Another Duggar Courting - Joy and Austin, Part 2

[JermajestyDuggar]

5 hours ago, imokit said:

Joy is young and his family are Cray Cray.

But

They've known each other since they were little - this means she probably knows what she's getting into more than her sisters did, and they probably know each other better. They played together when little.

His family owns that camp. It may be a sign that she hasn't been quite as broken as we think. She's going to a place where she can do active outdoors stuff. 

She has a chance to learn skills there. There have been pictures of her working at their camps previously. During the time she's married but not yet birthed her first, she may well work for the camp and at least have things to do unlike the paralytic boredom Jill and Jessa had at this time.

She's marrying crazy fundies who've almost certainly used birth control. This may give her access.

Personally I'm happier with Austin then Jeremy (why would a college educated experienced person want a submissive with no life experience?) Or Derrick who sought JB out after seeing the show.

I think everyone knows what they're getting with this one and while it's not what I want for her, it's what was expected.

I disagree. I think Joy is just going from her own cult family to another family in the same cult. She will live at the camp under the thumb of Austins father and Austin. I see her as having much less freedom than Jill, Jessa, and Jinger after marriage. I see nothing good about this. Well except that she can have private conversations with him after marriage *eye roll*

[nausicaa]

18 minutes ago, stevie said:

What kills me inside is that they don't have a choice other than to get married and have kids. I know there is some people my age are getting married and having kids but they have other options of what to do in their life. It makes me sad that these kids don't have another option. The social worker in me wants to find these kids and empower them and show them their strengths and make them realize how much potential they have in this world other than getting married and having kids. Another thing I've learned so far in my education to becoming a social worker is you can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped and I'm not sure if any of these kids want help

It kills me that they don't get to make mistakes and learn from them. Nearly all of us have dated the wrong person (or several wrong people) when we were young. But we broke up, maybe nursed broken hearts for a while, and then moved on, thanking our lucky stars a few years down the road that we weren't stuck with them. 

But for Fundies, by the time you realize maybe this person isn't right for you, you're already married and a couple kids in. It isn't impossible to get out, but with few job skills or education and an unsupportive family, it's pretty damn hard and makes for a rough life.  

It's ridiculous to expect a sheltered nineteen year old girl to know what will be best for her for the rest of her life and to make that decision after a handful of supervised meetings with someone. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

Also, it means nothing that Austins parents have two kids. It's possible someone had perminant  BC like tubes tied or vasectomy before they got involved with Gothard. Sometimes those things aren't reversible. 

[Bad Wolf]

I hope Joy doesn't become the Forsyth's Ben, cleaning toilets after the campers are gone.

[Pasta]

I think Austin will surprise us. He's grown up with Joy so he probably has a good idea what she's really like. He might really like that she's tomboyish and not crazy fancy, you know? He may really like that she isn't "meek."

[JillyO]

2 hours ago, front hugs > duggs said:

Sorry! Wasn't trying to correct you! I was just piggy backing off you as I feel like most people don't realize it's a state law that could theoretically change pretty easily.

Oh, no need to apologize. I just wasn't sure if there was something in my post you were disagreeing with. Thanks for clearing it up.

[GreyhoundFan]

2 hours ago, SorenaJ said:

To why Joy wants to marry into this family: maybe the TTH is even worse. The Duggars could be on the worlds strictest parents as well. 

Um, to be on World's Strictest Parents, you'd actually have to be a PARENT. Jim Boob and DQ just pump out the kids. Jana and the J'Slaves are the parents.

 

[karen77]

9 minutes ago, JillyO said:

Oh, no need to apologize. I just wasn't sure if there was something in my post you were disagreeing with. Thanks for clearing it up.

With regard to the drinking age, I think the other caveat is that there are a lot of 18 year old HS students, who potentially can buy for younger friends.... one argument against it being 18 at least.

[Ralar]

On 11/16/2016 at 9:49 AM, just_ordinary said:

I'm honestly shocked. I hoped it would be one of the boys. Interesting that all Duggar and Bates Boy's who courted had one failed courtship and only two are married now. For the Duggars, maybe the whole Josh scandal burned them for the most fundie fathers? Or they are not interested- they get served by their sisters and don't have to provide for their own wife and quiver. Quite comfortable. 

Interessting to me: Austin is the first courter (that I witness) where all the comments are quite negative from the start. 

Maybe there have been other courtships but they went unannounced because they never became engaged. Why risk the Josiah embarrassment? Just announce the courtship once an engagement is in the works.

