Jill, Derick and Israel- Part 16

[nst]

1 hour ago, VelociRapture said:

Took a look at their website and at their anniversary letters to each other. Derick of course mentioned Jill's live for Jesus, but also praised her for being creative, open-minded (huh?!), and for having a fun-loving personality. 

Jill's was more interesting to me:

 

This is the first time I've seen any indication on how long they knew each other prior to engagement. They married in June and were engaged in March. That means they started courting around November of 2013 (I'm guessing after Erin Paine's wedding) and started talking sometime in August of that year. Which is a grand total of ten months. 

(And can I just take a moment to point out she barely mentioned God in her's like she usually does. Thankfully. It gets old reading the same thing constantly. )

I also took a look at her Father's Day letters. She mentions God way more, of course, but I was pleasantly surprised that it wasn't the only focus - she mentioned a lot of different more personal qualities of both her father and Derick that she admires and appreciates. The one to her dad was tough to get through - partly because of all the God stuff and partly because her dad is one of the shittiest dads ever - but the one to Derick was easier because I feel like age was being honest when she mentioned what she admires about him. Like how she loves seeing Derick playing football with Israel or how gets all giggly when Derick tickles him before bed (or that Izzy's favorite snack are bananas.)

The letters aren't the greatest, but I do think it's a slight improvement over past posts they've made. Which, you know, isn't really saying much. But still.

who can ever forget the Valentines instagram of 2015 ?

 

[Marissap]

On June 20, 2016 at 4:48 PM, manda b said:

It could have been worse. He could have said we've been practicing though. :shudder:

Yes but "practice makes babies!!!!!!!!! "

 

Ugh 

[Ungodly Grandma]

41 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

I kind of liked her letter, but why make it public?

To be fair, that is not just the Duggars. Many, many young people seem to overshare.

But I am not only older, but a private person.

[Season of life...]

52 minutes ago, PennySycamore said:

You mentioning teenage girls reminded me that my husband calls handwriting like Jill's script "horse girl" writing.  It's like the writing of an eighth grade girl who loves horses or drawing horses and it's full of big loopy writing and circles for periods (aka full stops.)  Does every girl go through a circle period stage only to outgrow it?

BEC here: I admit I looked for little hearts over her i's and was surprised, and a little disappointed, not to find any. Yeah, the "Wifey 4 Lifey" makes me laugh unkindly, and a part of me is actually sorry for it. These people really bring out the worst in me.

At least her letter shows she is still enthusiastic over her choice of husband, although she makes him sound like a puppy: "...devoted, loving, faithful, wonderful, protective, supportive...". Heel, Derick!

I feel the letter is *totally* meant for the haters--Derick knows how long they courted, there is no need to break down the timeline for his benefit. 

 

[theinvisiblegirl]

1 hour ago, PennySycamore said:

You mentioning teenage girls reminded me that my husband calls handwriting like Jill's script "horse girl" writing.  It's like the writing of an eighth grade girl who loves horses or drawing horses and it's full of big loopy writing and circles for periods (aka full stops.)  Does every girl go through a circle period stage only to outgrow it?

I never did circle periods of circles to dot my 'i's. Maybe I'm an anomaly, though?

[nastyhobbitses]

1 hour ago, PennySycamore said:

You mentioning teenage girls reminded me that my husband calls handwriting like Jill's script "horse girl" writing.  It's like the writing of an eighth grade girl who loves horses or drawing horses and it's full of big loopy writing and circles for periods (aka full stops.)  Does every girl go through a circle period stage only to outgrow it?

I never went through that phase. My handwriting is fairly rounded, but it's super tiny and almost looks like the Papyrus font, if that makes any sense.

[BunnyBee]

39 minutes ago, Ungodly Grandma said:

To be fair, that is not just the Duggars. Many, many young people seem to overshare.

But I am not only older, but a private person.

