Another Duggar Courting - Joy and Austin, Part 2

[marmalade]

2 hours ago, nst said:

well you will be happy to know that rapper ben and his pregnant bride are posting a video on congratulating a couple that have been "courting" for four months (my estimate) 

Spud looks exhausted and Ben wants to preach to a man who is older than him 

 

They did not start courting in summer. You can see some trees in the background of the video changing color. I highly suspect the courtship started when Joy volunteered as a cook on that marriage retreat the first weekend of October. 

Either way, she was still 18. I think we'll see a Christmas/NYE proposal to ring in the New Year sort of thing, and a wedding in early spring. The wedding might happen sooner to shoehorn it into the end of next season, which will run from sometime in January to April, if they go 13 weeks like this they did this season. 

[defraudedbychipendales]

Worlds Strictest Parents:

They browbeated a Jewish girl into going to church with them?

I have no words...

[front hugs > duggs]

3 hours ago, snickers34 said:

Yeah, she's been around as a family friend for a long time.

Jana did say she wants JD with someone who would be like a best friend to her. It's possible I guess!

[AnnaRuk09]

48 minutes ago, choralcrusader8613 said:

Yes. masiespace's actual name is Laura.

JEEZ her age surprised me. I would've guessed 27-28 years old but Laura is 31! 

[QuiverDance]

4 hours ago, sophie10130 said:

I've definitely wondered about this in Gothardism. I have had a pretty conservative Catholic tell me that if a woman is barren, she should "discern" to (be forced by the Church doctrine to) never get married so as not to burden her husband with a fruitless (baby-less) marriage and instead spend your life serving the Church instead. Also some crock about the whole good and bad sex thing. I was told that if you knew the sex would NOT lead to a baby (using contraceptives, non p-in-v sex, if one or both partners are barren either medically or naturally) then it's a sin always. I am not sure if this is a popular thought in the Church, but this was at a Church function. So take that with a grain of salt.

However, since quiverfull folks also think you should have sex only for procreation, I wonder how they would feel? Do they think it's a failing on the woman only? What do they think about conditions such as PCOS or endometriosis? Would they expect a miracle? If the miracle never happened should they get a divorce so the man can have a quiverfull with another woman? Is all their backdated sex considered a sin at that point? I know, I know, I'm getting into the realm of ridiculousness. But I would truly like to know these things. 

 

Edit: Just to add, I don't think Jana has any known fertility issues and that is the reason why she isn't married yet. I think if it was an issue and that's why she wasn't married they would probably never talk about her wanting to get married in talking heads and instead really push the "servant's heart" idea that she just wants to stay at home and help.

I was raised Catholic and educated by the Dominican Sisters and the Brothers of the Sacred Heart.  I was only taught that premarital sex and marital sex using artificial birth control was a sin.  Having marital sex knowing you are unable to conceive in a natural way is not a sin.  Married couples are supposed to be able to enjoy the "gift" of sexual love because it is one of God's gifts.  Also bear in mind that many Catholic women receive dispensations to use birth control once they've had a few children.  That may not be doctrine, but it is certainly done in practice.  Not that my Catholic experience is definitive or universal.  Just sharing my experience.

 

[marmalade]

Is Laura still at Illinois HQ, or has she transitioned to Texas? I've never been clear exactly what kind of position she holds at IBLP. 

[snickers34]

1 minute ago, AnnaRuk09 said:

JEEZ her age surprised me. I would've guessed 27-28 years old but Laura is 31! 

And that's why I don't buy the whole 'Jana's ancient' in her world. Laura also works (worked?) at ATI headquarters. Plus there's plenty of other fundie friends of hers in their late 20s/30s. I don't think it's that unheard of.

25 minutes ago, marmalade said:

I think we'll see a Christmas/NYE proposal to ring in the New Year sort of thing, and a wedding in early spring.

I'm not so sure. Considering how young she is they could follow Ben/Jessa and court for closer to a year. I also don't think that the whole Josiah/Marjorie failed courtship was this major embarrassment for them. They've always talked openly about how it's ok for courtships to not work out. I dunno...

[marmalade]

I'm not sure. Alyssa Bates married at 19. They were going to marry Marjorie off at 18. Ben was 19 for crying out loud! 

I hope I'm wrong, and it's a loooooong courtship. Even so, Joy will only be 20 at most when she marries. Anna was 20, so it's certainly acceptable to them. 

