Jill, Derick and Israel- Part 17

[lascuba]

On 7/8/2016 at 2:42 PM, Edhelfin said:

There is nothing wrong with non-African people wearing dreadlocks. Apart from Vikings, Greeks etc, many cultures had the look. Some Indian Sadhu monks still have long dreadlocks. It is not specific to Rastafarianism.

However, a white person claiming that the look ONLY belongs to white European cultures or a white person wearing dreadlocks but not showing respect towards African culture is unacceptable.

 

That's not true. The non-African cultures that wore matted hair looked nothing at all like dreadlocks, and they were tiny groups within those cultures that did it. Vikings didn't wear them at all, since combing their hair was a big thing with them. 

 

[Edhelfin]

On Wednesday, July 06, 2016 at 6:30 PM, lascuba said:

1 hour ago, lascuba said:

That's not true. The non-African cultures that wore matted hair looked nothing at all like dreadlocks, and they were tiny groups within those cultures that did it. 

Rastafarians are a tiny group within the vast black/African culture too. 

Sadhu monks do have dreadlocks that look like well... proper dreadlocks. 

 

 

[daniee]

They are headed back to the USA.

http://www.inquisitr.com/3290064/duggar-family-announces-jill-and-derick-returning-to-u-s-a-as-duggars-return-to-television-again/

 

[Mela99]

16 minutes ago, daniee said:

They are headed back to the USA.

http://www.inquisitr.com/3290064/duggar-family-announces-jill-and-derick-returning-to-u-s-a-as-duggars-return-to-television-again/

 

Well of course, what's a year long or more commitment to God's calling when there's FILMING TO BE DONE!? 

[lascuba]

55 minutes ago, Edhelfin said:

 

I don't know why you keep mentioning Rsatafarians when dreadlocks have long been around the African diaspora. Maybe you only know of dreadlocks because of them, but they've exists for much longer.

[Edhelfin]

56 minutes ago, lascuba said:

I don't know why you keep mentioning Rsatafarians when dreadlocks have long been around the African diaspora. Maybe you only know of dreadlocks because of them, but they've exists for much longer.

I do know that they have existed (and exist)  outside Rastafarian culture. In and out of Africa. 

[Jinder Roles]

Cultural appropriation isn't just about taking something from another culture. It's about taking something from a minority/ oppressed group. There are power dynamics involved.  We're not talking about Sadhu monks wearing dreadlocks (which is a part of their ritual). It's irrelevant. We're talking about white people with dreads. 

When white people (dominant/powerful group) appropriate dreadlocks from the black culture (minority/oppressed group) that is a problem. Because while white people are cool and trendy when wearing dreads, black people have been discriminated against for their dreadlocks as well as other cultural styles (afros, corn-rows). It's a problem that the dominant group gets take something from the oppressed group while  the oppressed are still systematically discriminated against. 

Hair is a very political topic, especially  black hair styles. See Zendaya and Kylie Jenner. Or Kylie Jenner in general. She profits off of black culture (lips, body shape, grills, clothing, hair extensions etc) while doing nothing to help black people. She annoys me so much.

And yes, maybe blacks may not be the only people to wear dreadlocks, but it has become a symbol of black culture. 

Ok, I'm done. Back to Jill and Derick. 

 

[Edhelfin]

2 minutes ago, Jinder Roles said:

Cultural appropriation isn't just about taking something from another culture. It's about taking something from a minority/ oppressed group. There are power dynamics involved.  We're not talking about Sadhu monks wearing dreadlocks (which is a part of their ritual). It's irrelevant. We're talking about white people with dreads. 

When white people (dominant/powerful group) appropriate dreadlocks from the black culture (minority/oppressed group) that is a problem. Because while white people are cool and trendy when wearing dreads, black people have been discriminated against for their dreadlocks as well as other cultural styles (afros, corn-rows). It's a problem that the dominant group gets take something from the oppressed group while  the oppressed are still systematically discriminated against. 

