JinJer 2: Courting, she did ride

[19 cats and counting]

6 minutes ago, trisprefect said:

Just realized that it might be good for Jinger to be marrying into an artistic family -- his mother teaches violin, his sister plays violin in a band, and his brother works in the film industry in MA. At the very least, they will likely encourage her photography, as it's a pretty safe fundie-approved career/hobby for a woman.

All of the Duggarlings are taught violin (WTF Fundie Families has the hashtag 'violins of DOOM') and Anna is continuing the tradition as Mack made an appearance with the Lost Girls on violin.

I hope they encourage her photography.  If he's pastor of a church, let her do the family photos for the church directory.

[Kira]

4 minutes ago, AnnaRuk09 said:

Concerning #4, I think it was said in a fan website that Jinger was skyping with Jill. And yes, there was a lot of confusion and talk on how they were acting and about where they were going next. I remember reading about fans who had met the girls say that they looked real shy, uncomfortable and standoffish. With Alabama, someone said that they had to go meet someone. However, people were saying that it was just a madeup rumor since they were still in Tennessee the next day as they can be seen in pictures at the Bates' church. Other people said that the girls or the whole family were going to Alabama but for an engagement and I think thats where the rumors stopped.

Thanks! One of the fan tumblrs was sure Jinger was skyping a guy, but others said it was Jill. Maybe it was Jill

7 minutes ago, McDoodleDoodleDoo said:

Probably the only lifestyle change for Jinger is going to see soccer games and  watching whatever super hero movies Jermey likes. Hopefully though she will have cable so Jer can ensure he will still have his ESPN. It would be mighty hard to not be tempted to check out sitcoms or other reality shows during those first few months of marriage before the baby comes. If they live anywhere near the TTH they will likely try to keep a duggarling in her house to keep her busy and for spying purposes. 

The Duggar watch college and professional sports. They also attend games. Last week we discovered that the Duggars follow a "Parks and Recreation"( a sitcom) twitter account.

[VelociRapture]

24 minutes ago, trisprefect said:

Let me guess -- Derby/Ansonia area?

Nope! Lol! We're in the greater New Haven area - we moved here three years ago this summer. We love this area because of the taxes, proximity to our hometown, lack of snobs, and how close we are to a bunch of parks and farms. But we had zero idea how racist a small percentage people here were before we moved. It's definitely been eye opening and disheartening to say the least.

[trisprefect]

6 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

Nope! Lol! We're in the greater New Haven area - we moved here three years ago this summer. We love this area because of the taxes, proximity to our hometown, lack of snobs, and how close we are to a bunch of parks and farms. But we had zero idea how racist a small percentage people here were before we moved. It's definitely been eye opening and disheartening to say the least.

Aw man I was close! I lived in North Haven until a year and a half ago, that's where my boyfriend grew up. Took me a while to get used to the stereotypical "Connecticut" people that I encountered every so often, but was definitely sad when we moved away. I was shocked too about the racism, I know Wallingford was a huge site for KKK rallies and East Haven has a pretty nasty reputation for being crazy racist.

[Grimalkin]

1 hour ago, Kaylo said:

I believe I read he finished his BA at Hartwick and transferred to Syracuse to work on a masters in Econ. Sports-eligibility wise he was playing as a senior at Syracuse. He probably redshirted as a freshman. 

This is why I don't buy the gay bs. It sounds like someone said earlier - when someone doesn't like someone the first thing they do is call them gay. Lame. And frankly it pisses me off. Stop using gay as an insult. There is no evidence whatsoever that he is gay, just people thinking their "gaydar" qualifies as such. 

        I am glad you posted this. I have been thinking of a good way to post this sentiment. Some anonymous commenter posts speculation that he is gay and we jump on it like its gospel. We are smarter than that, and I think we can come up with better snark than 'he must be gay!' Which has been said about most every fundie man we talk about.

[VelociRapture]

2 minutes ago, trisprefect said:

Aw man I was close! I lived in North Haven until a year and a half ago, that's where my boyfriend grew up. Took me a while to get used to the stereotypical "Connecticut" people that I encountered every so often, but was definitely sad when we moved away. I was shocked too about the racism, I know Wallingford was a huge site for KKK rallies and East Haven has a pretty nasty reputation for being crazy racist.

Last rally here was in 2000 thankfully. One of my husband's former coworkers remembers seeing them marching down the street that time. He was just a little kid and didn't really understand until later.

