Jill, Derick and Israel- Part 17

[Ungodly Grandma]

12 hours ago, ClaraOswin said:

I'm guessing they put these little tidbits out there to try to seem more "normal" to the general public. Yeah...good luck with that, Duggars.

Yes, all the Duggar girls are marrying "bad boys!"

[karen77]

8 minutes ago, Ungodly Grandma said:

Yes, all the Duggar girls are marrying "bad boys!"

well, they'd like you to think that!! when in reality they are just vanilla on vanilla.

[Bushes of Love]

On 07/07/2016 at 0:53 AM, lascuba said:

I could see her being one of those white people with dreadlocks. 

I was a white person with dreadlocks a year ago....It wasn't my best look. I blame the fact that I used to be a massive stoner/crusty. I could also see Jill and Derick being massive hippies like that too.

[Fundie Bunny]

16 minutes ago, karen77 said:

well, they'd like you to think that!! when in reality they are just vanilla on vanilla.

They are not vanilla. Vanilla is tasty and classical. They are ice.

[Mercer]

Without further speculation about Derrick's personal health situation (I think that dead horse is already well beaten,) I do think that fundie beliefs add an extra layer of tension to a health concern in general. It's difficult for any family, but the rigid gender roles would make it even more of a crisis because the wife would often be completely unprepared to financially support the family, and in many cases the husband would be unprepared to take primary care of the children and the home. They've been told so many times that men and women are different... so when they're put in a situation where they can't stick to the sphere they've been told God has assigned them, I can only imagine it would be a lot harder to cope with than for a more egalitarian family. In that sort of case, their extreme beliefs would very much be a factor in the situation, and would make an already challenging situation into much more of an uphill battle. Messy reality has a way of interfering with tidy theories about how life has to be.

Much as I disagree with fundie beliefs, I don't want them to suffer - and even more so, I don't want their children to suffer. I don't want that for anyone, no matter how self-righteous and/or annoying they are.

Back to Jill and Derrick in particular: I certainly don't think people should be awful to them, though we're all going to draw different lines for what being awful entails. That said, the Dillards have had complete control over the words and images they choose to share. It's not like the pictures of them are being stolen from a private Facebook or being snapped against their will by paparazzi. If the Dillards want to be media personalities (and they seem pretty firmly invested in that goal at this point,) they need to get a little smarter about their self-presentation. There have been so many times when Jill or Derrick have posted something that might worry other people without providing any context - at some point they have to take some responsibility for what they've decided to share, rather than just expecting the general public to never react or speculate in response to whatever they've thrown out there. Social media is not always kind, and feedback is not always positive.

[Ungodly Grandma]

44 minutes ago, Fundie Bunny said:

They are not vanilla. Vanilla is tasty and classical. They are ice.

Ice in those old plastic cube containers, tasting of too old freezer stuff!  

[Buzzard]

15 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

Jeremy has a scandalous past. Horrors. Derrick dated before he met Jill, and Benessa talked on the phone without a chaperone. Will the debauchery never end? Maybe they had phone hand holding. I'm afraid this has ruined my good opinion of the Duggars, and I may never be able to watch the show again. 

And Josh...

So, who's raising kids the "wrong way" now?  

[JesSky03]

I am curious how they address the fact that Derick had girlfriends prior to courting Jill. Like how did they, in their strict gothard and courtship bullshit, decide that this was okay? If a male fundy wants to date a female outside the cult who has had boyfriends is that okay? Wishful thinking but I would like an explanation of their thought process. 

[lizzybee]

On 7/2/2016 at 4:57 PM, Four is Enough said:

What is that, exactly?

I know this topic got left behind, but I briefly went to church with a guy who went to school and got a degree for Biblical Counseling. His studies, at least, claim it does not prepare you for licensure. After stalking his Facebook, I found where he went Luther Rice College and Seminary here's the program:

 

[ClaraOswin]

So in their new "ministry" photos...I'm pretty sure there's one of Derick sporting some sort of man bun or ponytail. With their strict gender roles...is that even allowed??

