S'morton Bret Alan Smith Jailed (2)

[Mudgie]

This man's actions have created a domino effect of devastation. It has to be shocking and life shattering for countless people. Here's the thing about this the entire situation, the other adults involved don't have the luxury of shock and embarrassment. I'm not trying to be heartless, I'm genuinely not, but to me it boils down to the victims. Children who did not have a choice in any of this. Who likely still do not have a choice. Children don't get to choose how the adults around them handle these situations. Children don't get to choose the path going forward. Children don't get to choose any of it, from start to finish. Not only were they the victims of his ongoing abuse, but they are now at the mercy of the adults around them going forward. From their own parents, their extended family, law enforcement, counselors, medical health practitioners and whoever else is part of this process. The children have little to no say how things proceed. 

To me, that means that the adults around the victims do not have the luxury of doing anything other than everything in their power to keep those children safe, to keep them healthy, to do everything possible to ensure that they are allowed the opportunities to heal physically and emotionally, to learn what it is to be safe. To have their shattered world rebuilt with some semblance of hope and plenty of love. 

Shock and embarrassment are a natural response. Horror, devastation, heartbreak, all of it. I can't even imagine. Although I'm not without sympathy, I just think that the adults have to focus on the victims and deal with their own responses and emotions when it's more appropriate to do so. Right now everything should be focused on Katie, her kids, and the victims.  Because his actions have caused the MOST devastation to his victims. Everyone else's pain, shock and hurt is secondary. It just is. 

[formergothardite]

1 hour ago, lexiloumarie said:

It was the Mortons who did, Katie is a Morton. Pa Morton was bragging on the Smiths youtube video about it though, and it was obviously something Capt'n has no problem with as he made the videos and allowed his son to marry their daughter even though she couldn't decide.

Thanks! I tend to get them all mixed up, but still this whole family apparently thinks it is a great thing that a woman can't make a decision about marriage, which is a big red flag that this is one dysfunctional family. @oldsalty, do you think it is good that a woman has been raised in such a way that she is incapable of decision making? 

[IntrinsicallyDisordered]

1 hour ago, Black Aliss said:

IntrinsicallyDisordered, I'm so sorry this happened to you. Never let it go and fuck anyone who tells you to. Channel it into rage and channel the rage into constructive action.

Thank you

When I was younger I never talked about it, hated myself, felt overwhelmed with shame, etc.  A post like @Feministe9000's would have sent teenage me into a shame and self-harm spiral.  @oldsalty's would have been very good at reminding me to keep quiet and that only the accused matters, who cares about the victims?  But the older I get the more I know they don't know what they're talking about and so long as I can post/talk about the subject without suffocating in anxiety, I will.  It helps.  It helped me to see others speak openly about their experiences when I was in a worse place, and I've had too many people tell me I helped them by speaking openly about mine to stop.  

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

This is somewhat OT, but relates to how Katie will be able to make decisions going forward.

It's always been stated that Katie was raised to never make a decision and never allowed to make a decision in her life.  So are we talking no decision ever, even the some basic - pink blouse or green?, braid hair or pin it up?, grape jelly or strawberry?

Or are we talking life decisions. not the least of which was whether to marry Alan.

And since Katie's entire life is gender dictated and under the direction of her father, Sir Morton of Headship Protection, would there even have been any life decisions to make?

And if some man -- father, husband, brother, FIL, BIL -- has told her what to do her entire life, how on earth is she coping now and in the future?

The Mortons, Smiths, and these type of fundiesl leave their daughters without any life skills except for cooking, cleaning, birthing and totally submitting.

Katie's situation is the worst example of what can happen when a woman is purposely left unprepared for life's abrupt shifts. 

And does anyone think that Papa Morton feels even a tiny bit bad that God he decided Katie should marry Alan?  No?  Me neither

[formergothardite]

3 minutes ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

And does anyone think that Papa Morton feels even a tiny bit bad that God he decided Katie should marry Alan?  No?  Me neithe

ITA. I doubt he has any guilt about his decision that Kate should marry Alan or that poor Kate is ill prepared to deal with life in general. These men turn themselves into gods and they have a tendency to not want to admit when they screwed up big time. 

[hoipolloi]

12 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

ITA. I doubt he has any guilt about his decision that Kate should marry Alan or that poor Kate is ill prepared to deal with life in general. These men turn themselves into gods and they have a tendency to not want to admit when they screwed up big time. 

When bad things happen to people in the Church of Daddy Said So, it's not Daddy's fault.

[cami]

On Mother mortons latest instagram photo ( of Adeline) one of the tags is #sheishelpingusoutofcrisismode

I guess they did come back to help at least /:

[Coconut Flan]

3 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

I believe @oldsalty was briefly deactivated at her own request and then asked to be reactivated.  That is allowed on FJ.

That is true.  It turned out deactivation was not quite what she thought it was. 

