S'morton Bret Alan Smith Jailed (2)

[IntrinsicallyDisordered]

2 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

Or... the children told the truth but then they were threatened, bribed or "convinced" to take it back.

Yes.

I am always suspicious of people who feel the need to jump into stories about rape or child molestation - especially stories such as this one where there appears to have been a long, thorough investigation by experienced professionals before charges were brought -  and declare that you know sometimes people lie and they know so many people who have been falsely accused, that people trained to get to the truth have the wool pulled over their eyes so easily by those crafty lying kids and their crafty, lying mothers, that again they personally are aware of times this has happened, etc.  But of course they aren't saying it's the case here.  They don't mean to sound like a rape apologist and sympathizer.  They're just so fair minded and balanced, unlike anyone else, that they have to point out the possibility  that the accused is actually the victim.  That's what's important here, you see.  

 The time to talk about false accusations is in a story about false accusations.  You don't seek to undermine a victim's credibility and dismiss their suffering and then claim that's not what you're doing (and if on the off chance it's not on purpose and that's truly not what you mean to do, maybe sit back a moment and reflect on why you're coming off that way).

[oldsalty]

31 minutes ago, IntrinsicallyDisordered said:

Yes.

I am always suspicious of people who feel the need to jump into stories about rape or child molestation - especially stories such as this one where there appears to have been a long, thorough investigation by experienced professionals before charges were brought -  and declare that you know sometimes people lie and they know so many people who have been falsely accused, that people trained to get to the truth have the wool pulled over their eyes so easily by those crafty lying kids and their crafty, lying mothers, that again they personally are aware of times this has happened, etc.  But of course they aren't saying it's the case here.  They don't mean to sound like a rape apologist and sympathizer.  They're just so fair minded and balanced, unlike anyone else, that they have to point out the possibility  that the accused is actually the victim.  That's what's important here, you see.  

 The time to talk about false accusations is in a story about false accusations.  You don't seek to undermine a victim's credibility and dismiss their suffering and then claim that's not what you're doing (and if on the off chance it's not on purpose and that's truly not what you mean to do, maybe sit back a moment and reflect on why you're coming off that way).

Okay - so do you know more than me or I more than you?  I don't think so.  I hope that those "professionals" were better than the ones I have known.  The ones I knew were so desperate to make a case they got children to lie.  Either way these families lives (victims, alleged perpetrator, mother, father, brothers, sisters etc) will never the the same.  I am looking at some of the rules here on this site and i guess I don't get how some of these comments follow rules.  but I should not worry - I will go back to "trolling" and reading and try to refrain from commenting as my comments ARE NOT helpful and I will not be contacting a helpmeet to say what I know . .  . oh and the down arrows?  It was for what I felt was unnecessary rudeness. . . goodness I am being roasted but heaven forbid that I would have something to say . . . 

[Gobsmacked]

Perhaps it might help your anger if you could chat to someone about the cause of it.

 

[samurai_sarah]

@oldsalty

Free Jinger is a free speech zone. (Within the parameters of the rules, none of which have been violated here)

[formergothardite]

@oldsalty, it is very telling that you seem more upset over people mocking a narcissistic man forcing his kids to perform in a ridiculous video to feed his ego than you are about Jackie's post downplaying children being molested. Where is your outrage over what Jackie wrote? That right there was nasty and downright evil. Nothing on this thread can come close to being as bad as what she wrote. 

 

[IntrinsicallyDisordered]

1 hour ago, oldsalty said:

Okay - so do you know more than me or I more than you?  I don't think so.  I hope that those "professionals" were better than the ones I have known.  The ones I knew were so desperate to make a case they got children to lie.  Either way these families lives (victims, alleged perpetrator, mother, father, brothers, sisters etc) will never the the same.  I am looking at some of the rules here on this site and i guess I don't get how some of these comments follow rules.  but I should not worry - I will go back to "trolling" and reading and try to refrain from commenting as my comments ARE NOT helpful and I will not be contacting a helpmeet to say what I know . .  . oh and the down arrows?  It was for what I felt was unnecessary rudeness. . . goodness I am being roasted but heaven forbid that I would have something to say . . . 

I do not know more than you do in this particular situation, but as someone who has been through CSA and later assault, your words are exactly the same as every other person desperate to believe that this sort of thing doesn't happen, and certainly not to people they may know or admire.   CSA is very, very common, the abuser is almost always a family member or family friend, and it's allowed to flourish in part because of attitudes like yours.  You could have the crime on tape and it would still be something along the lines of "are we sure the child isn't confused about what happened?  children are so easily confused.  and is it really so bad even if it did happen?  do we want to ruin a man's life over *this*?"  In my experience people trying to tell a child nothing happened and that they are mistaken is far, far more common than the opposite.  You have to fight tooth and nail, an exhausting, humiliating battle to be listened to or believed.  

