Sister Wives: 4 Wives, 4 Threads - It's Karma!

[Fun Undies]

So I had initially just skipped to the end for the announcement on Sunday, and finally tonight, watched the actual episode in its entirety.  Anyone recall Meri saying "Alcohol isn't a tenet of our faith" during her wine tasting session with new bestie Sheryl, and then later, when Kody and Meri are sitting in therapy with Nancy, Kody is putting.a.wine.bottle.in.his.backpack.

So many questions: was this a souvenir from the wine tasting Meri schlepped all the way back from Georgia?  Did she drink the whole thing before the session and that's why she seemed happier? (I'm being totally serious here, one bottle would get me knock out drunk, so boy if she went from "I can't pick a wine off this wine menu" to emptying a whole bottle, then wowser she went from 0 to 60!) <--- I really mean that in a non judgemental, just surprised, sort of way.  Based on my own admitted bias of not being able to tolerate any alcohol. 

Or was it something Kody brought to the therapy session, in hopes it might help make "certain truths" better to swallow??

I really could care less what their alcohol consumption levels are, but if you're going to be all like, "We don't drink alcohol ever" to "When in Rome/Georgia" to a wine bottle being at your marriage counseling, I have to at least admit I'm a bit perplexed here . . . though nothing is as hypocritical as Kody having his panties in a bunch over the Hawaiian pig roast, claiming its sacrilegious to eat pork, when the man has been filmed eating bacon in the past.

Alright, back to Mariah being an awesome example of living fundie, and still finding the courage to come out on national television ~ she's up a gazillion points in my book

[Phoenix]

Kudos to Mariah! Along with other posters I wish her nothing but acceptance, love and happiness in living her truth. 

I doubt Meri and Kody are capable of making anything NOT about them.... which got me to thinking. Meri has already been rather a "second class" wife in her plural marriage since she was only able to have one child. She and Kody don't get along in the least and that seems to have been the case for a long time. Then add Meri being stripped of her position as the first and only legally married wife... I cannot help but wonder if Mariah coming out will be another "black mark" on Meri's status within the shitshow that is the Brown family?

Growing up Catholic my Mom did a real number on herself when my sibling came out. Mom beat herself up unmercifully wondering how "she had failed as a parent" that one of her kids turned out be lesbian. It took her five or six years and life ending cancer to finally come to peace with the fact my sister was gay and that it wasn't Mom's fault in any way shape or form. We were only Catholics, not fundies. 

I hope Meri is not doing that to herself or being made to feel that way by the other adults in the Brown family,

As far as the online cruelty...  ignore the  jerks and keep your chin up Mariah! 

[Natalie22]

3 hours ago, Fun Undies said:

  Anyone recall Meri saying "Alcohol isn't a tenet of our faith" during her wine tasting session with new bestie Sheryl, and then later, when Kody and Meri are sitting in therapy with Nancy, Kody is putting.a.wine.bottle.in.his.backpack.

I really could care less what their alcohol consumption levels are, but if you're going to be all like, "We don't drink alcohol ever" to "When in Rome/Georgia" to a wine bottle being at your marriage counseling, I have to at least admit I'm a bit perplexed here . . . though nothing is as hypocritical as Kody having his panties in a bunch over the Hawaiian pig roast, claiming its sacrilegious to eat pork, when the man has been filmed eating bacon in the past.
 

I think it's just their faith is evolving.  From what I understand they're now estranged from their old religious group, which is much more conservative than they are now (i.e. against gay marriage and homosexuality in general).  I think that change plus just the physical distance has allowed them to really consider what they consider important parts of their faith.  I wouldn't be surprised if they are all in different places right now, similar to the family from My 5 Wives.  I don't think they've quite left the group as much as Brady's family, but are on a similar path.

This time isn't the first time the wives have had a drink either.  When all the wives went away together, all but Robyn tried some beer (at least I think it was beer) just to try it.

[Fun Undies]

@Natalie22 ah, that makes sense ~ thanks Natalie.

