Anna Duggar and the M kids part 6

[Iokaste]

On 3/14/2016 at 8:16 PM, Catholic and NOT 'ebil' said:

This! I think you explained yourself clearly and I couldn't agree more!!!  There is nothing that can 'unring the bell' that Smuggs ding'd when he went down his rabbit hole. He can't 'unsee' those images or forget the other womens bodies, if he ever physically cheated.  

 

Seriously, this sounds an awful lot like another way of framing "giving away pieces of your heart".
I know mine and Smuggar's circumstances and cultural grooming are worlds apart, but I seriously doubt that our sexualities work in radically different ways, in terms of being able to enjoy sex with one partner even if we'd had multiples. 

I've had experiences I enjoyed with previous partners that my current isn't in to and so has he, that doesn't mean we can't enjoy each other or be fullfilled in different ways. 

 

[Cleopatra7]

46 minutes ago, Iokaste said:

Seriously, this sounds an awful lot like another way of framing "giving away pieces of your heart".
I know mine and Smuggar's circumstances and cultural grooming are worlds apart, but I seriously doubt that our sexualities work in radically different ways, in terms of being able to enjoy sex with one partner even if we'd had multiples. 

I've had experiences I enjoyed with previous partners that my current isn't in to and so has he, that doesn't mean we can't enjoy each other or be fullfilled in different ways. 

 

I think the difference is that Gothardidm, like many very conservative religions, not only condemns premarital sex, but I would assume also has certain sex acts and behaviors designated as off-limits. If sex is only for procreation, that vastly limits your repetoire. When Josh was pretending to be John Smithson of whoever he was freed from those rules, but as the newly rehabbed (supposedly) fundie husband, he has to be on the straight and narrow and can never enjoy those things again. It would be one thing if Josh and Anna were more or less equals within the relationship and able to explore things together, but as it stands, she has go be his mommy, his jailer, and his sexual partner.

[Iokaste]

23 minutes ago, Cleopatra7 said:

.... It would be one thing if Josh and Anna were more or less equals within the relationship and able to explore things together, but as it stands, she has go be his mommy, his jailer, and his sexual partner.

Agree and I think those dynamics can seriously damage a relationship in every possible way, but the damage really wasn't created by Josh seeing another woman naked, and if he did have sex with someone else it's not like it has forever destroyed his ability to bond sexually with his wife again.    

[Cleopatra7]

34 minutes ago, Iokaste said:

Agree and I think those dynamics can seriously damage a relationship in every possible way, but the damage really wasn't created by Josh seeing another woman naked, and if he did have sex with someone else it's not like it has forever destroyed his ability to bond sexually with his wife again.    

Oh I agree with you that Josh having sex with other people doesn't mean that Josh can't rebond with Anna. I think the real problem is that Josh is bored with Anna, not just sexually, but as a person. He may be found of her as the mother of his children, but I don't know if he loves or even limes her in a way that bodes the possibility for a healthy long-term future together.

[Catholic and NOT 'ebil']

2 hours ago, Iokaste said:

Seriously, this sounds an awful lot like another way of framing "giving away pieces of your heart".
I know mine and Smuggar's circumstances and cultural grooming are worlds apart, but I seriously doubt that our sexualities work in radically different ways, in terms of being able to enjoy sex with one partner even if we'd had multiples. 

I've had experiences I enjoyed with previous partners that my current isn't in to and so has he, that doesn't mean we can't enjoy each other or be fullfilled in different ways. 

 

Totally not what I'm saying at all. I don't subscribe to the 'pieces of their heart' theory at all.

The rest of my initial post that you didn't reference elaborated on what I was getting at. That Josh may simply want to 'add sprinkles to their vanilla bedroom fun' because he has experienced and/or seen things that interest him and Anna will wonder and most likely assume these things are a result of his escapades. IMO, she may view these 'ideas' of Josh's a result of his 'porn addiction and cheating,' feel they have no 'value' to her as they are having sex with the intention of procreation and may 'report' him to the parentals. Anna knows she must be 'available' to Josh in the bedroom but she may likely see 'new tricks' as sinful and/or wrong since they would be as result of things Smuggs learned while 'sinning.' 

[Iokaste]

5 minutes ago, Catholic and NOT 'ebil' said:

Totally not what I'm saying at all. I don't subscribe to the 'pieces of their heart' theory at all.