[Coconut Flan]

Quote

However, since quiverfull folks also think you should have sex only for procreation, I wonder how they would feel?

But they don't.  It somehow gets stated here a lot, but it isn't part of their teaching or practice. 

[BeccaGrim]

9 hours ago, Carm_88 said:

More interest in girls than boys. Ratings, it's all about the ratings. 

Maybe Jana is courting but they are holding her back for a double wedding with JD. Less attention for both of them  

We have all been speculating on Jana having a secret courtship with every courtship o her siblings.  I think the woman is just not courting because she's too busy raising DQ and Boob's kids.  She doesn't go on the mission trips on the show. She stays back to help Mama.  Where is she going to meet men? 

[marmalade]

Home Depot? I remember a host at QVC telling a story about how she used to stand at various parts of the store holding something and looking helpless so that a man might come to her "rescue" and maybe ask her out. 

eta: I just checked duggarfam's Instagram follows and Austin is no longer on it. Laura is also private, and I can see her on the list. I wonder if he all of a sudden started getting a flood of add requests today? 

[quiverofdoubt]

23 minutes ago, marmalade said:

I'm not sure. Alyssa Bates married at 19. They were going to marry Marjorie off at 18. Ben was 19 for crying out loud! 

I hope I'm wrong, and it's a loooooong courtship. Even so, Joy will only be 20 at most when she marries. Anna was 20, so it's certainly acceptable to them. 

I think they lean towards early marriages and fast courtships because, well, frankly. hormones. and sex. People are people, and teens especially, have strong urges.  It's probably worse in a gothard home where sex and biology are talked about so openly and honestly and kids are allowed to develop so naturally and normally (SARCASM Font folks).  I think some of the kids can hold off just fine and are maybe less hormonal by nature.  but others have a sex drive.  And the absolute worst thing would be a fundie kid getting pregnant out of wedlock.  so they hurry things up right quick so the baby's can come with god's blessing.

and of course since their partner is "brought to them by god" they may as well get married NOW, seeing as it's inevitable, and why wait and risk the kids holding hands (or worse!) before the legalities.

[Georgiana]

5 minutes ago, quiverofdoubt said:

I think they lean towards early marriages and fast courtships because, well, frankly. hormones. and sex. People are people, and teens especially, have strong urges.  It's probably worse in a gothard home where sex and biology are talked about so openly and honestly and kids are allowed to develop so naturally and normally (SARCASM Font folks).  I think some of the kids can hold off just fine and are maybe less hormonal by nature.  but others have a sex drive.  And the absolute worst thing would be a fundie kid getting pregnant out of wedlock.  so they hurry things up right quick so the baby's can come with god's blessing.

and of course since their partner is "brought to them by god" they may as well get married NOW, seeing as it's inevitable, and why wait and risk the kids holding hands (or worse!) before the legalities.

Well, the men tend to get married later because they have to become financially secure enough to support a family and such. So for boys, they move from childhood to preparing for marriage to marriage.

But for the girls. the time after high school is basically just waiting time until they get married and pop out babies for Jesus.  There's no real value to that "preparing for marriage" stage like there is for the men.   It's really seen as wasted, waiting time for them, so they are encouraged to marry early in order to fulfill their greater purpose of having more kids.  And I take this sentiment directly from the comments of the officiant at 19 year old Alyssa's wedding to 24 year old John.  He went on and on about what a BLESSING and GODLY THING young marriage is...and since 24 really isn't that young, I can only assume he was commenting on the age of the bride.  

Why WOULD a woman wait to get married in that culture?  She's not seen to be doing anything of value while she's grown and single.  She's not allowed to have her own interests or ministry to pursue.  The moment she finds her "Prince Charming", she should be hurrying into her new "season of life".  It's what GOD wants.  

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

1 hour ago, luxfilia said:

I knew a family who was on The Strictest Parents show back in the day. I knew them through church friends. But the EXTREME exaggeration of how the parents were was laughable. I hated seeing their episode, because everything they said and did was so obviously (to me, who knew them) out of context and heavily edited to make them look more bizarre. I think it's likely Austin's family was encouraged to say and do certain things to make them seem even weirder and more strict. Not that they aren't, but T.V. is T.V.

Thank you THIS!  Realty tv isn't real. I watched that show and they sent obnoxious brats bad attitudes to live with people who keep their kids on a 1 inch leash. And had them over emphasize their strictness for "shock value".  I'm not cheering for Joy here but these folks may not be fun loving, but they don't seem to over the top crazy either. 