 

This! I am in my twenties and I just don't understand why my peers write these long fathers day messages on social media like their dad's are going to see it?? Call your dad, tell him how much you love him over the phone or in person. Or recently my grandfather passed away, and my siblings and cousins took to facebook posting "Rest in peace Grandpa" and it was something I couldn't wrap my head around. Do they think Pop pop is checking FB from the great beyond? Is it for sympathy and validation? Attention? I DONT UNDERSTAND MY PEERS

[VelociRapture]

18 minutes ago, BunnyBee said:

This! I am in my twenties and I just don't understand why my peers write these long fathers day messages on social media like their dad's are going to see it?? Call your dad, tell him how much you love him over the phone or in person. Or recently my grandfather passed away, and my siblings and cousins took to facebook posting "Rest in peace Grandpa" and it was something I couldn't wrap my head around. Do they think Pop pop is checking FB from the great beyond? Is it for sympathy and validation? Attention? I DONT UNDERSTAND MY PEERS

Two things -

1. Some of our dads are on Facebook. I didn't write a long post, but I did put up a photo collage featuring three important dads in my life (mine, FIL, and BIL) wishing them a happy day. They all saw and enjoyed it. I know because I saw two of them that day and saw the third a few days later.

2. This subject came up in another thread. I don't think it's fair to judge people for sharing the loss of a loved one via social media. Everyone grieves differently - some people mourn privately and others find comfort in sharing it with others. Neither way is right for everyone.

For instance, I don't share that stuff when it happens because that's not how I choose to mourn. If I lost a parent or a sibling I might because I could probably use the support. I don't mind when people do though. If I did, I'd just ignore the post abd move on with my day.

On the other hand, I know a family who lost their teenage daughter to liver disease a few years ago. Long story short, she battled it since birth, survived one transplant, and died waiting for a second following an infection that forced the Doctors to take her off her anti-rejection meds. Her mother and older sister often shared their grief on Facebook immediately after it happened. They still do once in a while when it becomes overwhelming for them. Are they just "looking for attention" as you put it? No. They are deeply mourning the loss of someone they adored, a loss they likely will never recover from fully.

I'm sure there are people who are simply looking for attention - but they are not the majority by far. At least not from what I've seen.

(And for the record, I'm 28. Most people I know - older, younger, and the same age as me - would likely agree with what I've said.)

ETA: This may come across a lot bitchier than intended. Sorry if it does. This is something that bothers me a bit though. I don't think people should judge others for how they work through grief.

[Bad Wolf]

31 minutes ago, theinvisiblegirl said:

I never did circle periods of circles to dot my 'i's. Maybe I'm an anomaly, though?

I didn't either. I don't think the O or A level examiners would have been amused.

[BunnyBee]

Woah @velicorapture sorry if i triggered you in some way.... But I was saying that I, as in me personally, do not understand it. And I am pretty entitled to my own opinion. I fully understand grief, I finish my bachelor's in psychology in 5 months, but I was stating that my brain just can't wrap around the public grieving or public admiration thing.  To be fair, I don't like social media and don't have many social media outlets. To be fair if you're posting something publically onto a social media platform, you technically are seeking attention from your peers. 

[VelociRapture]

38 minutes ago, BunnyBee said:

Woah @velicorapture sorry if i triggered you in some way.... But I was saying that I, as in me personally, do not understand it. And I am pretty entitled to my own opinion. I fully understand grief, I finish my bachelor's in psychology in 5 months, but I was stating that my brain just can't wrap around the public grieving or public admiration thing.  To be fair, I don't like social media and don't have many social media outlets. To be fair if you're posting something publically onto a social media platform, you technically are seeking attention from your peers. 

As I said in my edit, sorry if it came off as bitchy as that wasn't the intent.

No, I'm not being triggered by anything - I'm simply just a bit weary of seeing some people telling others how they should or should not cope with grief or tragic situations (in general, not just on here.) Your original post struck me as judging others for coping with grief in other manners than what you may be used to - mostly due to the choice of words regarding seeking attention or validation. If you didn't mean it that way then sorry. But that is how it came across to me at the time.