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

6 hours ago, Fundie Bunny said:

It's not about not drinking, or not having sex, or not studying, or marrying young. Is about choices. Do they know about it? Probably. Did she ever have a choice in wether to live this life or not? Absolutley not. Well yes, she does have a choice, marrying the first guy that daddy likes enough or being stuck at home, not being able to even go to the grocery store by herself and raising her siblings. Knowing that cousin Amy is a terrible sinner that dances and drinks but not being allowed to be with her at her house is totally knowing what she is missing

Right, my whole point was that the lack of choice is the issue. 

[quiverofdoubt]

There's more than a lack of choice going on here.  Otherwise more of the kids would rebel. It's the illusion of choice.  They are brought up being completely mislead about every choice.  one path leads to righeousness, god's love, all things will turn out wonderful.  Any other path (which hey you can freely choose guys!) will lead to sin, depravity, loss of love, unhappy jesus, hell etc etc.  The choice is obvious- of course they go the route they've been steered their whole lives towards.  However they THINK they are choosing it freely. Illusions of choice. So much worse than just being given no choices.

[McDoodleDoodleDoo]

1 hour ago, Bad Wolf said:

I hope Joy doesn't become the Forsyth's Ben, cleaning toilets after the campers are gone.

I'm watching their episode of world's strictest parents right now and I think this is the likely path. She could  probably be an excellent horse wrangler and really enjoy it but I think she will end up being Megan's replacement and stuck in the the kitchen cooking for guests, the family, with an infant blanket trained in a pack n play in the living room. The only thing that seems to matter is the Dad's wishes that he would never dare budge from. He seems ro be the type to reject logic, good advice or input from anyone if it came from a female because, "a man has got to be a leader" as he repeatedly said in his episode.

[socalrules]

1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Also, it means nothing that Austins parents have two kids. It's possible someone had perminant  BC like tubes tied or vasectomy before they got involved with Gothard. Sometimes those things aren't reversible. 

I agree. It's possible that they didn't use BC and were only able to have two babies. There could have been miscarriages or Austin's mom was only able to get pregnant twice. We are so used to these families having eleventy kids that we assume that those that don't were using birth control. Some people can do it like bunnies, without Bc, and still not get pregnant. There is no guarantee. The fact that Austin is one of only two doesn't mean he is more open to using BC or having fewer kids. For all we know the family was heartbroken to have so few kids. If he has spent so much time with the Duggars it's possible even wants more than a dozen as well. 

[Fundie Bunny]

9 minutes ago, quiverofdoubt said:

There's more than a lack of choice going on here.  Otherwise more of the kids would rebel. It's the illusion of choice.  They are brought up being completely mislead about every choice.  one path leads to righeousness, god's love, all things will turn out wonderful.  Any other path (which hey you can freely choose guys!) will lead to sin, depravity, loss of love, unhappy jesus, hell etc etc.  The choice is obvious- of course they go the route they've been steered their whole lives towards.  However they THINK they are choosing it freely. Illusions of choice. So much worse than just being given no choices.

Yeeeeeeeeees. Totally yes. I wish i could upvote thi more than once. This is what i was thinking this morning while writing my first post only that, you know, 7 am before coffee 

[HarleyQuinn]

1 hour ago, Pasta said:

I think Austin will surprise us. He's grown up with Joy so he probably has a good idea what she's really like. He might really like that she's tomboyish and not crazy fancy, you know? He may really like that she isn't "meek."

With the way Gothardites view gender roles, I'm not fully behind this. Sure, they may have known each other for years, Josiah and Marjorie did, but I doubt they were ever allowed to hang out/play with each other often. Joy may have been told to go do girly things while the boys had to do manly things. 

[sophie10130]

12 minutes ago, quiverofdoubt said:

There's more than a lack of choice going on here.  Otherwise more of the kids would rebel. It's the illusion of choice.  They are brought up being completely mislead about every choice.  one path leads to righeousness, god's love, all things will turn out wonderful.  Any other path (which hey you can freely choose guys!) will lead to sin, depravity, loss of love, unhappy jesus, hell etc etc.  The choice is obvious- of course they go the route they've been steered their whole lives towards.  However they THINK they are choosing it freely. Illusions of choice. So much worse than just being given no choices.

And it's also sad because they never meet people who veer even slightly from their given path and still end up okay.

For example, they never meet Godly men and women who date, are alone, and yet SOMEHOW (heavy sarcasm) don't have sex or go too far. In that way, they never learn what it means to respect someone's personal boundaries because they were never faced with the choice to have any. As someone who believes in having open communication especially in terms of sex and staying sex positive, this is one of their biggest failings. They do not teach their kids about healthy sexual boundaries and what it means to have self control and how to respect your partner and their boundaries.

