JinJer 2: Courting, she did ride

[Ralar]

7 hours ago, Kaylo said:

Soccer. The homeschool team isn't going to get him an MLS contract. 

Tim Tebow was homeschooled and played on a public school football team, played in a major NCAA football program, won the Heisman Trophy, was drafted into the NFL (and quickly bombed out).

 

[nausicaa]

18 hours ago, EmmieJ said:

Nausicaa - I so love your way with words. 

 Oooh, you know the way to my heart EmmieJ    Thank you!

[SummerRocks]

Jill&Jessa counting on will soon be Jill&Jessa&Jinger counting on, sigh! 

 

I'm not surprised it is through Jessa that Jinger met her future headship. It must have been very hard for Jinger when Jessa left the compound. She probably just longs to have what Jessa has, she will be playing house soon enough. 

 

Poor Jana though, she is probably never gonna leave the house and will be BFF's with Josie before we know it, as the other siblings will be married off soon enough. 

[BabyBottlePop]

I wonder if JB has lowered his standards somewhat, or Jeremy's positives outweigh the negatives because of their whole spiel about "giving away a piece of your heart".  When you consider Jeremy's non virginal status, I guess his fame helps. It looks like he uses that status for testimony so I guess I see why JB would make an exception.  

Jinger is so fragile I wonder if she would eventually feel jealousy about the other girls he was sexually active with-- if she would view him as giving away pieces of his heart to those girls.

[HarleyQuinn]

They could replace Tweedle Dumb with Jinger, it's not like Jill contributed to much.

[LadyCrow1313]

2 minutes ago, BabyBottlePop said:

I wonder if JB has lowered his standards somewhat, or Jeremy's positives outweigh the negatives because of their whole spiel about "giving away a piece of your heart".  When you consider Jeremy's non virginal status, I guess his fame helps. It looks like he uses that status for testimony so I guess I see why JB would make an exception.  

Jinger is so fragile I wonder if she would eventually feel jealousy about the other girls he was sexually active with-- if she would view him as giving away pieces of his heart to those girls.

So that's what they're calling it nowadays. Good to know.

[OrchidBlossom]

5 minutes ago, BabyBottlePop said:

I wonder if JB has lowered his standards somewhat, or Jeremy's positives outweigh the negatives because of their whole spiel about "giving away a piece of your heart".  When you consider Jeremy's non virginal status, I guess his fame helps. It looks like he uses that status for testimony so I guess I see why JB would make an exception.  

Jinger is so fragile I wonder if she would eventually feel jealousy about the other girls he was sexually active with-- if she would view him as giving away pieces of his heart to those girls.

This isn't IBLP specific so maybe they feel differently but I knew an IFB girl who dated an experienced guy who came to Jesus later, and she said that it was okay because it was before he found the lord and the lord repaired his heart and his mind and lifted the baggage from him when he was saved. Or something. Very anecdotal, no idea if it would apply to what the Duggars are thinking. But I guess some people think that way.

This friend never used the "pieces of her heart" rhetoric (to me, I don't know if it was something she engaged with at all, just I never heard it) but I do know she struggled with confusion and jealousy and felt she couldn't live up to his past experiences (which to be fair were VERY wild even in the secular world), but he actually did love her (and wasn't quite as fundie as she was, and she herself was probably more lite) and he was very patient with her jealousy. I hope the same for Jinger.

[Iokaste]

2 hours ago, hollywood said:

I'm surprised that she is marrying someone so much older than her.

 

It's only 6 years, hardly a may-december relationship and after so much premature responsibility raising a slew of siblings, it makes sense that she'd might want to be in a relationship, that lets her be the younger one and might offer her the chance to be taken care of for a bit, until they start multiplying at least.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

2 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I'm surprised that so many people think 6 years is a major age difference. I've always dated much older men so 6 years is nothing to me.

Me too, my husband is 9.5 years older than I am, I was 25 he was 34 when we met.  We've been married almost 20 years. 

[Kaylo]

1 hour ago, Ungodly Grandma said:

It probably varies by state. Several years ago my niece, who lives in Texas sent her son to public school b/c he wasn't allowed by the school to play football unless he was a student. I believe the explanation was scholastic eligibility. 

