Anna Duggar and the M kids part 6

[quiverofdoubt]

3 hours ago, missegeno said:

Oh, but it's just that they didn't discover Gothard and the Pearls until little Joshley was a few years old. Maybe they thought his life had too much free thought from the beginning, and expect that it was more effectively blanket trained out of the rest.

I was just thinking this last night. I bet michelle blames herself for not blanket training the curiosity out of josh.  His touching 5 girls? just a boys curiosity. Exploring porn? just a man's curiosity. Cheating? again, curiosity.  Blanket training cures kids of that little curiosity problem. But she didn't blanket train till after the twins i believe. Her not fully training josh according to pearl/gothard from day one must be what's at fault.  It's not the cult system that failed, it was her.  

 

*those aren't my beliefs, obviously, but i wonder if those are thoughts michelle has late at night when trying to figure out what went wrong.

[ClaraOswin]

It's just so disgusting. Here I am over here trying to encourage my son's curiosity with the world. Michelle would die of shock.

[Chickenbutt]

1 hour ago, quiverofdoubt said:

*those aren't my beliefs, obviously, but i wonder if those are thoughts michelle has late at night when trying to figure out what went wrong.

That would assume that Michelle wonders about things like that. She's just a girl and shouldn't worry her pretty little head about things she can't possibly understand.

[quiverofdoubt]

True @Chickenbutt, very true.  But she is conditioned to find what sin is being punished when something bad happens.  You had a m/s? oh, well, how did you anger god? Your son molested his sisters? you must not have been fulfilling your motherly duties to him in some way. Perhaps you didn't beat him down hard enough, or discipline him enough. The mother is the umbrella for the children.  Your husband cheated? you must not have been fulfilling your wifely duties. 

sad and sick.

[Chickenbutt]

1 minute ago, quiverofdoubt said:

True @Chickenbutt, very true.  But she is conditioned to find what sin is being punished when something bad happens.  You had a m/s? oh, well, how did you anger god? Your son molested his sisters? you must not have been fulfilling your motherly duties to him in some way. Perhaps you didn't beat him down hard enough, or discipline him enough. The mother is the umbrella for the children.  Your husband cheated? you must not have been fulfilling your wifely duties. 

sad and sick.

But in her world it is JB who is telling her what to think. She has no independent thoughts of her own. I'm sure JB has given her all the thoughts she needs to have. Son molested sisters? Curiousity, nothing more, nothing less...move on. Husband cheated? You didn't put out enough for him....move on. JB is not, IMHO, gonna let Michelle have one single independent thought. Heaven forbid she figure out maybe she and JB are at fault.

[griffin]

I want to give an opinion but am trying to keep it from being x- rated. ( use your imagination). Anna can lose weight, clean the house and wear all the makeup she wants to keep Josh happy/interested (Brazilian wax, anyone?). BUT , he has now read about, seen and done things that she doesn't know exist. She can "make herself available" 24 hours a day, but think about what he will be imagining and/or remembering while they "hey,hey,hey". She can't compete with the women and images he has had. Think about it, how creative can she be? I don't see how he will be content with vanilla when he knows about all the other 30 flavors she's ignorant about. Is she too stupid to realize that he will always be fantasizing about someone else/porn? Will he have to teach her new techniques? How boring for him. It's hard to explain, am I even spitting this out right? ( haha. . is SHE spitting out?.)

[Catholic and NOT 'ebil']

27 minutes ago, griffin said:

I want to give an opinion but am trying to keep it from being x- rated. ( use your imagination). Anna can lose weight, clean the house and wear all the makeup she wants to keep Josh happy/interested (Brazilian wax, anyone?). BUT , he has now read about, seen and done things that she doesn't know exist. She can "make herself available" 24 hours a day, but think about what he will be imagining and/or remembering while they "hey,hey,hey". She can't compete with the women and images he has had. Think about it, how creative can she be? I don't see how he will be content with vanilla when he knows about all the other 30 flavors she's ignorant about. Is she too stupid to realize that he will always be fantasizing about someone else/porn? Will he have to teach her new techniques? How boring for him. It's hard to explain, am I even spitting this out right? ( haha. . is SHE spitting out?.)

