JinJer 2: Courting, she did ride

[Snarkangel Gabriel]

I don't see the chronological age gap as a problem but I wonder if there is such a life experience gap that it will become a "child adult" relationship. In your 20s (sorry if that sounds patronising to those in that demographic!) there can be vast variation. I was still "growing up" at 22, not because of a religious lifestyle but because of quite a sheltered one (all girls boarding school, exposure to a fairly narrow range of people etc.) so I was still catching up with those who were the same age as me but who had much more life experience. I remember that my boyfriend at the time was actually younger than me by a few months but so much more streetwise and socially experienced. I ended it because I felt as though I had to look up to him as wiser than me and didn't think he treated me as an equal.

Then again - maybe Jinger doesn't expect an equal partnership and possibly doesn't even think she deserves one. 

I would love to be wrong. I hope she finds happiness - she deserves it.  Maybe a film maker brother in law will encourage her in her photography.

[amendgitan]

13 hours ago, Toothfairy said:

I read some guy like virgins because they can train them to their liking. Gross. 

Jeremy is another Derrick. Look where Derrick is now after drinking the duggaraid. 

I keep seeing posts about where Derick is at and how his life is as a slave to JB. But I'm not sure how that's a thing. 

Before he mated with Jill, he was a hippie missionary in Nepal for what, several years? Now, he's a hippie missionary in Central America with his wife and kid. 

Yeah, they come back a lot for the show, because it gives them quick and easy money. But he's living about as far away from the compound as is humanely possible. Totally out of the clutches of the controlling JB and his evil, simpering wife. 

So where is Derick now that he wasn't before, except married and a father? I mean he was uber religious then and into all this crap already. I don't think that's changed. 

[justmy2cents]

20 minutes ago, The limit does not exist said:

I assumed she was staring at him in that "adoring" way they are supposed to when the headship talks. I always found it creepy and weird but she's following the party line on that one.

 I think she was looking up like that because he's so tall and she was squinting because it was sunny.  And yes, she's perfecting that adoring gaze.

[MayMay1123]

1 hour ago, January1231 said:

Cape May is gorgeous.   It is so peaceful and quiet too compared to Wildwood/Ocean City.    I live about 75 minutes from there.

I have relatives near you in Atco... Ocean City will always have my heart, I spent every childhood summer in Somers Point at my grandma's house

 

[amendgitan]

12 hours ago, season of life said:

This thread moves fast! It's really a lucky thing that Jinger doesn't have a brother named Jeremy.

I am concerned about the power dynamic in that relationship. I know this place is named after her, but sometimes Jinger comes off as too sad. I think she's lost a little of her old spark. She couldn't hang out with Jessa as much, so she tried to bond with Jana, as said in Counting On. She was in Ben's video claiming to be a horrible sinner who needed Jesus. She's been tested by not one, but two family scandals. Jinger probably has little interest in secular things and only trusts people like her. I cannot stand Jeremy so far and I think this will be a standard marriage deal.

If anyone escapes, it'll be one of the younger kids or teens.

I don't know if there will be any problems with the power dynamic that aren't a risk for every single woman in these extremist Christian cultures. Frankly, Jessa and Jill and Erin and Michael lucked out with seemingly sweet guys who aren't macho and domineering. But the risk of having a guy like that is super high. 

But it's clear by that video that the spunk and snap and personality of Jinger has been finally squeezed out of her by the pressures of her culture. She does look sad in the video. Her face is tense and tragic to me in the still/thumbnail of the video. It's a face that betrays her ultimate understanding of her reality- her place. Her limits. Her inability to be or feel anything other than what they tell her to be or feel.  

[frugaldreams]

On 6/21/2016 at 7:44 AM, nst said:

no Jessa is the opposite of Jinger so she is strong willed, hot tempered and beauty centered (is that a word?)

