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Found this stock photo on the internet.... looks like Anna Duggar has secretly had an office job all along!

I say yes to roasted Brussels sprouts, hooray for parsnips....especially in stew.....and I'll take my rutabagas creamed OR mashed. But I won't take Josh. However......I think the REAL reason the

The truly sad part is that being the "perfect fundie wife" didn't hold Josh's interest before. Despite the guilt and reprogramming, it likely won't now.  The problem was never that Anna wasn't pretty

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2manyKidzzz

@NeverAFundie Kudos for finding this!! Great job. And I'm so glad to know that the Dillards are in dangerous places all in aid of saving those poor Catholics. The whole thing is still a mystery to me. As I have said before. At least once or twice. 

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ClaraOswin

Geez, I'd hate for people to see photos of me (2.5 YEARS post partum and I still look pregnant.)

As for Anna....I agree with those who say she will end up trying 'harder' to fulfill her wifely duties. It's quite sad. She was born into this crap and she doesn't know life could be so much better.

I actually like Anna. At least the bits of her personality that have shown through. I think in another world, she's someone I could have been friends with. I guess I just have a soft spot for her for some reason.

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NeverAFundie

It's hard to say if the new People article is up because the reboot series is premiering next week, or if Josh is recently released or about to be released from Jesus Rehab, or both.  I swear, every time I drive to Rockford (at least once a week), my Duggar Radar perks up, totally involuntarily.

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quiverofdoubt

Anna looks so aged in that promo. She looks like she's been to hell and back.  From her sound bites it seems like she's dealing with things she's not only never experienced before, but has zero coping mechanisms for. Cheating, sneaking, lying husbands weren't talked about in the ati handbook.

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CorruptionInc.

The ironic thing about the discussion about the M kids going to school is that Josh actually DID go to a brick and mortar school for a while. I believe he went to Shiloh Christian School? This is where master JB went.

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EmCatlyn
19 hours ago, DuggarsTheEndIsNear said:

I think their going to school very much depends on Josh's ability to secure work. If Josh is able to get a job without issues (whether its through the family, church, or friends), then the kids won't go to school. If Josh has to find his own job and really has to face the fact that his education is clearly going to fail him, they might go to a school. But it'll be a super strictly christian school.

I thought at first you were going to say that Josh would need a job to afford tuition.  But instead, you are suggesting that Josh might want his kids to have opportunities he didn't have, if he realizes how much his lack of education has hurt him.  If you are right, then Josh may be less narcissistic than we have been thinking him.  

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Bad Wolf

I don't think Josh ever went to Shiloh. I could be wrong. I thought they decided to home school when he was 5.

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withaj
13 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

I don't think Josh ever went to Shiloh. I could be wrong. I thought they decided to home school when he was 5.

Even if that timing is correct (and it sounds about right), he very well could have been there for preschool.

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DuggarsTheEndIsNear
19 hours ago, TuringMachine said:

I dunno. I don't have a lot of faith for anyone in this family to make the connection between things that go bad for them and their terrible upbringing. It's always the evil media or the liberal agenda. 

I don't think that's the case for Josh. He doesn't have that luxury anymore. It's one thing if bad things happen to the kids who have led the perfect fundie life, Josh hasn't. Josh has made decisions that can affect him for the rest of his life. And, it's a very real possibility that his parents will deliver that same message to him. After all, he stepped out of their umbrella of protection and invited the devil into their family.

 

10 hours ago, JesSky03 said:

I didn't grow up in a cult nor did I have religious parents but I do have 4 sisters. I'm the youngest and the oldest is 17 years my senior. She is a total b*tch. She disagrees with my dad on just about everything and is still holding a grudge against him from 20 years ago. She has alienated herself away from most of the family and I can't honestly remember the last time we had a real conversation (if ever). If I was in a position similar to Anna, and it was my oldest sibling offering to help, I would be very skeptical of her motives and wonder if she really wanted to help me or just defy our father/upbringing. If it was any of my other sisters I would be more inclined to listen to their offers or to take their advice.  I can see Anna thinking those same things about Daniel or the other siblings who broke away from the cult. 

