The Boyer Sisters, Part 2

[refugee]

2 hours ago, snarkysally said:

2 hours ago, SilverBeach said:

What is the basis of your disagreement? Gay people don't feel or deserve love? Serious question.

No, absolutely not! I believe that the Bible calls homosexuality a sin. That's it. I have no ill will toward gay people or anybody else. 

I honestly cannot reconcile these two thoughts. In response to "Gay people don't feel or deserve love?"

"--No, absolutely not! But homosexuality is a sin."

No, absolutely not! But yes, absolutely!

Yikes. My head hurts.

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

33 minutes ago, refugee said:

Beg to differ. It is not hearsay, but actual personal experience in a former church of mine, and the guest speakers they flew in expressed "likemindedness." We had one recurring guest speaker, a former Catholic priest, whose mission field was to convert Catholics to "true christianity". I also heard grumbling from those who regularly protested at the local Planned Parenthood over having to share the sidewalk with Catholics, charismatics, and maybe even Mormons. (I am not completely sure about the Mormon part--I might be remembering that wrong, as I never went on the protests but heard a lot about them at church and in social gatherings. It was quite the crusade.)

Baptists came in for their share of criticism as well. "How could they not baptize their children into the Covenant?" There was a huge discussion of paedocommunion, as well. I remember our kids had to stand before the elders and answer 20 questions orally to show their proper understanding of doctrine before the elders would allow them to take communion. (Whatever happened to "Let the little children come to Me, and do not hinder them..."?)

(Of course, baptizing babies into "Covenant families" has not stopped young people from leaving the church and the faith, it seems... That may sound smug, but I'm actually heartbroken at their pain and anger.)

 

I would imagine she got it from Romans 1, verses 26-27. That's one of the passages that got read aloud whenever the preaching topic was the Gay Agenda.

 

I don't know, to me it does usually seem like you lump all fundies into the same category as the fundies you used to hang out with/used to be. I mean most FJers kinda lump all fundies together. I supposed it would get tedious to always write "most fundies" or "some fundies", so I just insert it in my mind. I used to get my panties rather in a twist at the constant misassociation, but I got over it. ;-)

[nastyhobbitses]

I know that I'm revealing my sinful proclivities for necrophilic bestiality with a side of S&M, but @snarkysally, could you please explain why you are against/have some fundamental disagreement with two adults loving each other/wanting to knock boots? "The Bible says it's a sin" is not a sufficient explanation. Why do YOU think it's a sin? Why do YOU think it's bad?

[formergothardite]

5 hours ago, DaisyD said:

I could swear one of her posts was verbatim to another I've read here before...

She sounds exactly like another fundie troll that I can't remember the username, right down to "I don't vote". And how she continually claimed people were saying things they weren't saying. 

Some beliefs cause harm even if you don't vote and the belief that being gay is a sin is one of those.  Even if people like snarkysallly don't vote, they are still legitimizing a belief that is used by people who DO vote to actually persecute people. She is saying that this is a reasonable and viable belief. The belief that being gay is a sin drives gay teens and adults to suicide. It causes self-hate. So I don't accept "I don't vote" or "I'm not hurting anyone." as justification that believing gay people are sinners. By believing that, you are hurting people. 

Also, if she was really meaning it as just being a sin like any other sin, she would have called the Boyer sisters out as sinners because their entire brand is vanity. That blog is nothing but glorifying themselves all while claiming to just "show off" how modest they are. 

And yes, the latest Boyer sister video was very, very rehearsed. 

 

 

[Palimpsest]

7 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

trolling 101 and not particularly amusing.  The troll with the constipated fish that cost her over $10 k and the baby who was reading the wall street journal st 9 months or whatever...  People still talk about her.  All the time.  Search constipated fish and you'll see.  But you're not original.  You do however sound very familiar.

Yep.

7 hours ago, DaisyD said:

Since she never told me where the bible actually says being gay is a sin (in the NT, but I don't believe it says that anywhere) I'm going to take that as a concession that it doesn't. I could swear one of her posts was verbatim to another I've read here before...

