Bates Family Part 10

[RosyDaisy]

Depending on the tone of the conversation, "have a blessed day" is right up there with "bless your heart" as being snarky and bitchy.

[QuiverDance]

OT:  The "May God richly bless you," and related comments on the Bates kids' posts reminded me of a the sweet, kindly old lady who works at the Walgreens in Downtown Nashville at the cosmetics counter.  She sings.  Constantly.  While she is stocking shelves, while she is ringing you up, while she is prancing around doing what-not.  Singing singing singing.  Singing when she greets you, "Hello, young ladies, I can ring you beautiful ladies up at the cosmetic counter without a wait."  Singing when she is gathering grocery carts.  Singing when she is straighteing the magazine rack.  OMG.... When I was at Walgreens on my lunch hour trying to concentrate on reading labels long enough buy some damned mascara or hair dye or what-have-you, she used to drive me INSANE with the singing.  (In hindsight, I realize how fucked up that is, and how stressed out I was... )  At any rate, she would end every transaction, with, "And you have a blessed day, young lady."  I always wanted to respond "Go fuck yourself, singing lady."  (Again, I realize how incredibly WRONG THAT IS.  I'm so glad I no longer work at that job! Or have the same husband I had at that time.  LOL)

[AnywhereButHere]

26 minutes ago, RosyDaisy said:

Depending on the tone of the conversation, "have a blessed day" is right up there with "bless your heart" as being snarky and bitchy.

Someone said that to me in the elevator at work yesterday. She works for a different company in the same building, so I don't know her at all. She said it very nicely, it's just that I'm used to responding to "have a nice day" with a "you too" which seemed to be such an underwhelming response to a sincere wish to have a blessed one, and (having avoided church like the plague recently) I didn't  really feel in a good position to bless her back... 

[grandmadugger]

1 hour ago, refugee said:

Wait, I'm confused. It sounded like Erin implied they were no longer enamored with Bill G or IBLP (at least, that's what I thought she meant by "the ministry").

And then Lawson had to jump in and defend IBLP and ATI. It sounded to me like he thought Erin was letting their side down, so someone had to go in there and prop it up again. After all, if she's not for them, she's against them, the way they think.

Her statement reads to me as very cautious, kind of like things you might hear at first from people easing their way out of our former church, trying to distance themselves quietly without getting their kids shunned (and losing their entire social circle), before they have the chance to build outside relationships.

That's how I took it too.  Erin implying that her and Chad were slowly moving on and Lawson jumping in with "Well, she couldn't have meant that so...."

[luv2laugh]

12 hours ago, Alye said:

In the last few days we have had them claim that Baby #2 was a surprise and that they as a family have no affiliation with ATI and Gothard. This with the fact that they don't seem to attend Gil's home church may suggest that they are moving away from IBLP and possibly moving in a more fundie-lite direction (note that I said may).

Alye I didn't know they said baby #2 was a surprise. Can someone show me where they said this? I can't find it. Also, I disagree with you. I think they are VERY much still abiding by the Quiverfull ideology of no birth control. Erin must have gotten pregnant at least 3-4 months post-partum. If they were using birth control, it would most likely not have happened. MOST people are disappointed in this pregnancy because it suggests they are still part of the Quiverfull movement.  Also, Erin still wears only below the knee skirts and dresses. I'm still holding out hope she (and Chad) will change. However at this point, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck.

[hollywood]

I wonder if fundie-dom has teens secretly breaking rules behind the scenes? Like how in a movie a girl is super religious but it turns out she smokes or is having sex secretly somewhere.

Is there some secret corner where kids can go makeout without a chaperone? I wonder

[Jana814]

Just now, hollywood said:

I wonder if fundie-dom has teens secretly breaking rules behind the scenes? Like how in a movie a girl is super religious but it turns out she smokes or is having sex secretly somewhere.

Is there some secret corner where kids can go makeout without a chaperone? I wonder

I don't think they would do that, because I think if the chaperone caught them they would tell their parents. 

