Maxwells vote for Ted Cruz

[Arete]

1 hour ago, Maggie Mae said:

I thought that is a catholic thing? 

Catholic and Eastern Orthodox.

[mango_fandango]

5 minutes ago, iweartanktops said:

I saw that. Didn't watch the slide show. 

I'm curious about what people think when Christians say things like, "God's grace is sufficient," after losing someone. Particularly a child. I know there are never really the right words to say, but what does that even mean? 

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to be snarky. I'm honestly wondering what you all think about it. 

Well, it's probably like "well, God had other plans for this kid". Which sounds like a shitty thing to say. "Here, have this baby- NOPE! God wants it instead". If anyone else offered you something and snatched it away, especially if you'd had said thing for a while, you'd be upset and annoyed. But because it's God it's A-OK. God sounds shitty. 

[iweartanktops]

9 minutes ago, mango_fandango said:

Well, it's probably like "well, God had other plans for this kid". Which sounds like a shitty thing to say. "Here, have this baby- NOPE! God wants it instead". If anyone else offered you something and snatched it away, especially if you'd had said thing for a while, you'd be upset and annoyed. But because it's God it's A-OK. God sounds shitty. 

Yes! Even before I was questioning my faith, those kinds of statements in the face of tragedy felt empty to me. I've always wondered if people really believe it when they say it. 

@WonderingInWA, those posts were absolutely heartbreaking! 

[Screamapillar]

I think comments like "God's grace is sufficient" when someone has lost someone can be either helpful, harmful, or have no effect depending on the person who it is directed towards.

Excuse my probably rambling and not very eloquent explanation for this, but it is something that I thought about a lot a few months ago when my grandfather passed. I am not religious. Most of my family is. My grandfather's funeral was probably 2% about my grandfather as a person (He was a quick wit, he was an All-American athlete, and he loved Gunsmoke. Those are literally the only things the two preachers at his funeral said about him) and the other 98% of the very long (about 90 minute) funeral was all about God and Jesus. It was more hell fire and brimstone preaching than anything else. Now for me, this was disappointing, because I would have rather heard about what a great guy my Papaw was, then get told that I'm going to Hell, which I don't believe in anyway, if I don't accept Jesus. For my grandmother, it was extremely comforting, as she is very deeply religious, to the point that the only comfort for her was to know that her husband was with Jesus. If you take simply the cases of myself and my grandma into consideration, "God's grace is sufficient" is probably win/win for both. I don't care, so it doesn't affect me. My grandma does, so it is positive for her. It's everyone who falls in between the two that risks offense and hurt feelings with those kind of comments, in my opinion.

No fan of the Maxwells, but if their religion does comfort them over something as devastating as the loss of Susannah, then at least that is one good thing that religion can do.

[CyborgKin]

56 minutes ago, iweartanktops said:

I saw that. Didn't watch the slide show. 

I'm curious about what people think when Christians say things like, "God's grace is sufficient," after losing someone. Particularly a child. I know there are never really the right words to say, but what does that even mean? 

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to be snarky. I'm honestly wondering what you all think about it. 

I believe it's a reference to this passage:

Quote

And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure. Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me. And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ’s sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong.
II Corinthians 12:7-10 NKJV

It's about how bad things show us that we can't cope on our own strength, which reminds us to rely on God.

[Justme]

1 hour ago, AreteJo said:

Catholic and Eastern Orthodox.

Protestant as well.

 

[PennySycamore]

@Screamapillar, your grandfather's funeral sounds way too much like my mom's.  She absolutely would have hated it!  One sister-in-law and three nephews/nieces are Jewish and my mom and dad never preached at them to get saved.  The preacher didn't know much about my mom at all.

