Josh Duggar part 12 - Everyone has unclean hands...Go wash!

[2manyKidzzz]

1 hour ago, Kjaerringa said:

I just want to know if Josh will be sporting Razorback apparel when he is released. Because I really kinda want to send him a hat sporting a big red A.

 

 

The Scarlet Letter for Joshley.......I am hysterical. OMG. Too funny......

[DuggarWatch]

3 hours ago, 2manyKidzzz said:

The Scarlet Letter for Joshley.......I am hysterical. OMG. Too funny......

The sad truth is that Josh's homeschool education was so lame that he probably never read anything by Nathaniel Hawthorne and has no idea what The Scarlet Letter is.

[missegeno]

My gosh. Can you imagine the SODRT coverage of The Scarlet Letter, if it were taught? There is so much nuance and symbolism that they would just breeze past. Instead, they would probably take it as evidence that they should continue to make sure they are visually separate from the heathen sinners, reinforcing the need for modesty. I can just hear DQ saying "we can see the sin in other people from what they wear. So make sure your shoulders are covered or else you will wear the scarlet letter."

I'm really glad they don't read it. That book is too good to be butchered like that.

[TShirtsLongSkirts]

8 hours ago, Kittikatz said:

@2manyKidzzz LAMO - It was a memorable ending to a relationship. I will forever treasure the memory of the look of total gobsmack on his face when I told him that I was not any sort of livestock, had at best a passing interest in him,  zero plans to marry, no desire to have children, no intention of converting to anything, and that Georgia did not figure into my future plans. 

I had a much pared down version of this, too! I met a lovely American boy from Cali while I was on a conference (i'm from UK) and we immediately fell in love.  We spent a week in each others pockets and then I had to go back home.  Had a 2-3 month long relationship via email/skype.  I knew he was very religious, came from a large family and went to church a lot etc, and he knew that i wasn't into that at ALL, so we never really spoke about it (cultural differences, I guess?).  Then one day totally out of the blue I got an email from him saying I shouldn't run away from God's love and the love he'd been giving me was not his to give, I wasn't going to be saved, etc... It was kinda crazy to say we'd never really discussed religion before that point.  Needless to say I didn't speak to him again after that...

ETA: this was when I was 18 years old and naive, so, make of that what you will.

[HarleyQuinn]

5 hours ago, DuggarWatch said:

The sad truth is that Josh's homeschool education was so lame that he probably never read anything by Nathaniel Hawthorne and has no idea what The Scarlet Letter is.

Probably the only upside of SOTDRT is that they were not forced to read that slog of a book. 

But to stay on topic, I bet Josh is home now. Like someone else suggested, he was probably released the same day the Counting On promo was to turn everyone's attention elsewhere.

[AmazonGrace]

On 24.2.2016 at 7:21 PM, Bushes of Love said:

If they spin it so it's like 'look everyone the birthday boy and prodigal son is back' I may break my laptop from throwing something at it in disgust.

Oh darn it's such a chore trying to come up with anything other than, "Happy birthday, Jhild,  you are so good and diligent and you love the Lord. Love, everyone."

[SweetFellowshipper]

5 hours ago, missegeno said:

My gosh. Can you imagine the SODRT coverage of The Scarlet Letter, if it were taught? There is so much nuance and symbolism that they would just breeze past. Instead, they would probably take it as evidence that they should continue to make sure they are visually separate from the heathen sinners, reinforcing the need for modesty. I can just hear DQ saying "we can see the sin in other people from what they wear. So make sure your shoulders are covered or else you will wear the scarlet letter."

I'm really glad they don't read it. That book is too good to be butchered like that.

Hester and the preacher FRONT HUGGED and TEXTED WITHOUT ACCOUNTABILITY PARTNERS.

[2manyKidzzz]

8 hours ago, DuggarWatch said:

The sad truth is that Josh's homeschool education was so lame that he probably never read anything by Nathaniel Hawthorne and has no idea what The Scarlet Letter is.

Sad, but true. 

[xlurker]

16 hours ago, Four is Enough said:

I was married to an Episcopalian. I am a Roman Catholic. His unwillingness to raise any children we had as Catholic (we didn't thank God! have kids I mean) was one of the reasons I was able to secure an annulment after we divorced.

