Family Living on Purpose (FLOP?): Erika Shupe pt. 10

[alexandracabot]

17 hours ago, ricky_ticky said:

Lurker here - just catching up with all of the changes at the Shupe's. Has anyone put together a falling out with Bob's parents and kids being in PS? Is it possible that the elder Shupes disagreed with the SOTDRT especially given the children's isolation and possible learning disability? I imagine they could have threatened or actually sued in court to force them to PS. 

I remember long ago reading a multi-part series about Erica and Bob's early marriage, their decision to be quiverful, etc. but I don't specifically recall what was said about in-laws on either side.

You can't force parents to send their kids to public school in court, and I don't see how threats would do it either. The falling-out with Bob's parents happened years ago. I don't understand what you're saying.

[FunFunFundie]

People have questioned the pants on the FLOP page - Erika carefully explains that there has been no change in ideology! Just that Karen and Melanie make their own choices, they don't want the younger girls to be made fun of in school, and she herself doesn't want to be legalistic.

Which is a huge change in ideology.

[ViolaSebastian]

14 minutes ago, FunFunFundie said:

People have questioned the pants on the FLOP page - Erika carefully explains that there has been no change in ideology! Just that Karen and Melanie make their own choices, they don't want the younger girls to be made fun of in school, and she herself doesn't want to be legalistic.

Which is a huge change in ideology.

Yeah, pretty sure that Jesus didn't have a "unless you get made fun of in school" clause. Of course, he didn't say that women must exclusively wear skirts, either, sooo...

[Anonymousguest]

3 hours ago, FunFunFundie said:

People have questioned the pants on the FLOP page - Erika carefully explains that there has been no change in ideology! Just that Karen and Melanie make their own choices, they don't want the younger girls to be made fun of in school, and she herself doesn't want to be legalistic.

Which is a huge change in ideology.

LOL! It is a huge change in ideology! If anyone had given her the "but my kids will be made fun of at school" excuse a couple years ago she would have gone for the heart on both the school and dresses issue.

[mango_fandango]

There's a new post on the blog about preparing for twins. She's had a twin post before but it's a bit different. She mentions how baby A (Lacey, I think) came out fine but baby B needed a vacuum (guessing that means ventouse). Generally it's things like buying a double stroller etc.

There's also a whole paragraph about how she deliberately chose an OB who was "specially trained to avoid c-sections". 

 When I chose my first OB years ago I intentionally chose a doctor who was specially trained to avoid c-section. And I had the conversation with my next OB that I always want to avoid c-section unless there is an emergency. I am confident that most doctors have your best in mind… however, they can also be way too quick in my opinion to jump to doing a c-section on moms. C-section is predictable for them, generally much faster, and they make a lot more money. Sorry but that’s my opinion. And I’ve been told many times that many doctors sometimes jump to this too fast. If you can avoid surgery that will make your recovery *so* much easier. It should just be talked about in advance, not only with your own doctor but with the back-up doctor as well. Everyone should understand that you do not want this if at all possible. And once you’ve had a c-section, it’s almost a guarantee you’ll need to have one the next time. I’m just saying, if it’s avoidable, avoid it; and don’t risk landing in one simply because you didn’t want to bring it up before hand.

What about women who have ELCSs? (Elective ones). 

There is also the "possibly" of bed rest. Oh Erika.

[smittykins]

[sarcasm]Well, women who have elective C-sections just aren't Godly enough, because they're not giving birth the way He intended.[/sarcasm].

I wonder what her thoughts are about pain meds in childbirth?

[mango_fandango]

34 minutes ago, smittykins said:

[sarcasm]Well, women who have elective C-sections just aren't Godly enough, because they're not giving birth the way He intended.[/sarcasm].

I wonder what her thoughts are about pain meds in childbirth?

She's said before she used an epidural with the twins. But then I think that may be fairly common with twin births that have been induced IDK. She's never mentioned anything about her other births at all, apart from the fact that Karen's was long and hard and gave her nightmares for a long time (didn't stop her getting pregnant with Melanie four months after giving birth though). 

She's never been one of those fundies who's all gung-ho about home birth. Never even mentioned it, I believe. Michelle Duggar used the hospital from the get go (except for Jinger and Joseph). 

[ActualReality]

On 2/28/2017 at 1:58 PM, fundiefollower said:

FB has pictures from their family trip to the Seattle Aquarium.  The girls are ALL in pants.... yes that includes ERIKA.  It was hard to find one her showing her lower half but one of the pics shows part of her, from a back/side angle and you can see she has on athletic type pants with a stripe down the side.  The jacket is the same as all of the waist up pics of her posted in the series so I'm sure it's her.  I wonder how she felt with everyone staring at her crotch all day, *smile*.  Her hair was on point and extra "wispy" so maybe that saved her.