In my experience, people aren't looking for attention or validation when they share their grief. They do so because they're sad and sharing online brings some people comfort in the same way sharing in person brings others comfort. I honestly see nothing wrong with doing so if it helps the person cope with their emotions in a healthy manner. If it isn't, that's another matter entirely.

 

[xlurker]

Regarding the social media/death notices.  I've been known to post if someone that had impacted my life in some way passes.  For me, it is not for attention, or that I think they would ever see it.  It's more about acknowlegment.  This person was in some way special to me, the least I can do is publicly proclaim that they were.  So maybe, in some way it is a grieving process  It is much the same for father's day.  Although my dad had passed many years ago, I will always post a general "Happy Father's Day" message, but it will include a shout out to my dad.

[twinmama]

3 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

Took a look at their website and at their anniversary letters to each other. Derick of course mentioned Jill's live for Jesus, but also praised her for being creative, open-minded (huh?!), and for having a fun-loving personality. 

Jill's was more interesting to me:

 

Oh my god. Without even reading this it is such a 13 year old girl thing. I'm like legit embarrassed for her.

2 hours ago, PennySycamore said:

You mentioning teenage girls reminded me that my husband calls handwriting like Jill's script "horse girl" writing.  It's like the writing of an eighth grade girl who loves horses or drawing horses and it's full of big loopy writing and circles for periods (aka full stops.)  Does every girl go through a circle period stage only to outgrow it?

Yesss!!! 13 year old girl was my first thought too. I'm surprised there weren't more hearts.

However, I bet this was totally for show because wtf is the point of the parenthetical after "how fast we moved" explaining each step of their relationship??? Derrick was there. He knows how long you talked, etc. 

[nastyhobbitses]

17 minutes ago, xlurker said:

Regarding the social media/death notices.  I've been known to post if someone that had impacted my life in some way passes.  For me, it is not for attention, or that I think they would ever see it.  It's more about acknowlegment.  This person was in some way special to me, the least I can do is publicly proclaim that they were.  So maybe, in some way it is a grieving process  It is much the same for father's day.  Although my dad had passed many years ago, I will always post a general "Happy Father's Day" message, but it will include a shout out to my dad.

This. I tend to go by the awesome/terrible/funny route for stuff to post social media (I'll only post if something awesome, terrible, or funny happened), or for communicating with my family, since coordinating Skype calls is hard and alternative forms of (immediate, not text/email) communication can be expensive. I give Mother's/Father's/parents' birthdays shout-outs on my FB wall because for me, it's a nice way to publicly acknowledge how much my parents mean to me.

As for death, I'm very lucky that I haven't had to deal with that...yet. My grandfather's on hospice right now and I'm not sure if I'm going to acknowledge his death on Facebook. I don't want to come off as too attention whore-y and while I've been pretty open with people about how his impending death is weighing on my mind, I think I'd prefer to keep my real grief that will come when it happens limited to people who are obligated/likely to care, not everyone on my friends list.

[twinmama]

1 hour ago, VelociRapture said:

Two things -

1. Some of our dads are on Facebook. I didn't write a long post, but I did put up a photo collage featuring three important dads in my life (mine, FIL, and BIL) wishing them a happy day. They all saw and enjoyed it. I know because I saw two of them that day and saw the third a few days later.

2. This subject came up in another thread. I don't think it's fair to judge people for sharing the loss of a loved one via social media. Everyone grieves differently - some people mourn privately and others find comfort in sharing it with others. Neither way is right for everyone.

For instance, I don't share that stuff when it happens because that's not how I choose to mourn. If I lost a parent or a sibling I might because I could probably use the support. I don't mind when people do though. If I did, I'd just ignore the post abd move on with my day.

On the other hand, I know a family who lost their teenage daughter to liver disease a few years ago. Long story short, she battled it since birth, survived one transplant, and died waiting for a second following an infection that forced the Doctors to take her off her anti-rejection meds. Her mother and older sister often shared their grief on Facebook immediately after it happened. They still do once in a while when it becomes overwhelming for them. Are they just "looking for attention" as you put it? No. They are deeply mourning the loss of someone they adored, a loss they likely will never recover from fully.

