Josh Duggar part 12 - Everyone has unclean hands...Go wash!

[quiverofdoubt]

3 minutes ago, DuggarWatch said:

http://www.acog.org/Patients/FAQs/Your-First-Gynecologic-Visit-Especially-for-Teens

13-15 makes more sense to me. Average age of first sexual activity is really young, and it's pretty common for teens to not be totally honest about their sex lives with their parents.  It might be fine for a woman to wait to see the gyno till 21 or so if they aren't sexually active, but i'm guessing the medical community wants to catch the kids who need protection and exams and b/c help, without going through mom and dad.  So just say 14 is normal to see the gyno, no matter what, and they don't have to tell mom and dad what they've been up to.  But still get the care they need.  On the flip side girls may get the exam sooner than really needed but the tests themselves are cheap and don't have side effects.

[RosyDaisy]

I never had a problem with gyn exams. It's just one of those things that has to be done. But that's just me. Every woman has her emotions about exams, and I definitely respect that.

[Ais]

I'm UK/Ireland based so no hospital gowns for smear tests (paps). Mines are done more regularly than normal due to a family history and constant gynae issues, so I have no embarrassment at all anymore. I strip from the waist down, assume the position and don't care who is looking up there.....and yet I still take great care to hide my knickers from view under the rest of my discarded clothing! Where is the logic?! 

[Screamapillar]

My gyno said you only need to have a pap once every three years if you haven't had any new sexual partners. I'm sure there's an off color joke that could be made about Josh with this, but I've got nothing.

[Bad Wolf]

If the Duggar girls could read this topic...

[Whoosh]

As far as I know, in the USA many women used to see an Ob-gyn and that was it unless there was some other type of problem.  Kids had a pediatrician and when that magical time arrived, female children would often see their mom's ob-gyn.  Now, people are encouraged to have a general practitioner and those GPs will do standard or routine gynecological exams sometimes (though usually not something like a mammogram) and often prescribe birth control.  

I think it is pretty standard to still recommend that females see an adult doctor rather than a pediatrician sometime around 13 to 15.  That may still be an Ob-gyn, but it is often a GP.  For someone like myself who opted to not have children, I haven never needed to see an Ob-gyn (I did see my mom's when I was in high school, but then I went on to student health and then a GP).

Pap smears are now recommended later and less frequently, but that isn't the only reason a 16 year old (or younger) should be seeing someone other than a pediatrician.

Just my take on it.  I could well be way off base.

[DuggarWatch]

If you are in the UK, you might be interested in this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3452625/Cervical-cancer-survivor-24-young-smear-test-reveals-signs-woman-look-for.html

[OnceUponATime]

1 hour ago, Toothfairy said:

But being a virgin doesn't mean you don't go for gynecologic exams, right? Just asking.

when I was younger you didn't need to go until one of the following happened: a) you became sexually active or b)you turned 21(that age might be wrong). And once you hit that magic number they sent yearly cards to remind you of your duty to get a pap smear. I do think they said if you're still sexually inactive you may wait until you're 25, they just sent to reminded as a kick up the butt to people who didn't go.

But people mention their dr's feeling up their boobies. At what age is that meant to start happening? no one has ever mentioned that to me before.

[Imagine20]

My pap exams have always included a manual breast exam. I've been to doctors in 4 different states over the years. I always thought it was normal. 

[bjr70]

On 2/18/2016 at 3:05 PM, FlamingFundie said:

On 2/18/2016 at 5:33 AM, medimus said:

The paper gowns and sheets just sound like so much faffing around. And of course I see the patiënt clothed first. I have to know why they're here! I've done vaginal exams with partners in the room, other doctors, and even kids running around. It's all fine, unless the patiënt doesn't feel comfortable, in which case I'll wait till she can come back with only the people she wants in the room. I know the US has a shortage of family doctors, but do you really all go see a gynaecologist for a birth control prescription?

Lots and lots of my patiënts are middle eastern refugees at the moment and none of them seem to mind either. Though I did have a patiënt (male) who wouldn't shake my hand, but had no problem with me examinging him. I couldn't figure out the right way to ask why he wouldn't shake my hand.

I find this sort of stuff fascinating, the result of growing up internationally I suppose.