[Bushes of Love]

I don't know if this has been mentioned, but on the Duggar Official FB page there are photos of James' birthday and they mention how it's not long before the Dullards come back.

[Edhelfin]

2 hours ago, Bushes of Love said:

I was a white person with dreadlocks a year ago....It wasn't my best look. I blame the fact that I used to be a massive stoner/crusty. I could also see Jill and Derick being massive hippies like that too.

There is nothing wrong with non-African people wearing dreadlocks. Apart from Vikings, Greeks etc, many cultures had the look. Some Indian Sadhu monks still have long dreadlocks. It is not specific to Rastafarianism.

However, a white person claiming that the look ONLY belongs to white European cultures or a white person wearing dreadlocks but not showing respect towards African culture is unacceptable.

 

[ClaraOswin]

1 hour ago, Bushes of Love said:

I don't know if this has been mentioned, but on the Duggar Official FB page there are photos of James' birthday and they mention how it's not long before the Dullards come back.

I figured they'd be coming back sooner rather than later. I'm sure a pregnancy isn't far behind either. Blech.

[defraudedbychipendales]

23 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

The only male I could see not having a prior relationship at this point  is Ben - and that's mainly just because of how young he was when he started pursuing Jessa. It's entirely possible he had a girlfriend or two before he met her.

JB asked Ben if he had courted anyone before, and Ben said, "I've courted a few."

This was in the episode when he moved in (I think), as they were all sitting down to lunch. I tried to find the episode a while ago, but had no luck.

[ClaraOswin]

Ben never courted anyone before Jessa. The "boys" are all outside throwing tree limbs into a dumpster or whatever. And John David says, "Have you courted anyone before or is Jessa your first one?" And Ben says Jessa is the first one. 

I vividly remember this because it bothered me the way JD said "your first one." Just made it sound like she was a possession and not a person.

[Alicja]

There is nothing wrong with non-African people wearing dreadlocks. Apart from Vikings, Greeks etc, many cultures had the look. Some Indian Sadhu monks still have long dreadlocks. It is not specific to Rastafarianism.

However, a white person claiming that the look ONLY belongs to white European cultures or a white person wearing dreadlocks but not showing respect towards African culture is unacceptable.

 

The only concrete proof of Europeans wearing something similar to a dreadlock was the Polish Plait, which was seen as an amulet to ward off disease. Ironically, it was formed through a lack of hygiene. It's not a symbol of Polish culture. Dreadlocks are a symbol of Rastafarian culture, which is a facet of black culture.

[Edhelfin]

2 hours ago, Alicja said:

Dreadlocks are a symbol of Rastafarian culture, which is a facet of black culture.

That is true, however, only one example which is relatively contemporary. I did not know about Polish Plait, thanks for that information - many other cultures also had dreadlocks in history (Egyptians, Celts, Vikings, Greeks, Indians, Aztecs). I know pictorial depictions, statues etc may not be considered 'concrete' proof. So to get a contemporary example, please check Google Images for 'Sadhu dreadlocks', you will be surprised.

Also there are many non-Rastafarian black people sporting dreadlocks, who may hold no respect for the spiritual symbolism. Rastafarian community does face discrimination from black orthodox Christians from time to time. To claim that 'as long as you are black, it is okay to have dreadlocks as it is an aspect of black culture' would be horribly wrong, in my opinion. People cannot be grouped according to their skin colour and there are many individual cultures/countries in Africa alone (I know you did not say that - it just sprung to my mind so I thought I should add).

I think the best way forward would be to recognize many aspects of the WORLD culture, whether we like it or not, we are all rats in the same ship.

[KnittingOwl]

On July 6, 2016 at 4:53 PM, lascuba said:

I could see her being one of those white people with dreadlocks. 

That makes me think of Sparkling Lauren, which made me wonder what it would be like if Lauren & Jill met and were friends. Lauren is probably way too liberal to be friends with the Dillards though. 