Yep.  Still can't put my finger on it but I think she was a return visitor too.  As Buffy said, I was wondering whether a tropical fish was going to wave a fin at me a few pages back, but that one was a bit more skilled.

In the Bible Jesus never said a word about homosexuality being a sin.  You'd think if it were that important he would have mentioned it and someone would have written it down, but nope.  None of the four gospels mention it.

Paul (who I never liked and who never met Jesus when he was alive) does.  Sort of.  Passing references in a list of other naughty behaviors that won't get you into heaven in Romans, Corinthians and Timothy, I'd have to look up the exact verses.  IIRC, whether it refers to homosexuality at all is dubious when you look at the original texts.  

No, it's the stuff in the OT that these so-called Christians rely on when they want to punish homosexuality by death.

So @Gabe, if you are still around - if you don't "believe in sexual orientation" should it be punished?

 

[catlady]

Re Charlotte's 40-question video:  the format annoys me because there is zero depth to the answers.  So why does she want to be "crazy flexible"?  Why does she wish she needed glasses?  Who in their right mind wants bad eyesight?  If she wants glasses as a fashion statement, she can probably find some online.

She should re-do with fewer questions and more time with each.

[Palimpsest]

5 hours ago, JemimaPuddle-Duck said:

I don't know, to me it does usually seem like you lump all fundies into the same category as the fundies you used to hang out with/used to be. I mean most FJers kinda lump all fundies together. I supposed it would get tedious to always write "most fundies" or "some fundies", so I just insert it in my mind. I used to get my panties rather in a twist at the constant misassociation, but I got over it. ;-)

Some of us try not to do that.  I think it takes experience and better knowledge of the doctrinal differences not to jump to conclusions and lump people in together though.

I still think that those who believe in the Great Commission will never achieve Dominion because of all those doctrinal differences - so long may they last.

 

[charmedforsure]

27 minutes ago, catlady said:

Re Charlotte's 40-question video:  the format annoys me because there is zero depth to the answers.  So why does she want to be "crazy flexible"?  Why does she wish she needed glasses?  Who in their right mind wants bad eyesight?  If she wants glasses as a fashion statement, she can probably find some online.

She should re-do with fewer questions and more time with each.

The format is supposed to be totally spontaneous, with rapid-fire questioning, blurting out the first thing that comes to mind. But the video they modeled it after was so rehearsed as well, so that's why the whole interaction feels stiff and just off.

In regards to the flexibility... Maybe Charlotte is envious of ballet dancers. Or perhaps she is interested in yoga as a form of exercise, but can't admit that because it has ties to a non-Christian religion. (I'd personally love to be more bendy/flexible too... but for a not-so-innocent reason! *cue burlesque music*)

The glasses thing. Ugh. Don't wish yourself bad eyesight. Ever. (Eat the RDA of Vitamin A every day folks! Keep your peepers healthy!)

[Palimpsest]

7 hours ago, NikeKnees said:

I don't think @snarkysally is here any more but her disclosure of abuse to the group was ignored so just in case she sees this I want to say that I am truly sorry that you had to experience that. No one, regardless of personal belief, deserves to experience abuse. 

I completely agree with the bolded.

I think she wrote that after I went to bed, but yes it was ignored.

Unfortunately as I was catching up this morning and reading all the contradictions, obfuscations, and wilder claims in her other posts I completely discounted it.  Trolls like to play on our sympathies and this was sounding more and more like a return visit by a known troll.

It is never wrong to show compassion but please remember that people can and do lie on the internet.

[Palimpsest]

41 minutes ago, charmedforsure said:

In regards to the flexibility... Maybe Charlotte is envious of ballet dancers.

I thought she meant that she stuck too closely to a schedule and was inflexible about that!

That was definitely over-rehearsed and very boring.

@formergothardite, I think your question for the Boyers about modesty is answered by omission in the Nov 23 video.  "Modesty: What Our Parents Never Told Us..."