[socalrules]

Realistically, there is no correct way to grieve. If faith helps someone in their grief it's ok. If a death pulls someone away from God or makes them doubt his existence that is ok too. No one way is right way. I never understand why people are upset if believing in God helps someone through something or if not believing makes more sense to someone else. Who cares what someone else needs or doesn't need to make it through the day? I am a faith person. Prayer, church, the works. It makes me feel better and I don't doubt what I feel or believe.  I don't care if someone else doesn't believe or need that same amount of faith. Why should I? It is not my place to judge someone else's need for faith or lack there of. 

[iweartanktops]

6 minutes ago, socalrules said:

Realistically, there is no correct way to grieve. If faith helps someone in their grief it's ok. If a death pulls someone away from God or makes them doubt his existence that is ok too. No one way is right way. I never understand why people are upset if believing in God helps someone through something or if not believing makes more sense to someone else. Who cares what someone else needs or doesn't need to make it through the day? I am a faith person. Prayer, church, the works. It makes me feel better and I don't doubt what I feel or believe.  I don't care if someone else doesn't believe or need that same amount of faith. Why should I? It is not my place to judge someone else's need for faith or lack there of. 

I hope I didn't sound like I'm judging. I'm not. I know that faith helps a lot of people with grief. I'm just curious about what others think about it. It's something I've thought about for a long time. I wanted to ask here, because there are so many different opinions and thoughts on FJ.

[Foudeb]

I'm an atheist and mourning really pulled me towards religion - I really wanted to believe there is an other side and he's having a jolly good time there. More selfishly I think talking to a priest could have helped - they do a lot of this kind of thing after all so must know what to say.

What kept me back (apart from there being good reasons I'm an atheist) was knowing he would have thought turning towards religion ridiculous and would have laughed at me for doing so. So, not a good way to mourn him.

In the end the thought I find most comforting is that death is just non-existence. It's not good, but it's not bad. It's just nothing. Like not yet being born / conceived yet. Except that everyone who knew the person who passed carries memories of them, so they still exist in that ripple effect way. YMMV of course.

I still light a candle for him in every cathedral I visit though. Can't hurt.

 

[kpmom]

I thought it was interesting that the Maxwells chose to publish this comment regarding the Susannah post;

"Sarah says:

March 21, 2016 at 5:07 pm

Just wanted to let you know that your blog has inspired me to pick up my Bible on a day-to-day basis again. I am Jewish, not Christian; will always be Jewish, not Christian; but heartfelt religion is beautiful in any form. Have a great day!"

I was especially surprised they allowed the heartfelt religion in any form part.  That seems like it's against the Maxwell belief of there being. only one path to God

Serious question, do fundamentalist Christians like the Maxwells believe Jewish people need to convert, or do they believe Jews are God's chosen people and therefore do not need to convert?

[Coconut Flan]

1 hour ago, AreteJo said:

Catholic and Eastern Orthodox.

Methodist, Lutheran, Episcopalian, Disciples of Christ, etc.

[Antimony]

Watched bits of the slideshow. They say the music is by Anna and Mary and Jesse and Joseph. Do we know who is singing? To me, that sounds how I would imagine Mary's voice to sound from how she looks (which sounds silly, I know, but it just doesn't match with how I expect Anna to sound.)

But Mary would have been pretty young when this was recorded, right? (Gonna go see if I can find their other music.)

[WonderingInWA]

2 minutes ago, Antimony said:

Watched bits of the slideshow. They say the music is by Anna and Mary and Jesse and Joseph. Do we know who is singing? To me, that sounds how I would imagine Mary's voice to sound from how she looks (which sounds silly, I know, but it just doesn't match with how I expect Anna to sound.)

But Mary would have been pretty young when this was recorded, right? (Gonna go see if I can find their other music.)

They re-recorded it 2-3 years ago so the version you hear now is the re-recorded one.  The female voice is Anna and I believe the male voice is still Jesse.  It's better than the original version which was very Hee-Haw for a lullaby.  They added a few higher notes which I think Anna hits well.  As far as I know, Mary doesn't solo, but I could be wrong.  They all play instruments, which is why they are all credited.