They never meet women who go to college and work a job that is fulfilling to her and to her husband and family and yet still have time to raise her kids well.

They never meet people who are good Christians and still get together and drink a little and still talk about Jesus and the Word. Bible and Beer anyone?

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

27 minutes ago, quiverofdoubt said:

There's more than a lack of choice going on here.  Otherwise more of the kids would rebel. It's the illusion of choice.  They are brought up being completely mislead about every choice.  one path leads to righeousness, god's love, all things will turn out wonderful.  Any other path (which hey you can freely choose guys!) will lead to sin, depravity, loss of love, unhappy jesus, hell etc etc.  The choice is obvious- of course they go the route they've been steered their whole lives towards.  However they THINK they are choosing it freely. Illusions of choice. So much worse than just being given no choices.

Exactly. People in cults will always deny being in a cult and say that they can leave whenever they want. But that is not actually true.

Think of Elizabeth Smart. Even when a cop got her alone she still lied and gave her fake name. There were many times she could've run. But she didn't (for multiple reasons-one being fear). JB also uses fear to control his adult child (amongst other things like guilt and shame). They all think they have a choice, but when you look at everything that has been drilled into their heads, can you really say it's a true choice? I'm my opinion, no.

[quiverofdoubt]

8 minutes ago, sophie10130 said:

And it's also sad because they never meet people who veer even slightly from their given path and still end up okay.

For example, they never meet Godly men and women who date, are alone, and yet SOMEHOW (heavy sarcasm) don't have sex or go too far. In that way, they never learn what it means to respect someone's personal boundaries because they were never faced with the choice to have any. As someone who believes in having open communication especially in terms of sex and staying sex positive, this is one of their biggest failings. They do not teach their kids about healthy sexual boundaries and what it means to have self control and how to respect your partner and their boundaries.

They never meet women who go to college and work a job that is fulfilling to her and to her husband and family and yet still have time to raise her kids well.

They never meet people who are good Christians and still get together and drink a little and still talk about Jesus and the Word. Bible and Beer anyone?

 

This!  And raising kids this way is soo so so dangerous.  to the kids who may not defend themselves, or others from abuse/rape.  and for the ones who may think it's fine to commit those acts.  because women have no autonomy or sexual rights, and men have no responsibility.

[sophie10130]

32 minutes ago, quiverofdoubt said:

This!  And raising kids this way is soo so so dangerous.  to the kids who may not defend themselves, or others from abuse/rape.  and for the ones who may think it's fine to commit those acts.  because women have no autonomy or sexual rights, and men have no responsibility.

Precisely. If what Jim Bob said was correct and that many families in his community go through issues with sexual assault, I would say this, along with keeping an environment of shame around sex and learning about sex, is probably the number 1 reason why.

[freejoy]

After watching The World's strictest parents with the Forsythe, I really fear for Joy.

She won't have that freedom  Jessa, Jinger and Jill could experience.

She'll probably only be spending the honeymoon alone with Austin, after that she'll be a good servant to Daddy Forsythe and live in the family house. 

I was just scanning their facebook page and their family connection to the Duggars was mentioned every time possible with pictures. So I think Joy must be really valuable in Mr Forsythe's eyes since they'll get so much media attention with the wedding in somewhat 2017. He is just as cold and calculating as Kim J Boob.

Poor Joy!

[Pasta]

Who's a stronger force to be reckoned with? JB or Forsythe? Jb has a tendency to keep his girls close so is it possible that Joy and Austin would end up staying with the compound? 

[freejoy]

9 minutes ago, Pasta said:

Who's a stronger force to be reckoned with? JB or Forsythe? Jb has a tendency to keep his girls close so is it possible that Joy and Austin would end up staying with the compound? 

I don't think so. I bet Kim J Boob and Mr. Forsythe have already sat down and discussed all the financial matters. Mr. Forsythe will provide the new home on his compound and give daily feedback to Kim J Boob how his little J-slave is behaving. And Kim J Boob will pay for the wedding (but we all know it's going to be TLC)  and will have all the grooms men wear a T-shirt advertising the Fort Rock Family Camp.

[Coconut Flan]

I had a bit of a nightmare thought.  They wouldn't try to have the wedding at the camp to save money would they?

[sophie10130]

2 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

I had a bit of a nightmare thought.  They wouldn't try to have the wedding at the camp to save money would they?

I don't see why not. It might actually be a fun wedding. They could have outdoor games and a fire and s'mores and let all the littles run free.

[Buzzard]

7 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

I had a bit of a nightmare thought.  They wouldn't try to have the wedding at the camp to save money would they?

You mean, an opportunity for product placement? The Duggars? NEVER!