Aside from all of the kids, they look like a normal family. 

Honestly i'm willing to bet that the older girls are at least some part of the cause of the major changes in the house.  All along she's basically said that she would control things until they got older.  As they moved into becoming teenagers she's seriously clammed up about them.  In the old blog people would ask questions about the older girls and she would all but ignore the questions.

Later when someone asked her about the girls wearing pants she said that they had decided to give the girls a choice.  Now in what world does she seem like a woman who would voluntarily give those kids a choice?

Whether they realize it or not the older girls have a lot of power.  It's not like Erika can take care of that many kids by herself.  She needs the older girls buy in to get anything done.  Working outside in "the world" gives the girls all kinds of access to things that mom would NEVER allow.

I was brought up in a conservative christian home.  I know how this all goes.  The parents live in the delusion that they've "programmed" you to do/think certain things.  They're strict as hell and then the first chance you get you go nuts!  The parents believe that because they've raised you "right" you won't go too far off track.  

Proverbs 22:6 says "Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it."  Fundy parents LIVE AND DIE by this verse.  They also believe that if the kids "depart" then it's because the parent's didn't train them properly.  Apparently free will doesn't cross their mind.

 

[ActualReality]

On 3/2/2017 at 5:28 PM, Howl said:

Teri has discussed her depression on the titus2 web site.  Here's her article A Schedule Can Help With Depression: 

http://articles.titus2.com/a-schedule-can-help-with-depression/

It just makes me sad that she didn't get appropriate medical help; she does say that progesterone cream helped immensely.  

A quick google search shows that it isn't unusual for OCD  to be co-morbid with depression. 

 

To my eye the mental illness piece has always been PAINFULLY evident.  OCD and depression go hand in hand.  Stir in surly teenagers and it's a formula for disaster!

If you recall she talk now takes "retreats" at her parents house every now and then.  that SCREAMS mental health issues to me.  Not that she doesn't deserve a respite.  God knows she does!  EVERYTHING about the changes in her family and blog say "nervous breakdown" to me.

She's also trying to rebrand herself and take the focus off the kids.  That's all well and good but it takes a LONG TIME to build the kind of audience she enjoys.  Going from OCD fundy mom to household tip mom is quite a shift.  Keeping a house full of kids in ship shape was her brand.  The whole hooks for backpacks deal is nothing special at all.

[mango_fandango]

33 minutes ago, ActualReality said:

To my eye the mental illness piece has always been PAINFULLY evident.  OCD and depression go hand in hand.  Stir in surly teenagers and it's a formula for disaster!

If you recall she talk now takes "retreats" at her parents house every now and then.  that SCREAMS mental health issues to me.  Not that she doesn't deserve a respite.  God knows she does!  EVERYTHING about the changes in her family and blog say "nervous breakdown" to me.

She's also trying to rebrand herself and take the focus off the kids.  That's all well and good but it takes a LONG TIME to build the kind of audience she enjoys.  Going from OCD fundy mom to household tip mom is quite a shift.  Keeping a house full of kids in ship shape was her brand.  The whole hooks for backpacks deal is nothing special at all.

Oh yeah. We've discussed Erika having issues before. I'm not surprised. Fundieism seems like the ideal breeding ground for a number of mental illnesses.

[Chevreuil]

On 10/03/2017 at 8:21 AM, mango_fandango said:

She's said before she used an epidural with the twins. But then I think that may be fairly common with twin births that have been induced IDK. She's never mentioned anything about her other births at all, apart from the fact that Karen's was long and hard and gave her nightmares for a long time (didn't stop her getting pregnant with Melanie four months after giving birth though). 

She's never been one of those fundies who's all gung-ho about home birth. Never even mentioned it, I believe. Michelle Duggar used the hospital from the get go (except for Jinger and Joseph). 

When i had my twins (vaginally) it was recommended to have an epidural incase twin B flips to breech after Twin A is born. If i didnt have the epidural, they would have to put me under general anesthetic because they would have to get baby out quickly. It's also the reason i gave birth in an operating room instead of the birthing rooms. Everything went well in my case, Baby B came out no problems 4 minutes after baby A but i did a lot of research and preparation incase i did end up with a c-section. (and i have so much respect for c-section moms! I cant imagine caring for a newborn(s) after abdominal surgery!)