[Kira]

45 minutes ago, grandmadugger said:

That's how I took it too.  Erin implying that her and Chad were slowly moving on and Lawson jumping in with "Well, she couldn't didn't have meant mean that so...."

 

Thought:

1.Erin and Chad aren't  the first fundies to say they were suprised by a pregnancy. Somehow fundies are always suprised that they're having another baby. Maybe she didn't think she would get pregnant so soon?

2. I am suprised by FJs reaction to Lawson's commment. Do you really think Lawson did that to defend ATI against his sister? How do we know she didn't ask him to post that? My guess is that Erin and Chad are still following IBLP. I  think Lawson was clearing up her comments. He seems like the family spokesman

3. I don't hate everything about fundies, but I find FJs love of the Bates strange. The comments sound like a one directon fan twitter!(I've clicked on their trending topics)  I dont think the Bates are even the nicest family FJ has ever met. I mean their father is being sued for covering up sexual abuse.  Many of us have fundies we like, but I've never seen what I see in the Bates threads.

4. @charliemae I love your comments about reality vs fan fiction. Why did people think Erin was using birth control(some of us were very sure they were/are using birth control)? Why do we think every fundie will stop at 2 kids? We've hated and loved fundies based on fiction. Sometimes we don't have their words or actions to back up our love or hate. It's all based on our feelings. I would love to have a discussion about this. I can think of a few times fan fiction got in the way of reality.

[socalrules]

Maybe I am wrong, but I get the idea that some people think that the only way Chad and Erin can prove that they are moving away from all things Gothard is to renounce God, have no more children, become super liberal,Erin wearing pants or short skirts and denouncing/basically walking away from their families. None of which is required to leave all things Gothard. They can still have faith in God, Erin can still only wear her skirts and they can still have a loving relationship with their families but move away from the Gothard lifestyle. They can still be anti-birth control, anti-abortion and conservative republicans and still be good people. 

Here at FJ, we are liberal, conservative, religious, atheist, gay, straight, etc. On some things we agree and others we differ. There is not one box that we can all fit in so why are we trying to fit Chad and Erin into what we think is the correct box? 

[grandmadugger]

So Erin says "I'm not associated with IBLP anymore."  but she couldn't possibly mean it because she still wears dresses.  Alyssa can't be making a slow move towards fundie lite because wearing pants doesn't mean anything.  So what does Erin have to do to prove she and Chad aren't associated with IBLP?  Does she need to abort this baby?  Divorce Chad?  Shun all of her family friends she's known her whole life?  This is the same black/white thinking that we hate about the fundies.

[sisterwives]

1 hour ago, grandmadugger said:

So Erin says "I'm not associated with IBLP anymore."  but she couldn't possibly mean it because she still wears dresses.  Alyssa can't be making a slow move towards fundie lite because wearing pants doesn't mean anything.  So what does Erin have to do to prove she and Chad aren't associated with IBLP?  Does she need to abort this baby?  Divorce Chad?  Shun all of her family friends she's known her whole life?  This is the same black/white thinking that we hate about the fundies.

Oops sorry for the accidental downvote but yes I agree that FJ tends to move the goal posts around for what they want fundies to do. Lots of people say they want the women to be more liberal with their clothing (Alyssa) or plainly state that they're not supporters of ATI (Erin). But that's not good enough. What is good enough? I don't necessarily think that her having a baby so soon is such a horrible thing and it could've very well been a surprise. Like lots of normal non fundie couples experience in the real world.

To be honest I think that people have this relationship with the Bates in particular because there's such a push back on leg humping that it swings back around to being unreasonable about these women, who have not (for the most part) been given a proper education and depend entirely on their husbands.

ETA: And I also don't think that Erin wearing below the knee skirts is a valid reason to say that she's still die hard Gothardite. She grew up dressing that way, she may very well feel comfortable. Not every woman should dress provocatively.