I believe you are right. I'm in CA, and am a teacher and coach. When a homeschool kid wants to play, they enroll. Usually, they Un-enroll when the season ends. 

Legally, they can probably play without enrolling, but they never do. Pin a rose on Tim Tebow's nose for doing it, but I'd be willing to bet he enrolled because of soccer. 

[Iokaste]

5 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

Me too, my husband is 9.5 years older than I am, I was 25 he was 34 when we met.  We've been married almost 20 years. 

Lol, me too. With 6 years being judged as "a lot", I'm not going to say an exact number, but by the time I started school my partner was doing his thesis ;-) 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

26 minutes ago, SummerRocks said:

Jill&Jessa counting on will soon be Jill&Jessa&Jinger counting on, sigh! 

 

I'm not surprised it is through Jessa that Jinger met her future headship. It must have been very hard for Jinger when Jessa left the compound. She probably just longs to have what Jessa has, she will be playing house soon enough. 

 

Poor Jana though, she is probably never gonna leave the house and will be BFF's with Josie before we know it, as the other siblings will be married off soon enough. 

I think Jessa sees Jinger as hers, and no one else. These two girls don't seem to be close to any of the other sisters (Jana, Jill & Joy) and I think Jessa likes and wants to keep it that way. Jinger always seemed to follow Jessa and do what ever Jessa said.  She's been lost since Jes & Bin go married. Jana & Joy seem to be just fine but they've been given a lot of responsibility and or leeway growing up.  Joy is fairly responsible for the younger boys at the moment and Jana is in charge of everything, and has been for a very long time. Until about 3 or 4 years ago Joy was running around the house with the boys, they tried to bring her into the house, but she wasn't having it and they were to busy having babies to bother with her.  I think the kids from Jinger to Jenny were kind of lost in the shuffle of babies, misbehaving Josh, TV shows and more babies. It will be interesting to see how life gets at the TTH when Jinger leaves, if it will even be noticed by anyone, she really did blend into the walls after a while.  

2 minutes ago, Iokaste said:

Lol, me too. With 6 years being judged as "a lot", I'm not going to say an exact number, but by the time I started school my partner was doing his thesis ;-) 

My mom said something about how much older he was than me and her mom said "Your father was 13 years older than I was".  She shut up after that.

[RoseWilder]

1 hour ago, quiverofdoubt said:

Homeschooled kids can take all the sat/gre tests they want. Most public schools don't offer prep courses, those are done through private companies that parents pay for.  

I don't think the previous poster was saying that homeschooled kids can't take those tests, but that his parents might have sent him to public school so he could take the tests for free. 

[Kaylo]

If only there was an oracle I could consult to find out about laws governing high school sports...oh yes, Google. It appears he could have played and still been homeschooled. However, he was a serious athlete. It wouldn't have been the same. I think Tim Tebow is simply an exception that proves the rule. Kids who play individual sports are homeschooled all the time to allow more training time. But team sports, rarely. I googled "homeschooled athletes" as well. There were only three who play a team sport. One basketball, two football.

13 minutes ago, RoseWilder said:

I don't think the previous poster was saying that homeschooled kids can't take those tests, but that his parents might have sent him to public school so he could take the tests for free. 

Those tests aren't free for public school kids either. 

[quiverofdoubt]

10 minutes ago, RoseWilder said:

I don't think the previous poster was saying that homeschooled kids can't take those tests, but that his parents might have sent him to public school so he could take the tests for free. 

It's been a long time since i took those tests (thank goodness).  But i remember paying quite a bit, at least for our broke family, and I was in public school. 

[VelociRapture]

2 hours ago, AreYouThereGothard? said:

Alyssa's scenario is what I'm hoping for as a best case scenario for Jinger. Yeah, her husband's dad is a pretty conservative politician, but it seems that for both families, Alyssa and John's personal choices as a family are respected. Alyssa hasn't been shunned for wearing sleeveless stuff/pants and her Pinterest indicates that she knows more about the world than the Duggars seem to (she loves her some Kate Middleton fashion. And let's be real, so do I). They seem more like a mainstream religious family.