[fundiefan]

2 minutes ago, cami said:

On Mother mortons latest instagram photo ( of Adeline) one of the tags is #sheishelpingusoutofcrisismode

I guess they did come back to help at least /:

All four of the Morton "kids" came back earlier this week for an extended time, apparently. According to IG posts and comments, at least.

I just hope there isn't a shit load of pressure on Addie to pick up the pieces, or take care of Katie's kids. Although I know that's too much to even consider in their world.

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

Of course Addie is helping out.

My guess is Addie has been designated by the Morton parents as the daughter who remains unmarried to care for nieces, nephews and the eventually aged parents.

I'd bet money Addie doesn't know this yet.

[RosyDaisy]

Let me see if I have all of this straight:

* Daniel Sheats (Jackie's relative) was arrested for 2 hold warrants. The original charges are not known.

* Bret posted an apology about the GFM for Daniel.

* Jackie posted on her public Facebook about having to find someone she knows falling into sin.

* Later, Jackie makes the Facebook post we are now discussing. She specifically mentions child molestation and a pregnant 14 year old and a DNA test.

*Alan is arrested for incest, rape, and child molestation.

Is this all correct? Did I leave anything out?

[AmazonGrace]

Pardon my cynicism but I have no faith that the patriarchs will admit that they were wrong about anything.  Admitting that you were wrong requires humility and learning capacity, and anyone who would choose to lord over their family in such a manner is probably a little low on humility. And anyone who would think that making  your teenage daughter marry someone she's clearly reluctant to marry is a good idea  is probably not too bright. 

[hoipolloi]

2 minutes ago, AmazonGrace said:

And anyone who would think that making  your teenage daughter marry someone she's clearly reluctant to marry is a good idea  is probably not too bright. 

The alternative is that such a father -- say, Michael Morton or "Captain" Bret Smith -- is evil, filled with the hubris of his fake religion.

[picklepizzas]

31 minutes ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

Of course Addie is helping out.

My guess is Addie has been designated by the Morton parents as the daughter who remains unmarried to care for nieces, nephews and the eventually aged parents.

I'd bet money Addie doesn't know this yet.

At least she's back on US soil now, so escape is at least feasible....run, addie, run!

[Gemini]

1 hour ago, IntrinsicallyDisordered said:

Thank you

When I was younger I never talked about it, hated myself, felt overwhelmed with shame, etc.  A post like @Feministe9000's would have sent teenage me into a shame and self-harm spiral.  @oldsalty's would have been very good at reminding me to keep quiet and that only the accused matters, who cares about the victims?  But the older I get the more I know they don't know what they're talking about and so long as I can post/talk about the subject without suffocating in anxiety, I will.  It helps.  It helped me to see others speak openly about their experiences when I was in a worse place, and I've had too many people tell me I helped them by speaking openly about mine to stop.  

I'd also like to thank you for discussing your horrific experience in such a brave and inspiring way.

I truely hope that  @oldsalty and @Feministe9000 can learn some compassion and humanity from your eloquent posts. 

[oldsalty]

9 hours ago, formergothardite said:

@oldsalty, I do hope you will have the time to explain how Jackie's post wasn't downplaying child molesting.

And do you not find it concerning the the Smiths were proud of raising a daughter who couldn't make decisions? 

Okay - when I read the statement it bothered me for the very same reason.  I am not saying much as I am trying to be careful.  I am not sure which daughter you mean - I thought you were talking about Katie - and she is the Mortons' daughter, not Smiths.  The Smiths have raised their daughters to  make their own decisions, IMHO.

[oldsalty]

10 hours ago, Black Aliss said:

IntrinsicallyDisordered, I'm so sorry this happened to you. Never let it go and fuck anyone who tells you to. Channel it into rage and channel the rage into constructive action.

As to BAS's presumption of innocence, his sister's recent blog post makes it pretty clear that at least some of his relatives believe the victim(s).

what recent blog post? Not sure if I missed something

[withaj]

53 minutes ago, oldsalty said:

what recent blog post? Not sure if I missed something

Alan's sister Rachel, married to Wesley Morton, recently resurrected their long-dormant blog to post some rather pointed bible verses.

http://wesleaandcompany.blogspot.com

Quote

But if anyone causes one of these little ones who trusts in me to lose faith, it would be better for that person to be thrown into the sea with a large millstone tied around the neck.
Matthew 18:6

Because the sentence against an evil deed is not executed speedily, the heart of the children of man is fully set to do evil. 
Ecclesiastes 8:11

Whoever says to the guilty, "you are innocent" will be cursed by peoples and denounced by nations.  But it will go well with those who convict the guilty, and rich blessing will come on them. 
Proverbs 24:24

Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.
Ephesians 5:11

 

[Grimalkin]

11 hours ago, oldsalty said:

ROFL - my grammar, my thought processes and spelling is appaling too!  Tired . .  .

