#Big Sandy 2016

[DaisyD]

2 hours ago, formergothardite said:

I don't remember Gothard being KJV only, he just attracted people who were KJV only. 

Here is a picture of Alert guys standing in front of a memorial to real military men. They don't appear to see the irony of them posing in front of this when they stick to their pretend army instead of doing the real thing. 

 

I would bet that none of those kids even know what that statue depicts. They probably know about the extra hand as the hand of God, but nothing about the Iwo. Do they teach actual WWII history at the SOTDRT or do they think that it was a mission to bring Christianity to the false idol worshipping Japanese? 

[Gimme a Free RV]

4 hours ago, RosyDaisy said:

My husband doubts about ALERT graduates being able to become real first responders or provide any real help during disaster relief.

You know, Southern Baptists have disaster relief teams that don't require para-military training.    They, I think, have some meetings to talk about strategies, but they go to build, support, take supplies, care for, etc.  They don't act like they are something they're not.  They go with servant hearts, ready to administer basic medical care and any other care needed in the emergency situation.  You might see one of them wearing a John Deer baseball cap but certainly not a "military uniform."  They'll act like real, compassionate people.

[RosyDaisy]

All disaster relief and recovery has be coordinated by local emergency management. And some churches have teams that are ready to go and sign up. Mine does. I just can't see the IBLP/ALERT types doing much of anything except proselytizing.

[Wenny]

 

2 hours ago, nastyhobbitses said:

THIS. Being a first responder requires a lot of initiative, quick/critical thinking, empathy, flexibility, and ability to deal with a large variety of people of tons of different backgrounds/worldviews on what very well could be the worst day of their lives. None of those are skills or (blegh) Character Qualities that ATI or ALERT teach or endorse.

Also people are the worst. Cracked did a article about why you suck in emergency situation if you aren't a FR. Being a righteous person doesn't mean you make the right choices/ 

 

[Elegant Mess]

1 hour ago, Granwych said:

How about a "Dweeb calendar?"  That would be good for a whole year of hysteria, if you could hold back from flipping through all the months...

I'm off to drool over the Kittendales calendar now.

http://www.kittendales.com/

 

[slickcat79]

This thread is ALMOST making me miss the BRADRICK! Crisis Leadership Network 

[nastyhobbitses]

1 hour ago, Wenny said:

 

Also people are the worst. Cracked did a article about why you suck in emergency situation if you aren't a FR. Being a righteous person doesn't mean you make the right choices/ 

 

And what ATI considers "righteous"....

The gall they have to call themselves first responders with only ATI-provided training is a sore spot for me, because a ton of my friends are EMTs (I'd like to take classes and get certified myself, but I don't know when I'll have the time and finances to do so) and my dad is a volunteer firefighter. He had to do tons of specialized training and learn how to be an effective first responder in tons of different scenarios, and that includes making a lot of tough choices on the spot. The Duggar boys and a lot of other ATI boys have never learned how to make choices, let alone major choices in a split-second when time truly matters and people's lives are on the line.

[Gobsmacked]

12 hours ago, TXGirlInAMaterialWorld said:

The whole lineup for Big Sandy looks like a real snoozer...

If they want to bring in crowds- maybe David Waller can dress up like the Cheshire Cat and puff on a hookah while asking the crowd, "Who.....Are.....You....." 

 

I've got an ear worm now.  The title song from CSI!

Roger Daltry has a good voice so it's not too bad!!

[formergothardite]

I was just thinking of BRADRICK!! and how his little army of helpers were probably just as helpful as Alert. 

In looking for Big Sandy pictures I found this one:

Mr. Bell was in charge of the Dallas Training center when I was at EXCEL. He quit his job working for the government in Florida to come work for Gothard in Dallas. He oldest daughter Lauren was extremely talented musically but was stifled with the ATI life. Her "job" was leading the daily singing for EXCEL. I remember her talking once about sitting in her room crying about her life, but then feeling guilty because she wasn't being an "energy giver". I can still see her standing up there talking about that. Her life must have been hell. I looked her up on FB and she is married, no kids and sells essential oils. 

[Dandruff]

20 minutes ago, nastyhobbitses said:

And what ATI considers "righteous"....