I guess it'd be easier if they just out and said they are no longer affiliated with their home church (sidenote: when was the last time we saw them having a service in their home?  Though then again, that was the Robyn's cookie service, right?  Don't know if you can top that).  I felt like "My 5 Wives" was far more direct in their "We've moved into other avenues with our faith - but not everyone on the same level".  I could appreciate the honesty and straightforwardness, which is sorely lacking in "Sister Wives".

[Rachel333]

Didn't Kody and Meri also drink when they went to Mexico in one of the first two seasons? They've talked about drinking a few times, saying that it's not really a part of their faith but they do drink occasionally.

From what I understand, the LDS are very strict about alcohol consumption but other Mormon groups are less so. Even the LDS weren't always strictly anti-alcohol; in the early days of the church the Word of Wisdom was more of a guide than a rule. Joseph Smith drank alcohol and there are accounts of events like the Kirtland temple dedication where members drank quite a bit of wine in the temple!

[front hugs > duggs]

One thing that caught me off guard in the article was this:

Quote

For Kody, he knew as a father of 18 children (who all star on the family’s TLC series Sister Wives) there was a good possibility one or more of his kids would be gay.

I would be SHOCKED if JB&M Duggar or Kelly and Gil Bates ever had that same thought. I almost want to give him credit on this one.

[SweetFellowshipper]

@Fun Undies, I agree re: the shifting rules. People's views totally change, I get that, but I wish they'd address their beliefs more sometimes. In LDS & other fundie Mormon faiths, there are levels of heaven. Polygamists who have been faithful get their own planet with many wives giving them spirit children for eternity. Obedient wives are allowed in by their husbands. This is the celestial kingdom. Those who do not make the cut go to the telestial or terrestrial kingdoms, the middle and bottom, respectively, which are very nice (not purgatory or hell) but nothing compared to the celestial. People from the celestial kingdom can visit them but they cannot visit the celestial kingdom. Outer darkness is for those who have felt the spirit and deny it. 

They believe that only Mormons, and for fundies, only polygamist Mormons, can be sealed for eternity with their families in the celestial kingdom. I really want to know if the Browns still believe this, or which of them do. And then does that mean they believe their kids won't be there? Their religion dictates that they won't because they are monogamous. I get that there are lots of religious people who don't mind that their kids don't share their views, but I guess as a non religious person I don't understand how someone who is truly fundie enough to be polygamous because they think it is literally dictated by Heavenly Father (LDS God, who they believe to be flesh and blood and a polygamist who had physical sex with Mary, not a spirit, btw) could be like 'oh OK cool' if their kids aren't going to be with them for eternity. The only explanation is that they really don't believe it or just secretly hope they will change and become AUB and polygamous again. Well, also, there are baptisms for the dead in their religion so maybe they think it will just be sorted out after death? 

[SummerRocks]

So many thoughts! 

First of all - yay go Mariah! I thought the announcement was pretty cool and I don't think Meri was told in advance, which she shouldn't have considering they claim to all be parents (plus Christines mom) and the bio mother&daughter relationship isn't the best. The reaction was meh, but whatever I didn't expect anything more from the Browns. 

Did anyone find it strange that Meri seemed so at ease and comfortable with Cheryl, a woman she had never met in real life. I saw both of them sitting on that couch of the therapist and thought "geez, she has no issues sitting next to this stranger, yet when asked to sit next to Janelle on a two seater this seemed a real big deal". I get that Cheryl and Meri bonded over their Jackie/Sam experience, but Janelle is her sister wife! I also found Meri all smiley and giggly with Cheryl, which -to me- only confirms she is not happy within the family, I never see her like that in interactions with her family. 

Why exactly were Janelle and Christine not told of this trip to Georgia? Makes no sense to tell Robyn and not the other two. 

[Carm_88]

55 minutes ago, front hugs > duggs said:

For Kody, he knew as a father of 18 children (who all star on the family’s TLC series Sister Wives) there was a good possibility one or more of his kids would be gay.