Their parents never told them that modesty pertained to anything other than their clothing.  Someone give those girls a dictionary for Christmas.  And perhaps a grammar book for Charlotte who needs to brush up on subject, object and reflexive pronouns.

[formergothardite]

16 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

Unfortunately as I was catching up this morning and reading all the contradictions, obfuscations, and wilder claims in her other posts I completely discounted it.  Trolls like to play on our sympathies and this was sounding more and more like a return visit by a known troll.

I read that part this morning and to me it sounds exactly like a returning troll and, with all the other things she has said, something I just don't believe. I suspect a lot of people didn't believe her, which is why there wasn't an outpouring of sympathy and was mostly ignored.

28 minutes ago, charmedforsure said:

So why does she want to be "crazy flexible"?

She wants to be crazy flexible but hates stretching. 

[catlady]

And this is precisely why I find the format so pointless:  she gives such a SEVERELY brief answer that we don't know what she means. 

[formergothardite]

2 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

ormergothardite, I think your question for the Boyers about modesty is answered by omission in the Nov 23 video.  "Modesty: What Our Parents Never Told Us..."

I can see that they probably never thought of it that way, since it appears they have been very limited in what they know and it seems to be a trend for "modest" bloggers to just create a blog of vanity to tell the world how godly they are. But since they do read here and now know that modest doesn't just mean clothing, I wonder what they think. Their blog is very ostentatious, which is the opposite of modest. 

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

So Sally wanted to pretend she was a sweet little Christian that just follows the Bible and doesn't hurt anyone in the process. 

Bull shit.

Its oh so convenient that she doesn't vote. I don't believe for one minute that she doesn't vote. When I asked why she got all huffy that I said it was unfortunate in a way to deflect. Because she doesn't have a reason. Because it's a lie. She does vote. 

She also did not address my question about what she would do if her child dated someone of the same sex. Because she knows she would flip her ever loving mind. And there's nothing kind of tolerant about forbidding your child from entering into a loving relationship.

Finally she said she HAD a good friend who was gay. So she lost that friend. I wonder why... No, actually I don't. And she would never in a million years attend a wedding of a gay friend. She didn't answer that question either. Shocking.

So no, I don't believe for one second she's a sweet little christian woman with a belief that hurts no one. Complete bullshit.

[charmedforsure]

8 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

I thought she meant that she stuck to closely to a schedule and was inflexible about that!

That was definitely over-rehearsed and very boring.

@formergothardite, I think your question for the Boyers about modesty is answered by omission in the Nov 23 video.  "Modesty: What Our Parents Never Told Us..."

Their parents never told them that modesty pertained to anything other than their clothing.  Someone give those girls a dictionary for Christmas.  And perhaps a grammar book for Charlotte who needs to brush up on subject, object and reflexive pronouns.

Well she did say she hated stretching. I guess I inferred that the two were related. 

8 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

She wants to be crazy flexible but hates stretching. 

Took the words right out of my mouth! JINX!

6 minutes ago, catlady said:

And this is precisely why I find the format so pointless:  she gives such a SEVERELY brief answer that we don't know what she means. 

*nods* The Vogue 73 Questions list is an attempt to give a glimpse into how celebrities are just like us commoners! The video format is quite fitting to the "holier than thou" vibe that the sisters give off. 

[Palimpsest]

1 minute ago, formergothardite said:

But since they do read here and now know that modest doesn't just mean clothing,

Ah, but we only have @Gabe's word for them reading here.

Otherwise, I agree.  It's not just about the young women bloggers either.  Blowing your own trumpet indiscriminately seems to be a virtue for many of these people.  If you look at Shrader and Hodnett - they never stop boasting and humble bragging.

[DaisyD]

1 hour ago, Palimpsest said:

Paul (who I never liked and who never met Jesus when he was alive) does.  Sort of.  Passing references in a list of other naughty behaviors that won't get you into heaven in Romans, Corinthians and Timothy, I'd have to look up the exact verses.  IIRC, whether it refers to homosexuality at all is dubious when you look at the original texts.