For Jinger's more cosmopolitan leanings, I'm hoping that Jeremy would be willing to entertain those more and can get her off the compound. Even if her life isn't glamorous, getting to do her own thing would be a HUGE step up. Looking at Chad and Erin (Bates) Paine, Chad LOVES the fact that Erin is so talented and was super encouraging of her in college and as a piano teacher. Even if they are fundie lite (are they? Not sure what the fundie gradiant is), there is still a strong mutual appreciation for each other. 

Call me naive, but I'm hoping JinJer is a step in a more positive direction away from Duggarland     

I think everyone has a different idea of what Fundie Light means and those differences can lead to a lot of disagreement. There was a good discussion about that recently on the Bates forum actually.  A different term would likely be much more helpful, but I don't think we ever figured out a replacement.

I tend to look at what beliefs these families support over how they look or dress. If someone is extremely vocal in their opposition for abortion or birth control or marriage equality or female equality, etc. then it's clear to me that person is Fundie. If someone is opposed, but at least capable of seeing other points of view, that would be more Fundie Lite to me. The difference is in how rigid a view the person holds. The more rigid, the more Fundie that person is.

Erin and Chad are an attractive couple who have my sympathy due to the struggles they've gone through in starting their family. However, I haven't seen any indication that they aren't as rigid in their beliefs as their parents (and remember, both their fathers sit on the IBLP Board of Directors). They recently participated in a speaking appearance where they spoke on Female Empowerment - from what I've seen, they basically told young girls to be content with your lot in life because God. Not really that empowering.

Alyssa and John have led to a lot of intense debates recently. Some people are convinced they must be Fundie Lite. I'm pretty sure they aren't. His father is a politician who has run on extremely conservative platforms - to the point where he's known as Taliban Dan. Alyssa and John have both supported his campaigns in the past. You could argue they only did it because he's family... But I tend to hold people accountable for the things they do and say. Supporting a candidate like Taliban Dan, regardless of whether he's family, says a great deal to me about that person's beliefs. Not to mention that they agreed to let themselves and Allie Jane be featured on a show promoting their parents' beliefs and they allowed their family to be used for marketing IBLP conventions.

 @formergotharditehas done an excellent job explaining this, but the modesty rules the Duggars follow aren't the absolute law of the land for all IBLP families. Some follow the strict rules of no pants and long hair for women - others (such as the Websters and Salyers) don't follow those strict rules. It doesn't mean they aren't just as hardcore as the Duggars or Bates - it just means the men let the women wear pants.

I know it can be pretty confusing. Try not to read too much into wardrobe choices though - it likely doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things. And try to remember that the Bates family and UP TV have had years to watch and learn from the Duggars and TLC's mistakes. Their show portrays them as being extremely normal whereas TLC's whole idea was, "Look at the freaks!"

[FlamingFundie]

Le sigh.

Im not sure what to make of this dude. Everyone here makes good points (assumptions) in all directions. We knew this was coming thanks to her obvious comment/reaction on the show's preview thingy. I wonder if the pickings are getting slim thanks to Joshgate 1.0 and 2.0 and the general public's tanking attitude towards the Duggars, hence why JB might have even considered this worldly, marred man. I think that opened the door, and then Jeremy's repentance and desire to "cure" others of their "inflictions" (aka, sin of any kind) because he has "been there, done that" and can tell them it's better to "follow Jeebus" was his final nail in convincing JB that he was worthy to enter the Donkey Show.

Also, I agree that despite their courtship rules they have claimed that each couple can choose their own. I realize that they are HEAVILY influenced by what M&JB consider proper, but if this guy is so strong in his personality and convictions then I forsee JB maybe backing off a little bit and really letting them do their thing. I could see JinJer (kudos to the creator of that name!) allowing frontal hugs after engagement, for example.