This! I think you explained yourself clearly and I couldn't agree more!!!  There is nothing that can 'unring the bell' that Smuggs ding'd when he went down his rabbit hole. He can't 'unsee' those images or forget the other womens bodies, if he ever physically cheated.  

I will go so far as to opine that if Josh were to ever try and 'add sprinkles' to their vanilla bedroom antics, Anna would run back to JB and Meechelle with the concern that Smuggs is allowing The Devil to gather twigs in his heart again. You know, those twigs become the timber Satan uses to 'build fortresses.' 

 

[socalrules]

I don't think he can teach her new techniques because she knows he either got them off the internet or from his cheating. It isn't like he learned them in previous relationships before they met. She can refuse to do it by saying she isn't refusing her husband, she is refusing the devil's techniques. 

I agree he will never be happy with Vanilla now that he has sampled 31 flavors. This doesn't just apply to sex, it applies to the freedoms he enjoyed before the scandal and the prison he is in now. Think about it. Working for the hate group allowed him to fly around the world, sleep in hotels alone, eat out wherever he wanted and always have a reason as to why he was late, on his phone or using his computer. He got to wear big boy pants and live like an adult, however much a disaster that turned out to be. Now, every single thing he does will be monitored, interpreted and criticized. If he is 10 minutes late or takes too long at Home Depot, he will have to explain himself because it will be thought he is out doing something devilish. It is going to get old real fast. 

[Sundaymorning]

7 minutes ago, socalrules said:

I don't think he can teach her new techniques because she knows he either got them off the internet or from his cheating. It isn't like he learned them in previous relationships before they met. She can refuse to do it by saying she isn't refusing her husband, she is refusing the devil's techniques. 

I agree he will never be happy with Vanilla now that he has sampled 31 flavors. This doesn't just apply to sex, it applies to the freedoms he enjoyed before the scandal and the prison he is in now. Think about it. Working for the hate group allowed him to fly around the world, sleep in hotels alone, eat out wherever he wanted and always have a reason as to why he was late, on his phone or using his computer. He got to wear big boy pants and live like an adult, however much a disaster that turned out to be. Now, every single thing he does will be monitored, interpreted and criticized. If he is 10 minutes late or takes too long at Home Depot, he will have to explain himself because it will be thought he is out doing something devilish. It is going to get old real fast. 

I absolutely agree. It's not just about the fact that their sex life before the scandal bored him. If that was the only issue, things could be fixed easily. But I'm pretty sure Anna could learn 30 more flavours, and Josh still wouldn't be really satisfied.

In D.C., Josh got a glimpse of a life most of us take for granted. Surely, he might have lived an even more luxurious lifestyle with all his travels than many of us do, but basically, we have so many freedoms we aren't even aware of, that Joshly never got to experience before. From having a real, grown up job, to looking at whatever we want on the internet, to going to eat out with friends and so on.

Now, he is back with his cult family who will monitore every move like they did before he was married. Even 30 new flavours of sex won't fix that.

[actuallyjessica]

8 hours ago, Sundaymorning said:

I absolutely agree. It's not just about the fact that their sex life before the scandal bored him. If that was the only issue, things could be fixed easily. But I'm pretty sure Anna could learn 30 more flavours, and Josh still wouldn't be really satisfied.

In D.C., Josh got a glimpse of a life most of us take for granted. Surely, he might have lived an even more luxurious lifestyle with all his travels than many of us do, but basically, we have so many freedoms we aren't even aware of, that Joshly never got to experience before. From having a real, grown up job, to looking at whatever we want on the internet, to going to eat out with friends and so on.

Now, he is back with his cult family who will monitore every move like they did before he was married. Even 30 new flavours of sex won't fix that.

