Erika Shupe *grim rictus* Large Families on Purpose Part 4

[Anonymousguest]

43 minutes ago, Paperplate said:

How licensing and driver's ed work in the US is ... almost unbelievable to me.

You are barely a teenager (14 is so young), answer three questions about driving and are allowed to get behind the wheel of a car and drive around?!? That just sounds insanely dangerous to me. (It seems to be working though? Maybe because no one drives a stick shift?)

In these parts, you have to be 18 to get your license. There are mandatory theoretical courses (around 15 classes of 1.5 hours each), and you have to study for a test with lots of questions, many of them quite difficult.

Practical driving instruction only happens with a driving teacher in a specially fitted car (two sets of pedals). Many people have never driven before and need to do a few hours to learn how to steer the car, shift gears (pretty much everyone drives stick here) etc. Then they also have to do at least a dozen specialised practical hours of night driving, highway, city etc. It's quite expensive.

They have to pass the theoretical test before they are allowed to take the practical one. I think around a quarter of people fail the written test, and even more screw up on the practical one.

Oh, and I forgot: You also have to get an eye exam.

But if you managed to get your license you get to drive by yourself right from the start. There's also a probation period of five years where you can get your license taken away more quickly for speeding etc.

(Nowadays the rules have changed, and I think you can get it at 17 and then drive with your parents or other adults, but the classes and tests are the same.)

I don't know if there is a state that is as young as 14, but many are 15 for the learners permit. They do have to pass a test to get it, and they cannot operate a car alone. You must have the permit to practice driving. In our state you have to drive with someone for at least 100 hours to get your permit. Or you can go to driving school and then you only have to drive 50 hrs. Then you must pass a practical driving test and have a provisional licence for 6 months. During that time you cant drive with the radio on, drive any non family member under 21, after certain hrs. I forget if that's it.

So it's not like you can just walk in at 14 and drive away. And plenty of people still drive manual transmission  and in most states the permitting restrictions have gotten more stringent, not less, over time and the influx of automatic transmissions. When I got my licence we only had to do a shirt driving test and prove we had taken drivers ed. Then there were no restrictions at all.

[Peas n carrots]

When I was growing up in Nebraska (mid 90's) you could get a school permit at age 14. If you resided more than 1 mile from the school you were eligible. There were tons of restrictions - daylight hours only, you could only have siblings as passengers, and drive he shortest route from home to school. It was a practicality where I lived - it was rural, and high school kids who lived outside of town needed a way to get to school events before/after school bus hours. Public transit is non-existent. At any rate, most of the farm kids had had experience driving farm vehicles from a younger age and had the basics down.

For us town kids, you could get your permit with a test at age 15 and with another written test and driving test receive the full license at 16. Driver's Ed wasn't required but you got a discount on insurance if you did.

I know the laws have changed since I was a teen but I believe like many states a certain amount of hours are required and until age 17 or 18 there are limitations on what times of day one can drive.

[princessmahina]

2 hours ago, Paperplate said:

How licensing and driver's ed work in the US is ... almost unbelievable to me.

You are barely a teenager (14 is so young), answer three questions about driving and are allowed to get behind the wheel of a car and drive around?!? That just sounds insanely dangerous to me. (It seems to be working though? Maybe because no one drives a stick shift?)

In these parts, you have to be 18 to get your license. There are mandatory theoretical courses (around 15 classes of 1.5 hours each), and you have to study for a test with lots of questions, many of them quite difficult.

Practical driving instruction only happens with a driving teacher in a specially fitted car (two sets of pedals). Many people have never driven before and need to do a few hours to learn how to steer the car, shift gears (pretty much everyone drives stick here) etc. Then they also have to do at least a dozen specialised practical hours of night driving, highway, city etc. It's quite expensive.

They have to pass the theoretical test before they are allowed to take the practical one. I think around a quarter of people fail the written test, and even more screw up on the practical one.

Oh, and I forgot: You also have to get an eye exam.

But if you managed to get your license you get to drive by yourself right from the start. There's also a probation period of five years where you can get your license taken away more quickly for speeding etc.