In my case I was a preschooler with vaginal injuries confirmed by a doctor and a clear memory - but maybe there was an innocent explanation?  My abuser had been accused of sexual misconduct before by teenage girls, but maybe they were conspiring against him and convinced by others to make the accusations?

I get it, I do.  No one wants to believe this happens, especially to "good" families, because it means it could happen to them.  I'm sorry if you experienced a situation where the children were forced to lie - where you were with them with your eyes on them every single second of every day and knew for absolutely sure that they weren't abused because you were physically there and the accuser wasn't - of course that shouldn't happen and is a travesty.  Just know that that scenario is vanishingly rare.  The vast majority of abused children never see their abuser arrested, let alone serve jail time, because people aren't inclined to believe or value children.  

 

[AmazonGrace]

2 hours ago, oldsalty said:

Okay - so do you know more than me or I more than you?  I don't think so.  I hope that those "professionals" were better than the ones I have known.  The ones I knew were so desperate to make a case they got children to lie. 

How do you know the children lied? Because the alleged abuser was a businessman and the family posted nice photos on Facebook?

A lot of abusers blame the system or the accusers for conspiring framing them on purpose. Doesn't make it so.

[nickelodeon]

@oldsalty Girlfriend, you're in a thread about the rape of a child and you're complaining that people are SOOO NASTY about some flop patriarch's dance moves? Work on your priorities por favor.

[Grimalkin]

4 hours ago, oldsalty said:

Okay - so do you know more than me or I more than you?  I don't think so.  I hope that those "professionals" were better than the ones I have known.  The ones I knew were so desperate to make a case they got children to lie.  Either way these families lives (victims, alleged perpetrator, mother, father, brothers, sisters etc) will never the the same.  

         This is what Captain Bret says. There is a video about it.

     Nobody accused you of breaking rules. We just don't like what you are saying and are telling you so. You can keep saying what you want to say all day long. Sing it from the rooftops if you want.

@oldsalty do you think it's just a little bit ridiculous he calls himself Captain and has a uniform to go with it? Just a teensy weensy bit? 

[Palimpsest]

Oh, well.  So if @oldsalty:

• isn't Fundie,
• has no insider knowledge,
• is just here to tell us that we are all really nasty to mock a horrendous Patriarch's dancing, and
• inform us that "children are forced to lie" about sexual abuse, rape and incest, and that we are wrong to believe victims and law enforcement about a criminal case. 

Then I'm not terribly interested in their posts or opinions.  Just an FYI for Oldsalty who doesn't seem to understand the difference between "trolling" and "lurking."

Trolling: 

• making deliberately offensive or provocative online postings with the aim of upsetting people on a forum, or
• simply being a dick on the internet just because you can.

I thought they had decided FJ wasn't good for their health anyway so perhaps they will leave or lurk.  BTW, lurking means reading and not participating, Oldsalty.

I do agree that there is no reason to believe Daniel Sheats is also a child molester - at the moment.  The outstanding warrants could be for anything.

[fundiefan]

9 hours ago, oldsalty said:

...snipped quote....

actually my problem is just how nasty everyone is . .  . . . I just was not aware that people are SOO nasty - but I remember I was on here years ago over someone else and I forgot I had to quit reading because it was just so bad and yep, will need to do that again - I cannot waste my time on this kind of stuff.  

 

Then why are you still commenting? Why have you kept yourself the focus of discussion for a full page of comments? If you don't have time, you wouldn't still be here.

Saying "I don't have time for this" on a public message board while continuing to post sorta' removes any credibility to your words, don't you think?

You can have your opinion and even share it, but little temper tantrum dramatics will pretty much make you the topic rather than the thread. Of course, you know that, that's why you're doing it. Craving attention because you 'know' things and we're all bad people.

You will have to forgive me, and it looks like many others here, for not just dropping everything based on your words and actions.

[AmazonGrace]

So saying that a ridiculous video is ridiculous is very nasty behavior. Soo nasty.  (Really? you never made fun of anything on the internet or elsewhere that you found ridiculous? Amazing.)

Rape, child abuse and incest - "well yeah... it would be bad if it happened but never mind,  it probably didn't happen anyway. People lie about this stuff ALL the time."

Minimizing and belittling the victims' experience by implying they are very likely to have  lied about it  adds to the current victims' suffering and makes it harder for future victims to come forward because they know they will not be believed and they will be blamed.  That is really what is nasty here I think.

If you ask the child abusers there are only innocent men and women in jail...

Bringing up sexual child abuse is so difficult for the victims I think that we should default on believing them unless there is good reason not to. Because proven false accusations are pretty rare and it's much more common that people get away with child abuse because the victim is pressured into recanting  or it can't be proven or it's too hard for the victim to testify or they never report it to begin with because the abuser is a pillar of society and nobody would believe it anyway, and so on. 

