JinJer 2: Courting, she did ride

[redhotmess]

13 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

Nope! Lol! We're in the greater New Haven area - we moved here three years ago this summer. We love this area because of the taxes, proximity to our hometown, lack of snobs, and how close we are to a bunch of parks and farms. But we had zero idea how racist a small percentage people here were before we moved. It's definitely been eye opening and disheartening to say the least.

I also grew up in the Greater New Haven area, Woodbridge now I live 40 miles north!  I miss the New Haven area there is so much to do down there.

As for JinJer it is frustrating and sad. 

[VelociRapture]

18 minutes ago, Imaginary_Wonderland said:

Finally I reach the end of both topics. Not sure what to say on this courtship right now, my thoughts and feelings on it have changed so much while reading through. The threads are moving too fast and my reading is too slow. And now I am confused and not sure what to think. 

Right now, I am confused by the timeline of events presented. There seem to be different dates, like December or Last May, or perhaps I'm picking it up wrong rushing through the posts trying to keep up. Could this Jeremy guy already be on the scene while all the Josh scandals broke? Perhaps not courting but even just a getting to know you phase. Or is it much more recent development than that?

It's a bit confusing. The Duggars are never clear about anything, especially courtship timelines. We still don't know when the "getting to know you" period actually started for Jill and Derick. We only knew about Ben and Jessa because someone spilled the beans ahead of time.

It sounds like May of 2015 is when they first met through Jessa and Ben. December 2015 is when he approached Boob about getting to know her better - a kind of pre-courtship stage I guess. The courtship likely happened sometime in the last couple of months. I don't think they'd have announced one right after it started because of what happened with Josiah. I see them being more cautious about these things then that now.

[JermajestyDuggar]

15 minutes ago, hollywood said:

I'm surprised that she is marrying someone so much older than her.

 

I'm surprised that so many people think 6 years is a major age difference. I've always dated much older men so 6 years is nothing to me.

[Ungodly Grandma]

1 minute ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I'm surprised that so many people think 6 years is a major age difference. I've always dated much older men so 6 years is nothing to me.

I've dated much younger men and I agree.

[HarleyQuinn]

Him being homeschooled, then playing soccer made me think of something .When I was in high school, home schooled kids could still try out for our sports. (not sure of the specifics) but there was one girl on my soccer team that was home schooled. Her family was pretty religious, but I don't think they were fundy. I've never thought about it until now, anyways. Her mother came and yelled at our coach one day because we were all discussing a sex ed video we had all watched in school about STD's and apparently that was way too graphic for her. 

This girl went on to become a traveling exotic dancer and judging by her facebook photos, she makes good money doing it. lol

But back to JinJer, I finally caved and watched that video. Usually I don't click on anything TLC related, but God she looks so awkward. She looked more natural when she was calling Joseph "her man" in his ALERT episode, and that right there is another problem with how the Duggars stunt their children. 

[19 cats and counting]

4 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I'm surprised that so many people think 6 years is a major age difference. I've always dated much older men so 6 years is nothing to me.

For normal people, the age difference is not a big deal.  But there's something about maturity that makes these relationships work too.  For all intents and purposes, Jinger is a teenager trapped in a 22 yo's body.  She lacks many of the life experiences that make people grow up.

[Imaginary_Wonderland]

When I first saw pictures of them together, I thought they looked like a good couple together. they looked  natural and connected or at least comfortable beside each other. Or at least compared to Josiah and Marjorie, who looked so awkward together that I felt awkward and uncomfortable even looking at pictures of them together. 

But watching that video of Jinger introducing him and announcing courtship, her body language interacting with him was awkward and she sounded so nervous and unsure when speaking, and the way she was looking up at him seems as if she was looking for his approval or checking she said it right enough for him. ( I am also a shortie at 5'0 so I do have to look up to everybody too, and I know he is tall, so maybe I am reading too much into it). I don't think he looked at her at all either ( but I will have to re-watch it to be sure).

Perhaps she is just shy, or perfectly meek to his standards, and it is coming off as awkward and uncomfortable. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

 

16 minutes ago, 19 cats and counting said:

For normal people, the age difference is not a big deal.  But there's something about maturity that makes these relationships work too.  For all intents and purposes, Jinger is a teenager trapped in a 22 yo's body.  She lacks many of the life experiences that make people grow up.

Not all of these fundies can marry someone their same age. Yes, there are a lot of fundies in the US thanks to them having large families but they still don't have an enormous dating pool. So there will probably be some couples with 6 year age differences. 

