Anna Duggar and the M kids part 6

[OrchidBlossom]

44 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

Re a mention up-thread that Josh was into girl-on-girl sex:  How do we know? All we know for a fact is that he had two AM accounts, a fake Facebook and a fake OK Cupid.  He admitted to being hooked on porn, but did he say what kind?  We don't even know for sure about the strip clubs or Danica.

We also don't really know that Anna would take suggestions about spicing up their love life as coming from Satan.  I could just as easily see her asking Josh for suggestions on how to please him.  And if he suggested bubble baths for two or suggested scented candles, I would think she might even like it.

The truth is that we have no idea what ATI Fundies do in the privacy of marriage. We know the results (babies) and we know that their teachings favor the male on top position, but the latter is no guarantee that a helpmeet would not happily go along with her headship's desire for variety in positions and <ahem> methods of achieving sexual release... so long as pregnancy is not being prevented.  

But as to trying to envision just how far Anna would go to please Josh . . .  I won't go there.  It is none of our business and, besides, there just isn't enough brain bleach.  

 

 

One of the Ashley Madison accounts (I think, I sort of get them all confused) specified what he was "looking for" including (as an example that I remember distinctly) "someone I can teach". Perhaps "girl on girl" was also listed. I know fellatio was. 

I certainly think that Anna would take some love life spice suggestions well, as I mentioned above. I certainly think candles or roses are well within the bounds of an ATI sex life. But my understanding (and there are lots of recovering fundies willing to share the intimates out there, though of course each marriage and each person is different!) is that different positions are probably okay (though for an uneducated and inexperienced woman, perhaps a little scary) but methods of sexual release, sex toys, etc probably start to venture into the realm of "unnatural" and therefore of Satan. Again, every couple will be different though.
I'm not personally envisioning (or wanting to envision!) what Anna and Josh may do or not do. But I do think its fair to speculate that Anna is extremely limited in her comfort zone due to her upbringing, and that she may also feel very cautious about new experiences given Josh's predilection for "temptation".

[Dandruff]

I don't know how Anna can stand to even look at him, much less anything else.

Poor woman was raised to believe what she was told though.  Since she was told that the Lord wanted her with Josh, I guess she figures she has a job to do - like it or not. 

Maybe her father together with Jim Bob could convince her that the Lord changed his mind...but we know that ain't gonna happen.

[Coconut Flan]

Quite the irony I found tonight.  This is a book Anna's father wrote:Breaking the Bondage of Addictions: Uncontrollable Anger, Drug/Alcohol, Irrational Thinking, Sexual Sins

[actuallyjessica]

I always thought they were taught missionary was the only thing they could do, but of course who knows what they do behind closed doors - I doubt it's anything kinky like S&M, but cowgirl positions and oral sex (even if only used as foreplay and not end game) I would imagine would be OK, right? If I had to only have one type of sex and in one position never leading to any pleasure for me I'd never want to do it.... poor fundie wives.

[quiverofdoubt]

Personally I don't consider flowers and candles to be anything but romance stuff, not even borderline kinky stuff.  Josh's am account, or wherever he had the list of sexual interests, in no way read kinky to me. If he thought oral sex and shared baths were adventurous, it's clear how inexperienced he really was.  Most of his list were thinks typical couples either do regularly or have tried- and many would consider plain old vanilla.  I'm thinking his cult probably doesn't allow much experimentation there.  Which is sad, sex is one of the few fun things left on their ok list. No booze, no real movies, no decent tv, no mingling with people outside the cult.

[nst]

if he really put down shared baths - are you saying we don't think that he and Anna did that? 

because isn't that something everyone does when in a relationship

 

[quiverofdoubt]

13 minutes ago, nst said:

if he really put down shared baths - are you saying we don't think that he and Anna did that? 

because isn't that something everyone does when in a relationship

 

My bath tub is too small. It's like, the shortest tub you can get and my husband is over 6 foot. the both of us in there don't work anymore.  

i was assuming he was putting things down that he didn't get to do at home, things that were taboo. But i could be wrong there- maybe he was also adding in things he already did to pad it a bit.  The list was so unadventurous and vanilla it was funny. Especially if he thought that list would make him sound worldly and experienced.