Romans is taken from letters that Paul wrote, right? Doesn't it actually say that men laying with boys is the sin? That says pedophilia to me, NOT homosexuality. 

I'll fully cop to never making it the whole way through the bible. I find the genealogy in Genesis so damn tedious that I never got past it. I have read other bits over the years, on my own, and drawn my own conclusions from that. In general when someone quotes the bible to try to make a point it either makes no sense at all, or doesn't make the point they seem to be trying to make. At least not the way I read it...

[Palimpsest]

8 minutes ago, DaisyD said:

Romans is taken from letters that Paul wrote, right? Doesn't it actually say that men laying with boys is the sin? That says pedophilia to me, NOT homosexuality. 

Yes, Letters to the Romans, the Corinthians, and Timothy.  Paul had a lot of pen pals.

I googled it for you because Biblical translation is certainly not one of my strengths.  This article is interesting and seems pretty comprehensive on the different possibilities and propositions: https://www.westarinstitute.org/resources/the-fourth-r/what-the-new-testament-says-about-homosexuality/

I don't think I've ever sat down and read the Bible from cover to cover, but I had way too much of it thrust down my throat as an MK and can text battle pretty efficiently.  I'm at my best on the Synoptic Gospels and Acts though.  I actually got an A on my O Level Scripture exam - and my teacher was a flat earther who also taught me geography!

[church_of_dog]

32 minutes ago, DaisyD said:

I'll fully cop to never making it the whole way through the bible. I find the genealogy in Genesis so damn tedious that I never got past it.

The only time I have ever really looked at a bible was when I was traveling, spending the night in a motel room, and had forgotten to bring anything to read (pre-laptops, obviously).  I suppose those were mostly Gideons then.  But since I don't believe in don't enjoy reading books out of order, I would attempt to start from the beginning...

And no disrespect intended for believers reading here, but my snarky joke when asked if I've read the bible has often been "no, I started reading it but found myself laughing too hard to continue."

9 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

flat earther who also taught me geography

This sounds astounding!  (and also like it would make a fabulous post count title...)  I would guess they didn't start with explaining about all the different kinds of map projections...

[church_of_dog]

9 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

That was what she said re people,being gay.  Got me thinking...

@church_of_dog please send me a picture of your linen closet.  As a lapsed Catholic I think my friends should know where I stand in the matter of your sheet folding abilities.

that's as much my business as the sexual orientation of strangers.

I know it's a joke but I just can't resist.  I had a major remodel of my house over the past few years, to hyper-insulate it.  It wasn't entirely intentional but somehow I ended up without a single closet in the whole house!  (obviously this was acceptable or it wouldn't have proceeded that way, but while closets were not required in my mind, they certainly weren't objected to -- I just had higher priority uses for all the potential closet space)

Anyway, so this is what passes for a linen closet now: (bath towels are on a shelf in the bathroom)

 

I would make a horrible Catholic! 

[formergothardite]

Hey, this time Jessica only posted five pictures of herself! 

~one gazing thoughtfully into the distance

~one fake laughing

~one clutching a twig and gazing thoughtfully up at the trees

~one holding the dog and laughing

~one looking back at the dog. 

I think those shoes would be uncomfortable to walk in outdoors in the woods. 

[Palimpsest]

11 minutes ago, church_of_dog said:

I know it's a joke but I just can't resist.  I had a major remodel of my house over the past few years, to hyper-insulate it.  It wasn't entirely intentional but somehow I ended up without a single closet in the whole house!  (obviously this was acceptable or it wouldn't have proceeded that way, but while closets were not required in my mind, they certainly weren't objected to -- I just had higher priority uses for all the potential closet space)

Anyway, so this is what passes for a linen closet now: (bath towels are on a shelf in the bathroom)

 

I would make a horrible Catholic! 

I love the new closets we had to build in our 1938 house, but I think you have your priorities right.  I spy a cat tree and - is that a duvet on the bed?

 

[church_of_dog]

1 minute ago, Palimpsest said:

is that a duvet on the bed?