I believe the word you are searching for is vain

[amendgitan]

13 hours ago, antwan said:

I think they look like a lovely couple and I truly wish them nothing but the very best. No matter what any of us thinks about their fundamentalist beliefs or views, they do (like each of us) have the right to live their lives according to their convictions. So Jeremy is a pastor. And a soccer player. Cool. I do think they will be more progressive than how Jinger was raised. And I think that suits her, too ("City, please!") Jeremy and Jinger, here's wishing you a long and happy life together.
p.s. and if they decide to roll with the "J" names, they're already on their way, lol.

The thing is, in their culture, their "convictions" are beaten into them with six inches of plumbing line and total isolation, censorship and authoritarian domination. 

The people raised this way, espeically the females, have zero agency. They aren't allowed to even have an independent identity. Let alone an authentic one. They are forced to repress any feeling or desire or thought that is not in line with the dictates of their cult/culture. 

I do, however, think it is possible for some to find a match they enjoy and to have happiness while remaining firmly entrenched in that life. 

But those appear to be the more average, totally gender conforming apples in the bunch. Essentially, the risk of living of a life of quiet misery and silent desperation is present for any one of the rest of them, who might be a different type of person- more intelligent, unique, eccentric, headstrong, independent, or non-gender or sexuality conforming. 

And Jinger, for whom this thread was named, showed some of the tentative signs that she had the traits of one who may not ever be entirely comfortable controlled and dominated by and submissive to the dictates of the culture. But here she is. 

So while I understand that there are people who have "sincerely held" fundamentalist beliefs, and I would never dare suggest the right to those beliefs be taken from them, I also view with suspicion and trepadation the unions that firmly seal these girls' fates. 

I hope her fate is one she not only can accept, but one that makes her happy. 

[xlurker]

7 hours ago, Ungodly Grandma said:

New York is a vast state, and rural in many areas, but much of the country think it's all NYC. 

Amen to that!  I am closer to Canada than I am to NYC....

[Jessie E]

I think they are probably already engaged and Jim Boob put off announcing the engagement to avoid another Marjorie Jackson incident.  I honestly don't think they could deal with having to announce another failed courtship.  Give it another few days and they will announce a wedding date.  Then they will go on again about how there is no need to have a long engagement cause they can't control their raging hormones for that long.  You just wait, People Magazine will be all over it soon enough.

[karen77]

6 minutes ago, Jessie E said:

I think they are probably already engaged and Jim Boob put off announcing the engagement to avoid another Marjorie Jackson incident.  I honestly don't think they could deal with having to announce another failed courtship.  Give it another few days and they will announce a wedding date.  Then they will go on again about how there is no need to have a long engagement cause they can't control their raging hormones for that long.  You just wait, People Magazine will be all over it soon enough.

This will come out soon, the week of the new season premiere!

[Kira]

1 hour ago, amendgitan said:

I keep seeing posts about where Derick is at and how his life is as a slave to JB. But I'm not sure how that's a thing. 

Before he mated with Jill, he was a hippie missionary in Nepal for what, several years? Now, he's a hippie missionary in Central America with his wife and kid. 

Yeah, they come back a lot for the show, because it gives them quick and easy money. But he's living about as far away from the compound as is humanely possible. Totally out of the clutches of the controlling JB and his evil, simpering wife. 

So where is Derick now that he wasn't before, except married and a father? I mean he was uber religious then and into all this crap already. I don't think that's changed. 

 I keep seeing post that say he had to quit his job at Walmart because of JB/The Duggars.They fear that Jeremy will quit his job. Derick worked at Walmart up until a year after his marriage to Jill. He quit or got fired in the summer of 2015(?)

I think Derick quit or got fired because A.)  Josh's scandals. He and Jill thought it was good time to get away  or B.) Walmart laid off a lot of workers around that time. 

People seem to be in denail about Derick an Jill living in Central America and that Josh and Anna lived in Wahington D.C. for a few years. I think Jeremy and Jinger will live in Texas. If Ben and Jessa want to move, I don't think JB would stop them.