The gall they have to call themselves first responders with only ATI-provided training is a sore spot for me, because a ton of my friends are EMTs (I'd like to take classes and get certified myself, but I don't know when I'll have the time and finances to do so) and my dad is a volunteer firefighter. He had to do tons of specialized training and learn how to be an effective first responder in tons of different scenarios, and that includes making a lot of tough choices on the spot. The Duggar boys and a lot of other ATI boys have never learned how to make choices, let alone major choices in a split-second when time truly matters and people's lives are on the line.

Fortunately, I doubt they show up first for much of anything aside from situations local to Big Sandy.  By the time they hear and get their act together regarding anything else, "real" first responders should have responded.

It would be interesting to get some feedback from non-ATI first responders who have had the opportunity to work with ALERT personnel during a disaster.  If the ALERT folks are good at taking and following orders (which I imagine they would be) vs. trying to take charge, then perhaps they're of some good use.

[Crocoduck]

3 hours ago, Gimme a Free RV said:

You know, Southern Baptists have disaster relief teams that don't require para-military training.    They, I think, have some meetings to talk about strategies, but they go to build, support, take supplies, care for, etc.  They don't act like they are something they're not.  They go with servant hearts, ready to administer basic medical care and any other care needed in the emergency situation.  You might see one of them wearing a John Deer baseball cap but certainly not a "military uniform."  They'll act like real, compassionate people.

I once participated in disaster relief with members of the North Carolina Baptist Men's Association (and the Women's Auxiliary). I had absolutely nothing in common with any of them, and we probably disagree about every possible political and social issue... but they were AMAZING volunteers. As you said, they had servant hearts and worked tirelessly for weeks to help people who had lost everything they owned. And they didn't care if those people were black, white, gay, straight, Christian or ebil heathen.

[Wenny]

53 minutes ago, nastyhobbitses said:

And what ATI considers "righteous"....

The gall they have to call themselves first responders with only ATI-provided training is a sore spot for me, because a ton of my friends are EMTs (I'd like to take classes and get certified myself, but I don't know when I'll have the time and finances to do so) and my dad is a volunteer firefighter. He had to do tons of specialized training and learn how to be an effective first responder in tons of different scenarios, and that includes making a lot of tough choices on the spot. The Duggar boys and a lot of other ATI boys have never learned how to make choices, let alone major choices in a split-second when time truly matters and people's lives are on the line.

*Gasp* They may see the boo-bies! I work the medical field...the clerical side. I like my office, I like dealing with insurance, paperwork, dotting i's and crossing T's. In a emgernecy I am the one standing on the corner waving the bus down.  I don't like blood or living  breathing hurting things. 

[sophie10130]

10 hours ago, nastyhobbitses said:

I would have paid good money to witness that. From what I understand, the military has a strong Evangelical Christian influence/contingent (which I guess makes sense from a demographic standpoint), but pretty much everyone I know who served in the military could curse a blue streak (where do you think the phrase "curse like a sailor" came from?) and knew some very raunchy sexual songs and jokes (though apparently a lot of the raunchier jody calls aren't allowed anymore). It's just a way to deal with stress and build camaraderie.

oh man SO many evangelical christians. But also tons of people who grew up in rural Christian families, don't go to church anymore, but judge people who aren't Christians. 

And also, off topic, a lot of Mormons. I guess you can either pick military service or a mission these days? Maybe this is for more laid back Mormons.

Yeah, thinking about it, my husband's job does not lend itself well to weekly church meetings. He's on a submarine, and as far as I know, there aren't any services on board. They say that if there's enough interest they will make one for whatever groups there's interest in, but I've never actually heard of his boat doing that.

Just imagine some little Gothardite joining the military. At first, it's nice, because the only book you're allowed in Boot Camp is the Bible. Then, you go to school and it's school, so you have the weekends more or less free and they have services on the base. Then you get attached to a submarine. And you go on deployments and no church services for months plus you share your living quarters with HEATHENS and eating and working quarters with WOMEN WHO ARE SUPERIOR TO YOU. Then you come home and have to stand duty where you can't leave the boat for 24 hours or more *GASP* sometimes on SUNDAY!!!! The horror! And if you stand duty on Saturday you might not make it off the boat in time for church! Oh the iniquity of it all!!! (I wish there was a fanning myself emoji)

Edited April 25, 2016 by sophie10130

[IReallyAmHopewell]

They see ALERT, then volunteer fire or EMT or police service--as a way to ingratiate themselves in the community and win converts by their excellent character. Yet another contradiction. Serve in local police or fire (volunteer) is ok--I assume as a volunteer it is ethical to walk away if you have an immoral ungodly leader. I'm sure many of those guys and some of the girls would LOVE to escape into the real military but lack the documents (GED or college credit) or whatever to do so. I'd take Paris Island any day over another day of living in a typical Gothard family. Most do not have near the $$ of the Duggars. At least it would be the old 3 hots and cot and a cot you don't have to share with a little brother.