[Fundie Bunny]

8 hours ago, ClaraOswin said:

Ben never courted anyone before Jessa. The "boys" are all outside throwing tree limbs into a dumpster or whatever. And John David says, "Have you courted anyone before or is Jessa your first one?" And Ben says Jessa is the first one. 

I vividly remember this because it bothered me the way JD said "your first one." Just made it sound like she was a possession and not a person.

It was Josh. With makes it even more disgusting

[defraudedbychipendales]

 

10 hours ago, ClaraOswin said:

Ben never courted anyone before Jessa. The "boys" are all outside throwing tree limbs into a dumpster or whatever. And John David says, "Have you courted anyone before or is Jessa your first one?" And Ben says Jessa is the first one. 

I vividly remember this because it bothered me the way JD said "your first one." Just made it sound like she was a possession and not a person.

And I remember Ben saying "a few". But Duggar stories never change, do they? <insert sarcasm>

[HarleyQuinn]

Derick was probably still a virgin, so that could've helped with the mental gymnastics Boob had to do to make him "acceptable" to his daughter. "Oh, it was just a few kisses, I'm sure his heart pieces are intact."

[crazysnark]

I doubt Derick was a virgin. He went away to college and probably did normal things like have sex with his girlfriend. His mom even said she discouraged dating only in the sense that he would waste a lot of money in the process. She is so right! I think it's bull that us women expect to be treated equally (rightfully so) but then still expect men to pay for everything! I enjoy going out and getting to know/ having fun but i can pay for my own damn dinner.

[Front Hugging Fiend]

33 minutes ago, crazysnark said:

I doubt Derick was a virgin. He went away to college and probably did normal things like have sex with his girlfriend. His mom even said she discouraged dating only in the sense that he would waste a lot of money in the process. She is so right! I think it's bull that us women expect to be treated equally (rightfully so) but then still expect men to pay for everything! I enjoy going out and getting to know/ having fun but i can pay for my own damn dinner.

Derick's dating experience pre-wedding is, in my opinion, none of my business... that being said, he definitely had more freedom before embracing fundiedom. 

As for paying for dates, I'm a big believer in 'You Ask, You Pay'. I'm an independent woman who can definitely pay for myself. But if someone asks to take me somewhere and they offer to pay, I'll let them. If we enjoy ourselves and do it again, I'll pay next time. You ask, you pay - and then you take turns. To me, it's less about 'chivalry' or 'men must pay'. It's just what you do when you like someone and you want to give them a good night out (and you have the means to do so).

[choralcrusader8613]

On 7/8/2016 at 11:15 AM, ClaraOswin said:

Well, I still want to know what went through his mind before posting a bible verse that's basically about his wife's breasts or whatever. I just don't really get why he would post this. But I'm not really into the bible, I guess.

It's something that I've heard people like the Duggars (as well as fundie-lite people) use when talking about "marriage is for life" and such. But still awkward.

[ClaraOswin]

9 hours ago, Fundie Bunny said:

It was Josh. With makes it even more disgusting

I am now not sure if the conversation I was thinking of was during the tree limb scene (Josh wasn't there) or when they were in DC and Josh and Ben were working out. I probably still have both buried on my DVR. I should look because it's going to bug me now.

ETA - So I found them.

Episode - A Duggar Says Yes - Episode where Ben asks to court Jessa.

They are outside the Duggar house throwing tree limbs around.

John David - "So have you courted anyone else or is Jessa your first one?"
Ben - "Jessa's the first one I've courted."

Then in a talking head, JD says "It's kind of obvious that us Duggar guys are pretty good at our job because Jana is 24 now...." And Joseph says, "still not married." And they sort of laugh. (Assholes.)

Episode - Couples' Weekend - Ben, Jessa, and Jinger go to D.C. This is well into the courtship, I think.

At the Gym. You can tell Josh never works out.

Josh - "So how many other girls have you courted?"
Ben - "Uhh...none." (He seems confused by the question.)

I can't recall an episode where he says he's courted others. But if anyone knows, I still have a bunch on my DVR and I can look. Because I am a loser.