Latest right now is an asshat who painted a swastika on his back fence to piss off the developer building three houses behind his (because he claims the developer didn't follow through on some sort of agreement they had - which he never actually goes into detail about.)

Best part? Asshat and asshat's wife sold the land to the developer and now they're pissy because dirt is constantly blowing everywhere and getting into their house. It's totes cool though because he's of German descent and, somehow, that makes it ok. 

The police can't do anything because it's technically not a hate crime - no threats have been made against anyone, so it would violate his right to free speech if they arrested him. I still really hate people sometimes.

[sophie10130]

I'm censoring myself! Too inappropriate.

[anjulibai]

8 minutes ago, Grimalkin said:

        I am glad you posted this. I have been thinking of a good way to post this sentiment. Some anonymous commenter posts speculation that he is gay and we jump on it like its gospel. We are smarter than that, and I think we can come up with better snark than 'he must be gay!' Which has been said about most every fundie man we talk about.

To be fair, an anonymous poster many years ago said Josh molested his sisters. This anonymous poster was almost roundly dismissed. 

And then we find out that it was all true, down to a lot of very particular details that anonymous poster shared. 

So, It's hard not to dismiss these types of posts now. 

That said, whatever the truth is, Jinger is likely in for a lot of disappointment in this marriage, because that really is all that seems to come in Duggar relationships. 

[GoneDownTheRabbitHole]

Jeremy's website says:

I had been homeschooled most of my life but began attending public school in my junior and senior year and it was during my senior year that a lot of sin in my heart began to be exposed.

 

Looks like they will probably still stick with homeschooling. Too many sins in the ebil public schools. I wonder if he was ATI or anything

[anjulibai]

3 minutes ago, sophie10130 said:

Also this is a strange idea and maybe inappropriate, but would it be SO horrible if a fundie husband was (secretly) gay? We all know fundie husbands and wives probably don't fall in love like normal couples. What's the worst that could happen? They have mediocre sex infrequently and no real physical connection? I'm not trying to snark on other people's sex lives, but that doesn't sound SO bad when you think about how many Michael Pearls might be out there.

I was pretty sex adverse for a little while and I'd rather have a secretly gay fundie husband than a Michael Pearl ANY day of the week. I would never wish either on anyone, but everyone acts like a closeted gay man in fundie culture could be the absolute worst thing to happen to a girl.

As the daughter of a gay man that tried to live a heterosexual life with a wife and child, yes, it is bad. 

Repressing a huge part of your identity affects a person in negatively in many ways, and it's often taken out on those around that person. 

Trust me, the sex aspect is only part of the issue, and even that alone can cause major problems. 

If Jeremy is closeted, then Jinger and any children they have are not likely to have an easy time. 

[amendgitan]

4 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

I totally agree that there are some red flags here, but I don't see the "cookie cutter" testimony or "cookie cutter" courtship language as necessarily a sign that he is insincere.  I know a lot of fundie-lite people, a lot of born-again Baptists and self-righteous Church of Christ folks.  Many of them, especially the young people, talk like that, especially when they think you may judge them.  Sometimes it is hypocrisy, but other times it is the only language that they feel safe using to talk about what the rest of us describe in different terms.

"She has a passion for Christ and a servant's heart" may just mean, "She not only looked hot and came from a famous family but she was not snooty." "We had long conversations about glorifying the Lord" may mean that she was a good listener and supportive of his dreams. "I got to see his/her heart was for Jesus" could mean s/he shared your religious views, etc.

Within (beneath?) the cliches there may be real feeling.  I am not saying there always is, but that we shouldn't assume that there isn't.   Romantic attraction in our world has to be expressed in a way that focuses on the individual.  But in their world, too much attention to the individual outside his/her role in a patriarchal Christ-praising hierarchy is suspect.  He cannot say, "Wow, this girl is not stupid in spite of her education, and she is a lot sweeter than her sister, and I like the way she looks up to me and thinking of getting my hands on her body and kissing her makes me horny."  He cannot say that she will be "fun" to marry or that he thinks she may have a mischievous, eye-rolling private side to her that he'd like to spend his life with.   Whatever he really thinks, whatever really attracts him, he has to say the conventional, Christian things, not what we would consider an expression of real feeling.