[nst]

23 minutes ago, quiverofdoubt said:

My bath tub is too small. It's like, the shortest tub you can get and my husband is over 6 foot. the both of us in there don't work anymore.  

i was assuming he was putting things down that he didn't get to do at home, things that were taboo. But i could be wrong there- maybe he was also adding in things he already did to pad it a bit.  The list was so unadventurous and vanilla it was funny. Especially if he thought that list would make him sound worldly and experienced.

and here I thought these fundies didn't have any taboo lists regarding sex.  I thought whatever the headship wanted.  Like if Ben wanted to bring syrup into the bedroom he could

and Derick I can't picture anything 

[Screamapillar]

2 minutes ago, nst said:

and here I thought these fundies didn't have any taboo lists regarding sex.  I thought whatever the headship wanted.  Like if Ben wanted to bring syrup into the bedroom he could

and Derick I can't picture anything 

His Pistol Pete mascot outfit.

[nst]

2 minutes ago, Screamapillar said:

His Pistol Pete mascot outfit.

that thing is massive - ok how about the rings and sword -  

 

[Dandruff]

8 hours ago, Coconut Flan said:

Quite the irony I found tonight.  This is a book Anna's father wrote:Breaking the Bondage of Addictions: Uncontrollable Anger, Drug/Alcohol, Irrational Thinking, Sexual Sins

Irrational thinking?  I can't even imagine...

[DuggarWatch]

11 minutes ago, nst said:

and Derick I can't picture anything 

And that is probably as it should be. 

But the real reason is that you would probably have to listen to him giving a sermon first, and that would put you to sleep.

[nickelodeon]

Based on that one v-day instagram from Derick, I think that Gothardites "spice things up in the bedroom" with lifesavers and applejuice.

[ksgranola1]

9 hours ago, Coconut Flan said:

Quite the irony I found tonight.  This is a book Anna's father wrote:Breaking the Bondage of Addictions: Uncontrollable Anger, Drug/Alcohol, Irrational Thinking, Sexual Sins

Anna's father wrote a book?? I guess Oprah didn't read it.

 

[DuggarWatch]

22 minutes ago, ksgranola1 said:

Anna's father wrote a book?? I guess Oprah didn't read it.

So, he wrote the book on "sexual sins."  I guess Josh didn't read that one.  

[OrchidBlossom]

10 hours ago, actuallyjessica said:

I always thought they were taught missionary was the only thing they could do, but of course who knows what they do behind closed doors - I doubt it's anything kinky like S&M, but cowgirl positions and oral sex (even if only used as foreplay and not end game) I would imagine would be OK, right? If I had to only have one type of sex and in one position never leading to any pleasure for me I'd never want to do it.... poor fundie wives.

Cowgirl might be okay (but again given these poor women's education on sex it's probably scary, and they may not even know of it as possible), I can imagine they are iffy on oral sex as foreplay... if he accidentally ejaculates during then they've committed a sin. Different couples are probably different. Many may not even realize such an act is a possibility, remember lots of couples who aren't fundie royalty have extremely limited exposure to the world. 

Also remember that they are taught that women aren't really supposed to have sex drives or enjoy sex, they're supposed to enjoy submitting. Female sexual pleasure does not really enter the picture for them. Fundie women say they enjoy their sex lives, and I'm sure some of them do (some fundie dudes must care about whether their wives are having fun, like I could see Chad Paine being a pretty considerate lover since he is obviously over the moon for Erin Bates), but I think many of them say they enjoy it because to say otherwise would be embarrassing to their headship and/or rebellion. Part of it is ignorance (I mean how does a fundie figure out oral sex or the clitoris other than maybe by blind luck at some point?) and part of it is the way they are brought up. Women don't have sex drives + women must joyfully submit + it is rebellion to speak anything but glowingly of your husband + always be available to fulfill your headships needs = a lot of women who can't speak truthfully about sex and sexual desire.

[lascuba]

I'm with EmCatlyn that we really don't know what fundies get into in bed. There's no real way to tell with people in general...just with the people I know who talk about their sex lives, the kinkiest ones are often never the ones you'd expect that from. And I've often found that the loudest, brashest, "I'm so open minded and nothing shocks me," types are actually pretty tame in bed. 

I've said it before--Josh's AM profile was the most disappointing scandal I've ever read. But snark aside, it gave me the impression that what he wants is someone--not something--else. If it were me I would have been more emotionally devastated over the "bubble bath for two" than anything else, because holy crap what does that say about his feelings for me that out of all possible options he would request that on a site for sexual infidelity.  Anna could enthusiastically partake in every sexual fantasy Josh can come up with, and it wouldn't matter. Maybe he'll choose not to cheat again, but it will be because he'll be kept under close watch and he doesn't want to risk another scandal. At the end of the day, he's just not into her. Which, as much as I hate feeling even a twinge of sympathy for that turd, has to suck for both of them.