[Loveday]

1 hour ago, Chevreuil said:

When i had my twins (vaginally) it was recommended to have an epidural incase twin B flips to breech after Twin A is born. If i didnt have the epidural, they would have to put me under general anesthetic because they would have to get baby out quickly. It's also the reason i gave birth in an operating room instead of the birthing rooms. Everything went well in my case, Baby B came out no problems 4 minutes after baby A but i did a lot of research and preparation incase i did end up with a c-section. (and i have so much respect for c-section moms! I cant imagine caring for a newborn(s) after abdominal surgery!)

I had an emergency c-section with my first, and to be honest, in my case it wasn't that bad. Of course, my husband did a LOT of baby care for the first week or so until he had to go back to work, something I can't imagine most fundie husbands doing. And I also didn't have twins; I imagine things are a bit different with TWO to care for!   But I healed MUCH quicker from the section than I did from the VBAC with my second child. I was up and about with no problems at all once I realised my insides weren't going to fall out if I so much as moved! LOL.

Preparation was definitely the key, though. Like you, I didn't ignore the chapters on c-sections in all the pregnancy books I read. I devoured every bit of info just in case. And I've recommended that to everyone I know who's ever been pregnant. You just never know what's going to happen during delivery.

[grandmadugger]

Figure not much is going on with the Shupe family only to find out that the kids are in school, Erika is wearing pants, and she's not changed a bit ideologically except she has.  Ahh, Erika how I've missed you.

[Howl]

On 3/10/2017 at 3:52 PM, mango_fandango said:

Oh yeah. We've discussed Erika having issues before. I'm not surprised. Fundieism seems like the ideal breeding ground for a number of mental illnesses.

Someone upthread mentioned that in some of her video posts she looked like she was about to cry at the beginning.  Idle speculation post:  Erika was simply too verklempt to continue to homeschool all the kids, so off to public school for the lot of them.   Naturally, she would not want to admit to becoming overwhelmed by her many blessings, but she now has lots of time during the day to do things like put in little pegs for each child to hang his or her little back pack.  On the upside, her kids get to play at recess and P.E.!   

[divadivine]

33 minutes ago, Howl said:

Someone upthread mentioned that in some of her video posts she looked like she was about to cry at the beginning.  Idle speculation post:  Erika was simply too verklempt to continue to homeschool all the kids, so off to public school for the lot of them.   Naturally, she would not want to admit to becoming overwhelmed by her many blessings, but she now has lots of time during the day to do things like put in little pegs for each child to hang his or her little back pack.  On the upside, her kids get to play at recess and P.E.!   

I agree. I don't think Erika could control all the kids anymore. They're getting bigger. You can't put the two youngest in the play yard (AKA: baby jail).  We know she didn't believe in letting them go outside, so all those kids in that small house without the help of Karen and Melanie to lead cracker math or clean-up or meal prep. Erika couldn't handle it and lost her shit. 

Now she can clean and organize and workout... Without the kids. 

[Hisey]

Her latest post makes me think she hasn't changed much.

All that effort into trying to manipulate your kids into eating certain things and not others. Uh, Erika, how about involving the kids in the lunch making process and (at hte same time) educating them about what makes a healthy meal?  "It's important to eat at least some of your sandwich so you don't feel bad in the afternoon", etc etc.

Once I visited my 8 year old at school and had lunch with her. Every single child at the lunch table (including my own) ate their dessert first. The world did not end. They went on to eat their sandwiches, yogurts, etc. My kid also ate her fruit, because she likes fruit. There was no need to plan, plan, plan to make sure she only ate carbs, or ate protein first, or didn't trade her food, or throw it away. I also consulted my kid and tried to pack food she liked--I didn't make a bunch of rigid choices and then excuse them away by saying my child didn't NEED variety or needed to eat the same lunch every day to develop good character.

As for the chips she mentions, I think she reveals her own bias. SHE thinks chips are desirable, so she packs them, but only occasionally. Back then, I bought all the food in the house, and I would never have bought chips for school lunches. I didn't eat them, or consider them healthy food, so why would I give them to my kids? 

[feministxtian]

My kids took PB&J, fruit and a "goodie" for lunch OR bought the hot lunch at school. When we moved back to VA, we qualified for free breakfast/lunch at school so they ate at school. They didn't get soda or chips because at the time I couldn't afford it. Their drink choices were milk, water, juice or sweet tea (yes, I am a southern girl). They didn't suffer...BUT...they were also free to help themselves, and boy they did!!! I'd rather have a kid have a full belly (on healthy things) than telling a child they have to wait until the "appropriate time". Oh HELL NO! Cranky kid vs. content kid with food in them. 