(Nowadays the rules have changed, and I think you can get it at 17 and then drive with your parents or other adults, but the classes and tests are the same.)

You're making it sound like it's a bit simpler than it is. You generally have to answer more than 3 questions (I had 20+, and the test was pretty difficult), and an eye test to get a permit. Many states require driver's education classes if you're under the age of 18 (the reason Karen and Melanie can't drive)- which is frequently expensive if your school doesn't offer it (mine didn't). 

Oh, and some of us do drive stick. I happened to learn on one, and still drive it. 

I do think the requirements should be tightened up though. 

[Runningfromreality]

When I got my permit in Virginia about 10 years ago, you had to take a written test to get your permit. You then had to take classroom driver's ed. in addition to doing a certain number of hours with a licensed driver over 21 (including some amount of night hours). After that was all done, you took "behind the wheel" drivers ed for a week or so and the last day was in effect your driving test. Until you were 17, you could only drive one unrelated person (and as many related people as you wanted). After you had your license for a year, and until 18, you could drive up to three unrelated people. Also, no driving after midnight until after 18, unless you were on the way back from work or a school event. I think the requirements were pretty stringent and I do know some people who waited until 18 to get their licenses for relaxed requirements. 

[enigmata]

11 minutes ago, princessmahina said:

You're making it sound like it's a bit simpler than it is. You generally have to answer more than 3 questions (I had 20+, and the test was pretty difficult), and an eye test to get a permit. Many states require driver's education classes if you're under the age of 18 (the reason Karen and Melanie can't drive)- which is frequently expensive if your school doesn't offer it (mine didn't). 

Oh, and some of us do drive stick. I happened to learn on one, and still drive it. 

I do think the requirements should be tightened up though. 

What I'm getting confused with is do you have to take an actual practical test?  I understand the theory question test but there doesn't seem to be much mention of having to have practical skills examined.  It may just be that different terms are being used.

In the UK we have to do the theory test (I believe it is computer based - I passed my test before it was introduced) and then a practical test with a licensed examiner.  It's very easy to fail the practical test - a work colleague failed last week because he got in the wrong lane at a roundabout.

We can get our provisional license at 17 but can only drive with an adult who has a certain number of years experience (think it could be 5 but not certain) until we pass both driving tests.  I think that once you pass your tests you can drive without restriction - there was some talk about having to have 'P' plates on the car at first (like the 'L' plates you must display when learning).

I find it fascinating how different it is around the world (and even how different it is state to state).  In the US, what happens if you move states?  Do you have to get a new license?  If so, is this just a paper exercise or is there more involved?

[princessmahina]

Just now, enigmata said:

What I'm getting confused with is do you have to take an actual practical test?  I understand the theory question test but there doesn't seem to be much mention of having to have practical skills examined.  It may just be that different terms are being used.

In the UK we have to do the theory test (I believe it is computer based - I passed my test before it was introduced) and then a practical test with a licensed examiner.  It's very easy to fail the practical test - a work colleague failed last week because he got in the wrong lane at a roundabout.

We can get our provisional license at 17 but can only drive with an adult who has a certain number of years experience (think it could be 5 but not certain) until we pass both driving tests.  I think that once you pass your tests you can drive without restriction - there was some talk about having to have 'P' plates on the car at first (like the 'L' plates you must display when learning).

I find it fascinating how different it is around the world (and even how different it is state to state).  In the US, what happens if you move states?  Do you have to get a new license?  If so, is this just a paper exercise or is there more involved?

Yes. I can't think of a place where you don't have to take a practical driving test. 

It depends. I got my driver's license in one state (Hawaii) and moved to another state in the deep south a couple years later. I didn't have to take a written test or a practical test. They asked if everything was still correct (regarding eyes and special licensures and stuff), took a new picture, and handed me a new license. 

I think some states might require a more involved process, but I haven't had to deal with it. When my mother moved from Virginia to Hawaii, she had to take a written (theory) test to make sure she understood the laws. She had the same experience in Ohio. I think because our practical tests are typically so similar, there might not be a point in making people take those over again. Once you've taken the driving test, it's pretty much assumed you know the basics of driving.  The written test checks that you know the laws and can drive safely.