Hair is a very political topic, especially  black hair styles. See Zendaya and Kylie Jenner. Or Kylie Jenner in general. She profits off of black culture (lips, body shape, grills, clothing, hair extensions etc) while doing nothing to help black people. She annoys me so much.

And yes, maybe blacks may not be the only people to wear dreadlocks, but it has become a symbol of black culture. 

Ok, I'm done. Back to Jill and Derick. 

 

Indeed, that is why I think there is nothing wrong with an educated, politically conscious white person sporting dreadlocks (they may even have had the tradition in their distant past heritage once upon a time). That kind of white person would recognize the crimes of humanity committed against black people and use the cultural appreciation in a positive way -  to show that this shared tradition of hairstyle has to be accepted. A notoriously intolerant Duggar with white saviour syndrome or a shallow Jenner/Kardashian girl on the other hand... not so much. 

Sorry for contributing to the thread drift, I will go back to reading about Dullards.

 

[SilverBeach]

4 hours ago, lascuba said:

That's not true. The non-African cultures that wore matted hair looked nothing at all like dreadlocks, and they were tiny groups within those cultures that did it. Vikings didn't wear them at all, since combing their hair was a big thing with them. 

 

Yep. Bone straight hair will not "lock". Locking is a process that works with kinky hair. 

[The limit does not exist]

I am white and grew up in a pretty affluent area that was approx. 90% white, 8% Asian and 2% black. When I was in grade school it was common for girls that had gone on vacation to the Caribbean to get cornrows or braids of some type done and then show them off at school. It was almost a status symbol because it meant you went on vacation. I understand why people consider it cultural appropriation when whites have hairstyles like that but if my future daughter wants cornrows when we're on vacation I don't think that's a good enough reason to say no. 

[EmCatlyn]

17 hours ago, HarleyQuinn said:

Derick was probably still a virgin, so that could've helped with the mental gymnastics Boob had to do to make him "acceptable" to his daughter. "Oh, it was just a few kisses, I'm sure his heart pieces are intact."

What mental gymnastics?   IMHO, JB would not have been concerned about "lost heart pieces" just because Derick dated.  I am sure JB himself went on a few dates before Michelle, and he seems to have enough "heart pieces" for her.

As I understand it, "heart pieces" are lost when you have a relationship that fails, not when you lose your "purity. "  The whole fundie opposition to dating is that it is too superficial, so the heart may not be involved at all. 

To be sure, the way the Duggars talk, it's easy to think that "losing heart pieces" is a euphemism for losing "purity," but I think they are two different concepts.  "Purity" has to do with sexual thoughts or experiences.  The "heart pieces" have to do with becoming close to and caring about someone.   There is obviously a connection between emotional closeness and sexual desire.  And there are obviously many cases where increased emotional closeness leads to physical intimacy.  But you can "lose heart pieces" without any "sinful" physical contact... And you can lose "purity" without having involved your heart at all.  It is called "lust."  

While I do not doubt that JB interrogated Derick (and Ben, and now Jeremy) about sexual experiences and so forth,  I don't think that JB would have assumed that dating or even sleeping around would mean that "heart pieces" were given away.    A man can always say that he "succumbed to lust" but now repents without there being a concern about "heart pieces."  And I would guess that all the prospective son-in-laws admitted to succumbing to lust at least once, even if all it amounted to was a nocturnal emission while dreaming about Adam and Eve.  (I would also guess that JB secretely enjoyed the "frank confessions" of the reformed sinners.)

Incidentally, the song "Try to Remember" from The Fantastiks has a great line that I always think of when I hear the Duggar nonsense about "heart pieces":

"Without a hurt, the heart is hollow."

The whole idea of "courtship," is supposed to be to protect people from broken hearts. But not only is that not true (you can have your heart broken even if you court) but it is unrealistic.  If you try to hide from the possibility of heartbreak, you are probably not going to know love. The heart will be "hollow."