[feministxtian]

12 minutes ago, sophie10130 said:

oh man SO many evangelical christians. But also tons of people who grew up in rural Christian families, don't go to church anymore, but judge people who aren't Christians. 

And also, off topic, a lot of Mormons. I guess you can either pick military service or a mission these days? Maybe this is for more laid back Mormons.

Yeah, thinking about it, my husband's job does not lend itself well to weekly church meetings. He's on a submarine, and as far as I know, there aren't any services on board. They say that if there's enough interest they will make one for whatever groups there's interest in, but I've never actually heard of his boat doing that.

Just imagine some little Gothardite joining the military. At first, it's nice, because the only book you're allowed in Boot Camp is the Bible. Then, you go to school and it's school, so you have the weekends more or less free and they have services on the base. Then you get attached to a submarine. And you go on deployments and no church services for months plus you share your living quarters with HEATHENS and eating and working quarters with WOMEN WHO ARE SUPERIOR TO YOU. Then you come home and have to stand duty where you can't leave the boat for 24 hours or more *GASP* sometimes on SUNDAY!!!! The horror! And if you stand duty on Saturday you might not make it off the boat in time for church! Oh the iniquity of it all!!! (I wish there was a fanning myself emoji)

My husband is retired USN. He was surface ships, but we knew quite a few sub families. Yeah, duty sucked, deployments sucked. Surface ships, if they're big enough have Sunday services. But...usually the guys are too busy for much. An actual Sunday off is a rarity, well, if you're far enough up the food chain, maybe. Hubs retired E-6 and was a shop supervisor so...not many Sundays off for him. 

There were a few "Christians" on his ship(s) but they usually stuck to themselves. The rest were the hard drinking, cussing, woman-chasing sorts. The Evangelicals usually go Air Force. Army is an interesting mix, Navy has a lot of "heathens". My dad was USAF, husband USN, son USA. Don't know about the Marines. 

[Palimpsest]

25 minutes ago, IReallyAmHopewell said:

They see ALERT, then volunteer fire or EMT or police service--as a way to ingratiate themselves in the community and win converts by their excellent character. Yet another contradiction. Serve in local police or fire (volunteer) is ok--I assume as a volunteer it is ethical to walk away if you have an immoral ungodly leader. I'm sure many of those guys and some of the girls would LOVE to escape into the real military but lack the documents (GED or college credit) or whatever to do so. I'd take Paris Island any day over another day of living in a typical Gothard family. Most do not have near the $$ of the Duggars. At least it would be the old 3 hots and cot and a cot you don't have to share with a little brother.

This!  Actually some of the ALERT recruits probably go there happily to get away from ATI homes too.  It looks like a year of Biblical Boy Scouting and playing soldiers.  ALERT has also eased up on some of the vicious training methods in the last few years (allegedly).  I also think this year's "platoon" looks much smaller than in previous years.  So they have "deployed" to Fiji to proselytize, to some local tornado clean-up, and to clean out a senior citizen's cellar this year.  Big whoop.  

There is some weapons training at ALERT.  How much is unclear and it has always made me very uneasy.  Although they offer EMT courses and such-like these courses are not accredited when you look at the small print,

ALERT really seems focused on training young men to think they are better prepared than they are in reality for S & R work.  I'm sure real life comes as a big shock to them.

Some of the ALERT graduates do seem to go on to the real armed forces.  There is one story on Recovering Grace, and I think also a couple of stories confirm this at ex-ATI.  Also one of the plaintiffs in the lawsuit claims unlawful imprisonment, I think at ALERT.  I'll have to double-check that.

@formergothardite and other former IBLP/ATI people can you check the following link for accuracy, please.  It seems to be a really comprehensive overview of Gothardism although it is out of date.  It is really long! Thanks in advance.

 http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/gothard/general.htm 

Edited April 25, 2016 by Palimpsest

[Thorns]

On 19.4.2016 at 10:44 PM, Tim-Tom Biblethumper said:

Posted 4 hours ago.  I'd forgotten that Jeer was currently at Alert.
 

