Jessa, Ben, and Spurgeon part 5

[nst]

Just now, Ungodly Grandma said:

It can't be easy to keep all those kidults free from outside influences. One more step to normalization? One less layer of crazy.

you never saw Derick do this  

 

[Ungodly Grandma]

Just now, nst said:

you never saw Derick do this  

 

Of course, Derick left the country, so who knows what he is up to. Maybe salsa dancing with visiting SOS ladies.

[nst]

Just now, Ungodly Grandma said:

Of course, Derick left the country, so who knows what he is up to. Maybe salsa dancing with visiting SOS ladies.

and the funny thing is both SIL's are just bat shit crazy 

one looks like he is running from the mob 

and other displays all on his body and goes to secular concerts 

who could have predicted that ?

[Ungodly Grandma]

1 minute ago, nst said:

and the funny thing is both SIL's are just bat shit crazy 

one looks like he is running from the mob 

and other displays all on his body and goes to secular concerts 

who could have predicted that ?

Not Jim Bob, that's for sure! Josh may be relieved that he is not the only threat to the brand anymore. 

[Chickenbutt]

I think that JB will not have an issue with Ben and the whole music thing. JB's morals and values only hold true when money is not involved. Ben goes to a concert=storyline for Counting On=mo' money, mo' money, mo' money.

[CreationMuseumSeasonPass]

Remember Amy's wedding, the whole Duggar clan left early before the drinking and dancing started. If I was Ben, that would have grated on my nerves. He's an adult, but his father in law won't let him be around ebil alcohol and the devil's music with a beat. Talk about infantilizing.

[xlurker]

On 4/13/2016 at 8:07 AM, 19 cats and counting said:

I've been catcalled in sweatpants, aka the least sexy garmet worn by mainstream people (aka not fundies so no frumpers).  

I was catcalled when I was a HUGE 8 1/2 months pregnant, waddling down the street.  I said "Thank you!"    By that time in pregnancy you take whatever you can get! LOL

[lascuba]

As a married "man," would Ben even be required to have an accountability partner? I would think unless he's been caught doing something like Josh has, he can come and go as he pleases, but I can't keep track of what these people believe at any given time. 

 

[Handmaiden of Dog]

I honestly cannot picture Jessa going anywhere on her own at night unless it is to the TTH or to a crazy Sierra party and in both cases she would bring Spurge.

I can see now that even though Bin was raised in a very religious home, he was not raised in a Gothard home so there are going to be more clashes than I was expecting.  For example, I bet Spurge is going to be allowed to play sports and to have friends who are not siblings.  Because that is a normal thing to do! gasp

Sometimes I forget what a weird upbringing the Duggar children really had and I have to remind myself that so much of what they endured is not normal-- even for fundies.  Bin might allow his daughters to have short hair!  He might decide to encourage them to read other books besides the Bible.  Maybe they will be allowed to watch TV and listen to contemporary music and dance. It will be interesting to see which parent has more control over the children, will they be raised as Gothard Quiverfuls or will they be Calvinists? Stay tuned.

[EmCatlyn]

45 minutes ago, Handmaiden of Dog said:

I honestly cannot picture Jessa going anywhere on her own at night unless it is to the TTH or to a crazy Sierra party and in both cases she would bring Spurge.

I can see now that even though Bin was raised in a very religious home, he was not raised in a Gothard home so there are going to be more clashes than I was expecting.  For example, I bet Spurge is going to be allowed to play sports and to have friends who are not siblings.  Because that is a normal thing to do! gasp

Sometimes I forget what a weird upbringing the Duggar children really had and I have to remind myself that so much of what they endured is not normal-- even for fundies.  Bin might allow his daughters to have short hair!  He might decide to encourage them to read other books besides the Bible.  Maybe they will be allowed to watch TV and listen to contemporary music and dance. It will be interesting to see which parent has more control over the children, will they be raised as Gothard Quiverfuls or will they be Calvinists? Stay tuned.

The real question is whether Ben will at some point be ready to get a job and take Jessa away from Duggartown.  I think that if they could be financially independent from JB and not suffer a sharp drop in standard of living, Ben and Jessa could be perfectly happy "fundie lite" with a Calvinist bend (because Ben is the headship and because Jessa would like to think of herself as part of an elite that has been saved).

Fundie-lite they could have a "small family" (3-5 kids) and send the kids to a Christian school instead of homeschooling.  Fundie-lite, Jessa could work part-time, maybe even get some more education.  They could all listen to contemporary music so long as it was "moral," watch "clean" tv shows, etc.

Probably the marriage would still have problems, but I suspect when she got the hang of it, Jessa would be happier fundie-lite and they might end up making it work.

The big "IF" however is whether Ben can grow up and break away from Duggarland before they become really resentful of each other.  