I agree with this. But, I also don't see Anna going to her brother solely because of how he reacted upon discovering the truth about Josh. He publicly attacked Josh and behaved in a way that is going to make anyone who is in Anna's position defensive. The second you put someone in that position on the defensive, you've lost them, it's over, your relationship is ruined. It doesn't even matter if what you're saying is right or if they discover it later. You fucked up, and its very unlikely that you'll ever be forgiven. What Anna needed WASN'T him behaving that way. She needed him LISTENING to her and SLOWLY guiding her through things at the pace she's comfortable traveling. She needed him to put HER emotions first, not his.

9 hours ago, season of life said:

Do you guys think Anna will Instagram their little adventures anymore? Stuff like traveling or getting fast food or family time? 

I doubt it. Not for a while at least. And I don't think it's because of Josh being in the pictures, I think its because of the kinds of comments that she'd receive on her old posts. I mean, it's bad enough for her (and probably the other Duggars) that people have to rehash how they feel about Josh on every Duggar post, but there were some down right scary as hell comments like people talking about their sexual fantasies with Anna. If I was her, I would stay the fuck away from social media, too.

8 hours ago, Four is Enough said:

I still argue the point that Jana is a good seamstress. The dresses she altered for Jill's wedding were AWFUL. Hems weren't even. Seams weren't even. Seams were puckery.  Now, I'll grant that the fabric was also awful, but one must use a bit of discretion with the tension, the needle, and the thread when one is working with uncooperative fabric.

I'm still not sure Jana even did the sewing. Or, that she was given adequate amount of time to do it. TLC may have just said "Jana, we've shown you sewing before. How about we do that again. Sit here and make it look like you're working on this!"

2 hours ago, quiverofdoubt said:

Anna looks so aged in that promo. She looks like she's been to hell and back.  From her sound bites it seems like she's dealing with things she's not only never experienced before, but has zero coping mechanisms for. Cheating, sneaking, lying husbands weren't talked about in the ati handbook.

.... Of course she doesn't have coping mechanisms. She lives in a cult that says it's her fault that Josh was running with the devil. And she's had 4 kids to take care of without him, meaning she's had to move in with her in-laws. And she went from being a fluff piece to being torn apart by the tabloids in a matter of days. Then she was torn apart even more mere months later.

11 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

I thought at first you were going to say that Josh would need a job to afford tuition.  But instead, you are suggesting that Josh might want his kids to have opportunities he didn't have, if he realizes how much his lack of education has hurt him.  If you are right, then Josh may be less narcissistic than we have been thinking him.  

I don't think Josh is narcissistic. I think his upbringing gave him an inflated sense of self and also provided a huge lack of a moral and ethical base, but I wouldn't go so far as to say he's narcissistic. I also think that he really does love his kids. He may or may not love Anna, and he may or may not like being married, and he really has no good role models for any kind of emotional attachment to anyone, but I do think he actually loves his kids.

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SweetFellowshipper

Joy seems like she has a guy from the promo...

Dear Lord, I feel bad for Anna. It's so true that she was married off to her first crush. Not even her first college boyfriend or high school sweetheart (of which I'm also often wary). But her first crush, akin to a 7th grade boyfriend you'd have for three weeks. And told that if they ever broke up they'd go to hell. 

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withaj
1 minute ago, SweetFellowshipper said:

Joy seems like she has a guy from the promo...

They definitely edited it to look that way, but I suspect it's Jinger if anyone. And wasn't Jana pointing at John-David when she was asked who would court next?

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SweetFellowshipper
Just now, withaj said:

They definitely edited it to look that way, but I suspect it's Jinger if anyone. And wasn't Jana pointing at John-David when she was asked who would court next?

Definitely edited heavily so you can't actually tell....!

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Trynn

Sometimes poor families will get offered scholarships at private christian schools. I could absolutely see a school taking pity on Josh's kids and giving the family a steep discount.

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EmCatlyn
21 minutes ago, DuggarsTheEndIsNear said:

<snipped>

I don't think Josh is narcissistic. I think his upbringing gave him an inflated sense of self and also provided a huge lack of a moral and ethical base, but I wouldn't go so far as to say he's narcissistic. I also think that he really does love his kids. He may or may not love Anna, and he may or may not like being married, and he really has no good role models for any kind of emotional attachment to anyone, but I do think he actually loves his kids.