[Grimalkin]

        As I sit and fold laundry while watching a documentary about sea monsters with my son I decided I want to be called Duchess for now on. I'm adding it to my name. I still have time to edit my info in the school directories too! I wonder if a tiara would be taking it too far?

 

*My son just startled me by jumping on the couch in excitement at the mention of megladon.

[formergothardite]

 

32 minutes ago, Grimalkin said:

I wonder if a tiara would be taking it too far?

Of course it wouldn't, Duchess Grimalkin! 

@oldsalty, if you aren't the old Captain himself, you need to do some soul searching to figure out why mocking his dance moves upset you more than downplaying child molesting. And if you are the old Captain, well, you can't dance and you are not a captain. Plus, you are creepy.

 

[SpoonfulOSugar]

6 hours ago, oldsalty said:

I am looking at some of the rules here on this site and i guess I don't get how some of these comments follow rules.

I'm going to reiterate this for everyone.

If you believe a post violates the site rules, please report it using the "report post" button that appears in the bar at the top of the post.  We are a self-policing site and depend on members to let us know when they see violations.

[DaisyD]

Isn't it against the rules to repeatedly flounce? It's definitely bad form, but I thought that one had been codified...

[CTRLZero]

My husband, who was a real captain, is somewhat envious of Captain Bret's "Love Boat" dance moves.  The video is chuckle worthy, between cringes.

I'm a little (or a lot) confused, how are Bret Alan Smith and Daniel Sheats related?   Or are they just part of the intermarriage of these families?   Thank you to anyone who can shed light on this.

[AmazonGrace]

Alan's mother's maiden name is Sheats I think, she's listed Jackie Sheats as an alias on FB. 

[MamaJunebug]

"Cap'n" Bret and "Commodore" L. Ron -- I knew there was a reason Smith, Sr.'s videos seemed creepy!!!

[Lurky]

I lurked for ages when I joined, and have always been a little bit suspicious of people who claim to have secret insider info but won't talk to the Mods, like the recent "I grew up with the Bateses", because this is the internet.

However, coming onto a thread about child sexual assault to what I can only guess is to troll us - especially in the face of the Morton/Smith young adults' public statements, is just despicable. 

I feel like there's a checklist somewhere - "I know the real story"/"you're all so rude"/repeat flouncing/"Let's play Devil's Advocate and say I'm the only fair one" - would all be on it.  But on a thread about child abuse?  These are real people's lives.

ETA:  Plus "I used to be on FJ before but you're all horrible, so I came back to tell you that"

(I know, I know, I shouldn't feed the troll, but UGH)

[Feministe9000]

i'm sure i will get a sarcastic or scathing or patronizing response from someone, which is pretty much expected whenever anybody says that other readers/posters on FJ are being over-the-top or annoying. I get sometimes you guys get very defensive because you've invested so much into the story and if you have some kind of personal connection to something as horrific as this SMorton tragedy (i hope Alan is locked up for life too, believe me!)

 

But seriously, just reading the back and forth this last page between people it's like......please, can you just calm the fuck down and move on?

Sometimes I don't know what you would do if you weren't able to launch into a tirade or diatribe when you feel someone on this site has wronged you/criticized you in some way.

 

let it gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

You guys are annoying.

 

Cue the "GET OFF FJ IF YOU DON'T LIKE READING THIS" rant, foaming at the mouth practically......but i'm not here to make friends, so go for it!!!

Aaaannndddd here's the downvotes LOL

 

you guys take yourselves so seriously, and you complain about Pickles?

LOL

sit down.

[AmazonGrace]

On Captain Bret's FB he shares a story about one of his children getting baptized and someone tells the chiid,  "welcome to the family",

[Palimpsest]

2 hours ago, Grimalkin said:

        As I sit and fold laundry while watching a documentary about sea monsters with my son I decided I want to be called Duchess for now on. I'm adding it to my name. I still have time to edit my info in the school directories too! I wonder if a tiara would be taking it too far?

I'd go ahead and break out the full parure.

 

[fundiefan]

Now  we have passive-aggressive martyrs, too? Oi Vey. The Internet makes everyone special, I guess.

Daniel Sheats is related to Alan Smith through his mother, Jacqueline Sheats Smith.

[formergothardite]

34 minutes ago, Feministe9000 said:

*quoted text removed for rule violation*  

You aren't that special. Not even roddma got banned and you have a long way to go if you want to even get close to being as complained about as she is. 

I did read the last couple of pages and I do get why people say they are going to flounce and then don't flounce, so oldsalty not leaving doesn't bother me. But this is a person who is calling us meanies for mocking Captain Bret while glossing over  Jackie's statement about child molesters. I'm not sure why we are the bad guys here.