The rest of my initial post that you didn't reference elaborated on what I was getting at. That Josh may simply want to 'add sprinkles to their vanilla bedroom fun' because he has experienced and/or seen things that interest him and Anna will wonder and most likely assume these things are a result of his escapades. IMO, she may view these 'ideas' of Josh's a result of his 'porn addiction and cheating,' feel they have no 'value' to her as they are having sex with the intention of procreation and may 'report' him to the parentals. Anna knows she must be 'available' to Josh in the bedroom but she may likely see 'new tricks' as sinful and/or wrong since they would be as result of things Smuggs learned while 'sinning.' 

I see what your gettting at and I didn't mean to say that you subscribe to "pieces of your heart", it just came close to a secular-"pieces of your heart" to me, and I just don't agree that if you've experienced somthing with someone you are never able to have a happy sexlife without it, if a new partner isn't into that.

I don't know what Gothardism teaches about "proper" sex, other than that it must be irresponsible with regards to familyplanning.
Have you, or anyone else, looked into that? Are there specific teachings that we know of?

[QuiverDance]

4 hours ago, missegeno said:

I think the NO perception is more about Mardi Gras and drinking/revelry than about strip clubs. I never thought of it as a nudity destination, but certainly as a party city.

As for strip clubs, LV may be famous for them, but Portland Oregon has the most strip clubs per capita (per resident) of the country. They are seriously everywhere in that city.

Side note, but did anybody else watch the show Preachers' Daughters? Most of the girls on it were just wild teens looking for a good time, but I really felt for the NO girl. She seemed like somebody who needed help but wasn't getting the right kind. :-(

Yeah, I know the French Quarter is wild, especially at Mardi Gras.  Even Mardi Gras, outside of the Quarter, is a very family-oriented celebration.  Sure, there is drinking.  It's a party, but it's not really a "sin city" type of thing.  Although if you consider having fun a sin, I guess New Orleans is pretty sinful.  

[missegeno]

Yeah, I know the French Quarter is wild, especially at Mardi Gras.  Even Mardi Gras, outside of the Quarter, is a very family-oriented celebration.  Sure, there is drinking.  It's a party, but it's not really a "sin city" type of thing.  Although if you consider having fun a sin, I guess New Orleans is pretty sinful.  

Dancing to soulful music, unchaperoned conversations, and co-mingling of people who may possess different genitalia - sounds like a regular pit of depravity to me. It's not like the city has any sort of history emphasizing strong family bonds or devout Christianity. ;-)

(Sarcasm, much sarcasm)

[OrchidBlossom]

5 hours ago, Iokaste said:

Seriously, this sounds an awful lot like another way of framing "giving away pieces of your heart".
I know mine and Smuggar's circumstances and cultural grooming are worlds apart, but I seriously doubt that our sexualities work in radically different ways, in terms of being able to enjoy sex with one partner even if we'd had multiples. 

I've had experiences I enjoyed with previous partners that my current isn't in to and so has he, that doesn't mean we can't enjoy each other or be fullfilled in different ways. 

 

I completely agree. Smuggs doesn't have to "unring" any bells. I've seen and done a lot of things I don't do with my current partner and I still love and respect him and we have a fulfilling sexual and romantic life. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like Joshley loves and respects Anna and THAT I think is the real problem. Not that he can't unsee the porn or the other women, but that he doesn't really see Anna. Nor does he care to. And why should he? She's just his helpmeet. 

[missegeno]

I see what your gettting at and I didn't mean to say that you subscribe to "pieces of your heart", it just came close to a secular-"pieces of your heart" to me, and I just don't agree that if you've experienced somthing with someone you are never able to have a happy sexlife without it, if a new partner isn't into that.

I don't know what Gothardism teaches about "proper" sex, other than that it must be irresponsible with regards to familyplanning.

Have you, or anyone else, looked into that? Are there specific teachings that we know of?