I'm sure there are people who are simply looking for attention - but they are not the majority by far. At least not from what I've seen.

(And for the record, I'm 28. Most people I know - older, younger, and the same age as me - would likely agree with what I've said.)

ETA: This may come across a lot bitchier than intended. Sorry if it does. This is something that bothers me a bit though. I don't think people should judge others for how they work through grief.

I'll say as an old (of 37 looong years, lol), it's the way it's phrased rather than who it's to. My dad has no FB, so if I post a father's day thing, it isn't phrased like I'm talking TO him. Just a general "I have a cool dad, Happy father's day to all the cool dads" or something. I certainly never post anything to a dead person, but I completely understand the need to tell your friends publicly that suffered a loss. 

Had a funny experience with this recently. A distant friend's grandma was ill and she posted something about being in hospice and going home soon, and I literally had no idea if she meant she was getting better and going home, or she was dying. Today she posted something sad about being home and it was clear the grandma had died. I responded to the today post, but the other one I had no idea if I should say "Oh thank goodness!" or "I'm so sorry" and making the wrong choice could have been pretty awful, lol.

1 hour ago, BunnyBee said:

Woah @velicorapture sorry if i triggered you in some way.... But I was saying that I, as in me personally, do not understand it. And I am pretty entitled to my own opinion. I fully understand grief, I finish my bachelor's in psychology in 5 months, but I was stating that my brain just can't wrap around the public grieving or public admiration thing.  To be fair, I don't like social media and don't have many social media outlets. To be fair if you're posting something publically onto a social media platform, you technically are seeking attention from your peers. 

I think it's less public grieving and more asking for support when you don't really know how to do it otherwise. There isn't really anything wrong with seeking attention. It is healthy to share your loss and ask friends and family to help you through a hard time!! The people moaning and groaning over Prince's death or something, I understand that less, though I still don't judge. But a family member and a personal loss, they're just asking for support.

12 minutes ago, nastyhobbitses said:

My grandfather's on hospice right now and I'm not sure if I'm going to acknowledge his death on Facebook. I don't want to come off as too attention whore-y and while I've been pretty open with people about how his impending death is weighing on my mind, I think I'd prefer to keep my real grief that will come when it happens limited to people who are obligated/likely to care, not everyone on my friends list.

IMO, a real friend is only going to see a post about your loss and reach out to see how you are. They aren't going to think you're famewhoring or anything like that at all. I hate when people complain about what someone posts on their own Facebook page! If they don't like it, they can hide you and you'll never know. Post what you need to post, what you want to post and real friends will understand. Why not use Facebook in a positive way, to think about, remember and love your grandpa? And of course if you aren't comfortable with sharing with all your FB friends, you can post something only family sees or only a certain group sees.

[Rachel333]

I've started thinking that if someone is looking for attention... so what? It's also possible they actually need it. It can definitely get excessive and I often find myself rolling my eyes at things people post online, but I also think we sometimes forget that attention is a basic human need and it's not a bad thing for someone to want it.

I also think it's a problem that women are labeled as attention seekers much more easily than men are.

I'll add that I'm saying this as someone who barely uses facebook and doesn't post personal stuff on there at all. In real life too I'm a very shy and private person, so I'm really not seen as an attention-seeker, but I've noticed how often other women are.

[EmCatlyn]

3 hours ago, theinvisiblegirl said:

They said they were going to give it at least a year, and that year was up this month. A return could be in their future, especially if they want to add to their quiver safely.

So they start counting the year from when the first went to "an undisclosed missionary location" which turned out to be the usual SOS mission?

  I would have thought that since they spent four-to-six weeks back in the US and at least another four to six weeks taking Spanish lessons in Central America, they are short at least a couple of months.  But heck, this is Duggar time.