Although I will say that on the episode of 19 Kids and Counting where Jinger got her driving license, I was very envious that Jinger's test was all in the country. I took mine in the city and think it was probably more difficult to navigate lunchtime traffic.  

[December]

7 minutes ago, enigmata said:

I find it fascinating how different it is around the world (and even how different it is state to state).  In the US, what happens if you move states?  Do you have to get a new license?  If so, is this just a paper exercise or is there more involved?

I've moved to different states multiple times. For one, I still had a learner's permit and the new state checked my vision, checked my residency, then issued me a learner's permit for their state and shredded my old one (some states make you retake the learner's permit written test). I got my driver's license there, then moved again. The next state verified my driver's license, checked my vision, and issued me a new one for that state. They didn't take away my old license, but I shredded it anyways myself.

[DaffyDill]

Here in Australia, you have a test (multiple choice) to get your learner's permit, and then if you pass, you can drive under the supervision of a fully licenced driver like a parent, grandparent, anyone that's fully licenced.

Learners have to have 120 hours of experience driving which is recorded in a logbook (times, dates etc), but there are some shortcuts; like if you use a driving instructor, the first 10 hours with them counts as 30 in your logbook.

In that 120 hours, 20 must be night time driving. The learner has to display yellow "L" plates while driving.

When the learner has completed that, they sit a driving test (as in a driving around with an assessor) and if they pass, the learner gets their "P" plates (white plates with a red P). They have these for 12 months, can drive unsupervised, although with speed restrictions), then there's another small test and they go onto green "P" plates for another three (I think) years, sit another small test, and then are a fully licenced driver. If you're over 25 and getting your licence, you are able to bypass some of the steps above.

Too many teens were in accidents, whether because of speed, or by not knowing the road rules etc., so laws were changed to make sure kids have at least a reasonable amount of experience before they drive alone. It sounds like a lot of hoops to jump through, but it isn't really. It is a fairly big time investment though - that 120 hours can be a drag when you're the parent, although I like that the kids have to get a certain level of experience.

[grandmadugger]

2 hours ago, enigmata said:

What I'm getting confused with is do you have to take an actual practical test?  I understand the theory question test but there doesn't seem to be much mention of having to have practical skills examined.  It may just be that different terms are being used.

In the UK we have to do the theory test (I believe it is computer based - I passed my test before it was introduced) and then a practical test with a licensed examiner.  It's very easy to fail the practical test - a work colleague failed last week because he got in the wrong lane at a roundabout.

We can get our provisional license at 17 but can only drive with an adult who has a certain number of years experience (think it could be 5 but not certain) until we pass both driving tests.  I think that once you pass your tests you can drive without restriction - there was some talk about having to have 'P' plates on the car at first (like the 'L' plates you must display when learning).

I find it fascinating how different it is around the world (and even how different it is state to state).  In the US, what happens if you move states?  Do you have to get a new license?  If so, is this just a paper exercise or is there more involved?

I didn't have to take a practical exam with anyone at the DMV.  I had taken Driver's Ed and my teacher signed off that I had completed the required skills.  I did have to take the written test and it's more than 3 questions.  If I wanted to drive anything other than a normal car/truck/van I would have to drive with someone from either the DMV or highway patrol depending on what I wanted.

[livinginthelight]

55 minutes ago, grandmadugger said:

I didn't have to take a practical exam with anyone at the DMV.  I had taken Driver's Ed and my teacher signed off that I had completed the required skills.  I did have to take the written test and it's more than 3 questions.  If I wanted to drive anything other than a normal car/truck/van I would have to drive with someone from either the DMV or highway patrol depending on what I wanted.

You never had to take a driving test? Where the person giving the test gets in the car with you and you drive them around? I've never heard of this. Usually it's the last step before (provisional) licensure. What state do you live in?

