The Boyer Sisters, Part 2

[SilverBeach]

1 minute ago, snarkysally said:

No it doesn't. My choice not to vote doesn't affect you personally at all. I didn't vote in the presidential election and you had no clue. You were not affected. 

Since attempting to communicate with a person lacking critical thinking skills is fruitless, I'm moving on.

I have a nail appointment on Friday, looking forward to it.

[FleeJanaFree]

I fear this thread drift has become a toxic bickerfest. Some good points have been raised, but each side jumping on the slightest thing to attack the other. 

[ladyamylynn]

Just now, FleeJanaFree said:

I fear this thread drift has become a toxic bickerfest. Some good points have been raised, but each side jumping on the slightest thing to attack the other. 

But, that's what FJ does best! *stomps foot*

[snarkysally]

9 minutes ago, ladyamylynn said:

Wrap it up gals and guys, she has the power of the Holy Bible. 

Really? I have said nothing derogatory toward anyone. How can you tell yourself that you are doing anything other than mocking someone solely on the basis of their religious beliefs right now? I have done nothing to you personally, yet you have mocked and ridiculed me personally. Yet again, I'm somehow the bad guy here. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 minute ago, snarkysally said:

Except those voters could just as easily have voted for Trump (I can assure you I wouldn't have voted for HIllary Clinton!). You are not directly affected by my not voting anymore than I am directly affected by anyone else's benign choices. You guys just have your own version of which personal choices are allowed to be judged/critiqued/opined and which choices aren't. 

 

Well HRC actually got millions more votes so if even more people voted, I'm going to make an educated guess and say it's more likely she would've won had people like you have actually exercised their right to vote.

 

2 minutes ago, snarkysally said:

Really? I have said nothing derogatory toward anyone. How can you tell yourself that you are doing anything other than mocking someone solely on the basis of their religious beliefs right now? I have done nothing to you personally, yet you have mocked and ridiculed me personally. Yet again, I'm somehow the bad guy here. 

*yawn*

The persecuted Christian Schtick is getting old.  

Although I am quite dumbfounded by people who choose not to vote.

[nastyhobbitses]

1 minute ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

So to be clear everyone sins and thus is a sinner?  And all sins are equal so stealing a cookie is the same level of crime as murder?  And there is some list of sexual acts which are sins as well?

couple things...one I'd feel far more wronged if someone murdered me then if they broke into my cookie stash.  Two if I'm already a sinner like everyone and will continue to and they are all equal why would I limit myself to boring sins like petty theft when for the same penalty I could have my choice of sex off the forbidden list.

idk about you guys, but if I'm going to do time for something I'm going down for amazing multiple orgasms over petty theft of baked goods.

so the bible says gay people are sinning but doesn't it also say something about judging not lest ye be judged?  How does that reconcile?

Also, I think the "all sins are equal" thing cheapens the whole idea of grace for me. There's so much emphasis on "I did all these bad things but then I asked Jesus to forgive me and he was like 'yeah we cool' and now everything is fine", which, OK, if you frame it as believing that anyone can be redeemed after doing bad things in life and in the end you're still a worthy person who deserves love and second chances, that's great, but as we've seen with a lot of the people we talk about on here, too often there's too much focus on receiving some ambiguous forgiveness than there is on actually being a good person, especially because if stealing a cookie or thinking Scarlett Johansson's kinda hot is equally as bad as molesting your five-year-old sister or fleecing your followers out of their money, it's basically impossible to be a "good" person except by using a literal Deus Ex Machina that, instead of showing that tomorrow's a new day and it's never too late to change your ways, is essentially a Get Out of Jail/Accountability Free card.

[Meridae]

The Bible is different than the Qaran, for example, in that it is not claimed to be straight from God himself. The humanity of the Biblical writers, who interpreted signs and stories passed down for generations, is well acknowledged and humans are imperfect, especially with an extreme lack of understanding of the natural world. It is full of second-hand and third-hand accounts, atrocious acts done in the name of a very grumpy deity, and contradictions between books and verses. There are strong, ferocious women, there are gay lovers (and poems dedicated to their love!), there are unbelievers who did the right thing and loved as Jesus did for those who could not help themselves. I will take the words and actions of Jesus over what ancient herders wrote about someone else saying or doing any day.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

2 minutes ago, snarkysally said:

Really? I have said nothing derogatory toward anyone. How can you tell yourself that you are doing anything other than mocking someone solely on the basis of their religious beliefs right now? I have done nothing to you personally, yet you have mocked and ridiculed me personally. Yet again, I'm somehow the bad guy here. 

@ladyamylynn was totally out of line.  Idk where she gets off thinking it's okay mock an argument based on biblical truths on a snark site about the dangers of fundamentalism.  

Youll have to excuse me, I'm going to find a Linux forum and post about how great Windows is so I can be a persecuted victim too.

[nastyhobbitses]

Also, don't play the Poor Poor Pitiful Persecuted Christian card when the corpses of the victims of the Coptic church bombing in Egypt earlier this week are barely at room temperature.