 

[theinvisiblegirl]

I'm not sure how this woman uses social media and if she's just tagging Derick, Jill and Dan so they see it or if they're live streaming it with her?

[blackgold86]

The hastag is actually good to browse through. So many knees! No modesty whatsoever!

Here is the link to the live stream

http://livestream.com/

bgco/fallscreek

[theinvisiblegirl]

Oh! Also, on a completely unrelated note to what I posted with Cathy's tweet:

When I left my therapist's office tonight and turned the corner to walk down a hall to leave, some guy was talking to one of the other therapists - I think he might have been one, too, because he went into the office next to the woman that he was talking to, a previously shut door. Only he didn't look like a therapist or a psychiatrist. He had this big bag slung over his shoulder, like he had been coming back from some grand adventure. And he looked like he could be a long lost grifting Dillard brother. He looked scarily like Derick. As I was walking away, I started laughing and told myself that I had to post it in this thread tonight. Then I saw Cathy's tweet and got distracted.

[apandaaries]

5 hours ago, PennySycamore said:

You mentioning teenage girls reminded me that my husband calls handwriting like Jill's script "horse girl" writing.  It's like the writing of an eighth grade girl who loves horses or drawing horses and it's full of big loopy writing and circles for periods (aka full stops.)  Does every girl go through a circle period stage only to outgrow it?

Nope!  And I loved horses and rode for several years -- but NEVER got into that style of writing.  It was far too cutesy for my stomach, and I'm still suspicious of those whose dots are more like circles.  

3 hours ago, xlurker said:

Regarding the social media/death notices.  I've been known to post if someone that had impacted my life in some way passes.  For me, it is not for attention, or that I think they would ever see it.  It's more about acknowledgment.  This person was in some way special to me, the least I can do is publicly proclaim that they were.  So maybe, in some way it is a grieving process  

For me it is a part of the grieving process.  I've had a few people die at surprisingly young ages, which obviously shocked everyone they knew.  That friend/family circle is global, so we connect online to grieve and share stories.  It's clearly not everyone who was involved in the life of the deceased, but it's a way we can remember the person we all loved and will now always miss.  A wonderful woman I knew passed away in January at FAR too young an age (hadn't even hit 40).  She had lived and studied all over the planet.  Not everyone could attend the services, but many could try to express some of the overwhelming shock and grief we felt when she passed and in the aftermath.  I'd guess that a lot of the people posting there were in their 30s and 40s; we had an area to share stories and remember her.  Death and grief are so disorienting that unless someone's grieving process is truly dangerous, it seems like it's usually best to just try not to judge.

So off topic! <snip>

[luxfilia]

3 hours ago, twinmama said:

I think it's less public grieving and more asking for support when you don't really know how to do it otherwise. There isn't really anything wrong with seeking attention. It is healthy to share your loss and ask friends and family to help you through a hard time!! The people moaning and groaning over Prince's death or something, I understand that less, though I still don't judge. But a family member and a personal loss, they're just asking for support.

IMO, a real friend is only going to see a post about your loss and reach out to see how you are. They aren't going to think you're famewhoring or anything like that at all. I hate when people complain about what someone posts on their own Facebook page! If they don't like it, they can hide you and you'll never know. Post what you need to post, what you want to post and real friends will understand. Why not use Facebook in a positive way, to think about, remember and love your grandpa? And of course if you aren't comfortable with sharing with all your FB friends, you can post something only family sees or only a certain group sees.

Just want to add that, in my experience as a woman in her late twenties, it's the generation above me who grossly overshares on Facebook. My MIL, for example, can't keep a praise for a family member or a seemingly relevant (to her), vague quote to herself. She's just one example of very many her age with the same habit. I think the fact that so many of my generation's parents and grandparents are now on Facebook actually discourages many of us from sharing anything more than wedding photos or other really big-deal moments. I definitely don't rant or share thoughts about my bad days or photos of my weekends out like I did when social media was used mainly by younger people.