 

ETA: I won't be mad if Derick and Jill move back to Arkansas. They're both from Arkansas.  

[SummerRocks]

Hold on ... did I read that Jeremy isn't a virgin?! 

Not shocking for a 28 year old man, but would love to hear how JimBob feels about Jeremy's peepee having had some action before becoming Jingers headship.

All the damage Michelle did in her bikini as a teenager in the backyard seems peanuts to this

[LadyCrow1313]

10 minutes ago, xlurker said:

Amen to that!  I am closer to Canada than I am to NYC....

I live near Albany, & whenever I mention I'm from NY (without also mentioning "state") I almost always get "Oh, NYC?"

:: rolls eyes ::

[Kira]

I waiting for TLC to release a trailer for the new season. I'm suprised they didn't annouce a premiere date when the courtship was announced.

[Jessie E]

Just now, SummerRocks said:

Hold on ... did I read that Jeremy isn't a virgin?! 

Not shocking for a 28 year old man, but would love to hear how JimBob feels about Jeremy's peepee having had some action before becoming Jingers headship.

All the damage Michelle did in her bikini as a teenager in the backyard seems peanuts to this

I am thinking the same thing.  In his "testimony" it sounded like he was with a few ladies before he had his big "come to Jesus" moment.

[January1231]

38 minutes ago, MayMay1123 said:

I have relatives near you in Atco... Ocean City will always have my heart, I spent every childhood summer in Somers Point at my grandma's house

 

Yep, Atco is super close to me.

[19 cats and counting]

Didn't Derick leave Walmart (voluntarily or involuntarily) around the same time that Joshgate 1.0 erupted? 

Maybe Walmart dropped him like a hot potato because of the negative PR it could bring.

[MarcyMM]

How awesome would it be if somebody leaked pics from his "wild" days. If they were, in fact, all that wild. Like maybe a shot of him hitting a bong or making out with a girl, etc.

Not that it would matter of course. He's been saved so it's all good now.

[lizzybee]

56 minutes ago, amendgitan said:

I keep seeing posts about where Derick is at and how his life is as a slave to JB. But I'm not sure how that's a thing. 

Before he mated with Jill, he was a hippie missionary in Nepal for what, several years? Now, he's a hippie missionary in Central America with his wife and kid. 

Yeah, they come back a lot for the show, because it gives them quick and easy money. But he's living about as far away from the compound as is humanely possible. Totally out of the clutches of the controlling JB and his evil, simpering wife. 

So where is Derick now that he wasn't before, except married and a father? I mean he was uber religious then and into all this crap already. I don't think that's changed. 

This. If anything, Derick tried to clean up and "Duggar-fy" himself with a full time job and a tucked in button down. I think his hippy missionary lifestyle is more his speed. Whether he left his job willingly or was laid off, I think he didn't have any problem going back to his wandering lifestyle, and was probably comfortable doing so. I think Jill was fine with it, too. This is what she always wanted to do. She loved going to CA as a teen and always over bonded to the point of tears with kids there. Whatever the opinion is of their mission work, I wouldn't say he's a failure or a slave to JimBob. If anything, Derick married Jill, toed the line, and used their connections with S.O.S. ministries to go back to doing his thing. If they were doing it for the show's storyline, TLC didn't go out of their way to film them much and they didn't go out of their way to be filmed much either. So personally I think Derick's just being Derick, only now he has a Jill and an Israel in tow. 

[sophie10130]

3 hours ago, Kaylo said:

Those tests aren't free for public school kids either. 

I'm the one who brought this up, so let me explain. I am an SAT/ACT tutor for a private small company. For some students they tests aren't free and their schools don't offer free prep programs. I agree.

BUT I went to a school where my first ACT was free and was given at the school AND we had a free prep program after school and another one on Saturday mornings. 

AND as an adult I taught a class that was free to Juniors that the school paid for, despite working for a private company. 