Do I think there is a great love story here?  I don't know what to think.  He is a fundie pastor and everything each of them says is overlaid with a kind of religiosity that I find suspect. But I am not discounting that this could be a genuine relationship.  Like Jill and Derick, they could end up being well-matched.  And there is just a possibility that he will help her feel less "unworthy" and "sinful."  

As for his consulting Ben and Jessa, that made perfect sense to me.  He wasn't asking Ben's counsel as a "man of God."  He was asking for counsel from the man who had successfully married the sister of the girl he had his eye on.   He was, indirectly, letting the family (and Jinger) know his interest.

My son is almost four years younger than his sister, but because he was involved in fairly advanced computer geek stuff in his early teens, he had a number of friends who were in their early twenties when the kid was barely in his teens.  More than once, after they met her, they would ask him for "advice" about his sister and how to approach her (and, when she was under 18, us).  I always assumed that a 21-year-old was "asking relationship advice" of a 13 or 14-year-old because the 13- or 14- year-old had an "in" with the object of his interest.

So I don't think there is anything odd about Jeremy asking "advice" about Jinger.

The real question, of course is whether he is attracted for the right reasons (she is a person he understands and likes as well as lusts after) and whether she is attracted to him for the right reasons.  I don't think we can know that.  This family is very good at displaying what they want you to see and no more.

Let's hope that he is, at least, Mr. Right Now for Jinger and that he will take her enough away from the Duggars that if he pulls a Joshley Madison on her, she will make use of her biblical right to divorce.  Let's hope that if there isn't the best kind of love between them, what they have will grow and she will have found a partner for life.

But even if it doesn't work out, there is more hope for Jinger than for Jana right now.  No matter how bad the marriage may turn out to be, those girls need to get away from being dependent daughters.

Really intelligent post. You seem to see the complexities of these people, the situation and the culture.  And I love how you provide a possible translation their fundie speech!  

So enjoyable. 

[Gobsmacked]

31 minutes ago, season of life said:

We are evil for making Buzzard sit through another episode when it comes.

Thankyou Buzzard in advance. Over here in cold/ sunny/ rainy Scotland we are just catching up with the last series. I have tried really REALLY hard to sit through a whole episode but I'm a wimp! Just can't do it.

So thank you once again, in advance Buzzard..

[sophie10130]

1 minute ago, anjulibai said:

As the daughter of a gay man that tried to live a heterosexual life with a wife and child, yes, it is bad. 

Repressing a huge part of your identity affects a person in negatively in many ways, and it's often taken out on those around that person. 

Trust me, the sex aspect is only part of the issue, and even that alone can cause major problems. 

If Jeremy is closeted, then Jinger and any children they have are not likely to have an easy time. 

Sorry, I didn't mean to make assumptions about the life of the children and stuff. You're right. It would be awful and I would never wish such heartache on anyone, especially the closeted man who thinks he has to live in such a way that disregards such a huge part of himself to be accepted by his peers and loved ones.

[socalrules]

What I find sad is that these fundy men never say they are looking for a smart or strong woman. You never hear them bragging about their smart or clever daughter. She is always meek, humble and has a servant's heart. 

What really bothers me is that we talk about how he had been out of the world and had experiences, which will be good for Jinger. Yet, Jinger hasn't had any experiences as an adult or even a teenager. She gets to live the same life she did at home, except she can have Godly sex. Great sex will stop being great when you realize you are stuck living someone else's dream.  This guy, whose name I have already forgotten, went to high school and college, maybe went a little crazy, yet still ended up back in the church. He is better for it, whether he realizes it or not. I hate the fact that Jinger was not allowed the same experience. Jinger has no story from her life that does not involve her parents or a sibling. She is what her parents wanted and now she will be what her husband wants. Her needs and wants are irrelevant. 

[VelociRapture]

5 minutes ago, anjulibai said:

To be fair, an anonymous poster many years ago said Josh molested his sisters. This anonymous poster was almost roundly dismissed. 

And then we find out that it was all true, down to a lot of very particular details that anonymous poster shared. 

So, It's hard not to dismiss these types of posts now. 

That said, whatever the truth is, Jinger is likely in for a lot of disappointment in this marriage, because that really is all that seems to come in Duggar relationships. 

The difference here is that Josh was accused of a serious crime. Jeremy is not. He is being labeled as Gay when he may not be. And even if he is, that's something that is his to reveal if and when he chooses to do so. 