 

[quiverofdoubt]

@georgiana: exactly.  their whole lives have been about prince charming.  everything has led up to it.  Where i grew up going to college is what we were all looking forward to, and what everything was supposed to lead up to.  As if 1) this current phase of life has no value- that this moment can't just be a moment, be your life. it has to be prep for when "your real life" begins.   2) nothing after marriage really matters.  well, babies.  but that's it.  3) as if every one of them WANTS to get married, or is straight, etc.  UGH.

At the same time i think the parents are relieved when their kids get married: at least the girls.  they might be able to hide things if their boy got a girl pregnant, but a pregnant daughter ? harder to hide.  When they can sell off the girl it's like she's scandal proof.  she's under someone else's umbrella of protection and the parents no longer have to worry about protecting her heart pieces and purity and all that bull crap.

I hope all that makes sense. i have a lot of things competing for my attention right now.

[trustworthy]

11 hours ago, Denim Jumper said:

11 hours ago, Denim Jumper said:

how would she ever find a man who is okay with limiting their family size? Assuming she wants to, and he managed to fly under JBs radar, it's not like they'd have any opportunity for private discussions about it. 

  This is always my biggest concern about courting/engaged couples.  If you can't EVER have conversation that's not monitored by parents, you can't ever talk about sex, children (how many, how to raise), how you'll approach your first kiss at the altar, what your communication or intimacy needs are, just between the two of you.  You've simply GOT to have those conversations before marriage, with no one else in the room influencing you.

 

[Toothfairy]

On Tuesday, November 15, 2016 at 10:51 PM, JermajestyDuggar said:

The only reason JB is allowing her to court this young is because she's being handed over to a family they know very well and is exactly like them. Oh and they need another season. 

This is sick. Seriously Jim Bob cares only about him. I feel sorry these kids can't be anything but housewives.

[louisa05]

1 hour ago, QuiverDance said:

I was raised Catholic and educated by the Dominican Sisters and the Brothers of the Sacred Heart.  I was only taught that premarital sex and marital sex using artificial birth control was a sin.  Having marital sex knowing you are unable to conceive in a natural way is not a sin.  Married couples are supposed to be able to enjoy the "gift" of sexual love because it is one of God's gifts.  Also bear in mind that many Catholic women receive dispensations to use birth control once they've had a few children.  That may not be doctrine, but it is certainly done in practice.  Not that my Catholic experience is definitive or universal.  Just sharing my experience.

 

I was taught, in Catholic school in The Most Conservative Diocese in America, tm, that sex has two purposes in marriage: procreative and unitive. Thus it is an important part of marriage regardless of the possibility of conception. 

And, of course, regardless of church teaching, surveys have indicated that as many as 98% of American Catholic women of childbearing age have used contraception at some point. The bishops might be saying it, but most of us aren't accepting it. 

The vehemently anti-contraception Catholic women I know are either a) past childbearing age with 2-3 well spaced children or b ) single and not even dating.  

[trustworthy]

8 hours ago, HereticHick said:

So let me get this straight:

The Forsyths own Fort Rock Family Camp (which the Duggars have visited multiple times), and they have 2 kids, Austin and Megan.

Austin is courting Joy Duggar

Last fall, Megan married Bobby Ballinger Jr., who is a Congressional staffer in Rep. Westerman's district office in Ozark (he's still there, I just checked), and they are expecting. Multiple Duggars attended the wedding--we discussed it at the time. His father, Bobby Ballinger Sr. is an lawyer and a Arkansas State Representative, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Ballinger

 

is that correct?

Well the father is only 42 so he must have been married very young  if son Bob is now married to Megan.  Bob Jr. can't be more than 22 and Bob Sr. must have gotten married at 19 or 20??

[Toothfairy]

Joy is my favorite. I feel bad for her. She was a tomboy and lost her spark. Now she will be pooping out babies. 

 

 

Why is Jim Bob in a hurry to get courtships rolling. 

 

 

1 hour ago, quiverofdoubt said:

I think they lean towards early marriages and fast courtships because, well, frankly. hormones. and sex. People are people, and teens especially, have strong urges.  It's probably worse in a gothard home where sex and biology are talked about so openly and honestly and kids are allowed to develop so naturally and normally (SARCASM Font folks).  I think some of the kids can hold off just fine and are maybe less hormonal by nature.  but others have a sex drive.  And the absolute worst thing would be a fundie kid getting pregnant out of wedlock.  so they hurry things up right quick so the baby's can come with god's blessing.

and of course since their partner is "brought to them by god" they may as well get married NOW, seeing as it's inevitable, and why wait and risk the kids holding hands (or worse!) before the legalities.