[January1231]

18 hours ago, MayMay1123 said:

That is def his sister's Facebook page, she posted a pic of her and her brothers for sibling day, and is apparently a violin teacher who is here in Philadelphia a lot. It appears that right now she is in Cape May, NJ with her pants wearing mother, and I'm jealous because that is one beautiful town! Looks like the brother is a film maker?  Just from stalking sister's page, she doesn't seem to be very fundy at all...

Cape May is gorgeous.   It is so peaceful and quiet too compared to Wildwood/Ocean City.    I live about 75 minutes from there.

[OrchidBlossom]

12 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

I think everyone has a different idea of what Fundie Light means and those differences can lead to a lot of disagreement. There was a good discussion about that recently on the Bates forum actually.  A different term would likely be much more helpful, but I don't think we ever figured out a replacement.

I tend to look at what beliefs these families support over how they look or dress. If someone is extremely vocal in their opposition for abortion or birth control or marriage equality or female equality, etc. then it's clear to me that person is Fundie. If someone is opposed, but at least capable of seeing other points of view, that would be more Fundie Lite to me. The difference is in how rigid a view the person holds. The more rigid, the more Fundie that person is.

Erin and Chad are an attractive couple who have my sympathy due to the struggles they've gone through in starting their family. However, I haven't seen any indication that they aren't as rigid in their beliefs as their parents (and remember, both their fathers sit on the IBLP Board of Directors). They recently participated in a speaking appearance where they spoke on Female Empowerment - from what I've seen, they basically told young girls to be content with your lot in life because God. Not really that empowering.

Alyssa and John have led to a lot of intense debates recently. Some people are convinced they must be Fundie Lite. I'm pretty sure they aren't. His father is a politician who has run on extremely conservative platforms - to the point where he's known as Taliban Dan. Alyssa and John have both supported his campaigns in the past. You could argue they only did it because he's family... But I tend to hold people accountable for the things they do and say. Supporting a candidate like Taliban Dan, regardless of whether he's family, says a great deal to me about that person's beliefs. Not to mention that they agreed to let themselves and Allie Jane be featured on a show promoting their parents' beliefs and they allowed their family to be used for marketing IBLP conventions.

 @formergotharditehas done an excellent job explaining this, but the modesty rules the Duggars follow aren't the absolute law of the land for all IBLP families. Some follow the strict rules of no pants and long hair for women - others (such as the Websters and Salyers) don't follow those strict rules. It doesn't mean they aren't just as hardcore as the Duggars or Bates - it just means the men let the women wear pants.

I know it can be pretty confusing. Try not to read too much into wardrobe choices though - it likely doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things. And try to remember that the Bates family and UP TV have had years to watch and learn from the Duggars and TLC's mistakes. Their show portrays them as being extremely normal whereas TLC's whole idea was, "Look at the freaks!"

Another thing I consider in determining whether someone is fundie, fundie lite, or mainstream is their views on scripture. If they are very literalist and legalistic, I tend to view them as more fundie. If they believe there is a littleeee room, but not much, for debate or interpretation, but they still keep pretty strict, or if they are accepting of differing views without a lot "you're going to hell!" rhetoric, then that to me is more fundie lite. If they are generally open and accepting of theological divergence and don't have the same legalistic and narrow biblical views, I see that as mainstream. All the things that @VelociRapture said about the way they relate to their political and social views are also a factor for me. Dress pretty much isn't at all (I mean sure maybe if Erin Bates starts posting bikini pics I'll consider that, but by and large pants v. skirts or to the neck v to the collarbone hemlines mean nothing). Based on my personal calculus on those factors, I see all the Bates and Duggar kids sticking pretty close to fundie, not so much lite. A few of them I think could have potential to grow toward lite, but at the moment I haven't seen much of that.

[CreationMuseumSeasonPass]

I bet Jessa is going to gloat about making a match with JinJer in the next season, but I still 99 percent believe, at least a few years down the road, she will be super jealous of the success JinJer has. Jeremy is everything Bin wishes he could be. Athletic, more mature, established in seminary and good-looking. Holy Jeebus, even Bravo's Andy Cohen said how hot Jeremy was on live TV. Jinger could become the fundie princess turned pastor's wife with the conservative couture clothing. This by no means makes me a JinJer fan, just a person who enjoys spinning webs

[Mela99]

Jeremy - the lovechild of Hugh Jackman and Jared the Subway dude. Thank you, D-listed... 