As closely aligned as those two sects are, it's pretty amazing that it could help derail a marriage..but second time around, I married the boy next door... yup. A Roman Catholic.

I am Episcopalian, married a RC in my church. Kids were baptized RC (after an ugly discussion with the priest. He saying we had to get remarried in his church as my children were bastards in the eyes of God.  All it really took was a hefty check to make things right )  Both kids were confirmed in my church, but have attended services in Episcopal, RC and even Lutheran (in college) churches...we never really had problems with it 

[2manyKidzzz]

47 minutes ago, xlurker said:

I am Episcopalian, married a RC in my church. Kids were baptized RC (after an ugly discussion with the priest. He saying we had to get remarried in his church as my children were bastards in the eyes of God.  All it really took was a hefty check to make things right )  Both kids were confirmed in my church, but have attended services in Episcopal, RC and even Lutheran (in college) churches...we never really had problems with it 

Bastards in the eyes of God?!?!?!? I have not heard that before. May I ask where this is, what part of the world of country? Wow. Religion never ceases to amaze. 

[Kjaerringa]

9 hours ago, DuggarWatch said:

The sad truth is that Josh's homeschool education was so lame that he probably never read anything by Nathaniel Hawthorne and has no idea what The Scarlet Letter is.

This is why I am so desperately fighting the sin in my heart to keep me from actually sending the hat to him.....because that really IS meanspirited.

[albanuadh_1]

Bastards in the eyes of God?!?!?!? I have not heard that before.

Yes! As one of the few Protestant kids  growing up in a Catholic village, I know all about that slur!

[Furbabies]

19 hours ago, Kittikatz said:

I briefly dated a Southern Baptist who was in my country doing his medical post doc. I was in my early 20s, finally enjoying freedom from my family's restrictions, and failed to appreciate how very different our outlooks on life, the universe and everything were. I didn't realize it at first, but looking back, he was trying to get me to "come to the lord" from the time of our first date. I had told him very early on that I was a Jew with severe agnostic tendencies, and so I viewed our religious conversations from the perspective of cultural discussions, and didn't take them any more seriously than I did conversations about the differences between Canada and America. As a couple of months passed, he actually told me that I had to convert because I was responsible stirring his carnal desires, which somehow necessitated our immediate marriage and my quitting school to go back to the US with him... and it wasn't fair to him to be "unequally yolked" to an unsaved Jew who was going to burn in hell. Apparently, it didn't matter that I was studying to be an archaeologist, happily wallowing in prehistorical quagmires with radio carbon dates back to 30,000 years ago, and most days put more faith in Blessed Ceiling Cat than anything in the Torah or New Testament - conversion via a dunking in holy water was mandatory, and marriage and moving to Georgia was going to happen because he decided it was so. Let's just say the conversation that flowed from those statements was quite ugly. It did teach me to pay a lot closer attention to religion and more importantly, the importance people place on it before getting too involved.

You are going to spend eternity in the Dark Place with Basement Cat for certain. 

[HarryPotterFan]

25 minutes ago, Furbabies said:

You are going to spend eternity in the Dark Place with Basement Cat for certain. 

Kitty!!!

[refugee]

On 2/22/2016 at 0:14 PM, Whoosh said:

I personally think that the Josh situation is a combination of nature and nurture and that it is pretty silly to think he was simply born a bad seed that would be bad regardless and it is equally silly to think that everyone raised in that type of environment will act out in the way Josh has.  To me it seems obvious that there are some issues that are unique to Josh and it also seems obvious that he was raised in a dangerous and toxic environment that can well be expected to bring out the worst in many individuals subjected to that type of situation.

That said, at this point it seems like a pretty easy out for these families and for Josh himself to place all the blame with Gothard.  It is pretty easy to say that there is nothing wrong with the lifestyle or the belief system and in fact Gothard preached the ideal, biblical way to exist.  It is pretty easy to say that all the beliefs are perfect and flawless and that the problem is that Gothard wasn't practicing what he preached.  I, personally, think that is a load of horse shit and I think anyone who buys into that story line is deluding themselves.

This is what I'm hearing, IRL, from ATI apologists. Yes, they are still defending their decision to follow gothard and immerse their families in ATI (at least, the parents are).