[anotherone]

On ‎4‎/‎14‎/‎2016 at 8:26 AM, Cleopatra7 said:

Since JB and Michelle married as teens, the J'kids probably see teen marriage as a good thing, since it means you get to be an adult earlier. The fact that Josh was engaged to the Holt girl as a pretty young teen suggests to me that JB and Michelle wanted him married ASAP. Plus Marjorie was also quite young during her brief courtship with Josiah and the Duggars didn't have a problem with that. I'm just surprised that the media gives the Duggars a pass on these super young marriages, since I doubt they'd be so blasé if one of the Jenner girls, for example, decided to marry some random guy they just met, but when the Duggars do teen marriage, we're supposed to believe it's "wholesome."

But it's it kinda more fun to stay a kid as long as possible?    How did they miss that memo?

[Sundaymorning]

3 minutes ago, anotherone said:

But it's it kinda more fun to stay a kid as long as possible?    How did they miss that memo?

Not in the fundie world. You can see the difference between the Duggar sisters. Those who are married get to lead their own life, have their own house (while their sisters are raising their siblings and are stuck sharing a bedroom with six remaining sisters, four of them are 10 and under), and while they theoretically have to obey their husband, they overall have much more freedom and peace than they had when they weren't married.

[Cleopatra7]

2 minutes ago, anotherone said:

But it's it kinda more fun to stay a kid as long as possible?    How did they miss that memo?

The thing is though is that the Duggars and families like them claim not to believe in adolescence. In Gothardism, you become an adult at fourteen and phase out of whatever passed for education and start doing your gender assigned work full time. The J'slaves have been doing adult work since they were young children. JD and Joe seem to have been doing various odd jobs for JB since the first show. I think they weren't shown much, not because they're particularly uncharismatic, but because it would show how little the Duggar parents value education by having their teenage sons be indentured servants for them rather than go to school. Despite the no adolescence belief, all the J'kidults sound very immature for their ages, probably because they were put on a very developmentally inappropriate path. They work like adults but are treated like children in many aspects and not allowed to broaden their social or intellectual horizons.

[anotherone]

On ‎4‎/‎14‎/‎2016 at 9:23 AM, Cleopatra7 said:

The J'kidults are part of a collective unit where individuality doesn't exist, and where the parents micromanage everyone's lives. Even the J'kidult spouses have to join this collective, and many young fundies just don't want to do that.

So Jessa is "four of nineteen"?  

On ‎4‎/‎15‎/‎2016 at 1:53 AM, bingbangboom said:

Can you imagine how many times Jessa would be hit on and cat called by many a sketchy folk (men and women!!) in front of BinSeewizzle Jesus BarSpitter? I'm guessing their reactions would range from confusion, to shock, to fear and such behavior from anyone towards Jessa in that regard would cause Benye's brain to explode.

 I would give up watching tv and move to DangerousInnerCity STL just to watch it all happen, on repeat.

 

She'd have to realize that for all the "modest" dressing they harp on, skirts, long curly hair hanging free, and lots of makeup are considered by us heathens as more alluring than a ponytail and loose jeans or sweatpants.

[artdecades]

19 hours ago, HereticHick said:

I can't get this tumblr to load--but do they mean Lecrae?  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lecrae

He performed at John Brown University in Siloam Springs AR  yesterday (April 14). Siloam Springs is only about 15 miles from the Duggars. I believe Josh owned a house there once.

http://www.jbu.edu/news/press_releases/?id=21615

Wait, this guy has worked with the Obama administration. He spoke out against social injustice after Michael Brown's death. He was in a movie with Nick Offerman! Granted, it was a "christian" movie, but NICK OFFERMAN. Do you think if the Duggars saw something like this they would even realize it was making fun of them?

 

 

Just being exposed to these different people is so unDuggarlike. Lecrae is christian but he seems to be more the type that the Duggars think are going to hell.

[anotherone]

23 hours ago, Kira said:

Ben was at a Lacrae concert with Krista and someone named Mitchell. I don't think Jessa was there.

http://duggars.tumblr.com/post/142837530765/ben-at-a-lacrae-concert#post-notes

 

 

 

The picture is gone, any other link?

[nastyhobbitses]

12 minutes ago, Cleopatra7 said:

The thing is though is that the Duggars and families like them claim not to believe in adolescence. In Gothardism, you become an adult at fourteen and phase out of whatever passed for education and start doing your gender assigned work full time. The J'slaves have been doing adult work since they were young children. JD and Joe seem to have been doing various odd jobs for JB since the first show. I think they weren't shown much, not because they're particularly uncharismatic, but because it would show how little the Duggar parents value education by having their teenage sons be indentured servants for them rather than go to school. Despite the no adolescence belief, all the J'kidults sound very immature for their ages, probably because they were put on a very developmentally inappropriate path. They work like adults but are treated like children in many aspects and not allowed to broaden their social or intellectual horizons.