I think he loves his kids, but there are different types of love, and I don't think Josh has the capacity for the unselfish kind.  Everything he has done has shown that he tends to put himself first.  Maybe he would put his kids first when it came to shelling out money and disagreeing with his parents to get them into a real school, but I haven't seen that in the Josh that people discuss on this forum.

Josh might get his kids treats and toys and maybe let the girls wear pants . . . But would he think of the importance of their education as something to make an effort for?  If he didn't get the instant gratification of their pleasure or someone else's applause, would he do anything for them?

The best chance these kids have of an education is for Anna to recognize her own limitations and how ignorance and dependency haven't protected her.  I believe she is capable of teaching her kids effectively until around third grade.  If, around the time Mackynzie turns 8 or 9, Anna thinks of sending her to school instead of making her a sister-mom to M5, M6, and so forth, then I will really respect her as a good woman and mother.  If Josh takes the lead on sending the kids to school, I will conclude that I have misjudged him.

 

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DuggarsTheEndIsNear
Just now, EmCatlyn said:

I think he loves his kids, but there are different types of love, and I don't think Josh has the capacity for the unselfish kind.  Everything he has done has shown that he tends to put himself first.  Maybe he would put his kids first when it came to shelling out money and disagreeing with his parents to get them into a real school, but I haven't seen that in the Josh that people discuss on this forum.

Josh might get his kids treats and toys and maybe let the girls wear pants . . . But would he think of the importance of their education as something to make an effort for?  If he didn't get the instant gratification of their pleasure or someone else's applause, would he do anything for them?

The best chance these kids have of an education is for Anna to recognize her own limitations and how ignorance and dependency haven't protected her.  I believe she is capable of teaching her kids effectively until around third grade.  If, around the time Mackynzie turns 8 or 9, Anna thinks of sending her to school instead of making her a sister-mom to M5, M6, and so forth, then I will really respect her as a good woman and mother.  If Josh takes the lead on sending the kids to school, I will conclude that I have misjudged him.

 

"Everything he's done" as in the acts he committed as a teenager and the cheating on his wife? People can cheat on their spouse and still put their children first; they're completely unrelated acts. And, as much as so many people here LOVE to pretend otherwise, the actions of a FIFTEEN year old do not dictate the actions of a nearing 30 year old. Beyond the acts that he committed as a teenager and infidelity, we know VERY little of Josh except that he likes to get paid to toe the family line.

Plus, I would argue the idea that Josh puts himself first all the time. If he did, I think Josh would have actually made something of himself. Josh has the capacity to get his ducks in a row and get himself into a law school (he doesn't have to go to Harvard or Yale or something like that). If he was the kind of person who put himself first always, he would have found a way to become a lawyer, even if it meant making Anna make sacrifices/get a job/stop having babies. But he didn't.

Though, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he grew resentful. I mean, here he's been raised his whole life to believe that all he has to do is show "good character" and "fear of the lord" and people will just give him whatever the hell he wants. Sure, he got some perks, but you can't tell me that he didn't know he was only in the office as a "celebrity endorser." Nor can you convince me that someone who wanted to be a lawyer would be happy with a job he only has because he's the face of "family values done right."

Now, Josh is in a position where he can't even get a pity position like that one again because everyone knows what he did did to his sisters and everyone knows he cheated on his wife. Now, he's limited to whatever daddy can find for him to do, or he's going to have to enter the real job market and realize that his GED isn't going to get him very far in a society that treats bachelors degrees as a minimum requirement. If JB doesn't find something for Josh to do, Josh is going to have that wake up call, and that could very well be the straw that breaks the camel's back (because, let's face it, Josh has never truly been sold on ATI).

48 minutes ago, SweetFellowshipper said:

Joy seems like she has a guy from the promo...

Dear Lord, I feel bad for Anna. It's so true that she was married off to her first crush. Not even her first college boyfriend or high school sweetheart (of which I'm also often wary). But her first crush, akin to a 7th grade boyfriend you'd have for three weeks. And told that if they ever broke up they'd go to hell. 

I'm not sure if she HAS a boy, but I think she definitely LIKES a boy *coughLawsoncough*. Big difference, even in the fundie world. It doesn't mean anything until it's parent approved.

46 minutes ago, withaj said:

They definitely edited it to look that way, but I suspect it's Jinger if anyone. And wasn't Jana pointing at John-David when she was asked who would court next?