I am shocked that Kody thought of this! I'm glad that he is living in the real world though. I hope that they can all continue to be supportive of Mariah. She is going to need it. 

[ChunkyBarbie]

I am kind of surprised that Meri and Kody admitted that their marriage hasn't been good for years. It has been obvious to viewers since the get go. No one has ever seemed really happy except Kody. Well, and Robyn.

The Browns have been trying to sell the big happy family myth, but reality doesn't jive with that.  How can you be one happy family when two of the wives don't like each other, to the point that one packs up her kids and leaves? They don't even bother waving to each other when they are both outside.  Another wife doesn't feel loved or important to the husband. And another wife is clearly favored. The list goes on.  I wonder too, if they still think they are making polygamy look anything other than a bad idea. 

I will say, I am pleased that Kody and the other wives seemed to support Mariah. Hopefully, Meri gets there, if she isn't. I do feel she was blindsided, but their relationship was already very rocky. Get it together Meri!

[Fun Undies]

12 hours ago, Fun Undies said:

@Natalie22 ah, that makes sense ~ thanks Natalie.

I guess it'd be easier if they just out and said they are no longer affiliated with their home church (sidenote: when was the last time we saw them having a service in their home?  Though then again, that was the Robyn's cookie service, right?  Don't know if you can top that).  I felt like "My 5 Wives" was far more direct in their "We've moved into other avenues with our faith - but not everyone on the same level".  I could appreciate the honesty and straightforwardness, which is sorely lacking in "Sister Wives".

^ so turns out the above was my 100th post, and instead of some awesome, deeply theological discussion between intellectuals of various faiths, and philosophies to commemorate the post count . . . I end up talking about Robyn's cookies *gag*

 

[SweetFellowshipper]

5 hours ago, Carm_88 said:

I am shocked that Kody thought of this! I'm glad that he is living in the real world though. I hope that they can all continue to be supportive of Mariah. She is going to need it. 

This is exactly why I can't ever hate him as much as other fundie dads. He is a self centered douche and I'll continue to mock him, but he's extremely supportive of all his kids' choices. Extremely. Even if they differ from his own. So even though he seems like a showboat, he isn't nearly as narcissistic as a JB type. Not even in the same realm.

[Natalie22]

43 minutes ago, SweetFellowshipper said:

This is exactly why I can't ever hate him as much as other fundie dads. He is a self centered douche and I'll continue to mock him, but he's extremely supportive of all his kids' choices. Extremely. Even if they differ from his own. So even though he seems like a showboat, he isn't nearly as narcissistic as a JB type. Not even in the same realm.

This is how I feel about the Browns in a nutshell.  Are they the best example of a stable, loving family? No  Do they have a lot of dysfunction? Yes But they are incredibly accepting of their children and have done their best to stop their religious beliefs from impacting their kids futures, both romantically and educationally.  At that point, I just feel that I may find them entertaining to watch, but I don't have any real disagreement with them.  If we use their level of dysfunction as a point of too harmful for children, then a huge number of children in monogamous families would also be in a large amount of trouble too.  

[IreneIssh]

16 hours ago, Natalie22 said:

This is how I feel about the Browns in a nutshell.  Are they the best example of a stable, loving family? No  Do they have a lot of dysfunction? Yes But they are incredibly accepting of their children and have done their best to stop their religious beliefs from impacting their kids futures, both romantically and educationally.  At that point, I just feel that I may find them entertaining to watch, but I don't have any real disagreement with them.  If we use their level of dysfunction as a point of too harmful for children, then a huge number of children in monogamous families would also be in a large amount of trouble too.  

I agree. This is how I always justify watching Sister Wives. The relationships among the adults are dysfunctional, but I never get the sense that I'm actively watching children in an abusive situation like I do when I watch the Duggars. For all of their idiocy and drama, the Browns have raised some fairly well adjusted kids who also seem to be smart and capable.

