?

My two sibs and I had to start at a new school in a different education authority. We were evaluated. Then all put in the wrong years anyway!! The mistake was discovered by a vigilant new teacher thankfully. We all had catching up to do though.

[Sylvan]

On 1/28/2017 at 1:16 PM, Lurky said:

(I have been wondering if maybe Karen going out to work has made them re-evaluate things too.  I still say, if I were the older girls, who bore the brunt of the experimental lifestyle, and had to sister-mom, I'd be resentful thaat my siblings had opportunities I was denied)

Has Erika homeschooled since the older girls were little? Is homeschooling all they know?

If I were Melanie or Karen I'd be furious. Maybe not right away, but eventually all the things that they missed out on are going to sink in. Friends, sports, exposure to kids from different backgrounds, exposure to different world views, a quality education, 7-hour breaks from caring for their siblings, wearing comfortable clothes, teachers who ENCOURAGE them to read fiction (was it Erika who restricted fantasy novels or am I thinking of a different fundie?) , and just being a normal kid. It's going to be hard watching their siblings grow up with more opportunities and freedom than they were allowed to have. 

Erika owes those girls an apology.