[lascuba]

My take on Jessa being the one to introduce Jinger and Jeremy:

I wouldn't say I was at all optimistic about the pairing, but if there's any good sign here, I think the fact that Jessa introduced them is it. Overall, based on what I've read and seen of Jeremy so far, I get a bad feeling about him--former pro-athlete with life experience eons beyond anyone in this family and he still wants to marry an emotional 12 year old? Can't be good. But there have been clues here and there that makes me believe that Jessa actually knows her sisters very well* and might have a good eye for who would suit them, so maybe--regardless of how stupid and asshole-ish this pair of fundies probably are--they actually make a good match.

*When the girls met Derrick via skype and were asked to describe Jill to him, Jessa was the only one who said something specific instead of vaguely nice like the other girls. When Anna asked Jana what kind of man she wanted and said something like, "so no dirt under the fingernails?" Jessa was the one to immediately say that dirt was what Jana wanted. And considering how close Jessa and Jinger are it stands to reason that she'd know Jinger even better. Yes, Jessa made a shortsighted and downright stupid decision for herself, but considering how many women I know who are extremely smart in every other area of life but make the most moronic romantic decisions for themselves, I'm not going to make assumptions on Jessa's matchmaking skills just based on that.

 

[19 cats and counting]

45 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

Alyssa and John have led to a lot of intense debates recently. Some people are convinced they must be Fundie Lite. I'm pretty sure they aren't. His father is a politician who has run on extremely conservative platforms - to the point where he's known as Taliban Dan. Alyssa and John have both supported his campaigns in the past. You could argue they only did it because he's family... But I tend to hold people accountable for the things they do and say. Supporting a candidate like Taliban Dan, regardless of whether he's family, says a great deal to me about that person's beliefs. Not to mention that they agreed to let themselves and Allie Jane be featured on a show promoting their parents' beliefs and they allowed their family to be used for marketing IBLP conventions.

 

I see some small steps that Alyssa has taken that has nothing to do with her beliefs.  Apparently in the IBLP/ATI culture, you are raised to believe that your siblings are your best friends.  In a family the Bates (or Duggar) size, sure not all siblings are going to be best friends, but there's usually a few with a very close bond (Jessa/Jinger, Lawson/Nathan, etc).  With Alyssa, I thought it was very telling that she did not choose a sister as her MOH in her wedding (she chose John's sister, who is a bestie to her).  (To be fair, I thought Michael choosing Kelly was a very unorthodox choice too).

Even in non fundie culture, most brides and grooms will choose a same sex sibling (if they have any) over a friend as their MOH/best man.  I was my sister's MOH even though we were oil and water for most of our lives (I asked if I was the appropriate choice and suggested she choose her best friend instead).  Every other fundie bride I've known of chose a sister as her MOH (Anna and Priscilla chose each other, Jill chose Jana, Jessa chose Jinger, Josh chose JD, Erin chose Tori).  

 

[The limit does not exist]

4 hours ago, Imaginary_Wonderland said:

But watching that video of Jinger introducing him and announcing courtship, her body language interacting with him was awkward and she sounded so nervous and unsure when speaking, and the way she was looking up at him seems as if she was looking for his approval or checking she said it right enough for him. ( I am also a shortie at 5'0 so I do have to look up to everybody too, and I know he is tall, so maybe I am reading too much into it). I don't think he looked at her at 

Perhaps she is just shy, or perfectly meek to his standards, and it is coming off as awkward and uncomfortable. 

I assumed she was staring at him in that "adoring" way they are supposed to when the headship talks. I always found it creepy and weird but she's following the party line on that one.

[Audrey2]

9 minutes ago, The limit does not exist said:

I assumed she was staring at him in that "adoring" way they are supposed to when the headship talks. I always found it creepy and weird but she's following the party line on that one.

I just  hope we aren't looking at another David and Priscilla Waller situation, although with different issues. Their videos are even more terrifying than  obnoxious to me.