But I do share a photo and a thought or memory when someone in my family passed away, and this is NOT for "support." I'm extremely private and actually feel very uncomfortable when people hug me or get sentimental with words. However, other people usually mention such deaths on social media even before the sufferer has acknowledged it, especially if you're from a small town, have a large family, etc., where word travels fast. So it might seem heartless not to acknowledge the loss myself in some way when others are doing so on my own page. Not that that should matter.

But above all that, I limit my "friends" carefully and see social media almost more like a diary (without all the sensational parts). I like looking back through my old posts to see what I've been through. So when I post anything, it's honestly for myself and I don't care if anyone sees it. In fact, I have many photo albums, etc., that only I can view (after my house burned down, my home was burglarized, etc., I see the value in saving photos and things online whenever possible, even to social media. Dropbox and the like only have so much free storage.)

It's totally different for public figures posting to public profiles, but I wouldn't want to be lumped in with a Duggar daughter just because we are near the same age.

[seasonsoflife]

5 hours ago, BunnyBee said:

This! I am in my twenties and I just don't understand why my peers write these long fathers day messages on social media like their dad's are going to see it?? Call your dad, tell him how much you love him over the phone or in person. Or recently my grandfather passed away, and my siblings and cousins took to facebook posting "Rest in peace Grandpa" and it was something I couldn't wrap my head around. Do they think Pop pop is checking FB from the great beyond? Is it for sympathy and validation? Attention? I DONT UNDERSTAND MY PEERS

You know, last month when I found my (healthy) 70 year old mom dead in her apartment I just thought "awesome, this will get me SO MUCH social media attention". The pic I posted of us when I was a toddler was a total hit, it got more likes than anything I have ever posted. It made me feel so special and validated that I could almost forgive her for passing away unexpectedly the week before my belated honeymoon...oh...and for leaving me without a mother.

Unfortunately I don't believe in "the great beyond", so, as active as she was on social media, I am pretty sure she won't see any of it, because she is pretty much gone, and I won't get to reunite with her in the afterlife.

I am glad you are not my friend nor my psychologist. 

[EmCatlyn]

52 minutes ago, seasonsoflife said:

You know, last month when I found my (healthy) 70 year old mom dead in her apartment I just thought "awesome, this will get me SO MUCH social media attention". The pic I posted of us when I was a toddler was a total hit, it got more likes than anything I have ever posted. It made me feel so special and validated that I could almost forgive her for passing away unexpectedly the week before my belated honeymoon...oh...and for leaving me without a mother.

Unfortunately I don't believe in "the great beyond", so, as active as she was on social media, I am pretty sure she won't see any of it, because she is pretty much gone, and I won't get to reunite with her in the afterlife.

I am glad you are not my friend nor my psychologist. 

. The emoticon is silly, but I want to send you a real hug.    

 I think that a lot of times in these forums people forget that their opinions and prejudices can hurt others.  I think that a lot of us in this society (even under-30 folks) are still coming to terms with self-expression within social media.  

It must have been horrendous to lose your mom so unexpectedly.  I can see how you feel cheated of more time with her, and I would suggest to any armchair psychologists out there (whether or not they are psychology majors) that one use of social media is to keep relationships "alive."

We post on facebook not only to report to the world about our lives. We post as part of an exchange with other people who post about their lives. Relationships are supported in this way.

Relationships are also supported by telling about them. We keep our dead loved ones alive by sharing our memories and pictures with our friends.  It is partly bearing witness and partly reaching out.  When friends "like" your message about your mom or the picture of the two of you, they are both connecting with you and supporting your connection with your mother.

Mothers never leave us. You will always miss her, but remembering her and what she taught you and the good and bad times will always keep her near in some way.  Why shouldn't you remember your mom on Facebook?

I don't think anybody here (at least not anybody with sense) thinks that sharing grief on Facebook or anywhere else is some sort of attention-getting ploy.  We just get carried away with our snarking.

 

[violynn]

I just wanted to say, @EmCatlyn, that was lovely.  Thank you.