ETA pt 2: @luv2laugh here is the video where they refer to the baby as a surprise sheknows.com/entertainment/articles/1112963/bringing-up-bates-chad-erin-baby-no-2-news-exclusive

[actuallyjessica]

So Erin says "I'm not associated with IBLP anymore."  but she couldn't possibly mean it because she still wears dresses.  Alyssa can't be making a slow move towards fundie lite because wearing pants doesn't mean anything.  So what does Erin have to do to prove she and Chad aren't associated with IBLP?  Does she need to abort this baby?  Divorce Chad?  Shun all of her family friends she's known her whole life?  This is the same black/white thinking that we hate about the fundies.

Wow, I was just about to post something similar to this and then I thought I'd better check the unread replies to the topic. You seemed to have covered it!

[singsingsing]

There is a middle ground... you can believe that wearing pants or listening to Elvis or distancing themselves from Gothard or whatever else are signs that they're moving away from fundamentalism, but at the same time you can believe that they're not necessarily signs that they're moving away from fundamentalism. The info we're working with is way too thin at this point to make any sort of good judgement, in my opinion.

[luv2laugh]

No, I believe that Alyssa has definitely shown signs of becoming "fundie-lite". Those that feel Alyssa is not changing, most likely feel that way because Alyssa and her husband still involve themselves in every aspect of her husband's father, who is Gothardite. However, Alyssa has shown evidence based changes, not just "words" of her becoming "fundie-lite". However, Erin by all means, still LOOKS and CHOOSES to present herself as a Quiverfull fundie wife.
My personal reasoning:
 #1) Most likely not using birth control after a very difficult pregnancy. Baby conceived minutes after the hard pregnancy. I personally know MANY Quiverfull families that are 100% AGAINST IBLP and Gothard yet are neck deep in the Quiverfull movement, believing it is a duty for women to bear a Quiverfull of arrows. 
#2) Currently wears below knee skirts and dresses. Minutes after Alyssa's wedding she was seen sporting tank tops, jeans, and ABOVE knee skirts. She was DEFINITELY making a statement.
 #3) Both still use terminology that is fundie. It's not that it's just merely a habit for Erin & Chad, they use every social media opportunity possible to drop in "fundie-speak".  If I didn't know who was the writer, I'd assume I was on David & Priscilla's blog, meanwhile it is Erin & Chad doing the writing. 
#4) Choosing not to show that they are engaging in worldly activities. I would believe that they were genuinely straying from Quiverful fundamentalism IF they started dressing more "normal" like Alyssa, put up pictures of them engaging in typical worldly activities like Alyssa such as going out to football and baseball games etc. 
#5) Have NOT STOPPED participating in the Bates TV show which PROMOTES Gothardism (Alyssa is rarely focused, however Erin & Michaela are the stars of the show). For people that are so against Gothard & IBLP, why participate in a show where that lifestyle is showcased and displayed?
#6) The women as homekeepers is promoted at every opportunity on Erin & Chad's blog and instagram. For people that are so into social media and discussing every detail of life, why doesn't Erin talk about her work as a piano teacher? All you will see her choose to put out thereon instagram is about homemaking, cooking, kissing Chad when he comes home from work, cleaning, decorating, homemaking, homemaking, homemaking.
These are MY opinions only and I understand that most people whose favorite fundies are Erin & Chad won't agree. I understand that this is her lifestyle and what she is used to, however, for example, compare Erin's instagram to Alyssa's. You will see a MAJOR difference. Alyssa takes pictures of her and her husband doing many different things, focuses on many different things, many different interests, and whereas on Erin's instagram, I feel like I am being forced to drink the kool-aide of what the role of woman is. They are CHOOSING to put up pictures presenting themselves in a certain way and Erin is CHOOSING to clearly present herself, at this time, as the life of a Quiverfull fundie wife. There is NOTHING wrong with that, if that is Erin's choice, however, I do not yet see evidence of her transforming in the way of Alyssa or someone who is leaving the Quiverful faith. Maybe she will next week, 5 months, a year, who knows but right now again, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck. 