 

Hopefully he'll never have to actually cross a river using a rope. Unless he wants to fall down and drown. 

 

[DaisyD]

I didn't know a single evangelical in the Navy. At least not a proselytizing one. I'm sure they're out there, but they must have kept to themselves. A sub would be about the only place that a godly ATI boy wouldn't have to worry about a female superior (unless they've gotten female officers on board now). When I was in they said that any sub with females would have to be all female because there was no space for separate berths.

Edited April 25, 2016 by daisyd681
Words

[HereticHick]

3 minutes ago, daisyd681 said:

I didn't know a single evangelical in the Navy. At least not a proselytizing one. I'm sure they're out there, but they must have kept to themselves. A sub would be about the only place that a godly ATI boy wouldn't have to worry about a female superior (unless they've gotten female officers on board now). When I was in they said that any dub with females would have to be all female because there was no space for separate berths.

Only because you haven't fallen down the Heistheway rabbit hole of Tim and Franicia White: https://www.instagram.com/timandfranicia/

http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/2015/08/05/chattanooga-nosc-tim-white-shooting-charges/31157189/

[sophie10130]

12 minutes ago, daisyd681 said:

I didn't know a single evangelical in the Navy. At least not a proselytizing one. I'm sure they're out there, but they must have kept to themselves. A sub would be about the only place that a godly ATI boy wouldn't have to worry about a female superior (unless they've gotten female officers on board now). When I was in they said that any sub with females would have to be all female because there was no space for separate berths.

They do. I think as of right now, the only females on board are officers. They have created all women officer berthing and the bathrooms now have flip signs so that if a woman goes in she flips up the "Women's" sign. Kinda silly, but that's what they decided would be the most helpful, I guess. I have a lot of issues with women being in the military and not because I don't think women can do it. But that's a different discussion.

I've met quite a few evangelical men. Including one who had a bell that he rang if he wanted his wife to bring him a beer while he was playing his video games. They all try to get my husband to like guns, and for whatever reason they just really want us to own a gun and keep it armed in our bedside table. My husband is very loud about being liberal, so it draws them like flies because they want to talk him into a corner. Hah!

Edited April 25, 2016 by sophie10130

[nastyhobbitses]

I just looked through that Instagram that posted the picture of J. Duggar (most useless nametag ever). I'm not military at all, I have no family connections to the military beyond my grandfathers being drafted in World War II (and both served non-combat roles), and I was super annoyed at the ATI boys going "oorah" in some of the videos. You are not a Marine. Stop.

[docmom]

17 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

A sub would be about the only place that a godly ATI boy wouldn't have to worry about a female superior (unless they've gotten female officers on board now).

Yep there are female officers on subs and enlisted women are on their way.  There is no escaping the wimmins in the military now...

 

"Female officers have been assigned to SSGNs and SSBNs since 2011 and started to integrate the fast attack submarine Minnesota last fall and the USS Virginia this spring.

The enlisted women selected will begin to report to Michigan in fiscal 2016. In addition, some of the alternate sailors "may be called upon within 90 days to fill an assignment on USS Michigan if a primary selectee does not pass their submarine physical or are otherwise determined to be ineligible for assignment onboard submarines." (from the Navy Times)

[Coconut Flan]

And we're over halfway through fiscal 2016 so there should be some on the subs by now.

[crawfishgirl]

Regarding the disaster relief - while they were going through their Alert 'drills' in Big Sandy last week, Houston was experiencing major flooding issues with 17 to 20 inches of rain on one night in certain areas of the city.  There were many people who needed to be rescued, evacuation centers were opened, and now there are groups organizing flood relief efforts to help the impacted families.  Since Big Sandy is only about 4 hours from Houston, it would have been a good opportunity for them to actually use their search and rescue skills to help others.  

However, I suspect that in reality, their skills would not have actually been helpful, and they would have just been in the way of the real first responders.  But for all of their talk, it's a shame that they couldn't even pretend to help a nearby city.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

Just like some ATI/IBLP families allow jeans for girls at home  or allow them to work or go to college, some allow military. Or the simple fact that the guy is of age and managed to get a GED and score well on the tests there's nothing his folks can do.