[ChickenettiLuvr]

Perhaps I'm losing my eyesight ... but why does Mariah look so different in the cover photograph on People?  If I hadn't known who she was, I wouldn't have recognized her.  Is it darker hair ... or eyebrows ... or something?

A few ponderings from my own fundie family & fundie-lite extended family ...
1. Many of my family members live in the Bible Belt.  Most of them aren't sanctimonious, though.  They're just committed to their faith.  Anyway, my cousin's daughter (age 28) recently came out as gay and married her partner.  Her parents (fundie lite) and grandmother would not attend the wedding.  But I was pleased to see that Daughter & Wife have since been included in all family photos and events since the wedding.  My 80-something aunt is becoming much better about dealing with it and seems to be accepting the situation.  (Still hoping for complete acceptance.)

2. My nephew is gay (age 24).  Everyone in the extended family knows it (I think) except for his grandparents and my parents.  To them, his partner of several years is just "that friend he's taken up with in college."  He still uses his bff from junior high & high school as a cover when he needs it.  Anyway, my kids and I realized he was gay 10 years ago.  Didn't bother us one bit.  In fact, we still help to protect him when necessary.  The sad truth is this:  They're probably waiting for his grandparents to pass before he can be open about it.  The rest of us just wink and smile and follow his mom's wishes to protect his identity.  We couldn't be any prouder of him.

3. Three years ago over Easter weekend, my daughter & her man came to visit as I was two weeks post-op from a major abdominal surgery.  They helped get the ham and other dishes into the oven, then we all went out on the patio to soak up some sun.  We were just chatting about this and that ... and somehow the conversation turned to "expectations for children while they're growing up." :

ChickenettiLuvr (an evangelical, not even fundie-lite):  "Gma always told me, 'If you go and get yourself pregnant, don't bother coming home.'"
Daugher's Man (atheist):  [muttered expletives]
Dear Daughter (evangelical):  "Niiiiice."
CL:  "So if Daughter or Son came home and said, "Mom, I'm pregnant' or 'Mom, my girlfriend is pregnant,' it wouldn't have been the end of the world.
   ...."But if one of them came home and said, 'Mom, I'm gay,' it would have broken my heart because" ....
DD:  [shooting daggers at me]
DM:  [steam coming out of his ears, ready to cold-cock me!!!]
CL:  ..."I knew how much harder that family -- and life -- would be for them."
DD & DM:  [visibly relaxed, no one hit me] 

4.  At Christmas this year:  One of our elderly fundie family members was lamenting the appearance of "The Gayz" on Wheel of Fortune.  
Bewildered, I asked:  "How would you know????"  [insert swift kick under the table from my dear Hubby]  
Family:  "Because they introduce their husband or wife in the audience."
CL:  [Incredulous]  "How about we just be KIND and NICE to everyone???"  [repeat swift kick from DH]

**I swear -- DH has two of you FJ Snarkettes on payroll to stir the pot with my family!  And he just sits back to enjoy the shit show and his snacks.

[Pukingpearl]

I haven't watched the episode yet, but wow! I totally agree with everyone. Kody is a total idiot and Robyn drives me nuts, but the Brown family as a whole shows I much more unconditional love toward their children than the other fundies on TV. They're totally dysfunctional in many ways, but at least they attempt things like legitimate counseling and engaging in discussions with people who don't agree with them. 

[ChunkyBarbie]

Did anyone else see that Maddie is pregnant? 

She is due May 23. 

[season of life]

10 minutes ago, ChunkyBarbie said:

Did anyone else see that Maddie is pregnant? 

She is due May 23. 

Yep! Other TLC stars that are pregnant are Jill and Jessa and that woman married to Zach Roloff.

I'm not the authority on parenthood, but Maddie seems a little young to have children whereas her husband is nearly 30, a decent age for kids.

[ChunkyBarbie]

6 minutes ago, season of life said:

Yep! Other TLC stars that are pregnant are Jill and Jessa and that woman married to Zach Roloff.

I'm not the authority on parenthood, but Maddie seems a little young to have children whereas her husband is nearly 30, a decent age for kids.