[Kira]

1. Where did Erin say "I'm not associated with IBLP anymore"? She was much more clear about Gothard

2. Not me,socalrules. Look at my comment history. I don't hate fundies because of their religious or political beliefs and I don't get mad when they have a million children. I get angry when they abuse, neglect, undereducated or starve their childern. Pretty fundies who wear pants can/have done those things. Wearing pants, having an education and having slightly less conservative hasn't stopped other fundies from being terrible. After everthing I've seen on FJ why should I be happy that Alyssa wears pants? Pants are proof of anything! I hope the Bates kids etc won't be those kind of fundies. I hope they aren't IBLP/ATI. 

 

[vienna]

1 hour ago, socalrules said:

Maybe I am wrong, but I get the idea that some people think that the only way Chad and Erin can prove that they are moving away from all things Gothard is to renounce God, have no more children, become super liberal,Erin wearing pants or short skirts and denouncing/basically walking away from their families. None of which is required to leave all things Gothard. They can still have faith in God, Erin can still only wear her skirts and they can still have a loving relationship with their families but move away from the Gothard lifestyle. They can still be anti-birth control, anti-abortion and conservative republicans and still be good people. 

Here at FJ, we are liberal, conservative, religious, atheist, gay, straight, etc. On some things we agree and others we differ. There is not one box that we can all fit in so why are we trying to fit Chad and Erin into what we think is the correct box? 

Spoiler

 

To you and Grandmaduggar and the many others: Thank you so much for speaking my mind in words I could have never found.

[Kira]

2 hours ago, socalrules said:

Maybe I am wrong, but I get the idea that some people think that the only way Chad and Erin Jill and Jessa can prove that they are moving away from all things Gothard is to renounce God, have no more children, become super liberal,Erin Jessa wearing pants or short skirts and denouncing/basically walking away from their families. None of which is required to leave all things Gothard. They can still have faith in God, Erin Jessa can still only wear her skirts and they can still have a loving relationship with their families but move away from the Gothard lifestyle. They can still be anti-birth control, anti-abortion and conservative republicans and still be good people. 

Here at FJ, we are liberal, conservative, religious, atheist, gay, straight, etc. On some things we agree and others we differ. There is not one box that we can all fit in so why are we trying to fit Chad and Erin into what we think is the correct box? 

 

 

didn't everyone want Jill and Jessa to become liberal etc...

[AliceInFundyland]

@luv2laugh What are Alyssa's interests? She has indeed developed a sense of style. Baby Allie is cute as a button. .....? 

I would argue that their absence from the show is explained by Florida and her father-in-law the congressman. Or, girl just wants privacy, she can still be conservative as hell.

I think singsingsing is right...all this "evidence" is way too thin to make a case for any of them making a strong move. 

@socalrules I think people just didn't want her to get pregnant right away after Carson. I suppose that yes, it would be a "sign" to some of us (if she waited another year or so) because it's like the fj dream. We want these kids to break out. But in the case of Chad and Erin it's particularly hard to watch because of her previous issues. I think that's what's stirring everyone up more.

[RosyDaisy]

Alyssa's father in law is a U.S. Congressman. There are expectations. Fundie fashion isn't one of them.

[infooverload]

Why is there this notion a walk away or deconversion is a quick process? People are indoctrinated over a slow gradual process, so the opposite seems perfectly reasonable. Does anyone have favorite deconversion stories?

[feministxtian]

I would be willing to take what Erin said at face value. Yes, she's pregnant again...so? BC fails...ask my kids. Out of three biological children, only 1 was on purpose. The other 2 are BC babies. 

Chad does not run his own business. He works FOR someone else. They're renting a house. Erin works. So what if Erin wears below the knee skirts? I do too...why? Because they're more comfortable for me. I'm NOT fundie at all. They attend a rather fundie church but not her father's Holiday Inn church. They're involved in their church, Erin plays for Sunday services. I really don't see them leading a IBLP sort of life (from what they share publicly). 

There's something in the bible about not painting the children with the sins of the father. Chad and Erin seem to be finding their way as a family, not necessarily completely towing the IBLP line. Erin probably remembers life before IBLP and ATI...and maybe they're trying to get back to that...baby steps, baby steps. 