I've read posts by some ex-ATI parents who admit it was a destructive choice, but the ATI parents we know IRL are three out of three (couples, not individuals) ATI apologists. Gothard was "a good man" and "anyone can stumble" but they insist the system is still the godly way to go. And to say anything against Gothard is to engage in gossip...

I've actually had one mom pull me aside to remonstrate with me for my gossiping, slandering ways. She expresses distress about it to me, on a regular basis ("Why would you want to be so hurtful?"), and I'm pretty sure she's praying that I'll see the light. 

I should not be reading these accounts on the internet, and I *certainly* should not be linking to them on my facebook. In her opinion, of course.

[withaj]

3 hours ago, 2manyKidzzz said:

Bastards in the eyes of God?!?!?!? I have not heard that before. May I ask where this is, what part of the world of country? Wow. Religion never ceases to amaze. 

Clearly this is a post count waiting to happen... @happy atheist?

[Kittikatz]

1 hour ago, Furbabies said:

You are going to spend eternity in the Dark Place with Basement Cat for certain. 

I'm cool with Basement Cat... but I'm a Ginger, so no soul to worry about 

 

 

[xlurker]

6 hours ago, 2manyKidzzz said:

Bastards in the eyes of God?!?!?!? I have not heard that before. May I ask where this is, what part of the world of country? Wow. Religion never ceases to amaze. 

The southern part of the North East--think south of New England. About 25 years ago.  The idea was we were not married because we were married in an Episcopal church, what it came down to was the bishop wanted a new car! LOL  At least by being baptized RC, if they so choose, they can get married in a RC church without much problem.  My church takes anyone that has been baptized, no matter what

[Bad Wolf]

My son married an RC. He was baptized Episcopalian. They were married in an RC church and are not religious at all, so haven't had any child issues. I had to find his baptism certificate so they could get married.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

7 hours ago, xlurker said:

I am Episcopalian, married a RC in my church. Kids were baptized RC (after an ugly discussion with the priest. He saying we had to get remarried in his church as my children were bastards in the eyes of God.  All it really took was a hefty check to make things right )  Both kids were confirmed in my church, but have attended services in Episcopal, RC and even Lutheran (in college) churches...we never really had problems with it 

Just as an FYI what he said is in direct opposition to the stance of the RCC.

Quote

It is to be noted that all children born of marriage are presumed in canon law to be legitimate. This holds, not only for valid marriages, but also for such as are commonly reputed to be valid, though really invalid, provided such marriages were entered into, by at least one of the parties, in good faith. A marriage of this latter kind is called a putative marriage. If both parties to such marriage were in bad faith, the children would be held legitimate in the external forum, as this bad faith would not be manifest. In case both contractors were in good faith, the children would be legitimate, even if the marriage were afterwards declared to be null. Presumption of legitimacy is always in favour of the children born of a person in wedlock, unless evident proof be given that physical reasons make the paternity of the husband impossible, such as absence, impotence, etc.; and even a sworn confession of wrongdoing on the part of either reputed parent will not otherwise affect the legitimacy of the children.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09131e.htm

Regarding the new car, not sure if that was a joke but an insured vehicle for personal use is provided to all Bishops, by the archdiocese. 

There are a LOT of issues with the RCC, no question, but they are pretty business savvy.  the SOP would be trying to draw a family back due to their interest in baptizing their kids just from a financial standpoint.  Any one time payment will pale in comparison to the years of CCD fees, envelopes, fundraisers, etc.  

im sure rogue clergy speak outside the box in all faiths, but just posting this in case someone reading comes across someone like this they should report it to the diocese.  They don't appreciate parish priests driving away customers.

 

 

[xlurker]

@HerNameIsBuffy--the car was a joke for the most part.  Although the church would send out letters every couple of years requesting money for just that!   And I knew what he said about the kids was against the beliefs of the church.  In a weird way he was trying to "win me over" and get me to join his team-- "being the religions are so close" and were at one time "one and the same" and would be again.  What it did was piss me off.  The check, which wouldn't have even bought a decent used car 20 years ago, was a decent size. 