Yes, we see Gynos for birth control. In fact, I never even had a family doc growing up. For gyno visits, I had paper gown and paper sheet across my legs for all mine, and I (like a previous poster) always left my socks on lol. A few years ago, I was told they were switching to every other year, so this three-years-business is something I hadn't heard. Then again, I haven't gone to the gyno since having my IUD installed almost 4 years ago (yay for ten years' worth of BC!) and don't plan to return until I either need a new one or (much more unlikely) we decide to have another baby.

I always call my socks the "socks of dignity." I love my IUD. Doc told me unless I had issues I could come back just for a quick check in and a mammogram script.

[Whoosh]

14 minutes ago, Imagine20 said:

My pap exams have always included a manual breast exam. I've been to doctors in 4 different states over the years. I always thought it was normal. 

This was true for me and happened annually from HS until I hit 40 (well, I can't remember if it was literally ever year in my 30s or if that tapered off over time actually as we moved from the every year pap smear to the every 3 years pap smear).  Once I hit 40, the recommended frequency of Pap smears had gone to every 3 years AND it was time for the ever thrilling annual boob squash in the mammogram machine.  I am now 46.  I just had my second pelvic exam in my 40s (I had one at 39, one at 42, one at 45), but I am getting geared up for my SEVENTH mammogram in my 40s (one in Feb every single year).  Colonoscopies usually start at 50 in the USA, but certain risk factors mean some of us get to have one at 40.  I had that fun-filled experience (really not that bad, but the prep is no fun) and had great results.  I have not heard boo from any doctor about the "rear entry" since that time, so I don't know how the scheduling is supposed to go for colonoscopies when there are no issues outside family history stuff.

ETA - just fyi, it was actually my father's doctor that recommended my sister and I both have a colonoscopy at 40.  We both got a call from Mom and then had to tell our own Drs.  Mine just asked what had gone on with my Dad and then moved forward with the recommendation, I believe my sister had to get an actual note from my dad's doc.

[QuiverDance]

So, sorry to interrupt this discussion about having our vaginas examined, but how freaking TERRIFIED must Josh be about having to leave Jesus Jail and incur the wrath of his family in the next couple of weeks?  I wonder what the RU rate of recitivism is.  I wonder if he will be able to hack it back on the compound.  Honestly, if he were not so despicable, I'd feel sorry for him.

[CorruptionInc.]

47 minutes ago, QuiverDance said:

So, sorry to interrupt this discussion about having our vaginas examined, but how freaking TERRIFIED must Josh be about having to leave Jesus Jail and incur the wrath of his family in the next couple of weeks?  I wonder what the RU rate of recitivism is.  I wonder if he will be able to hack it back on the compound.  Honestly, if he were not so despicable, I'd feel sorry for him.

That's probably why he's stayed so long in there - anything is better than coming home to oodles of shame.

[CreationMuseumSeasonPass]

46 minutes ago, QuiverDance said:

So, sorry to interrupt this discussion about having our vaginas examined, but how freaking TERRIFIED must Josh be about having to leave Jesus Jail and incur the wrath of his family in the next couple of weeks?  I wonder what the RU rate of recitivism is.  I wonder if he will be able to hack it back on the compound.  Honestly, if he were not so despicable, I'd feel sorry for him.

100 percent agree. Anna has been in a state of grieving for six months, but she's been in a surreal world with her in-laws to lean on. Her real test is about to start with her cheating husband returning home. It's JUST NOW that they're finding out if they can rebuild their marriage without any basis of trust. The hard work is just about to start....right....now.

[DuggarWatch]

1 minute ago, CorruptionInc. said:

That's probably why he's stayed so long in there - anything is better than coming home to oodles of shame.

I wonder if the family will let him see the "Counting On" episodes where his siblings dished on him big time.  Would love to see the expression on his face when he watches.

[meowmeow19]

On 2/17/2016 at 9:09 PM, Coy Koi said:

 

[nokidsmom]

 

4 minutes ago, CreationMuseumSeasonPass said:

100 percent agree. Anna has been in a state of grieving for six months, but she's been in a surreal world with her in-laws to lean on. Her real test is about to start with her cheating husband returning home. It's JUST NOW that they're finding out if they can rebuild their marriage without any basis of trust. The hard work is just about to start....right....now.

This is what I have been thinking as well.  With the exception of a few visits, Anna has been spending her time separated from him.  No doubt the visits were very emotionally charged but when Josh gets home and things settle down, getting into an everyday routine, that's when the doubts, the lack of trust, the questions about what he's really doing, etc. is going to hit Anna.