No matter Jeremy's age, I think there will be a maturity difference between these two because of Jeremy's life experiences compared to hers.

4 minutes ago, Imaginary_Wonderland said:

When I first saw pictures of them together, I thought they looked like a good couple together. they looked  natural and connected or at least comfortable beside each other. Or at least compared to Josiah and Marjorie, who looked so awkward together that I felt awkward and uncomfortable even looking at pictures of them together. 

But watching that video of Jinger introducing him and announcing courtship, her body language interacting with him was awkward and she sounded so nervous and unsure when speaking, and the way she was looking up at him seems as if she was looking for his approval or checking she said it right enough for him. ( I am also a shortie at 5'0 so I do have to look up to everybody too, and I know he is tall, so maybe I am reading too much into it). I don't think he looked at her at all either ( but I will have to re-watch it to be sure).

Perhaps she is just shy, or perfectly meek to his standards, and it is coming off as awkward and uncomfortable. 

Too bad the Duggars refuse to wear anything but flip flops. Alyssa Bates will wear enormous heels to help with the major height difference between She and John. Jill purposely went barefoot in her wedding because she loved the height difference. I'm starting to think that these fundies are so craze-balls over gender roles that they only want tall men. So I guess short guys don't get much interest. 

[SilverBeach]

19 hours ago, OldFadedStar said:

... I never said I was from Chicago. The rest of Illinois actually hates Chicago (maybe slight exaggeration). I live 5 hours from Chicago. 

Oh don't hate on us in Metro Chicago. I like all of my state. 

[Foudeb]

I know this is the next logical step for her and the only thing she can move on to in that fundie bubble, but I can't help but feel sorry for her. She'll have the big wedding and then the eleventy kids in quick succession and life of drudgery that goes with it and never will she ever be asked the question of what she wanted from life and what she wants to achieve, let alone being given the means to get there.

My only hope is that they discover contraception and use it. If only they had some time to grow accustomed to each other before going down a road that would lock them into the marriage and the lifestyle, I'd be a lot more confident this is something they both want and will be happy with.

Poor Jinger.

[CoveredInBees]

1 hour ago, Apricot said:

Not strictly true.  You can take GCSEs as an external candidate but you must have someone approved to mark coursework and exams have to be taken in regulated exam centres (in my school we had a girl who sat GCSEs with us who was homeschooled - she just came in to do exams)

SNIP

I stand corrected  I should maybe say this was only a few years after GCSEs took over from O Levels because, Yes, I'm THAT old   It's also a rather rural area so they may have weighed it up and decided it was a lot less faff than trying to find an approved marker for the coursework.

[quiverofdoubt]

Homeschooled kids can take all the sat/gre tests they want. Most public schools don't offer prep courses, those are done through private companies that parents pay for.  You don't need ps transcripts to take the ged in the US, that in fact is why we have the ged- for kids who didn't get  a ps diploma.  I believe it's title 9 that allows homeschooled kids to participate in at least one sport at their local ps.  At least in my state home school kids, even in elementary can not be stopped from participating in one team sport offered by their local school.

[19 cats and counting]

14 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Not all of these fundies can marry someone their same age. Yes, there are a lot of fundies in the US thanks to them having large families but they still don't have an enormous dating pool. So there will probably be some couples with 6 year age differences. 

Too bad the Duggars refuse to wear anything but flip flops. Alyssa Bates will wear enormous heels to help with the major height difference between She and John. Jill purposely went barefoot in her wedding because she loved the height difference. I'm starting to think that these fundies are so craze-balls over gender roles that they only want tall men. So I guess short guys don't get much interest. 

Alyssa Bates is a good example.  She married insanely young (19) but also pursued college (dropped out) and worked for a florist.  She may come across as a superficial twit, but I think she was more mature at marriage than Jill or Jessa (23 and 21).  Also say what you want about her, but she seems to have really flourished by being far from the nest (moreso than her older sister who also lives out of state).  If Jinger in Texas does half the job of Alyssa in Florida keeping her family at arm's length, then I'll  be happy.

As far as height goes.  If these fundie girls are only drawn to taller men (I won't lie, I don't want anyone under 6 feet for myself), then their dating pool is much smaller.  Even the eligible bachelor Lawson Bates said on Twitter that he's 5'9.  I don't think any Duggar or Bates boy is over 6 feet (the girls seem pretty short too).  

[Bad Wolf]

18 minutes ago, CoveredInBees said:

I stand corrected  I should maybe say this was only a few years after GCSEs took over from O Levels because, Yes, I'm THAT old   It's also a rather rural area so they may have weighed it up and decided it was a lot less faff than trying to find an approved marker for the coursework.