My theory: I think that's why he was kept in Jesus Jail for as long as he was - he wouldn't bow down and comply. He didn't want to go back to his vanilla life and wife. Not because he doesn't care for his wife and kids, but because he got a taste of the outside world - the one he had been (not so) carefully sheltered from all his life. I personally give him 12 months before he either leaves his wife and kids and makes a run for it on his own if Anna won't follow her headship into a mainstream life, or they all follow and they leave the cult all together and really try and make it work.
I think of it this way: He was like a fat kid forced on a diet of carrot sticks and celery and kept in a cage. One day he escaped the cage and ran to a bakery and had a taste of Devils Food Cake and lost all self control. That's the thing with fundies, they don't actually instill self control, they just eliminate all outside interference and when the fundies get a taste of the outside world and see its not as bad as their parents taught them, they want more and more and more. NIKE, for instance.
Oh and also how the J'slaves aren't really allowed to hang out with Amy because they may be tempted. Maybe if they let their kids be around normal people and do normal things, their self control would grow and their faith would become stronger. Or it wouldn't, and that's what they're scared of. And that's why the Duggars force the lifestyle and religion on their kids, because they know if they had the option - their faith wouldn't keep them in skirts, no TVs and from having friends, jobs and college and kissing before marriage.

I don't know why they're so against Amy. She is still Christian, so what if she enjoys the odd glass of wine or had pre-marital sex and dated. She's normal! I think if the rest of the Duggar kids were allowed to do the same thing, and you know, have their own personalities and lives maybe Josh wouldn't have ended up like he did. I just hope they learn and let the rest of their kids (and adults!) have freedom.

I 100% blame Jim Bob and Michelle for what Josh has done.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

3 minutes ago, actuallyjessica said:

My theory: I think that's why he was kept in Jesus Jail for as long as he was - he wouldn't bow down and comply. He didn't want to go back to his vanilla life and wife. Not because he doesn't care for his wife and kids, but because he got a taste of the outside world - the one he had been (not so) carefully sheltered from all his life. I personally give him 12 months before he either leaves his wife and kids and makes a run for it on his own if Anna won't follow her headship into a mainstream life, or they all follow and they leave the cult all together and really try and make it work.
I think of it this way: He was like a fat kid forced on a diet of carrot sticks and celery and kept in a cage. One day he escaped the cage and ran to a bakery and had a taste of Devils Food Cake and lost all self control. That's the thing with fundies, they don't actually instill self control, they just eliminate all outside interference and when the fundies get a taste of the outside world and see its not as bad as their parents taught them, they want more and more and more. NIKE, for instance.
Oh and also how the J'slaves aren't really allowed to hang out with Amy because they may be tempted. Maybe if they let their kids be around normal people and do normal things, their self control would grow and their faith would become stronger. Or it wouldn't, and that's what they're scared of. And that's why the Duggars force the lifestyle and religion on their kids, because they know if they had the option - their faith wouldn't keep them in skirts, no TVs and from having friends, jobs and college and kissing before marriage.

I don't know why they're so against Amy. She is still Christian, so what if she enjoys the odd glass of wine or had pre-marital sex and dated. She's normal! I think if the rest of the Duggar kids were allowed to do the same thing, and you know, have their own personalities and lives maybe Josh wouldn't have ended up like he did. I just hope they learn and let the rest of their kids (and adults!) have freedom.

I 100% blame Jim Bob and Michelle for what Josh has done.

Wasn't Josh in Jesus Jail for the prescribed length? He was there for 6 months. 

I don't blame Michelle and JB for what Josh has done in his marriage. It's his own damned fault. He could have left the cult if he was unhappy. He could have divorced Anna if he didn't love her. He could have kept his dick in his pants. He is a fully fledged adult.

NO ONE forced Josh to cheat. He acted on his own free will. He willingly and freely hurt Anna, his kids, and the rest of his family. Michelle and JB had nothing to do with that. 

[nst]

8 hours ago, Sundaymorning said:

 

Now, he is back with his cult family who will monitore every move like they did before he was married. Even 30 new flavours of sex won't fix that.