She clearly wants to stay with him but until he comes home, she has no idea what that is going to mean for her.  She has stated in so many words that she wants to go back to how things were before.  Perhaps she knows things will be different and she's just stating an honest wish that she knows is not going to come true.    But somehow I don't think she has fully comprehended what working on her marriage will involve.  

Actually regarding Josh being in RU for so long, I don't think that it's because he is not coming back but it would be very interesting if he didn't. Putting him away for six months got him out of the media spotlight, kept him from making himself look even more of a douche and it had the "appearance" of rehabbing him while JB scrambled to save the brand.     I can see him actually dreading the moment of his release.   Being put to work in RU (assuming this happened) might have been tough at first but now he's probably used to it.  He might have found he preferred to be away from his family, he might have no illusions how they are going to react to him once he's home.

 

[meowmeow19]

You don't have to get a pap smear to get birth control. Your doctor may say so but that isn't normally the law. Personally I kind of see it like optometrist who refuse to give you a contact lense prescription unless you buy the contacts from them exclusively. I live In Missouri which has some pretty strict laws that protect businesses rather than consumers and we even can get birth control without a pap smear. Bare minimum you need to be consulted about BC, have you blood pressure checked and be asked if you are smoking or have family history of strokes/blood clots. 

I'm glad I don't have to do a pap smear every three years. I'm tired of living in this constant fear that vaginas are bad and need to be tested or corrected often. 

[Bad Wolf]

I wonder how the Ms are going to react. I'm sure they'll be primed to be excited that daddy's home. After a while, they may resent being told what to do by Josh. They may miss being in the TTH chaos. It will be a big change for them. Six months is a long time in a child's life. Josh will have to be patient, and get back slowly into his family. (If that's what he wants.)

[ksgranola1]

Anna can never go back. That has to be frightening to her. There's the normal, instinctive questions she must want to ask, and then there's the unwritten Gothard rules about headship & wifely duties. I wonder what he thinks about how Anna feels. "Will she trust me? Should I ask her, or is that some how a smack in the face to Jesus?"

[violynn]

7 minutes ago, ksgranola1 said:

Anna can never go back. That has to be frightening to her. There's the normal, instinctive questions she must want to ask, and then there's the unwritten Gothard rules about headship & wifely duties. I wonder what he thinks about how Anna feels. "Will she trust me? Should I ask her, or is that some how a smack in the face to Jesus?"

It is profoundly sad that these two broken ppl cannot sit down and start over with honesty and openness.  No doubt JB and M will be stuck up Anna and Josh's tail pipes, and probably helpfully have a 'helper' there with them all the time.  They will never learn to talk or trust each other, if either had any interest in trying that out.

[Hera]

1 hour ago, CreationMuseumSeasonPass said:

100 percent agree. Anna has been in a state of grieving for six months, but she's been in a surreal world with her in-laws to lean on. Her real test is about to start with her cheating husband returning home. It's JUST NOW that they're finding out if they can rebuild their marriage without any basis of trust. The hard work is just about to start....right....now.

Good thing they have such a solid and strong foundation to build on.  Oh wait, right.

 

[medimus]

So, am I right in thinking that the reason you all go to the gyneacologist and they do pap smears left right and centre just so you can get some birth control is that you don't have GP's or family doctors, so they want to grab hold of you while they have you and do anything preventetive that they can?

Whereas here pretty much everyone has a GP and goes to them first for pretty much everything, including teenagers needing birth control for the first time, domestic violence problems, childhood illnesses (vaccines are done through a free service and at school, but can be done at the GP's if the parents wish), STI testing, all preventitive screening tests etc

[NeverQuivered]

On February 16, 2016 at 0:10 PM, Georgiana said:

You can also lose your virginity to many kinds of vigorous activity, including horseback riding.  Which is why back in Medieval and Renaissance Europe (and possibly even later) some girls were deterred from vigorous riding....and some were encouraged to take it up!  

That's not losing one's virginity. The hymen might break but it is not the same as penetration by any means. 

[Trynn]

I actually had a doctor refuse to do a Pap smear even when I was having problems. He said that if I was really a virgin (I was) there was no need. And I was like.... Then why am I still having problems? Find out what's wrong with me dammit!