That's something I find so fascinating about Jessa and Jill. They both act years younger than their chronological ages, yet they're wives and mothers. I know that humanity got on for years without "teen culture" and many cultures still do, but the way our society is set up, I think it's really good to have a transitional period where you're still under a modicum of parental/institutional (school) control, but you have a bit more freedom to go and be stupid for a while, learn not to be stupid, and then start doing adult things in a not-stupid way because you got all your stupid ya-yas out beforehand. Jessa and Jill were treated (at least on an intellectual and social level) like they were 10-maybe 12 until they were in their 20s, and then expected to magically be able to handle marriage, sex, and motherhood immediately after kissing a guy they've never spoken to one-on-one. I really do think that the way they act now (though they both seem to be maturing, at least from what I can see) is a result of having to skip that interim phase; you go from essentially an overgrown child to a full-fledged adult in the span of a wedding ceremony. Ben had a little more opportunity to be a teenager, and I think that some of his behavior now is sort of a Twenties Life Crisis; having had a slightly more secular upbringing, he knows full well what he's missing, and he kind of wants it.

[Drala]

On 4/15/2016 at 4:39 PM, Kira said:

Ben was at a Lacrae concert with Krista and someone named Mitchell. I don't think Jessa was there.

http://duggars.tumblr.com/post/142837530765/ben-at-a-lacrae-concert#post-notes

Who is Krista?

[Kira]

30 minutes ago, Drala said:

Who is Krista?

She's a Duggar family friend .

http://www.freejinger.org/search/?type=all&q=krista

[Mercer]

1 hour ago, nastyhobbitses said:

I really do think that the way they act now (though they both seem to be maturing, at least from what I can see) is a result of having to skip that interim phase; you go from essentially an overgrown child to a full-fledged adult in the span of a wedding ceremony.

I agree. While it's true that adolescence as it's defined in the United States is a relatively modern concept, there has almost always been some sort of independence process by which a child becomes an adult through taking on more responsibility and being expected to start making good decisions, however a particular culture defines what good decision-making entails.

The Duggar kids never had that. They were constantly supervised (by another sibling if not by a parent) so they never learned to be accountable for themselves with no one watching. They were never allowed to make independent decisions out of fear they'd make bad ones, so they never learned to make any decisions at all. 

It's not just the rushed adulthood that made the Duggar kids into such floundering adults. It's that combined with the extreme sheltering of their childhoods. Parents have to loosen their grip a little to allow kids to mature into grownups, and the Duggar parents never did that, so the next generation grew into chronological adults who still lacked basic adulthood skills. That's a parenting fail, not just a difference of perspective about the purpose of adolescence.

[socalrules]

The funny thing is that Jessa said she listens to classical music and hymns, yet I have never heard of any of the Duggars going to listen to any music that doesn't involve Duggar performances. Does anyone really believe that the Duggars are playing any music at home? Ever? I don't think it would even occur to any of ththe Duggars to go to a classical music concert or do pretty much anything that isn't promoting Gothard. None of the sisters will just decide to go to dinner by themselves one night or just got to a movie, even a Gothard approved movie. Everything they do is planned and approved ahead of time. 

[Honeysuckle]

I think things like this are going to help the younger generation of Duggars question some of their parents' philosophies. They aren't like JB and Michelle who were making an informed choice about giving up various activities. They simply never got to experience them. So, Jessa, raised without even the slightest chance of going to a concert, marries Ben, who goes to a concert and...still loves Jesus and doesn't immediately turn worldly or whatever it is they think concerts and interaction with outsiders will do. That's going to cause more questioning and possible eventual drift than a bad outcome would. So I think it's great that Ben is exploring mainstream Christian music and attending a concert.

He's still a tool, though.

[Dandruff]

10 hours ago, nst said:

and the funny thing is both SIL's are just bat shit crazy 

one looks like he is running from the mob 

and other displays all on his body and goes to secular concerts 

who could have predicted that ?

Kelly Bates must be laughing herself into a hernia.

[Kira]

Some of the comments in this thread(about Ben's education, the Seewalds possbly moving to Chicago and Ben attending a concert) are ....weird    .

We would be so happy if any other fundie attended a concert. We seem so concerned and sad(?) when the Duggars/Dillards/Seewalds do normal things. Good for Ben. He seems to love Christian rap. I think it's great he went to a concert without Jessa.  Christian rap seems to be popular with fundies, including friends of the Duggars. 

I don't think Jessa or JB are upset. I'm sure Jessa knew he was going to attend this concert.  I never believed JB completely controls his sons-in laws or the married couples. Jill and Derick have done normal, secular things. Even the unmarried children have learned some secular music are participate in secular activities.  

 

[Jucifer]

22 hours ago, Hera said:

Seriously, though, this issue has come up recently on my house a couple of times. Zeus and I regularly do things with friends/engage in hobbies/go do whatever without the other, including, on occasion, weekends away.  But apparently, other people don't do this? In the last two weeks, two sets of couple friends have announced that they "don't do things separately." Am I the weird one? 

Mr J is out of town visiting his family. He will be back next week. 

Meanwhile I'm making jewelry and eating Reese's minis while watching kitschy 70s movies.

I love my husband but time apart is pure gold