[lascuba]

I think people greatly underestimate just how serious the Duggars are about both "heart for ministry" and the whole Christian concept of everything being forgivable through Christ. They're hypocrites in all sorts of ways, but allowing their daughters to marry men with any sort of romantic history isn't one of them. Jim Bob and Michelle's whole shtick is that they had so many problems because Jim Bob was so insecure that Michelle dated other guys  she gave away pieces of her heart before meeting Jim Bob, but it all worked out because Jesus. As long as Derrick and Jeremy talked a good game about how they learned from their sinful mistakes, there's no reason for JB to object. Quite the contrary...those guys can personally contribute to the  born-again narrative in a way that the Duggar children just can't. 

[accountingstar]

I feel that Derick is going for the Matthew McConaughey look.

This was from their blog:

This is from Dazed and Confused:

Their latest blog post talks about them coming back to the States:

Quote

Shortly after the July teams leave, we plan to return home for a little while. It will have been over a year since we began working in Central America and about 10 months since we’ve been in the states. We are looking forward to being home with family (and Chick-fil-A ;-) and plan to take some Bible classes and be involved in local ministry while we’re there.

https://www.dillardfamily.com/blog

Really! You missed Chick-fil-a. I can think of some many other restaurants or cuisines that I would miss more than Chick-fil-a. Like sushi or Chinese. 

Wonder how long they will stay for and if they will go back to working for SOS? May Jill is pregnant? Why not take Spanish classes because you still need a translator?

[LittleSpouseOnThePrairie]

On July 10, 2016 at 9:23 AM, accountingstar said:

 

Wonder how long they will stay for and if they will go back to working for SOS? May Jill is pregnant? Why not take Spanish classes because you still need a translator?

That was my first thought. Keep up on the Spanish so they continue to improve, or at least don't forget what little they've learned if they plan to go back someday.

I feel like even though they finally stuck out a longer commitment to stay for a while, they still didn't progress as I much would have expected long-term missionaries to. I know they are busy with Izzy, but I must have too high expectations, I guess.

[ClaraOswin]

I'm sure they are home to film stuff for the show. But I wouldn't be surprised if a pregnancy soon followed.

If they plan to keep going to spanish speaking countries...they really do need to learn how to speak it.

Isn't it quite warm where they are? Why the heck is that child in a long-sleeved shirt? It always bugs me when kids aren't appropriately dressed.

[anjulibai]

Jill looks really nice in that picture. Derick, though.....is no Matthew McConaughey. 

I'm wondering about the Bible classes. Perhaps that's a response to criticism that they have no real theological training. I would also hope they'd continue with Spanish, but I doubt it somehow.

I do think they are going to want to get another baby going soon - it's been a while and they need to keep interest up. 

[CoveredInBees]

I think his hair may have finally got past that awkward stage when you grow it out, I've had enough awkward hairdos in the past to know what that's like (yes I had a mullet in the 80's).

I've finally looked up Chick-fil-a: Menu looks like something between McDonalds and KFC............ so I would totally eat there  

[Bad Wolf]

I like the pic of Derrick. Long hair, scruffy beard, he looks happy. Maybe 9-5 wasn't for him, but maybe he can find something challenging which doesn't involve converting other Christians.

[Four is Enough]

I'm just gonna say it. Snark away at me. That waistband of the skirt is pulled up higher than I'd expect it to be. She's not a short waisted gal. So what's she trying to hide? Huh?

[Alicja]

On 7/9/2016 at 2:22 AM, Edhelfin said:

That is true, however, only one example which is relatively contemporary. I did not know about Polish Plait, thanks for that information - many other cultures also had dreadlocks in history (Egyptians, Celts, Vikings, Greeks, Indians, Aztecs). I know pictorial depictions, statues etc may not be considered 'concrete' proof. So to get a contemporary example, please check Google Images for 'Sadhu dreadlocks', you will be surprised.