Why he ever thought calling my sweet little baby a bastard in God's eyes, and saying that I was not truly married because God doesn't live in my church would win me over to his team is beyond me!

I'm apologize if I misled anyone regarding the car, it was unintentional.  BTW, that priest has long since passed on as he was quite old at the time.  

[EmCatlyn]

14 minutes ago, xlurker said:

@HerNameIsBuffy--the car was a joke for the most part.  Although the church would send out letters every couple of years requesting money for just that!   And I knew what he said about the kids was against the beliefs of the church.  In a weird way he was trying to "win me over" and get me to join his team-- "being the religions are so close" and were at one time "one and the same" and would be again.  What it did was piss me off.  The check, which wouldn't have even bought a decent used car 20 years ago, was a decent size. 

Why he ever thought calling my sweet little baby a bastard in God's eyes, and saying that I was not truly married because God doesn't live in my church would win me over to his team is beyond me!

I'm apologize if I misled anyone regarding the car, it was unintentional.  BTW, that priest has long since passed on as he was quite old at the time.  

For what it's worth, my husband was baptized Catholic in 1951 at the request of a lapsed Catholic mother who had married an Episcopalian in an Episcopal church.  The Catholic priest made no fuss about it, and no money changed hands.  So it was not just that the priest you dealt with was old. 

[Timetostoplurking]

Just my 2cents with the RC marriage issue.  

I took a theology class in college called Relatonships and Marriage.  (At a private RC accredited university in the Midwest....just so we are clear).   It sounds boring and dull but the priest/professor was awesome.  Funny and interesting!   One thing that I learned was that a Marriage was between a man, a woman  and God.  The priest only serves as a witness.   So as far as the church was concerned it didn't matter who officiated as long as it was legal.  I remember being surprised at that.  He also said there was a lot of variation in the church and some archdiocese followed other traditions.  But that was Tradition, not church law.        Anyway, that's how I remembered it.

[sndral]

I'm not RC. My ex wasn't either until he hooked up with his next ex wife. Imagine my surprise when I got a letter from some RC church informing me that my former marriage had been 'annuled.' Who knew the RC church would gratuitously annul someone's marriage w/out contacting them beforehand. I guess the future ex wife wanted to get married in the RC church. Since she was divorced w/ kids as well, I suppose her prior marriage must have been 'annuled' too. I didn't care as my ex & I were in fact legally divorced at the time, but I did wonder if that made our son (conceived and born to two lawfully married non RCs) a bastard in the eyes of the RC church.

[punkiepie]

12 hours ago, xlurker said:

I am Episcopalian, married a RC in my church. Kids were baptized RC (after an ugly discussion with the priest. He saying we had to get remarried in his church as my children were bastards in the eyes of God.  All it really took was a hefty check to make things right )  Both kids were confirmed in my church, but have attended services in Episcopal, RC and even Lutheran (in college) churches...we never really had problems with it 

My very fundie IFB Mom found herself in a pickle when she met and fell and love with my dad- a life-long alter boy and Catholic school graduate from a very Catholic family.  They got married, but only after each of them came to a concensus on several issues:

1. They agreed all their children would be raised IFB Baptist.  2. A Catholic priest would marry them so that his parents wouldn't think their children were bastards, but not in a Catholic church.  3. My dad promised to join the IFB church after they were married. 

In the end, my brother and I were raised in the IFB church, they were married by a Catholic priest, my dad did leave the Catholic Church, and although he was never able to really embrace the IFBs, he supported my mom's belief system as it applied to raising us.  My dad is a genius and is very well respected in the scientific community- so while my mom got the church stuff, he made sure my education was just as highly valued. Consequently, I went to an Ivy League college and was able to break away from the toxic IFB beliefs. My mom left shortly thereafter, although she still refuses to admit the earth wasn't created in a literal six, 24hr day period. 

On a funny note, my Catholic grandma baptized me into the Catholic Church in our bathtub when I was 6 weeks old so I wouldn't go to hell if I died before being baptized into the Baptist church. (Baptists baptize after a confession of faith, not at a certain age)  She told me this as a young child and many times again over the years- but I wasn't ever to tell my mom.  I finally told my mom when I was 26, we were out of the IFB, and my grandma was dead; and still, I thought my mom was going to have a stroke.