LOL maybe we can bring the duvet conversation into this thread as well!  (kidding, kidding)

But yes, I had always called it a down comforter but learned recently (thx to Duggar thread) that if it has a removable cover then it's a duvet -- so I guess that's a duvet.

In addition to the 2 blankets (ok, ok, it's one wool blanket and one quilt) on the bed along with the duvet, I have lots of blankets stashed in various wicker chests etc around the house.  Would need a whole closet just for them.

Yes, kitties love their tree!  Here's one from months ago when they were all little and the tree was new -- Arlo is "waving" to sister Juniper and brother Bob...

[refugee]

8 hours ago, JemimaPuddle-Duck said:

I don't know, to me it does usually seem like you lump all fundies into the same category as the fundies you used to hang out with/used to be. I mean most FJers kinda lump all fundies together. I supposed it would get tedious to always write "most fundies" or "some fundies", so I just insert it in my mind. I used to get my panties rather in a twist at the constant misassociation, but I got over it. ;-)

No, I am very selective in my lumping fundies together. I am probably not careful enough in expressing it.

ETA: I read about people like the RV family and PP and the Duggars with interest, but I don't often comment in those threads because I really don't know much about them, and though I don't specifically exclude them by name in saying "fundie" in some posts, I am not talking about the likes of them. I thought I'd been exclusive enough by mentioning "hyper-calvinists" in a recent post in this thread talking about the Boyers' possible mindset (and much of that is speculation, due to the nature of the site and the fact that I don't live in a Boyer family member's back pocket), but maybe I didn't in that particular post.

The fundies I lump together are the ones who listened (and may still listen, in some cases) to the likes of Doug Wilson, Doug Phillips, Steve Schlissel, Richard Bennett, R.C. Sproul, Jr., Tim Bayly, Kevin Swanson, Steve Wilkins...* the Patriarchy crowd. The Boyers, quite awhile ago, used to go to a church that embraced those speakers and their messages. I don't know what kinds of teachings they have had at their current church (and if it's the same church they've been going to for the last decade? I admit, I lost track of them for awhile) but from the discussion here it sounds like they haven't, at least, left the patriarchy (or shall we wrap it in cotton wool and call it complementarianism?) behind.

*Thought of some more. John Robbins, James and Stacey McDonald, and the Botkins. I'm sure there are more. Philip Lancaster, probably; though I never read anything of his, I saw his magazine in people's bathrooms. Now *there's* hearsay for you!

All the names I've mentioned *except* the Botkins and Lancaster visited--more than visited, were featured speakers at special conferences put on by the church--the Boyers' former church at one time or another, some while the Boyers were there and others after the Boyers had left; I'm sorry, I do tend to lump that sort of thing together as I'm not good at remembering the "when" of something happening so much as I remember the "what" of it.

(another note: John Robbins may or may not have been patriarchal. His main thing seemed to be the bible as a blueprint for living. One of his followers told me that if you could just put the whole bible into a computer, you could get a printout that would provide exact, step-by-step rules for living the perfect life)

[refugee]

1 hour ago, DaisyD said:

Romans is taken from letters that Paul wrote, right? Doesn't it actually say that men laying with boys is the sin? That says pedophilia to me, NOT homosexuality. 

No, It says  specifically "men with men" and "women with women" in the verse I mentioned. 

That is part of what entrapped me in the "gay is a sin" crowd for a long time. I'm not there now... but where I am is causing me to question everything I heard from the pulpit and in bible studies and frankly, the bible.

There are Christians here on FJ who, from what they post, look at the faith in a different way than I was programmed to (yes, my former mainline denomination church fit many of the points on the cult checklist, which makes "programming" an apt term). That gives me a small hope that I won't have to walk away completely from a faith I've held all my life. Of course, I didn't hold the patriarchal, angry, vengeful god all that time... that was just the last two decades or so. I would so love to get back to the simpler, more joyful and loving faith I once knew but deprogramming isn't as simple as I wish it would be.