It seems a bit distasteful to me to immediately jump to a conclusion based off one single comment on People that was incredibly vague. He doesn't live with his parents and so doesn't fall into the no speculation camp, but it still kind of rubs me the wrong way.

Commenting on his homophobic beliefs? Go to town! Jackasses should be called out loudly and often for their disgusting views.

[amendgitan]

3 minutes ago, anjulibai said:

As the daughter of a gay man that tried to live a heterosexual life with a wife and child, yes, it is bad. 

Repressing a huge part of your identity affects a person in negatively in many ways, and it's often taken out on those around that person. 

Trust me, the sex aspect is only part of the issue, and even that alone can cause major problems. 

If Jeremy is closeted, then Jinger and any children they have are not likely to have an easy time. 

You're right but I can see why, given some of the quiet horrors of extremist fundamentalism, that one would think being someone's beard is one of the milder things that can go wrong in the culture, to a woman. Especially one who was sexually molested and may have issues with having sex. 

Also, I've heard a few accounts about how some gay guys back in the day when that thing was more typical, made great husbands to their straight wives (the sex aside), providing a lot of physical affection and emotional support, to their wives who were satisfied. 

But of course unless everyone has a way to get their meds met, such a situation is quite tragic. And living in secrecy is never good. 

Also I don't know if it's been mentioned here but there are  many men who have sex with other men and also like women. Obviously there are safety issues with any spouse who leads a secret sex life with other people but being bi doesn't mean he would have to do that.  Bi people commit too. 

[MoonFace]

Holy Tater Tot!   I get busy and all FJ explodes with all this courting stuff!

Well, the guy is HOT.    

The fact that he a born again virgin with EXPERIENCE is great.    He can tell Jinger and JB and company that he and Jinger will not go to hell for full frontal hugs and even a grope or two.   

We might be treated to a little bit of a french kiss at the wedding!  (He's bound to know how to do that!) 

No one will have to explain to him that tab A goes in to Slot A (Or Slot B or Slot C!  hehehehe)   on the wedding night. 

If he is gay, well, then he won't need be turned on by her wearing a sleeveless nightie and fathering a whole soccer team on his own.   

Looks like he has a real church - I see he was ordained in March 2016 (In time to start getting in good with JimBoob)  But I don't see any seminary training.   Doesn't look like you need it in Texas

http://www.wikihow.com/Become-a-Minister-in-Texas

 

[OrchidBlossom]

2 minutes ago, sophie10130 said:

Sorry, I didn't mean to make assumptions about the life of the children and stuff. You're right. It would be awful and I would never wish such heartache on anyone, especially the closeted man who thinks he has to live in such a way that disregards such a huge part of himself to be accepted by his peers and loved ones.

I don't want to pile on you after you have recognized the implications of the issue, so I hope this doesn't come off as such, just want to add another perspective. I  think you're right, it is certainly not the WORST thing that could happen to a fundie, or to anyone, I really think it would be a very sad existence for both of them, but especially Jinger, to be forced into a sort of "sham" marriage that may never (assuming he is gay and not bi or pansexual or some other identity) allow for the possibility of true romantic love and connection for Jinger. Fondness, appreciation, and companionship are all great things, but if Jinger wants a romantic relationship with a man, I would hope she would be with someone who at least had the potential to truly feel that for her and provide her with that. It would be very selfish of him, knowing her beliefs and her stance against divorce, to use her in that way if he knows that he doesn't have a romantic or sexual drive for women. That would make me sad for her, her most likely noxious beliefs aside.

[amendgitan]

14 minutes ago, GoneDownTheRabbitHole said:

Jeremy's website says:

I had been homeschooled most of my life but began attending public school in my junior and senior year and it was during my senior year that a lot of sin in my heart began to be exposed.

 

Looks like they will probably still stick with homeschooling. Too many sins in the ebil public schools. I wonder if he was ATI or anything

It's so sad how these people have to repress their normal, human emotions and become self-loathing and panicked if they indulge in typical adolescent and young adult behaviors.  

[anjulibai]

8 minutes ago, sophie10130 said:

Sorry, I didn't mean to make assumptions about the life of the children and stuff. You're right. It would be awful and I would never wish such heartache on anyone, especially the closeted man who thinks he has to live in such a way that disregards such a huge part of himself to be accepted by his peers and loved ones.