I can't imagine being monitored like that all - He needs help still imo - in the "outside" world 

[season of life]

I think Michelle and JB had a hand in how Josh turned out due to their ridiculous parenting tactics, but in the end, it was Josh who molested young girls and cheated on his wife. It is not 100% on his parents.

Side note: Y'all are killing me with this bedroom talk. I immaturely giggle when I hear you guys using phrases like "adding sprinkles" and "31 flavors." 

[quiverofdoubt]

I'm on the nature + nurture stance here.  Josh is a douche bag who should be taking full responsibility for his behavior and not blaming others.

BUT his behavior is not at all surprising in regards to his upbringing. @whatactuallyjessica said is right about the sheltering, they never get a chance to practice self control. But added to that: they are taught self control as children. Michelle thinks she does that by making them sit quietly with nothing to do, and similar tactics. But that's not self discipline/control. That's listening to an authority.  Self discipline is giving up something you want, for something better. Like NOT hooking up with women outside your marriage, and instead doing the hard work of improving your relationship with your wife.

Also, the extreme form of obedience they instill in the kids kills any inner sense of right and wrong. They are taught to obey, instantly, the first time, with a smile, to any direction. Kind of like the nazi soldiers, and look where that ended up.  The kids stop listening to their inner voice that is supposed to guide them. That little voice saying that feels wrong! we shouldn't do this and the big voice says shut up and do it, or i'll get punished.  Eventually that inner voice gets drowned out.  The only moral guide josh has as an adult is Gothard's teachings.  And lets face it, those aren't so hot.

The same goes for their emotional life, but someone with personal experience in a similar cult posted about their experience being unable to feel, understand or express emotions, and the therapy they've needed to help overcome that. 

So basically, yes, josh screwed up big time and is responsible for his behavior.  But I am in no way surprised that he turned out the way he did, either. Or that when exposed to a wide world without direct gothard oversite he started making horrible decisions. He no longer had a moral compass.    Despite all the terrible parenting some of the kids may have survived with theirs intact, or enough of a sense of right and wrong, to make it in the outside world. if they hook up with the right outside influences that can help them understand all the damage done.  But josh did not.

[ksgranola1]

Aside from N.O. & LV,,Dc is another Sin City. All the cheating those senators & gov. mucky-mucks go into, I'm sure more than one took Josh aside & showed him some new tricks.

[QuiverDance]

New Orleans has one street with a few strip clubs in it.  It is no Las Vegas in terms of strippers/burlesque/etc.  

IDK why... I always get super defensive about that.  Sorry.  

[Diggingupdirt]

16 hours ago, actuallyjessica said:

Oh and also how the J'slaves aren't really allowed to hang out with Amy because they may be tempted. Maybe if they let their kids be around normal people and do normal things, their self control would grow and their faith would become stronger. Or it wouldn't, and that's what they're scared of. And that's why the Duggars force the lifestyle and religion on their kids, because they know if they had the option - their faith wouldn't keep them in skirts, no TVs and from having friends, jobs and college and kissing before marriage.

I don't know why they're so against Amy. She is still Christian, so what if she enjoys the odd glass of wine or had pre-marital sex and dated. She's normal! I think if the rest of the Duggar kids were allowed to do the same thing, and you know, have their own personalities and lives maybe Josh wouldn't have ended up like he did. I just hope they learn and let the rest of their kids (and adults!) have freedom

They don't allow the kidults to hang out with Amy because that would mean that DQ and Boob would have to trust their "children". Obviously they do not trust any of their kids, If they trusted them they would be allowed out of the house without accountability partners. They raised them to to ATI/BLP/Gothard follows but imho DQ and Boob don't believe the training works 100% (even before Josh gate 1.0/2.0) or they would trust in their children and their upbringing.  I think they know the system is flawed and as long as they can keep the kidults isolated they know they will continue to follow what they were taught. Unfortunately for the other kids their fears most likely came true when Joshgate 2.0 came out. 