[elliha]

It is very interesting to see how many different ways driving tests etc. can be done in different countries. The Swedish process is a bit complex so I will not describe it in detail but we get "lämplighetsintyg", a certificate that says that we do not have had traffic violations or drug convictions and perhaps a couple other crimes from the police and when you apply you also supply an eye test. If you are at least 16 and everything is fine you get a permit to practice driving with somone who has had their license for 4 (or 5?) years who has taken an evening class or with a driving instructor. Before you didn't have to take this class but these are the rules now. When you have turned 18 and start feeling ready to pass the test you need to take a class about alcohol and drugs while driving, pass an ice test (depending on where you live you can have ice or snow from September to May at worst but wherever you life there will be snow and ice for a period each winter and you are expected to handle it) and then a theoretical test and a practical test. The practical test is usually very hard and it is not that uncommon to fail it for a small mistake. 

[Paperplate]

Thanks to everyone for describing their experience. I didn't know about the ice test in Sweden. Interesting.

I'm glad to hear that most of you had tests with more than three questions.  In my last post I went with the worst case scenario, but I know that many states have stricter rules.

I was under the impression that most people in the US drive automatic, and the internet says so too: apparently it's only between 3 and 10% who drive a manual. I thought that would be a factor. Driving manual isn't hard, but harder than automatic.

There are actually a handful of US states where you can get a learner's permit at 14.

My point remains: Very young kids can get in a car with little to no training and drive around. Yes, you have an adult in the car with you, but how is that going to help when you go through rush hour traffic, not knowing what you're doing? I realise most people aren't going to be doing that, but there's nothing stopping them from it either. I'm assuming if this were a real problem, the rules would have been changed though.

[helenprev]

7 hours ago, princessmahina said:

Although I will say that on the episode of 19 Kids and Counting where Jinger got her driving license, I was very envious that Jinger's test was all in the country. I took mine in the city and think it was probably more difficult to navigate lunchtime traffic.  

UK, 1990 - I was learning to drive and our local driving test centre closed down because the floor fell through in the old wooden building it was housed in! They didn't replace it because, I kid you not, there were no roundabouts anywhere in that small town at the time. The choice was to go to Buxton 20 miles away (a small rural town) or Derby 13 miles away (a city). My driving instructor decided for me that I would take my test in Buxton, knowing I had more chance of passing there!

I was really glad at the time, and I passed my test first time, but now I sort of wish I'd gone to the city because all these years later I absolutely love driving anywhere except cities, which freak me out and I end up in the wrong lane, going through a no entry sign onto a pedestrianised area (on one memorable occasion) and generally extremely stressed!

This was back in the days before the hazard awareness test and the theory test, both of which you now have to pass before you can take the practical test. However, the driving examiner did ask random theory type questions about road signs and stopping distances during the test, so we still had to know it all just in case we got asked!

[withaj]

Just to add -- it is quite possible to fail the practical driving test in the US. As a teenager, I had multiple friends who initially failed and had to retake it a few times. In my state, I think all of the judged points added up to 40 and you couldn't pass with less than 35. There were a number of things that were "automatic fails" though, like parallel parking incorrectly or failing to come to a full stop at a stop sign or use a turn signal. 

And yes, we do have to pass an eye test. If you can't read that bottom line of letters on the chart or binoculars at the DMV, you're out of luck. My prescription at that time was only -0.25 with astigmatism and I didn't wear glasses regularly... When I forgot mine at th DMV and couldn't read that little line, they wouldn't issue my license until I came back with my glasses. And my driver's license notes that I must wear corrective lenses while driving.

[19 cats and counting]

11 hours ago, enigmata said:

What I'm getting confused with is do you have to take an actual practical test?  I understand the theory question test but there doesn't seem to be much mention of having to have practical skills examined.  It may just be that different terms are being used.

In the UK we have to do the theory test (I believe it is computer based - I passed my test before it was introduced) and then a practical test with a licensed examiner.  It's very easy to fail the practical test - a work colleague failed last week because he got in the wrong lane at a roundabout.

We can get our provisional license at 17 but can only drive with an adult who has a certain number of years experience (think it could be 5 but not certain) until we pass both driving tests.  I think that once you pass your tests you can drive without restriction - there was some talk about having to have 'P' plates on the car at first (like the 'L' plates you must display when learning).