Ha! Got you beat. There were only O and A levels when I went to school. No course work involved, everything hung on those exams. No pressure there. Of course, I'm older than dirt. 

[Marissap]

2 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

Ha! Got you beat. There were only O and A levels when I went to school. No course work involved, everything hung on those exams. No pressure there. Of course, I'm older than dirt. 

Is this the same as OWLs from HP???

[Bad Wolf]

3 minutes ago, Marissap said:

Is this the same as OWLs from HP???

Similar, 

[VelociRapture]

27 minutes ago, 19 cats and counting said:

Alyssa Bates is a good example.  She married insanely young (19) but also pursued college (dropped out) and worked for a florist.  She may come across as a superficial twit, but I think she was more mature at marriage than Jill or Jessa (23 and 21).  Also say what you want about her, but she seems to have really flourished by being far from the nest (moreso than her older sister who also lives out of state).  If Jinger in Texas does half the job of Alyssa in Florida keeping her family at arm's length, then I'll  be happy.

As far as height goes.  If these fundie girls are only drawn to taller men (I won't lie, I don't want anyone under 6 feet for myself), then their dating pool is much smaller.  Even the eligible bachelor Lawson Bates said on Twitter that he's 5'9.  I don't think any Duggar or Bates boy is over 6 feet (the girls seem pretty short too).  

Alyssa has been married over two years now. Michael and Brandon haven't yet reached their first anniversary. Plus, Michael is likely surrounded by their family more often than Alyssa considering Brandon works at HQ and Gil has to travel there for Board meetings, etc. - it seems her parents use them for babysitting on a regular basis when they have business in the area. I don't think a comparision between the two is totally fair just yet (maybe by early next year when she's had more time out of her parents' house.)

[Ungodly Grandma]

49 minutes ago, quiverofdoubt said:

Homeschooled kids can take all the sat/gre tests they want. Most public schools don't offer prep courses, those are done through private companies that parents pay for.  You don't need ps transcripts to take the ged in the US, that in fact is why we have the ged- for kids who didn't get  a ps diploma.  I believe it's title 9 that allows homeschooled kids to participate in at least one sport at their local ps.  At least in my state home school kids, even in elementary can not be stopped from participating in one team sport offered by their local school.

It probably varies by state. Several years ago my niece, who lives in Texas sent her son to public school b/c he wasn't allowed by the school to play football unless he was a student. I believe the explanation was scholastic eligibility. 

[quiverofdoubt]

3 minutes ago, Ungodly Grandma said:

It probably varies by state. Several years ago my niece, who lives in Texas sent her son to public school b/c he wasn't allowed by the school to play unless he was a student. I believe the explanation was scholastic eligibility. 

I could be wrong here, but from what i understand title 9 is supposed to protect kids rights to play in school sports- even the home schooled ones.  So his school may have found a loop hole or a way around it, but it may also not be legal. They just know most parents don't have the resources to fight it.  So it's possible jeremy went to public to play soccer without having to fight legal battles or jump through hoops. It's also possible that he just really wanted to go to school and it took till junior year to convince his parents.  Or he made ps friends and wanted to spend more time with them, so it meant going to school. Or he felt a ps transcript would make college acceptance easier, especially if he had his eye on specific schools for their soccer teams.  

[Four is Enough]

Ha! Travelling in the USA, and big states! 

We once had a popup camper, and decided to do a bit of touring. We planned to go to the Grand Canyon of PA, (day or two) then up to Corning, NY, for the Corning Glass Works, on our way to Buffalo and Niagara Falls. (day or two)

 

"While we were in New York," we thought, "We'll just pop over to Cooperstown to see the Baseball Hall of Fame."...

 

(waiting for you to stop laughing)

We did make it, but we were setting the camper up in the dark.

 

Not only that, but we were unaware that it was Induction Weekend. We didn't understand why, when we made the reservation at the campground, that "since it's a Holiday Weekend, it's a mandatory three nights"..... Ho-kay, what holiday?

 

So parking, walking, eating in Cooperstown was VERY congested, LOL! We DID see Kirby Puckett playing golf!

[foreign fundie]

10 hours ago, SunnySideUp said:

People are talking about Jeremy being more "experienced" than Jinger like it's a good thing that will make the beginning of their marriage less awkward.