It's okay. I just wanted to clarify that having a closted gay husband is not likely to make things easy on Jinger, or any children they may have. 

I really hope that he is not gay, and that he's understanding of any issues she may have sexually as a result of her molestation. 

[Grimalkin]

18 minutes ago, anjulibai said:

To be fair, an anonymous poster many years ago said Josh molested his sisters. This anonymous poster was almost roundly dismissed. 

And then we find out that it was all true, down to a lot of very particular details that anonymous poster shared. 

So, It's hard not to dismiss these types of posts now. 

That said, whatever the truth is, Jinger is likely in for a lot of disappointment in this marriage, because that really is all that seems to come in Duggar relationships. 

  Unless you are going to report it to authorities or are in a posisition to help the victim I think dismissing random anonymous acusations that like that are the right thing to do. Molestation is a seriouse crime. Falsely accusing someone can destroy thier life.

 

[season of life]

I wonder if their wedding will be near Nathan's...

[Buzzard]

1 hour ago, nst said:

so we are learning that we get an All about Jinger episode - Buzzard will have a field day 

can you imagine that episode - endless blank stares, Jessa going on and on about Jinger and her photography and that she can sell cars and is organized 

i am in the camp they are engaged and it will be announced in August in time for the new season in September and the wedding will be in December -which will be shown in March in time for Jill to give birth 

 

Fuck you for cursing me! I feel like those episodes are obituaries or a montage more appropriate after someone dies.  I guess it is a bit of a death; the death of a promising future.

I can see it now, JinJer will open up a coffee shop in Laredo, attached to the church.  It will support the fake orphan ministry that DerJill run in CA with coffee grown and harvested by orphans.  Watered with their tears...  DJ Binjermin will do the commercials horrifically:

Quote

 

Do you love Jesus and want some Coffee?

Come visit the shop and have some mad tea!

We support brown orphans and brink catholics to christ

Thats it, my man, we're doing it right!

 

 

[sophie10130]

14 minutes ago, OrchidBlossom said:

I don't want to pile on you after you have recognized the implications of the issue, so I hope this doesn't come off as such, just want to add another perspective. I  think you're right, it is certainly not the WORST thing that could happen to a fundie, or to anyone, I really think it would be a very sad existence for both of them, but especially Jinger, to be forced into a sort of "sham" marriage that may never (assuming he is gay and not bi or pansexual or some other identity) allow for the possibility of true romantic love and connection for Jinger. Fondness, appreciation, and companionship are all great things, but if Jinger wants a romantic relationship with a man, I would hope she would be with someone who at least had the potential to truly feel that for her and provide her with that. It would be very selfish of him, knowing her beliefs and her stance against divorce, to use her in that way if he knows that he doesn't have a romantic or sexual drive for women. That would make me sad for her, her most likely noxious beliefs aside.

Not piling on! Happy to hear other views.

I guess what I was trying to get at rather poorly is that we kind of consider these marriages to be poor imitations of what successful and fulfilling relationships can be in the secular world. These women may not even find a truly loving and romantic relationship that meets her needs with a completely straight man.

But like I said, I don't want to presume how a relationship like that may affect others in a different way than two straight people forced into a loveless marriage. There are other complications at play that I admit that I know nothing about and just went ahead and glossed over.

[louisa05]

14 minutes ago, amendgitan said:

It's so sad how these people have to repress their normal, human emotions and become self-loathing and panicked if they indulge in typical adolescent and young adult behaviors.  

In my experience in evangelical world, not only that, but those things become testimony fodder and the more dramatic for that purpose the better. Often, normal teenage experiences are exaggerated, then exaggerated some more, and then exaggerated a little bit more after that to make a good testimony. I remember kids at Christian school lamenting that they never did anything bad so their testimony was not dramatic enough. 

*For those not in that world, a "testimony" is a story of how and why you got saved. Dramatic ones full of horrifying sin prior to being saved are considered better because they will inspire more people to get saved themselves. 

I have to wonder how bad anything this guy did really was. Getting in trouble with alcohol in evangelical world often means "I had one drink once". 

The whole sports story of declining skills being a message from God is pretty typical, too. Not only are a decline in skills a message from God, injury is always a message that you have put success in the sport before God and must get saved, or saved again, or saved for real because the first time didn't really take or something like that. I heard that particular chapel testimony from kids at Christian school with sports injuries probably 20 times in just six years.