I may be wrong, but i think the op wasn't saying quite what you say you disagree with. The analogy of ringing a bell feels a bit off to me, but I'm willing to chalk it up to poor wording. I think the point was more a matter of the fact that normal, healthy, long term sex lives within marriages often need to be "spiced up" at some point. In such a case, one partner may make a suggestion (bubble bath for two, perhaps), and the other may respond to that suggestion according to their personal interest in the suggested activity. Now, Josh is a headship, so it's possible that he demands more than asks, but still, let's say he tries to add some spice to their sex life now, post-rehab. We don't know how Anna will interpret it. She may go along with anything he asks in hopes that it keeps him from straying. Or, she may believe that it came from his experiences with other women/Satan's fortress, and therefore reject it.

I think the poster was just positing that the latter may be the case, though perhaps with a bit more emphasis on what Josh might have learned in his affair(s) than I would have given. Still, I think it was fair to mention that Josh probably has more ideas now than what was outlined in his pre-wedding chat with JB. Not that Josh can't live happily without erotic bubble baths for the rest of his life, but normal efforts to spice up their sex life may be misattributed to Satan and therefore rejected.

[OrchidBlossom]

6 minutes ago, missegeno said:

I may be wrong, but i think the op wasn't saying quite what you say you disagree with. The analogy of ringing a bell feels a bit off to me, but I'm willing to chalk it up to poor wording. I think the point was more a matter of the fact that normal, healthy, long term sex lives within marriages often need to be "spiced up" at some point. In such a case, one partner may make a suggestion (bubble bath for two, perhaps), and the other may respond to that suggestion according to their personal interest in the suggested activity. Now, Josh is a headship, so it's possible that he demands more than asks, but still, let's say he tries to add some spice to their sex life now, post-rehab. We don't know how Anna will interpret it. She may go along with anything he asks in hopes that it keeps him from straying. Or, she may believe that it came from his experiences with other women/Satan's fortress, and therefore reject it.

I think the poster was just positing that the latter may be the case, though perhaps with a bit more emphasis on what Josh might have learned in his affair(s) than I would have given. Still, I think it was fair to mention that Josh probably has more ideas now than what was outlined in his pre-wedding chat with JB. Not that Josh can't live happily without erotic bubble baths for the rest of his life, but normal efforts to spice up their sex life may be misattributed to Satan and therefore rejected.

That I understand. To be fair though I'm not so sure that ATI-ers believe in spicing up the love life. I could easily see, even in an alternate universe where Josh never cheated, Anna interpreting him trying to change things up as a signal that the devil is in his imagination or even that his suggestions indicate that she isn't enough for him without trying new things.

[2manyKidzzz]

9 hours ago, Toothfairy said:

Jimchelle need to keep their kids isolated. Can't have any minds of their own. Even homeschoolers are active in their community. Some take college courses and coop. They interact with other people. Not jimchelle. They want too much control. What harm is joining the girl/boy scouts or meeting other homeschoolers. 

Yes, I hadn't thought about it but my husband was quite involved in Scouts and a whole group of homeschoolers joined as they selected that troop when looking for a Scout "home". There were no restrictions on what they could see or hear that I ever heard. Of course, I am not a Boy Scout, lol. 

[season of life]

3 hours ago, OrchidBlossom said:

That I understand. To be fair though I'm not so sure that ATI-ers believe in spicing up the love life. I could easily see, even in an alternate universe where Josh never cheated, Anna interpreting him trying to change things up as a signal that the devil is in his imagination or even that his suggestions indicate that she isn't enough for him without trying new things.

These guys probably couldn't even handle scented candles and rose petals in the bedroom.

[DuggarWatch]

4 hours ago, OrchidBlossom said:

That I understand. To be fair though I'm not so sure that ATI-ers believe in spicing up the love life. I could easily see, even in an alternate universe where Josh never cheated, Anna interpreting him trying to change things up as a signal that the devil is in his imagination or even that his suggestions indicate that she isn't enough for him without trying new things.

The things Josh liked to watch were online porn movies with female bisexuals.  Don't think Anna will be into that.

[OrchidBlossom]

1 hour ago, DuggarWatch said:

The things Josh liked to watch were online porn movies with female bisexuals.  Don't think Anna will be into that.

<img class="ipsImage ipsImage_thumbnailed" data-fileid="12408" data-unique="014l49eo7" src="http://www.freejinger.org/uploads/monthly_2016_03/56e9c2262a180_0Anna.jpg.bac031fa5d7f773e86e0af9c4ac1080f.jpg" alt="56e9c2262a180_0Anna.jpg.bac031fa5d7f773e">

That reaction shot though.