I'm like 90% certain that all of those were taken out of context and edited to make sure we tune in. Except maybe Jana's. And hers was more like "maybe one of us?" Like she was guessing them because of their age.

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Dandruff
1 hour ago, EmCatlyn said:

I thought at first you were going to say that Josh would need a job to afford tuition.  But instead, you are suggesting that Josh might want his kids to have opportunities he didn't have, if he realizes how much his lack of education has hurt him.  If you are right, then Josh may be less narcissistic than we have been thinking him.  

I've always thought that Josh was relatively bright, as Duggars go, and probably resented his lack of educational options.  I also think he loves his kids.  Now that appearances matter...differently (I doubt he'll be a fundie spokesperson ever again), he might just get them some good educations.  If he felt trapped by the limits his parents put on his future, and I think he did, then I'd expect he'd try to do better by his own kids.

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2manyKidzzz

I'm sure Josh loves his kids. Whether or not he can pull himself together and support them and Anna as a family remains to be seen. It may not be who he is. Whoever he is. Not forgetting he did molest his sisters. 

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EmCatlyn

@DuggarsTheEndIsNear and @Dandruff,  I am not suggesting that, just because Josh molested his sisters and cheated on Anna, he doesn't love his children.  But love doesn't always rise to self-sacrifice.  I have known many parents who wanted their children to have certain opportunities but never made the effort necessary.  I have known people who sincerely loved their kids but couldn't put them first on a day-to-day basis.  Being a good parent is hard, and there are different ways in which a man like Josh might fail his kids, even if he ever recognizes what an education could have done for him.

Bottom line is I haven't noticed that he did much for his kids before, except the usual daddy-play-with-me stuff.  And even if he doesn't love Anna, going to sleep during his wife's labor suggests an unusual degree of detachment.  We know that like all Duggars he likes to brag and that he has been brought up to look at wife and kids as existing to build up his ego.

Is he truly capable of seeing his kids as individuals whom he might, through his efforts, give a better life to?  I don't know.  Is he likely to see education as something they need that he didn't get? I don't know that either.  But being unselfish is hard, and he doesn't have the history. 

We will see.  I hope for the M-kids sake, and also Anna's, that Prayer Prison gave him a chance to reflect on how he can do better for his kids than JB and Michelle did for him.  I just don't see it.

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DuggarsTheEndIsNear
41 minutes ago, 2manyKidzzz said:

I'm sure Josh loves his kids. Whether or not he can pull himself together and support them and Anna as a family remains to be seen. It may not be who he is. Whoever he is. Not forgetting he did molest his sisters. 

You don't have to forget that he molested his sisters to acknowledge that he MAY NOT ever molest anyone again. His actions against his sisters were deplorable, and were definitely not handled correctly. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean he's still performing those acts, he's still a danger, or that his actions were driven by a personality he still has. The vast majority of people change a LOT between even 15 and 18 years, forget 15 and almost 30.

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2manyKidzzz
2 minutes ago, DuggarsTheEndIsNear said:

You don't have to forget that he molested his sisters to acknowledge that he MAY NOT ever molest anyone again. His actions against his sisters were deplorable, and were definitely not handled correctly. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean he's still performing those acts, he's still a danger, or that his actions were driven by a personality he still has. The vast majority of people change a LOT between even 15 and 18 years, forget 15 and almost 30.

I did not say he would do anything. However, it is part of his past. And remains so. Relax.

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DuggarsTheEndIsNear
1 minute ago, EmCatlyn said:

@DuggarsTheEndIsNear and @Dandruff,  I am not suggesting that, just because Josh molested his sisters and cheated on Anna, he doesn't love his children.  But love doesn't always rise to self-sacrifice.  I have known many parents who wanted their children to have certain opportunities but never made the effort necessary.  I have known people who sincerely loved their kids but couldn't put them first on a day-to-day basis.  Being a good parent is hard, and there are different ways in which a man like Josh might fail his kids, even if he ever recognizes what an education could have done for him.

Bottom line is I haven't noticed that he did much for his kids before, except the usual daddy-play-with-me stuff.  And even if he doesn't love Anna, going to sleep during his wife's labor suggests an unusual degree of detachment.  We know that like all Duggars he likes to brag and that he has been brought up to look at wife and kids as existing to build up his ego.