THEY DO EXIST. Also, even though they offered free prep classes, I do remember that my public school math class my junior year had a focus at the end of the year for "ACT math." It wasn't considered a prep class, it was in my regular Junior year math class where my teacher reviewed all the math we would see on the ACT.

As a private tutor, those classes are EXPENSIVE. And maybe his mom wanted to give him an advantage that wasn't going to cost upwards of $500-600 or more

Like I said in my first post, these were just all ideas I had in my head about reasons why he went to public school his junior and senior year. Maybe there was a combination of things, or maybe it was none of those things. 

8 minutes ago, MarcyMM said:

How awesome would it be if somebody leaked pics from his "wild" days. If they were, in fact, all that wild. Like maybe a shot of him hitting a bong or making out with a girl, etc.

Not that it would matter of course. He's been saved so it's all good now.

Didn't some people think that maybe he had some internet scrubbing done? I'd be interested to dig into that a bit more.

[ClaraOswin]

20 hours ago, season of life said:

I don't know how much Jinger will change after marriage because Jill didn't start wearing pants or consider other schooling options for Israel, and Derick and Dan attended public school. Plus Cathy wears pants. Ben's sisters also wear pants and one of them has a boyfriend, and that probably won't influence Jessa's ideas for her children's upbringing.

To be fair, we don't know what type of schooling Jill could consider for Israel in the future. He's not even 2 yet, is he?

20 hours ago, hollywood said:

The only way Jinger would even have ANY option at all to wear pants is if she moved away from the compound. It probably won't happen at all ever but if she moved away, things could change over time.

I would guess that Jinger may not have the want to wear pants at this point. People tend to be comfortable in what they are used to and she is used to skirts. I'd say if anyone would want to wear pants...it would be Joy. I guess we'll see what happens for her next year when JB finds her a husband.

20 hours ago, Kira said:

Thanks! One of the fan tumblrs was sure Jinger was skyping a guy, but others said it was Jill. Maybe it was Jill

The Duggar watch college and professional sports. They also attend games. Last week we discovered that the Duggars follow a "Parks and Recreation"( a sitcom) twitter account.

There's no way in hell any of the duggars watch Parks and Rec.

19 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

The difference here is that Josh was accused of a serious crime. Jeremy is not. He is being labeled as Gay when he may not be. And even if he is, that's something that is his to reveal if and when he chooses to do so. 

It seems a bit distasteful to me to immediately jump to a conclusion based off one single comment on People that was incredibly vague. He doesn't live with his parents and so doesn't fall into the no speculation camp, but it still kind of rubs me the wrong way.

Commenting on his homophobic beliefs? Go to town! Jackasses should be called out loudly and often for their disgusting views.

I have to admit, possible homosexuality pinged on my radar before seeing that rumor comment on People. I can't exactly place why though. Something in the comments he's made, I guess. Combined with him having seemingly little internet presence besides his ministry. Was it scrubbed and why?

[fundiefan]

1 hour ago, lascuba said:

My take on Jessa being the one to introduce Jinger and Jeremy:

I wouldn't say I was at all optimistic about the pairing, but if there's any good sign here, I think the fact that Jessa introduced them is it. Overall, based on what I've read and seen of Jeremy so far, I get a bad feeling about him--former pro-athlete with life experience eons beyond anyone in this family and he still wants to marry an emotional 12 year old? Can't be good. But there have been clues here and there that makes me believe that Jessa actually knows her sisters very well* and might have a good eye for who would suit them, so maybe--regardless of how stupid and asshole-ish this pair of fundies probably are--they actually make a good match.

*When the girls met Derrick via skype and were asked to describe Jill to him, Jessa was the only one who said something specific instead of vaguely nice like the other girls. When Anna asked Jana what kind of man she wanted and said something like, "so no dirt under the fingernails?" Jessa was the one to immediately say that dirt was what Jana wanted. And considering how close Jessa and Jinger are it stands to reason that she'd know Jinger even better. Yes, Jessa made a shortsighted and downright stupid decision for herself, but considering how many women I know who are extremely smart in every other area of life but make the most moronic romantic decisions for themselves, I'm not going to make assumptions on Jessa's matchmaking skills just based on that.