[SilverBeach]

9 minutes ago, FleeJanaFree said:

I fear this thread drift has become a toxic bickerfest. Some good points have been raised, but each side jumping on the slightest thing to attack the other. 

I don't agree. Not toxic at all, nor a bickerfest. I personally have jumped on no one, and have seen no one get defensive but snarky. Thread drift is a thing on FJ.

[JermajestyDuggar]

7 minutes ago, nastyhobbitses said:

Also, I think the "all sins are equal" thing cheapens the whole idea of grace for me. There's so much emphasis on "I did all these bad things but then I asked Jesus to forgive me and he was like 'yeah we cool' and now everything is fine", which, OK, if you frame it as believing that anyone can be redeemed after doing bad things in life and in the end you're still a worthy person who deserves love and second chances, that's great, but as we've seen with a lot of the people we talk about on here, too often there's too much focus on receiving some ambiguous forgiveness than there is on actually being a good person, especially because if stealing a cookie or thinking Scarlett Johansson's kinda hot is equally as bad as molesting your five-year-old sister or fleecing your followers out of their money, it's basically impossible to be a "good" person except by using a literal Deus Ex Machina that, instead of showing that tomorrow's a new day and it's never too late to change your ways, is essentially a Get Out of Jail/Accountability Free card.

If all christians truly believed that being gay is just as sinful as overeating, then there would be a big push for laws against obesity. But there aren't. So I call bullshit. Marrying the person you love that happens to have matching genitalia, is way worse than having a triple scoop of chubby hubby. 

[SilverBeach]

3 minutes ago, nastyhobbitses said:

Also, don't play the Poor Poor Pitiful Persecuted Christian card when the corpses of the victims of the Coptic church bombing in Egypt earlier this week are barely at room temperature.

Fundies wouldn't know true persecution if it slapped them in the face.

[snarkysally]

15 minutes ago, nastyhobbitses said:

Also, don't play the Poor Poor Pitiful Persecuted Christian card when the corpses of the victims of the Coptic church bombing in Egypt earlier this week are barely at room temperature.

I never said I was a "poor poor pitiful persecuted Christian" I just think this site is very hypocritical in all of the "just be a decent human being" thing and many in this thread are so mean-spirited and hateful toward anyone they disagree with (which is, ironically, one of the things you supposedly snark on fundies for)

21 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

@ladyamylynn was totally out of line.  Idk where she gets off thinking it's okay mock an argument based on biblical truths on a snark site about the dangers of fundamentalism.  

Right, but isn't that one of your chief complaints about fundamentalists? That they mock the beliefs of others? Yet it's somehow okay when you do it? How is it ever okay?

[JermajestyDuggar]

I'm just going to leave this here....

[Chickenbutt]

@snarkysally Can I ask you a sincere question? If you are feeling dogpiled on, why are you still here fighting this fight? It is apparent there are to be no winners here. Just curious.

[snarkysally]

6 minutes ago, Chickenbutt said:

@snarkysally Can I ask you a sincere question? If you are feeling dogpiled on, why are you still here fighting this fight? It is apparent there are to be no winners here. Just curious.

That's a good question, but there is just something in me that doesn't like being attacked "behind my back" so to speak. I would like to at least have the opportunity to correct false accusations (there have been many). I answered a question because I was asked a specific and direct question. I did not come in here randomly talking about gay people. It was a question posed to me and I tried to answer thoughtfully. Most of the responses I have received, however, have been everything but thoughtful. Which is sad since that is supposedly a complaint against the fundies.

[Chickenbutt]

@snarkysallyThanks for answering. I am nosy like that.

[snarkysally]

10 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I'm just going to leave this here....

I'm not intolerant. I have an opinion about a behavior. I have thoughts and opinions about what the Bible calls sin, and you have thoughts and opinions about people who believe the Bible. I have not called out anyone specifically or said unkind things toward anyone. However, your (collective) opinions come with vitriol, mocking, and attacking comments. Yet yours are okay and mine are intolerant and hateful?

6 minutes ago, Chickenbutt said:

@snarkysallyThanks for answering. I am nosy like that.

I'm out of votes but thank you for the kind and respectful response. 

[SilverBeach]

55 minutes ago, snarkysally said:

 

The Holy Bible. The only one I am aware of. 

Which Holy Bible? Aren't all versions holy? 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

4 minutes ago, snarkysally said:

I never said I was a "poor poor pitiful persecuted Christian" I just think this site is very hypocritical in all of the "just be a decent human being" thing and many in this thread are so mean-spirited and hateful toward anyone they disagree with (which is, ironically, one of the things you supposedly snark on fundies for)

Right, but isn't that one of your chief complaints about fundamentalists? That they mock the beliefs of others? Yet it's somehow okay when you do it? How is it ever okay?

No.  I don't care if they made a booth at Big Sandy where they mocked lapsed Catholics or any other segment of my belief system.  Standup, mean parody songs, snarky puppets....take it on the road as a Buffy Sucks tour.

My chief complaint is when people are sure they're so damn right about everything, especially the unknowable, that they want to impose those views upon others.  The position that gay people are somehow less than us normal people who like regular non-perverted sex, whatever that is, damages real people.  Teens, young adults especially kill themselves in much higher numbers because of being shamed and shunned.  Or they go through life pretending and live lives without being able to pair bond in a real way because of people like you.