[NeverAFundie]

Question that I'm sure has been discussed a billion times here over the years, but would it be a sin to ejaculate during oral sex if the wife is already pregnant?  I would imagine that before the AM scandal, Anna seems as though she would have been fairly likely to consider some of the things Josh included in his profile.  But now?  I would think that for the rest of her life, she will worry that whatever boundaries she pushes won't be enough compared to what goes in the porn Josh watched, strip clubs, etc.

Also, count me in the group of people who think that some of these fundies (especially Chad Paine) could very well be engaging in Joshley-esque "non kink" like rose petals and shared baths.

[QuiverDance]

I think even couples who were raised in sexually repressive situations can learn to have mutually enjoyable sex, so it's probably not fair to speculate that all of their sex lives suck.  

[ksgranola1]

All of this must have occurred to Anna. It would explain that arrow-thru-the-gut look in her eyes.

She was his 1st girlfriend & now that's over, like any first girlfriend. He was ready to move on.

Except for M1, 2, 3, & 4.

[OrchidBlossom]

3 hours ago, NeverAFundie said:

Question that I'm sure has been discussed a billion times here over the years, but would it be a sin to ejaculate during oral sex if the wife is already pregnant?  I would imagine that before the AM scandal, Anna seems as though she would have been fairly likely to consider some of the things Josh included in his profile.  But now?  I would think that for the rest of her life, she will worry that whatever boundaries she pushes won't be enough compared to what goes in the porn Josh watched, strip clubs, etc.

Also, count me in the group of people who think that some of these fundies (especially Chad Paine) could very well be engaging in Joshley-esque "non kink" like rose petals and shared baths.

Probably depends on your interpretation of Genesis 38:10. My guess? Yeah it's probably still a sin to most fundies/Gothardites. I would venture that they are strict interpreters, that it is always a sin to spill your seed, that only sex which is of the sort that results in procreation is endorsed by Jesus. The question for them, I think, would not be whether it does or even can result in conception in that exact instance, but whether it is procreative style sex generally.

3 hours ago, QuiverDance said:

I think even couples who were raised in sexually repressive situations can learn to have mutually enjoyable sex, so it's probably not fair to speculate that all of their sex lives suck.  

I'm not, I'm just speculating that a larger proportion of their sex lives suck, not just because they were sexually repressed but because of the totality of the culture they were raised in. I mean if you were raised to believe women don't have sex drives, "mutually enjoyable" is a lot less likely to occur to you. And if it does, then you gotta convince your spouse to give it a go. And if you are both in on the idea, you have to figure out how to get it done without using the internet or porn or asking friends. All I'm saying is they are going through a lot of hurdles, especially if they are still in the fold because then they have to contend with their guilt because they're gonna be hearing a lot of lectures about what kind of sex is okay and isn't okay, and they'll probably be second guessing themselves a lot.

[DuggarWatch]

7 minutes ago, ksgranola1 said:

All of this must have occurred to Anna. It would explain that arrow-thru-the-gut look in her eyes.

She was his 1st girlfriend & now that's over, like any first girlfriend. He was ready to move on.

Except for M1, 2, 3, & 4.

Anna was the 2nd girlfriend.  Josh was engaged to someone else before Anna: Kaeleigh Holt.

[OrchidBlossom]

Question/ISB for everyone. I know some fundies actually believe the female orgasm is inherently evil outside of penis-vagina penetrative sex. Does anyone know if the Gothardites are in that camp? I mean I know Michelle has said she enjoys sex and they've all given lip service to the idea of enjoying sex within the marriage relationship, but I'm just wondering if anyone knows whether their cult teaches them to be more restrictive in their definitions there.

[DuggarWatch]

1 minute ago, OrchidBlossom said:

Question/ISB for everyone. I know some fundies actually believe the female orgasm is inherently evil outside of penis-vagina penetrative sex. Does anyone know if the Gothardites are in that camp? I mean I know Michelle has said she enjoys sex and they've all given lip service to the idea of enjoying sex within the marriage relationship, but I'm just wondering if anyone knows whether their cult teaches them to be more restrictive in their definitions there.

When did Michelle ever say that she enjoyed sex???????  Outside of wanting pregnancies, she always spoke of sex as satisfying a "husband's needs."

[OrchidBlossom]

1 minute ago, DuggarWatch said:

When did Michelle ever say that she enjoyed sex???????  Outside of wanting pregnancies, she always spoke of sex as satisfying a "husband's needs."

Sorry, I meant that one time she said it was a "release" for her or whatever. I over-stated her enthusiasm.