[grandmadugger]

3 hours ago, Kira said:

1. Where did Erin say "I'm not associated with IBLP anymore"? She was much more clear about Gothard

2. Not me,socalrules. Look at my comment history. I don't hate fundies because of their religious or political beliefs and I don't get mad when they have a million children. I get angry when they abuse, neglect, undereducated or starve their childern. Pretty fundies who wear pants can/have done those things. Wearing pants, having an education and having slightly less conservative hasn't stopped other fundies from being terrible. After everthing I've seen on FJ why should I be happy that Alyssa wears pants? Pants are proof of anything! I hope the Bates kids etc won't be those kind of fundies. I hope they aren't IBLP/ATI. 

 

If you go back to page 1 there is a screenshot where Erin says in response to someone pointing out that her dad and FIL are on the IBLP board where she says "I can only speak for Chad and I.  We do not support or encourage."  Which some of us took to mean she and Chad aren't supporters of IBLP/ATI. 

[nelliebelle1197]

On 2/19/2016 at 11:26 AM, purple_summer said:

I did too. The whole "you don't look thankful" thing made me cringe. 

Regarding Cherin, I'm sure the birthday cake at the wedding was Gil/Kelly's idea. I mean it was the first Bates wedding and the marriage was between 2 major ATI families...it probably would have been weird (to them) to not include Gothard in some form. I'm sure the requirement for Crown students to attend the campus church and not their home church exposed Erin to new ideas, even if they are still fundie. Maybe learning that you could still lead a "godly" lifestyle without being eyeballs deep in IBLP crap was enough of an incentive for them to start pulling away. Cherin do still attend the Crown church right? 

Um, this was not the first Bateseseses wedding. And Gothard came and Chad and Erin were both photographed fawning over him. You people realize the Duggars claim no involvement with ATI as well, right?

[LawsonBatesEgo]

14 hours ago, tumblr said:

I have no problem with this, I have pretty severe anxiety and am afraid to do almost anything now as a result. I wish more adults in my life would have forced me to take risks and do new things when I was little so I would have less new things to be afraid of as an adult. 

I haven't seen the episode yet but it sounds like it was a controlled risk in a monitored environment where the worst thing that could happen was the kid getting freaked out, if that is the case than yes, I am 100% for forcing kids to try new things and take risks. 

My feelings are in the middle. 

I think it is important for parents to encourage kids to venture outside their comfort zone because it helps build resilience and teaches them to give new things a try while still having the benefit of a controlled environment. But it is also important for parents to realise when they are pushing the child too far or too soon, and when it might be best to try again another day. 

I think it was fine to try and encourage Judson to try, but Gil was such an asshole about it that it was actually a little hard to watch and I felt so sorry for the poor kid. I wouldn’t have had a problem with asking Judson to thank Warden for encouraging him if not for the stupid ‘you’re not smiling enough’ nonsense. I’ve thanked family and friends for helping or supporting me in situations that ended up not working out, but thankfully, I’m not from a ‘keep sweet’ culture where I’m expected to constantly have a fake smile slapped on my face.

[roddma]

No one is saying Erin and other Fundie women are dumb sheep or unhappy. However, I guess I think of Andrea Yates. Various testimonies from those who knew her thought she was the last to get into somethng like QF. She was a former nurse.

It's hard to say what they choose or don't choose. Rusty Yates kept insisting they have more kid in spite of doc's warnings. Jim Bob said once he left the number of kids up to Michelle. Did he really? Cults and legalism are so powerful they make you think your past life is wrong or if you are raised in it, other choices are wrong. They make a strong independent woman turn into a submissive baby factory. Im sure some are happy, but you have to think it's the only life they ever knew. They have no other choices to compare them to.. And i think most o FJ know you can say some positive tings about each family without agreeing with their beliefs.
I hope all goes well for Erin. Maybe she thought they couldn't have anymore or at least not this soon. Michelle was surprised at Jubilee perhaps thinking she as well could have no more.Jill and Derick were surprised. . But if you don't use any birth control what can you expect in any case?