Fundies can mock me all they like - hell, I'll  throw in all of FJ - mock us all.  If that's done in place of limiting their daughters potential, spreading dangerous views about gay people, or relegating women to second class status I think we'd all be thrilled.

mocking a belief to someone who comes to you to debate it =\= trying to force dangerous beliefs on society as a whole.

im mocking you - I not campaigning to take away your right to birth control.  

[MarblesMom]

@HerNameIsBuffy so well said.  Thank you.

 

[Meridae]

21 minutes ago, snarkysally said:

I'm not intolerant. I have an opinion about a behavior. I have thoughts and opinions about what the Bible calls sin, and you have thoughts and opinions about people who believe the Bible. I have not called out anyone specifically or said unkind things toward anyone. However, your (collective) opinions come with vitriol, mocking, and attacking comments. Yet yours are okay and mine are intolerant and hateful?

I'm out of votes but thank you for the kind and respectful response. 

I think the annoyance from many FJers comes from the fact that one sin written in the Bible is still considered a sin by many whereas others are ignored and discounted. Hardly seems rational. In addition there's literally nothing said about warm, respectful, loving relationships between those of the same or different genders; the Bible condemns the lustful actions of all orientations but it does not condemn love. In fact, love is celebrated- husbands and wives, those who are betrothed, those who are falling in love, those who are gay lovers.

When I, a straight woman, look at my boyfriend, I fall in love with him all over again. He is absolutely the most wonderful man I've ever met. He's kind, compassionate, resourceful, and most importantly makes me feel like the most amazing woman in the world. He makes me feel safe, appreciated; he boasts about me to his friends, he loves my smarts, he loves my laugh and the way I snuggle into him at night. I love the way he eats my food, I love the way he (tries to) dance, I love how he comes home after a long day and gives me kisses no matter how tired he is. I love how he treats others, how he encourages me in everything I do, I love how we are equal partners in everything. If I am made in the image of God himself, and God is nothing but pure love, and if I am called to love and be loved in return by sheer nature of who I was made by, then how is it fair for gay people to be able and capable of love in all its weird and wonderful forms but be denied that uniquely human experience? That is the very core of humanity, and to be told that you cannot love or be loved back despite the fact that you are able and want to feel that sense of belonging and love is CRUELTY. I want everyone to feel the love i have for my partner. Everyone deserves to feel that and be what they were made to be. It is beautiful, and it is real, and I hope one day you realize that this love can be shared by everyone!

[snarkysally]

13 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

 

im mocking you - I not campaigning to take away your right to birth control.  

See that's the thing, I'm not trying to take away your rights...or mock you. 

7 minutes ago, Meridae said:

I think the annoyance from many FJers comes from the fact that one sin written in the Bible is still considered a sin by many whereas others are ignored and discounted. Hardly seems rational. In addition there's literally nothing said about warm, respectful, loving relationships between those of the same or different genders; the Bible condemns the lustful actions of all orientations but it does not condemn love. In fact, love is celebrated- husbands and wives, those who are betrothed, those who are falling in love, those who are gay lovers.

When I, a straight woman, look at my boyfriend, I fall in love with him all over again. He is absolutely the most wonderful man I've ever met. He's kind, compassionate, resourceful, and most importantly makes me feel like the most amazing woman in the world. He makes me feel safe, appreciated; he boasts about me to his friends, he loves my smarts, he loves my laugh and the way I snuggle into him at night. I love the way he eats my food, I love the way he (tries to) dance, I love how he comes home after a long day and gives me kisses no matter how tired he is. I love how he treats others, how he encourages me in everything I do, I love how we are equal partners in everything. If I am made in the image of God himself, and God is nothing but pure love, and if I am called to love and be loved in return by sheer nature of who I was made by, then how is it fair for gay people to be able and capable of love in all its weird and wonderful forms but be denied that uniquely human experience? That is the very core of humanity, and to be told that you cannot love or be loved back despite the fact that you are able and want to feel that sense of belonging and love is CRUELTY. I want everyone to feel the love i have for my partner. Everyone deserves to feel that and be what they were made to be. It is beautiful, and it is real, and I hope one day you realize that this love has to be shared by everyone!

Even though we disagree on this, I do appreciate your thoughtful and respectful response. Thank you for that  Dialogue is a beautiful thing, even if no one's mind is changed. 

[SilverBeach]

3 minutes ago, snarkysally said:

See that's the thing, I'm not trying to take away your rights...or mock you. 

Not Buffy's rights, but the rights of gays! Aargh! Another logic break.

[snarkysally]

16 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

My chief complaint is when people are sure they're so damn right about everything

Oh the irony! This is the exact how many on this board come across. Different foundation, same closed-mindedness.

6 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

Not Buffy's rights, but the rights of gays! Aargh! Another logic break.

No logic break, just an intentional nitpicky misreading on your end. Allow me to clarify further. I'm not trying to take away ANYBODY's rights. Do what you want. But yes, I'm allowed to have an opinion on things just like you are.