1 hour ago, season of life said:

These guys probably couldn't even handle scented candles and rose petals in the bedroom.

Maybe, MAYBE candles. Anna would have to buy them though. Too emasculating for him to do it. 

[quiverofdoubt]

7 minutes ago, OrchidBlossom said:

That reaction shot though.

Maybe, MAYBE candles. Anna would have to buy them though. Too emasculating for him to do it. 

Warning. Tasteless comment ahead.

I don't think scented candles will do it for josh.  According to a previous poster he was googling girl on girl stuff.  He's in good company btw, according to that map that was all over fb recently, most of the country's number one googled porn term is "lesbian".  Josh would be a lot more interested in a threesome. I bet there would be a line of willing leghumpers to help him out there too.

[DuggarWatch]

6 minutes ago, OrchidBlossom said:

Maybe, MAYBE candles. Anna would have to buy them though. Too emasculating for him to do it. 

Josh isn't into romance.  That's not why he was on an adultery dating site.

[OrchidBlossom]

Just now, DuggarWatch said:

Josh isn't into romance.  That's not why he was on an adultery dating site.

I wasn't trying to imply that would do it for Josh  I just meant generally maybe an ATIer could allow candles without giving into the devil.

2 minutes ago, quiverofdoubt said:

Warning. Tasteless comment ahead.

I don't think scented candles will do it for josh.  According to a previous poster he was googling girl on girl stuff.  He's in good company btw, according to that map that was all over fb recently, most of the country's number one googled porn term is "lesbian".  Josh would be a lot more interested in a threesome. I bet there would be a line of willing leghumpers to help him out there too.

What I wouldn't give to be in Anna's head if he ever proposed that. 

[VeryNikeSeamstress]

 

1 hour ago, OrchidBlossom said:

I wasn't trying to imply that would do it for Josh  I just meant generally maybe an ATIer could allow candles without giving into the devil.

What I wouldn't give to be in Anna's head if he ever proposed that. 

It would be beautifully ironic if he did, and then Anna decided to leave him for the other woman.

[OrchidBlossom]

22 minutes ago, VeryNikeSeamstress said:

 

It would be beautifully ironic if he did, and then Anna decided to leave him for the other woman.

Now if that happened I would want to be a fly on the wall when Josh explained it to Jimchelle

[Destiny]

Ew guys, why is anyone talking or thinking about Joshley's secksy times? No. Just no.

[season of life]

11 minutes ago, Destiny said:

Ew guys, why is anyone talking or thinking about Joshley's secksy times? No. Just no.

Lmfao, but you're kinda right. It is gross, especially since it's JOSH. 

[Toothfairy]

14 hours ago, Cleopatra7 said:

Oh I agree with you that Josh having sex with other people doesn't mean that Josh can't rebond with Anna. I think the real problem is that Josh is bored with Anna, not just sexually, but as a person. He may be found of her as the mother of his children, but I don't know if he loves or even limes her in a way that bodes the possibility for a healthy long-term future together.

Then Josh should just divorce Anna and find another woman. 

[Cleopatra7]

3 minutes ago, Toothfairy said:

Then Josh should just divorce Anna and find another woman. 

That would be the logical thing to do, but logic has no place in the Duggar world. Part of the "Duggar brand" is promoting marriage as "one man-one woman until death" and divorce has no place in this brand.

[EmCatlyn]

Re a mention up-thread that Josh was into girl-on-girl sex:  How do we know? All we know for a fact is that he had two AM accounts, a fake Facebook and a fake OK Cupid.  He admitted to being hooked on porn, but did he say what kind?  We don't even know for sure about the strip clubs or Danica.

We also don't really know that Anna would take suggestions about spicing up their love life as coming from Satan.  I could just as easily see her asking Josh for suggestions on how to please him.  And if he suggested bubble baths for two or suggested scented candles, I would think she might even like it.

The truth is that we have no idea what ATI Fundies do in the privacy of marriage. We know the results (babies) and we know that their teachings favor the male on top position, but the latter is no guarantee that a helpmeet would not happily go along with her headship's desire for variety in positions and <ahem> methods of achieving sexual release... so long as pregnancy is not being prevented.  

But as to trying to envision just how far Anna would go to please Josh . . .  I won't go there.  It is none of our business and, besides, there just isn't enough brain bleach.