[Antimony]

Just now, WonderingInWA said:

They re-recorded it 2-3 years ago so the version you hear now is the re-recorded one.  The female voice is Anna and I believe the male voice is still Jesse.  It's better than the original version which was very Hee-Haw for a lullaby.  They added a few higher notes which I think Anna hits well.  As far as I know, Mary doesn't solo, but I could be wrong.  They all play instruments, which is why they are all credited.

Then, Anna's voice reminds me of a lot of maybe some pieces from Songcatcher. It has a nice quality about it that you hear a lot in folk and bluegrass. It seems like she hasn't refined it super well but I like it.

I lived with a bluegrass band for a while and she has the kind of voice they would have loved to jam with (you know, if she would have sung like Old Number 7 or something non-religious).

[WonderingInWA]

12 minutes ago, Antimony said:

Then, Anna's voice reminds me of a lot of maybe some pieces from Songcatcher. It has a nice quality about it that you hear a lot in folk and bluegrass. It seems like she hasn't refined it super well but I like it.

I lived with a bluegrass band for a while and she has the kind of voice they would have loved to jam with (you know, if she would have sung like Old Number 7 or something non-religious).

The previous version was done at the time of Susannah's birth and passing (I believe the slide show was shown at her funeral) and Anna's voice was not refined.  This re-recorded version is much nicer, I think, and they added the bridge that comes about 3/4 of the way through.  Much better with more mature voices.

[chris]

2 hours ago, Coconut Flan said:

Methodist, Lutheran, Episcopalian, Disciples of Christ, etc.

I'm honestly surprised Baptists don't make Holy Week (Palm Sunday thru Easter) a bigger deal than they do. They're the only regular services pastor's at my Lutheran 'mega-church' wear their vestments and we hold the formal mass

[PennySycamore]

@Hiddenomaha, Passion Week would just be too Catholic for many Baptists.  They might mark Palm Sunday on their bulletins and they do celebrate Easter, but they tend not to do more than that.  It's a rare Baptist church that will commemorate Holy  (Maundy) Thursday, Good Friday or Holy Saturday, the Pascal Triduum.   At the Catholic Center at UGA, we used to have a Seder dinner led by one of the local Jewish families followed by Holy Thursday Mass complete with the washing of feet of 12 volunteers and a reading of the Passion.  Good Friday had another reading of the Passion, but no Mass.  Saturday/Sunday midnight might have the first Easter Mass.

The Seder supper was not like some of the bastardized ones I've seen where there is too much emphasis on the Last Supper as being a Seder.  It was just a Seder with no Christian emphasis.  I helped with the cooking a couple of years.  It was fun!

[Coconut Flan]

Neighbor's fundie-lite Baptist Church is doing Good Friday this week.

[chris]

@PennySycamore Well that's a shame, I've always thought those services to be the most striking and beautiful. 

[PennySycamore]

@Hiddenomaha, I think so too even though I no longer consider myself Catholic or even Christian, for that matter.

[anniebgood]

6 hours ago, AreteJo said:

Catholic and Eastern Orthodox.

Lutheran too. We start with Palm Sunday liturgy and then go into Passion Sunday. Then the 3 day of Vigil before Easter. 

[Arete]

1 hour ago, anniebgood said:

Lutheran too. We start with Palm Sunday liturgy and then go into Passion Sunday. Then the 3 day of Vigil before Easter. 

I feel like smacking myself for forgetting the High Church Protestants.

 

[RoseWilder]

I'm kind of surprised (pleasantly so) by the part of the latest blog entry where Sarah says "your pain is not unnatural" and that it's "so hard." The Maxwells seem like such emotionless robots most of the time that it stuns me when they express actual emotions. And generally they're so smug that I was also pleasantly surprised by the, "we don't have all the answers" part. 

Now if only they could apply this honesty about the pain and grief they're feeling (and this lack of smugness) to the rest of their lives. . . 

[Ali]

It is not uncommon for a Protestant church to have a Good Friday service.