The only "rule" we had at dinner time was they had to eat one bite of everything before they could take a drink...because they'd drink all their drink and not have room for dinner. They knew the rule, I rarely had to remind them and that was that. 

When I was in Indiana, with the 5 kids, we went through a couple of pounds of apples, another couple of pounds of bananas (their favorites), 3-4 gallons of milk a week. In VA with just the 3...it wasn't quite as much...until the boys hit puberty, but that's another story. 

 

[Antimony]

I don't see why Erika thinks this stuff is complicated enough to require an entire manifesto for it. It's maddening. There is even a "bag lunch" section at my grocery store with like fruit cups and puddings or whatever. If they throw away lunch, they'll get hungry and figure it out eventually. 
 

I packed lunch for a long time. I don't like peanut butter (yes,  know) so it was all kinds of other stuff. Sometimes it was leftovers. Like, jeez. Not rocket science. I don't think I bought lunch but 6 times through all of public school. 

In other news, I was shockingly accepted to the FLOP group which is strange because I was blocked by LFOP and had Erika personally message me because I dare say that not all fiction was "dessert" reading and post a reading list from a Christian private school. 

[lawlifelgbt]

Who else thinks that the kids "clamor" for the job of packaging bulk chips and crackers into smaller bags, so they can then eat some while mom is occupied, and/or give themselves a larger serving?

Just saying. She still sounds like a food control freak.

[feministxtian]

Holy shit! I didn't know that packing lunches took that much effort! Damn!!! 

[16strong]

3 hours ago, feministxtian said:

Holy shit! I didn't know that packing lunches took that much effort! Damn!!! 

For someone with OCD and depression, it does. For Erika, everything has to be perfect and done exactly the right way, or else she feels anxious. Thus, simple tasks often take a lot longer. And, for a depressed person, even putting silverware in the dishwasher can be a monumental task. Can't believe I'm saying this, but I rather pity her.

[Hisey]

3 hours ago, lawlifelgbt said:

Who else thinks that the kids "clamor" for the job of packaging bulk chips and crackers into smaller bags, so they can then eat some while mom is occupied, and/or give themselves a larger serving?

Just saying. She still sounds like a food control freak.

I thought that too! 

That's the problem with Erika's attempts to control everything. With nine kids, you can't be watching everyone all the time. I'm sure there is TONS of sneaking going on. Erika finds out about some of it, the kids lie when confronted, and Erika gets depressed. 

Erika, you're outnumbered. It would've been far better to make the kids your ally. They'd be far less sneaky/angry/difficult if they felt you were on their team.

[Showtunesgirl]

So the older kids are responsible for unpacking the younger ones' lunch bags...the heck?! Pretty sure I was responsible for cleaning out my own lunchbox after school starting in kindergarten, and I turned out just fine. I am also surprised that Erika thinks that those emptied water bottles just need to be dried, instead of washed out with soap. Kids throw those bottles around and who knows what kind of germs and bacteria are lurking on/in them. 

[Howl]

4 hours ago, 16strong said:

For someone with OCD and depression, it does. For Erika, everything has to be perfect and done exactly the right way, or else she feels anxious. Thus, simple tasks often take a lot longer. And, for a depressed person, even putting silverware in the dishwasher can be a monumental task. Can't believe I'm saying this, but I rather pity her.

This is an interesting (and important) point.  

Also, since I don't have direct experience -- it is possible that OCD can worsen and become overwhelming with time?  If so, what would trigger a worsening?  Sorry for the TMI, Erika, but could be some pre-menopausal stuff going on as well. 

Also, wonder if Erika is finding out that public school is mighty fine, the kids are thriving, and that has triggered a (very slight) re-evaluation of her beliefs. 

After the two oldest girls, what are the ages and genders (no names, please) of the next two or three kids?

[elliha]

27 minutes ago, Howl said:

This is an interesting (and important) point.  

Also, since I don't have direct experience -- it is possible that OCD can worsen and become overwhelming with time?  If so, what would trigger a worsening?  Sorry for the TMI, Erika, but could be some pre-menopausal stuff going on as well. 

My experience during a stress-triggered depression is that negative personality traits tend to be increased so I think this is very possible. I also recognize the scheduled time for hobbies in the hypothetical schedule as advice I also got during that period. One is supposed to try to schedule things that reduce stress and that you have enjoyed in the past. That never worked for me though so I didn't do it.