Well take a lesson from Josh. He married for sex but still cheated.

1 hour ago, Coconut Flan said:

But they don't.  It somehow gets stated here a lot, but it isn't part of their teaching or practice. 

I wonder if fundie women know they should enjoy sex too. 

[actuallyjessica]

And to think once Joy is married, she will be looked upon as more of an adult than her senior, yet unmarried sister, Jana. Sad.

[nst]

3 hours ago, choralcrusader8613 said:

Yes. masiespace's actual name is Laura.

so laura is austin's sister and now joy is courting this guy and laura aka maisespace is always around jana

[Toothfairy]

8 hours ago, Georgiana said:

Regarding the Duggar boys, there is a very good reason why all the girls are getting married first:  they have more options.

Purity is, no matter how much they try to deny it, really only important for the woman.  It's perfectly fine for a Duggar woman to marry outside the cult, so long as her husband professes to being reformed.  But there is NO WAY that a WOMAN who attended a secular college like Derrick/Jeremy would be even somewhat considered for any of the boys.  The boys MUST marry SAHD, who are not only harder to meet, but also harder to woo as there have been many rumors for quite a while that the Duggar family is not all that highly regarded in their own circles.  

Further, the girls' suitors can come to them, so their fame and looks help them out a lot.  The boys CANNOT accept advances, THEY must be the ones to make the first move.  In this way, filming hampers them as they have LESS time on their own to go off and get to know potential mates.  Unlike Ben, it would be UNHEARD of for a female suitor to come live with the Duggars for an extended period of time.  She needs to be protected in her father's house, you know!

So really, the Duggar's beliefs and lifestyle basically drop the chances of their sons to make a "good marriage" next to 0.  They have an incredibly limited pool to choose from and are incredibly limited in their ability to pursue anyone they might choose.  Their choices may be either to go the route of Zach Bates and rebel slightly, or to choose someone from a hanger on family like the Rodriguii.  

This is wrong. I really want an educated conservative girl for a Duggar boy. With a career and degree. I want JB to shit his pants. 

[immodest_countenance]

5 minutes ago, trustworthy said:

  This is always my biggest concern about courting/engaged couples.  If you can't EVER have conversation that's not monitored by parents, you can't ever talk about sex, children (how many, how to raise), how you'll approach your first kiss at the altar, what your communication or intimacy needs are, just between the two of you.  You've simply GOT to have those conversations before marriage, with no one else in the room influencing you.

This x1000. I'm sure the topics come up (some question in the 50 page questionaire), but come on, who ISNT putting their best face on when first getting to know someone. You want them or their family to like you, so you make a version of yourself they think the other person would like (Cough Jinger Cough). "Yeah babe, ill totally have as many kids as you want", "I'm totally on board with no kissing until marriage, yup", "I love soccer and watch it ALL the time". Like this isn't restricted to fundies, lots of people pretend to be someone they aren't so a person they are dating will like them.

Difference being, most people over time loosen up on the act when then become more comfortable with their partner and show their true, imperfect selves. Sometimes the couple works out, sometimes they go their separate ways. ... But in duggar land there's no time for that; the process happens so fast there is no time to realize that the person they married wasn't who they first seemed to be or what they each really wanted in a partner. When courting the couples unintentionally lie to each other  and themselves because they are in such a hurry to a physical relationship and are afraid of saying the wrong thing to the other or others family that will jeopardize that chance. 

 

Watching Jinger this season I was often remind of the "cool girl" monolouge from Gone Girl. A tad explicit.

Spoiler

"[He] loved a girl I was pretending to be. "Cool girl". Men always use that, don't they? As their defining compliment: "She's a cool girl". Cool girl is hot. Cool girl is game. Cool girl is fun. Cool girl never gets angry at her man. She only smiles in a chagrined, loving manner. And then presents her mouth for f***ing."

 

[snickers34]

5 minutes ago, nst said:

so laura is austin's sister and now joy is courting this guy and laura aka maisespace is always around jana

What? No. You're getting confused. Laura is not Austin's sister, she's just a friend. Someone brought her up because they saw everyone followed her as well as Austin on social media. That's it.