Yes, that is very sad and truly I will tell  you when I read that about Alan it was crushing.  When I saw what the Mortons were saying I knew that it was a very good chance true because these families are close and it appears something very bad has happened.   I feel horrible for everyone involved.  That as what I was trying to communicate.  I cannot imagine being the mother or grandmother of Alan - see a comment even about the grandmother I thought was just not fair.  I think she was misunderstood (IMHO) - She was upset that this was publicly brought out on FB in that manner.  I don' t blame her .   .maybe she did not know yet and that was how it came out.  I guess I feel that we are on here judging people's reactions which may not be all that fair.  I am not sure what I would do or how I would react if one of my children were accused of such a heinous act because we  are still their parents.  I am only looking at that side though.  that does not mean I don't support the victim/victims.  My reactions are mostly out of shock. 

I am trying really hard to be succinct and clear in my responses, I just have a lot of thoughts and am trying to be careful what I say and thoughtful.  (Keeping on that straight and narrow - maybe I should change my name to "straight and narrow"

If I was shocked - how shocked his family must be.  Also I appreciate you may not agree with me.  because I will still maintain that I don't agree that the video is that telling.  I understand it is on topic and that is fine.  I have a lot of thoughts running through my head  and I am trying not to say all of them  of 

      Thank you for this honest response. I understand the shock of learning someone you know doing something horrible. It is crushing for so many reasons. I admit I am a bit jaded and cynical as a result. 

[Tiny Bubbles]

Apologize in advance for a long post. I've been madly trying to get caught up on this thread. It makes for agonizing reading.

One thing I am noticing is that some newer posters seem to believe fj commenting should follow strict rules of fair play, of journalistic or legal standards. That we need to govern our reactions to always assume someone's innocence before they are convicted, if they are convicted. 

But 'tho we DO have rules of conduct here, we are not a court of law or the media. We come on fj to react and share our knowledge and, sometimes, our anguish.  We want to reach out and discuss.  It's what communities do.  

It seems to me that FJ bent over backwards to remind itself that nothing was substantiated when rumours first circulated about Josh Duggar's misbehaviour years ago.  We do self govern.   We do understand that Alan has not actually been convicted.  We just want to safely discuss and react to this situation.  Having a finger wagged at us is not helpful.  

 

[DaisyD]

While we do occasionally get quoted by the media, that's on the "journalist", not us. You are absolutely right @Tiny Bubbles. It is not our job to give him the benefit of the doubt. Especially when the police are involved and pressing charges. If he's in jail it's more than just rumors and speculation that something happened. My bil was once accused of rape by his soon to be ex-wife and he was never arrested. He took a polygraph and that was that.

[oldsalty]

On 8/19/2016 at 10:24 PM, withaj said:

This man's actions have created a domino effect of devastation. It has to be shocking and life shattering for countless people. Here's the thing about this the entire situation, the other adults involved don't have the luxury of shock and embarrassment. I'm not trying to be heartless, I'm genuinely not, but to me it boils down to the victims. Children who did not have a choice in any of this. Who likely still do not have a choice. Children don't get to choose how the adults around them handle these situations. Children don't get to choose the path going forward. Children don't get to choose any of it, from start to finish. Not only were they the victims of his ongoing abuse, but they are now at the mercy of the adults around them going forward. From their own parents, their extended family, law enforcement, counselors, medical health practitioners and whoever else is part of this process. The children have little to no say how things proceed.

You are absolutely right - and I need to just get over the shock  .. .domino effect - very good way to explain.  If I could have expressed it better, this was what I was thinking.  You are so very right about the children - all of it.  So thank you for the insightful. very kind way of explaining.

[season of life]

I also want to add that there are multiple reasons as to why so many FJers believe Alan did what he did. There is extensive evidence through blogs and Facebook posts that these families adhere to a code where men govern and women obey. Given how damaging fundie culture is and how we see a tendency of sexual abuse in these cultures, it is no wonder why we think Alan committed these crimes.

[nastyhobbitses]

1 hour ago, season of life said:

I also want to add that there are multiple reasons as to why so many FJers believe Alan did what he did. There is extensive evidence through blogs and Facebook posts that these families adhere to a code where men govern and women obey. Given how damaging fundie culture is and how we see a tendency of sexual abuse in these cultures, it is no wonder why we think Alan committed these crimes.

Hit the nail on the head. Now, I believe strongly in due process and innocent until proven guilty, but unfortunately here, things just add up too well. There is a lot of evidence, circumstantial and otherwise, that makes it likely that Alan did what he is accused of. Now, there may be evidence that exonerates him. There may be something that proves he isn't guilty. But that something isn't turning up yet.

[AmazonGrace]

Sadly I think that people in certain fundie cults are far more likely to pray, forgive, keep sweet , respect the headship to the bitter end, deal with things within the church and family, mistrust the CPS  and cover up sexual abuse over and over again than call the police and report the perp to the heathen government at the first suspicion. 

So I think that when the headships of fundie families get reported it is probably pretty bad and rather undeniable and less likely to be a maybe-he-did-maybe-he-didn't situation. Maybe someone caught the bastards in the act, the children were injured or it is otherwise obvious that the child needs help and the prayers aren't enough.