Also there are many non-Rastafarian black people sporting dreadlocks, who may hold no respect for the spiritual symbolism. Rastafarian community does face discrimination from black orthodox Christians from time to time. To claim that 'as long as you are black, it is okay to have dreadlocks as it is an aspect of black culture' would be horribly wrong, in my opinion. People cannot be grouped according to their skin colour and there are many individual cultures/countries in Africa alone (I know you did not say that - it just sprung to my mind so I thought I should add).

I think the best way forward would be to recognize many aspects of the WORLD culture, whether we like it or not, we are all rats in the same ship.

Many other cultures do wear locs, this is true. However, it's debatable as to whether or not ancient Europeans wore their hair in locs. This page breaks it down pretty well: http://people.howstuffworks.com/dreadlock6.htm 

I'm not going to speak on whether or not it's okay for non-Rastafari black folks to wear dreadlocks because I'm not black-however I will say that kinky or curly hair textures, regardless of race, do tend to mat on their own without any external effort (i.e backcombing), regardless of race or ethnicity. Some people find maintaining these textures to be difficult, so some might let their hair mat out of convenience. 

Also, because of global white supremacy, unfortunately people and cultures ARE grouped together according to skin color. This is especially true in America, because African slaves were stripped of their culture and identity upon being taken prisoner by slave traders. The same happened to white folks in America: once you came here, you could no longer be <insert European ethnicity here>, you had to become a white American. Hence, the black and white cultural monolith was born. The reason why Rastafari culture is seen as a subset of black culture is because A) Rastafari is a black-centric religion and B: race in America is incredibly monolithic. Whiteness in America is seen as being superior to any other race, and a lot of horrible things have been done in the name of white supremacy, which is why people of color (in this case, black people) can get offended by white people adopting symbols of POC cultures. Note: race and ethnicity are relative concepts, so racial and ethnic barriers vary from country to country and culture to culture. This is one explanation of how it works in America, I'm not sure where you live so it might be different for you. I hope this helps you understand some of the points you brought up a bit more.

I'm mainly arguing that locs are not culturally significant in modern white European culture, hence why I don't buy the argument that the Celts/Vikings/ whoever wore dreadlocks as a justification for a white person wearing dreadlocks. Like I said before, I'm not black, so it's really not my place to argue whether or not a white person wearing locs is appropriative. 

[sophie10130]

34 minutes ago, Four is Enough said:

I'm just gonna say it. Snark away at me. That waistband of the skirt is pulled up higher than I'd expect it to be. She's not a short waisted gal. So what's she trying to hide? Huh?

Just to be on the other side of this,

As soon as I got a little belly I immediately switched to high waisted EVERYTHING. jeans, shorts, swim suits, skirts, leggings, all of it. I LOVE HIGH WAISTED. I love feeling secure and I hate the feeling of my stomach rolling over my waistband. Thankfully, fashion is on my side. Plus it's much more flattering to have the waistband of a skirt like that at your natural waist than at your hips.

I like this look a lot more than a long t-shirt draping over a long skirt.

[Mela99]

So what would they do if they did some back to stay? Still not work? Convert local heathens? I wonder if Derrick misses having a "real" salaried job.

[Arix]

1 hour ago, Four is Enough said:

I'm just gonna say it. Snark away at me. That waistband of the skirt is pulled up higher than I'd expect it to be. She's not a short waisted gal. So what's she trying to hide? Huh?

Pregnancy changes a body. Probably trying to hide post-baby belly.

[nst]

On 7/7/2016 at 6:52 PM, Bad Wolf said:

 

I

22 hours ago, daniee said:

They are headed back to the USA.

http://www.inquisitr.com/3290064/duggar-family-announces-jill-and-derick-returning-to-u-s-a-as-duggars-return-to-television-again/

 

Well of course, what's a year long or more commitment to God's calling when there's FILMING TO BE DONE!? 

I love this - maybe perhaps we will see them coming home - oh boy 

[CorruptionInc.]

17 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

I am sure JB himself went on a few dates before Michelle, and he seems to have enough "heart pieces" for her.

 

 

I don't know about that...