Yes, I was a little saddened that she got pregnant so soon. I hope she continues with school if that is one if her life goals. 

[IreneIssh]

12 minutes ago, ChunkyBarbie said:

Yes, I was a little saddened that she got pregnant so soon. I hope she continues with school if that is one if her life goals. 

Yeah, I was too. Especially because she specifically said that she wanted to wait a few years to have kids when she got engaged. 

[ChunkyBarbie]

1 hour ago, IreneIssh said:

Yeah, I was too. Especially because she specifically said that she wanted to wait a few years to have kids when she got engaged. 

I am extra glad her husband seems like such a nice and mature man.  I hope Mykelti doesn't get pregnant tight away. She and Tony do not seem to be ready to be parents at all. I mean that with all sincerity and no snark. 

[Phoenix]

I also just got a chance to watch the season opener. Robyn is so incredibly insincere! "What word don't you like, victim?" Kody saying Meri needs to get over the catfishing incident, and big chunks of the rest of the episode  was digging up all the details. Way to get past it? I think not!

Other Robyn quote, "I didn't know we had such a big crack" that someone could get to Meri like that. Sure.... as if Robyn wasn't the single biggest reason in the family Meri is increasingly isolated from the rest of the group!?  As if she cares about Meri in the least! It is not believable. She isn't just a ham fisted manipulator but a terrible actress. How does Kody even pretend to fall for her garbage? 

[SweetFellowshipper]

I actually thought the most interesting part of the episode, besides the coming out, was Meri and Kody's admission that their relationship had been really bad for about 12 years. So that's long before Robyn (and made me really curious about the catalysts), but also long before the show. So they went on the show knowing their marriage was in rough shape. 

[MsSaylor]

I find it weird that theyre saying now that kody and Meri's relationship has been that bad for that long. In the beginning of the show they always acted like their relationship was the strongest.  They talked about being able to have a different kind of relationship since there wasnt so many little kids around, coming to Meri's was a break for Kody etc. i always got the impression that Meri was considered the "soulmate" wife, at least out of the original 3. Also i remember Christine coming to Meri for counseling when she was struggling in her relationship.

In reality i think all the relationships have been shit since the beginning since Kody is a terrible partner for the most part, like i think in the real world hed be a serial monogamist with several divorces under his belt. But anyway, i feel like they are really changing the narrative here wrt to kody and meris relationship. 

[Natalie22]

1 hour ago, MsSaylor said:

I find it weird that theyre saying now that kody and Meri's relationship has been that bad for that long. In the beginning of the show they always acted like their relationship was the strongest.  They talked about being able to have a different kind of relationship since there wasnt so many little kids around, coming to Meri's was a break for Kody etc. i always got the impression that Meri was considered the "soulmate" wife, at least out of the original 3. Also i remember Christine coming to Meri for counseling when she was struggling in her relationship.

In reality i think all the relationships have been shit since the beginning since Kody is a terrible partner for the most part, like i think in the real world hed be a serial monogamist with several divorces under his belt. But anyway, i feel like they are really changing the narrative here wrt to kody and meris relationship. 

I don't think this is true.  In the first season there was an episode where Kody and Meri went out for dinner for their anniversary and they were talking about how their relationship had not been good for a while.  I don't think they've ever kept it as a secret that they've struggled to be happy together, I just don't think they ever admitted (publicly or to themselves) just how constant the 'badness' was in their relationship.  I think the reason Christine went to Meri is because how difficult Meri and Kody's marriage has/had been.  I'm sure Meri's was a break for Kody, but that has more to do with the number of kids than their actual marriage.

I think in the beginning they never really realized just how bad their relationships were.  I think Christine was the happiest, partially because it seems Christine tries not to be anything but happy (which seems to have caused the friction in her marriage when Robyn joined).  I think Kody and Janelle had never been very romantic, but they've said since moving to Las Vegas that part of their relationship has changed a bit so that their marriage is stronger.