 

This is one of the biggest things that totally guts me about the whole courtship BS. The first person you have any interest in becomes your partner for life. For most people, regardless of Bin's immaturity and stupidity, if they found him hot, they'd hang out for a while, get a feel for him, see if they want him, maybe try him out. Then, no doubt, move on. It's healthy. It's responsible. It goes a long way towards knowing what makes a good match for you.

But, in fundie land, they found each other hot, despite everything, and the only way possible to act on that was marriage. So, as kids with no experience, in anything, they got married and popped out a baby because no doubt, all that non touching led to some pretty consistent mating as they tried things out and learned things. And, actually got to know each other. And, regardless of what they got to know about each other, too bad, so sad, you're tied for life.

I'm not saying free sex with everything that walks is the answer, or even sex with everyone you express interest in. But, at the same time, immediate marriage isn't the answer either.

I was, shall we say, quite experienced before I got married. So was my ex husband. We still didn't marry until almost 4 years after being together because we both knew damn well what we did and didn't want/need and it took that long to work it all out and mesh our lives and all that jazz. And hell, to know we wanted to be together 'for life'. We dated for 2 years, lived together for a year, got engaged and married a year after that. In all those steps we worked through new and different things and had good and bad things to deal with. (Of course, everyone's relationship is different, and how it went for me is not how it 'should' go for anyone else, but the point is...we had to experience each other to know we wanted marriage/life, and however that happens, it does happen for most non-fundies). We divorced 15 years later for reasons having nothing to do with the reasons we got together or the things we had to work out, but I guarantee you, had we not made our resolve before the marriage certificate was signed, we'd have been divorced in 6 months. Getting to know each other is hard. Adjusting to marriage is hard. Learning to be sexually responsive with each other can be hard. I cannot fathom being a completely inexperienced kid, because no matter the actual age, these are emotional and mental kids, going through relationship growing pains while already married. It's just absolutely insane to me.

I feel bad for all involved because they really have nothing to go on and aren't even taught to trust - or even listen to - their own instincts or feelings. They're thrown into the marriage bed and their religion tells them to make the babies. That. Is. All. They pay lip service to 'best friend', 'love', whatever, but the extreme fundies have no clue what any of those words mean or how they apply to actual human beings.

Sorry for the wall of text. This whole courting thing, and the Duggar thing, and the fundie thing...it all really just makes my head spin and makes me feel so deeply sad for all involved. Especially so for those who don't have enough sense to feel sad for themselves.

[amendgitan]

4 hours ago, quiverofdoubt said:

I could be wrong here, but from what i understand title 9 is supposed to protect kids rights to play in school sports- even the home schooled ones.  So his school may have found a loop hole or a way around it, but it may also not be legal. They just know most parents don't have the resources to fight it.  So it's possible jeremy went to public to play soccer without having to fight legal battles or jump through hoops. It's also possible that he just really wanted to go to school and it took till junior year to convince his parents.  Or he made ps friends and wanted to spend more time with them, so it meant going to school. Or he felt a ps transcript would make college acceptance easier, especially if he had his eye on specific schools for their soccer teams.  

Title 9 protects women's right to play sports. Not homeschoolers. 

[AuntK]

Is there really such a thing as a "meek" woman? (Even fundie)  I've never met one, thankfully.

[JMO]

I just had a terrible realization.  15 years from now I will be on FJ snarking about Josie's wedding, her future headship, and how ugly Jana is going to make the bridesmaids dresses by adding modesty panels.  And which of her 35 nieces are going to be flower girls. And will it be ice cream sandwiches in the parking lot or home made chicken salad in the church basement?  And will Sierra be making arrow cookies and root beer floats?