Is he truly capable of seeing his kids as individuals whom he might, through his efforts, give a better life to?  I don't know.  Is he likely to see education as something they need that he didn't get? I don't know that either.  But being unselfish is hard, and he doesn't have the history. 

We will see.  I hope for the M-kids sake, and also Anna's, that Prayer Prison gave him a chance to reflect on how he can do better for his kids than JB and Michelle did for him.  I just don't see it.

We saw VERY LITTLE of Josh and his family on the show compared to other family members. The things we did see of them usually involved "what does Anna do now that Josh has a 'real job?'" or the family traipsing around the world taking absolutely no advantage of the cultural experiences they were afforded. And, from what I saw, his instagram was mostly political crap, just like Anna's. It's not like we got a great view of their family dynamic.

As for the sleeping during labor, A LOT of professionals have weighed in on this topic and said that they suggest that fathers do just that if the mother isn't progressing quickly because one of them is going to have to be awake to take care of the children after she's done with labor and exhausted. Also, it's not like Josh and Anna had a hospital birth where the baby's care would be facilitated by a team of nurses.

2 minutes ago, 2manyKidzzz said:

I did not say he would do anything. However, it is part of his past. And remains so. Relax.

What's the point of saying you're not forgetting what he did after talking about whether or not he'll step up for his family if you're not saying he's going to do anything like that again?

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2manyKidzzz
11 minutes ago, DuggarsTheEndIsNear said:

We saw VERY LITTLE of Josh and his family on the show compared to other family members. The things we did see of them usually involved "what does Anna do now that Josh has a 'real job?'" or the family traipsing around the world taking absolutely no advantage of the cultural experiences they were afforded. And, from what I saw, his instagram was mostly political crap, just like Anna's. It's not like we got a great view of their family dynamic.

As for the sleeping during labor, A LOT of professionals have weighed in on this topic and said that they suggest that fathers do just that if the mother isn't progressing quickly because one of them is going to have to be awake to take care of the children after she's done with labor and exhausted. Also, it's not like Josh and Anna had a hospital birth where the baby's care would be facilitated by a team of nurses.

What's the point of saying you're not forgetting what he did after talking about whether or not he'll step up for his family if you're not saying he's going to do anything like that again?

I have no idea what he will  do. I have not forgotten he molested his sisters and as I have said repeatedly, I would not leave him alone with children in my care. My choice and it stands. And would apply to anyone with his past and profile. To protect children. Not worrying about Josh in the slightest in this matter. 

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EmCatlyn
1 minute ago, DuggarsTheEndIsNear said:

We saw VERY LITTLE of Josh and his family on the show compared to other family members. The things we did see of them usually involved "what does Anna do now that Josh has a 'real job?'" or the family traipsing around the world taking absolutely no advantage of the cultural experiences they were afforded. And, from what I saw, his instagram was mostly political crap, just like Anna's. It's not like we got a great view of their family dynamic.

As for the sleeping during labor, A LOT of professionals have weighed in on this topic and said that they suggest that fathers do just that if the mother isn't progressing quickly because one of them is going to have to be awake to take care of the children after she's done with labor and exhausted. Also, it's not like Josh and Anna had a hospital birth where the baby's care would be facilitated by a team of nurses.

As I said, Josh may turn out to be a dedicated and self-sacrifing parent.  But just as we don't know that he isn't, we also have no reason to believe that he is.  Furthermore, we have no reason to assume that he will (a) become aware of the importance of education and (b) connect that with his own failures and make the effort to spare his kids by sending them to school.  Maybe he will. But what evidence do we have that he might? 

There is a lot that we don't know about these people. But just as I refuse to see Josh as some shifty pederast who is a danger to his children (because there is no evidence that he ever molested anyone after he was 16), I refuse to assume that he is a great, self-sacrifing father who will put his kids ahead of himself. (There is no evidence that he isn't; but there is also no evidence that he is.)

Not all parents can do what you are hoping Josh might do: recognize the flaws in his own education and do something to give them a better educational chance.  Maybe he can.  Without any more information than we have about him, I tend to doubt it, but let's hope you are right, for the sake of the M kids.

 

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