 

*all speculation on my part but i believe this is how they think

[Sundaymorning]

I don't think anyone in fundieland truly believes that the system really works. Why else would most of them keep their kids on such a short leash? We are talking about adults in their 20s who aren't allowed to go out of the house without a "buddy", let alone to go on a date in a public space without any "chaperones". Even their phone calls and texts to their significant other are monitored.

And it's not like Boob and J'Chelle were the ones who came up with these rules, other fundies are even more strict. At least, the Duggarlings get to hold hands after they are engaged.

Fundies basically keep their kids on a very short leash and then go bragging how awesome their parenting is, since their kids are soo well behaved, and aren't out drinking and smoking and having premarital sex like those ebil heathens. I really wonder what would happen if you took some of the kidults away from their families and would give them a job and a flat in a bigger city.

[WhyNotJulie]

Not sure if this has been posted yet, so I'll just leave this here...
http://www.inquisitr.com/2885523/anna-duggar-treating-josh-like-hero-returning-from-war-losing-weight-for-him/

Edit: Upon further reflection it seems like this has been discussed already. I apologize, please don't hate me haha

[Bad Wolf]

You have to be retired to keep up with FJ. @WhyNotJulie

[EmCatlyn]

7 hours ago, QuiverDance said:

New Orleans has one street with a few strip clubs in it.  It is no Las Vegas in terms of strippers/burlesque/etc.  

IDK why... I always get super defensive about that.  Sorry.  

New Orleans is still living down its old reputation from before there was a Las Vegas.  Also, remember that all that a lot of people know about New Orleans is Mardi Gras.

(Lived in New Orleans for about eight years and still have friends there. Totally agree that it is not exactly a den of iniquity.)

[Trynn]

Maybe, but there are enough sites calling him a potential child molester it might be hard to invite him into your school.  Plus the Duggars have played up the idea that they are rich and successful it would be h as rd to justify scholarships for them when there is real poverty in Arkansas.

I was taking about elementary schools for the kids, not for him. And yes, they are richer than most, but some schools might overlook that for the celebrity status of the duggar kids. Remember, in the christian world, at least certain pockets, Josh is still on that pedestal. And some may even do it out of pity for the Ms.

[DuggarWatch]

14 minutes ago, Trynn said:

I was taking about elementary schools for the kids, not for him. And yes, they are richer than most, but some schools might overlook that for the celebrity status of the duggar kids. Remember, in the christian world, at least certain pockets, Josh is still on that pedestal. And some may even do it out of pity for the Ms.

Jim Bob, his sister Deanna and niece Amy went to the local, private Christian school.  But that school, apparently, isn't good enough for the Duggar kids so they must be homeschooled.  None of the local churches were acceptable either, so they were homechurched.  None of the neighborhood children were acceptable playmates, so the kids can only hang out with each other except when they get to go to homeschool conferences and hang out with other isolated children.  The Duggar kids are stunted in so many ways. 

[Toothfairy]

Jimchelle need to keep their kids isolated. Can't have any minds of their own. Even homeschoolers are active in their community. Some take college courses and coop. They interact with other people. Not jimchelle. They want too much control. What harm is joining the girl/boy scouts or meeting other homeschoolers. 

[missegeno]

New Orleans has one street with a few strip clubs in it.  It is no Las Vegas in terms of strippers/burlesque/etc.  

IDK why... I always get super defensive about that.  Sorry.  

I think the NO perception is more about Mardi Gras and drinking/revelry than about strip clubs. I never thought of it as a nudity destination, but certainly as a party city.

As for strip clubs, LV may be famous for them, but Portland Oregon has the most strip clubs per capita (per resident) of the country. They are seriously everywhere in that city.

Side note, but did anybody else watch the show Preachers' Daughters? Most of the girls on it were just wild teens looking for a good time, but I really felt for the NO girl. She seemed like somebody who needed help but wasn't getting the right kind. :-(