I find it fascinating how different it is around the world (and even how different it is state to state).  In the US, what happens if you move states?  Do you have to get a new license?  If so, is this just a paper exercise or is there more involved?

In the US, if you move between states, technically you're supposed to get a new license.  I've lived in 8 states since 2010 and haven't changed my license, but most of those were temporary moves.

In order to transfer a license between states (well NY and NJ), you just have to prove to the DMV who you are (birth certificate, passport, proof of residency, SS card, etc) provided your out of state license did not expire (I changed mine over 4 days before my NY one was set to expire).  No idea what would happen if your license expires.  NJ gave me a hard time because I put a different height than what was listed on my NY one (5'6 vs 5'5) because I grew since I was a teenager.

We've seen states crack down on younger drivers, now I'd like to see this happen at the other end of the spectrum with them cracking down on elderly drivers.   Of course one group can't vote and the other votes in large numbers so it would never happen.

[Antimony]

I had a nightmare about Erika and I staying in a hotel together. (I'm in a hotel for the week for work travel.) I think threw a straw wrapper or something on the floor and she lost her damn mind and I told her, "The mess is always gonna be there, fucking breathe a little" and she got really upset with me and then tried to yell at me for going to work with my hair damp and un-made up. I told her she wasn't my mom. (I also work in a jeans/t-shirt/hoodie profession.)

It was honestly really scary. 

[nellautumngirl]

Haha that dream It does sound scary, but I can imagine her doing that.

Did we know that Bob is a hobby photographer? I didn't and apparently he doesn't post his work anymore. He used to on this site: redbubble.com/people/bobshupe/portfolio What surprised me was that he has pictures of women in his favorites, totally innocent by our standards, but I wonder what Erika thinks about it?

redbubble.com/people/bilgolaj/works/6978000-dawn-sun-kissed

redbubble.com/people/lynnemorris/works/6991149-light-and-shadows

[Shiny]

44 minutes ago, nellautumngirl said:

Haha that dream It does sound scary, but I can imagine her doing that.

Did we know that Bob is a hobby photographer? I didn't and apparently he doesn't post his work anymore. He used to on this site: redbubble.com/people/bobshupe/portfolio What surprised me was that he has pictures of women in his favorites, totally innocent by our standards, but I wonder what Erika thinks about it?

redbubble.com/people/bilgolaj/works/6978000-dawn-sun-kissed

redbubble.com/people/lynnemorris/works/6991149-light-and-shadows

I didn't know that. He's really quite good. It's a shame he doesn't post more recent works (if there are any). 

[nellautumngirl]

1 hour ago, Shiny said:

I didn't know that. He's really quite good. It's a shame he doesn't post more recent works (if there are any). 

I like it as well. I don't expect much from fundie photography in general, but I think his pictures are relatively pretty and creative. Maybe Melanie got her artistic streak from her dad.

[mango_fandango]

Wow. Karen looks beautiful in those photos. 

The other photos are good too. I think Bob is still the primary photographer for the family.

[elliha]

I did know that Bob was interested in photography but this is the first time I have seen that page. Very nice!

[Runningfromreality]

Browsing through the pictures, I for some reason find it disconcerting (or maybe just weird) that you can purchase a pencil skirt with a picture of Karen on it. Bob's a pretty decent photographer!

[JillyO]

1 minute ago, Runningfromreality said:

Browsing through the pictures, I for some reason find it disconcerting (or maybe just weird) that you can purchase a pencil skirt with a picture of Karen on it. Bob's a pretty decent photographer!

... WHAT?!

[Runningfromreality]

Here, in all its glory. I wonder if the site just populates random products for each photo, but this gem wasn't available for all of them. Just a weird thing that I would never think to put a photo on...

Update: you can purchase one with the twins on it as well, and there's even a model to show you how it would look. I just have no words at the moment, this is quite easily the strangest thing I've seen today. 

[iweartanktops]

5 minutes ago, Runningfromreality said:

Here, in all its glory. I wonder if the site just populates random products for each photo, but this gem wasn't available for all of them. Just a weird thing that I would never think to put a photo on...

This is weird.