I have to very much disagree. If anything, it shifts the power balance even further toward the husband. This is a man who has likely had sex and kissed many women with a woman who has never front hugged a man before. She already has a warped sense of sex and purity, I have no doubt that she will deal with insecurities when she does not understand the things that might be asked of her by her husband. For goodness sake, she might not completely know how sex even works yet!!!

Tonight, I mentioned this to my husband-to-be. We have agreed to save sex for marriage in a very non-fundy, non-patriarchal, non-purity culture way. It's a very personal decision for us that most people who are close to us don't even know about.

Nice to hear we were not alone. Totally not into purity culture and never made a pledge or had a ring. It just seemed both sensible and right to us to wait. It wasn't hard to wait, and we had a bit more than side hugs to entertain ourselves with. But there is something very nice about starting that particular journey together on your wedding night.We never regretted it.

Mind you, we had talked and read plenty about it, we knew each other very well and fully trusted each other, we had had lots and lots of private time, and my daddy had nothing to do with this decision.

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

58 minutes ago, Foudeb said:

I know this is the next logical step for her and the only thing she can move on to in that fundie bubble, but I can't help but feel sorry for her. She'll have the big wedding and then the eleventy kids in quick succession and life of drudgery that goes with it and never will she ever be asked the question of what she wanted from life and what she wants to achieve, let alone being given the means to get there.

My only hope is that they discover contraception and use it. If only they had some time to grow accustomed to each other before going down a road that would lock them into the marriage and the lifestyle, I'd be a lot more confident this is something they both want and will be happy with.

Poor Jinger.

Since I think birth control or condoms will probably never happen with most of these fundies, I keep my fingers crossed that breastfeeding keeps their period away for at least a year or more so they can have kids at least 2 years apart instead of like jelly and Michelle who have many kids less than 18 months apart. Having kids 2+ years apart has to be more manageable and easier on your body compared to the rate of Kelly Bates. I have no idea how her body held up all those years.

[justmy2cents]

I'm not bothered by their age difference at all.  They're in the same generation.  As for the power imbalance, there would have been one anyway. In their life the man is the head of the household.  The woman is the helpmeet who can have an opinion and give ideas, but the man makes the final decision. If a wife must be led (according to them, not me) then I would rather see her being led by a mature man with some life experience rather than an inexperienced teenager.  I prefer that dynamic to Jessa/Ben.  As for Jeremy's experience with women, we really don't know how extensive it was.  He may not be all that knowledgeable.  Young guys usually have a lot to learn in bed and if he wasn't in a relationship but had some meaningless hookups he may not be that far ahead of Jinger in that department.  I don't see him as a predator with her.

[AreYouThereGothard?]

41 minutes ago, 19 cats and counting said:

Alyssa Bates is a good example.  She married insanely young (19) but also pursued college (dropped out) and worked for a florist.  She may come across as a superficial twit, but I think she was more mature at marriage than Jill or Jessa (23 and 21).  Also say what you want about her, but she seems to have really flourished by being far from the nest (moreso than her older sister who also lives out of state).  If Jinger in Texas does half the job of Alyssa in Florida keeping her family at arm's length, then I'll  be happy.

As far as height goes.  If these fundie girls are only drawn to taller men (I won't lie, I don't want anyone under 6 feet for myself), then their dating pool is much smaller.  Even the eligible bachelor Lawson Bates said on Twitter that he's 5'9.  I don't think any Duggar or Bates boy is over 6 feet (the girls seem pretty short too).  

Alyssa's scenario is what I'm hoping for as a best case scenario for Jinger. Yeah, her husband's dad is a pretty conservative politician, but it seems that for both families, Alyssa and John's personal choices as a family are respected. Alyssa hasn't been shunned for wearing sleeveless stuff/pants and her Pinterest indicates that she knows more about the world than the Duggars seem to (she loves her some Kate Middleton fashion. And let's be real, so do I). They seem more like a mainstream religious family.

For Jinger's more cosmopolitan leanings, I'm hoping that Jeremy would be willing to entertain those more and can get her off the compound. Even if her life isn't glamorous, getting to do her own thing would be a HUGE step up. Looking at Chad and Erin (Bates) Paine, Chad LOVES the fact that Erin is so talented and was super encouraging of her in college and as a piano teacher. Even if they are fundie lite (are they? Not sure what the fundie gradiant is), there is still a strong mutual appreciation for each other. 

Call me naive, but I'm hoping JinJer is a step in a more positive direction away from Duggarland     

[CoveredInBees]

37 minutes ago, Marissap said:

Is this the same as OWLs from HP???

One of my daughter's teachers is basically Professor McGonagall......... I have to be very careful when I speak to her as her name is so similar