Jill Duggar Dillard Part 9: They slosh through the rain.

[twinmama]

On 1/1/2016 at 6:17 AM, Drala said:

He certainly is a cute little guy.  I'm also a twin momma, but my boys are old enough to have children of their own.

Awww, mine are 4 now. It is an insane trip, but I love it and can't imagine anything else. My brother and his wife are having their first (a singleton) and every update I think it sounds like half a pregnancy. You mean you only have 2 legs and 2 arms kicking you? lol 

On 1/1/2016 at 9:45 AM, 2manyKidzzz said:

Guess I was a bad mother. When my kids were crying I would offer them a cookie or a cartoon show. Used a playpen for safety when necessary. Removed sharp edges from our small house. Watched them carefully as they were wild boys. (for the youngest, had to removed furniture and take pictures off the wall.....glass.....the youngest broke down a baby gate and tumbled down the stairs when less than one year old). Laughing all the way they were. I was exhausted. They never stopped moving. Ha ha

Ohhh I baby proofed the crap out of our apartment when my twins were crazy young toddlers, but they still figured out how to scale the baby gate to climb onto the BOOKSHELF. I mean, you can't pen them up every time you have to pee for 30 seconds! One time I was making their dinner in the kitchen and they were in the completely babyproofed living room (meaning outlets covered, shelving earthquake strapped to the wall in New England, gates blocking all exits) and my computer was playing music. It stopped suddenly and I went out there to see why... found they had scaled the baby gate blocking my desk and were sitting on my desk banging on the keyboard. I am 90% sure this is before they were even walking! 

I don't even know what my point was other than you can baby proof and make things as safe as you think you can, and some kids are climbers and explorers and fearless and they will find a way to make monkeybusiness.

[Mothership]

9 minutes ago, MatthewDuggar said:

You obviously missed the season when J'chelle somehow managed to take 20 minutes out of her day to spend time one-on-one with each of the kids.  The voice-overs and talking heads were of her describing their individual qualities....

Of course, this was all set up thanks to TLC.

 

One of my favorite scenes to snark about.  J'chelle gets to Jilly Muffin and Jessa Blessa and then she has a hard time naming any special attribute beyond general kind/organized/loves spelling crap.

[sillysally314]

On 12/29/2015 at 0:12 AM, OodOnTheLoo said:

I heard them say it's overseas.

you know, if i've been to nova scotia (in canada, above maine) i could technically say i've "been overseas," y'know, since my plane went over the atlantic for a smidge...

[twinmama]

On 1/1/2016 at 0:11 PM, PennySycamore said:

I know that FJites have been all over themselves about how cute the various Bates grandchildren are, but @twinmama, your baby tops them all!

Awww, thank you! That one's hair grew straight up for almost a year. It was the funniest thing and as babies he was my crazy one (they totally switched personalities during the baby to toddler transition) so his hair fit his personality. I love them and like any parent think they're the cutest damn thing ever.

[HarleyQuinn]

I agree Cathy has to be careful as her son will 99% of the time side with his wife over his mother, but she didn't have to consent to filming her cancer battle. She could've said no and Jill couldn't hold that against her. They weren't married. The fact that her husband sat out of all the filming speaks volumes. He's probably the only one not fame hungry. I know Cathyhas Cathy has a lot of fans here and I used to be one, but I'm very disillusioned with her at the moment.

[twinmama]

3 hours ago, Mothership said:

One of my favorite scenes to snark about.  J'chelle gets to Jilly Muffin and Jessa Blessa and then she has a hard time naming any special attribute beyond general kind/organized/loves spelling crap.

While I don't think M is a good mother or an active mother at all, I never spend one on one time with my twins. Seriously in 4 years, I think I have taken them out one on one maybe 3 to 5 times! Just this past week one had a doc appointment and my husband is off work for the week, so I took him alone and the other stayed with dad. The entire time was "Is ___ coming? I miss my _____! I need my _____ back!" they HATE being apart. Maybe it's only a twin thing, but I am one of 3 kids, no twins, and remember almost no one on one time with a parent. Just a reality of more than one child, to me.

Edited because derp, my comment applies more to the comment my quote quoted about one on one time. I certainly think parents of more than one child can know things about each child, unlike Michelle!

[snarkysuki1724]

7 hours ago, Elvis Presby said:

We have a pool too.  It's nice to be able to play out there with the kids during the summer and have all that fun without having to leave the house, pack a pool bag, or have to worry whether or not we are swimming in pee.  

I agree, especially about the pee.     My daughter went to a day camp one year, and every time she swam in the public pool there, she wound up with an ear infection, so along with not swimming in pee, less germs! 

[Cleopatra7]

3 hours ago, nastyhobbitses said:

I think she's got a lot of factors that make her an enabler: she may be still very taken with the "whee I'm on TV" stuff, she really wants to be connected to her children/grandchildren and will go along with Derick's zealotry to maintain her relationship with him and Israel (plus she's always been quite religious, it seems), and she's been through a great amount of personal upheaval/tragedy and religion is a source of support, structure, and explanation.

I think people within a certain religious culture will put up with or turn a blind eye to extremist beliefs in their own midst that they wouldn't for people outside of it. Cathy -- not to mention all the fundie-lite and mainstream conservative leghumpers -- probably thinks that while the Duggars are more stricter Baptists than she is, they mean well and are trying to be the best Christians they can be. Therefore, if Derrick wants to blow off a decent, mainstream job with Wal-Mart to hand out tracts in Guatemala, well, he's serving Baptist Jesus, so it's all good. I don't think Cathy would be so understanding about FLDS men who claim they need 3+ wives and government assistance to please Mormon Jesus, for example, because Mormonism is completely foreign to her. I have seen similar attitudes of "they're odd, but pious and mean well" among conservative Catholics towards Society of St. Pius X supporters and Conservative Modern Orthodox Jews towards Hasidic Jews, so it's not just a Baptist thing.

[Fascinated]

I've never really seen any indication from Cathy that she's not onside with the Duggar belief system.  I maintain that if she strenuously objected she might have initially dissuaded her son from marrying Jill after 'knowing' her for ten minutes, via Skype, no less.  I actually hope she is ok with it because, if she's not, she must be extremely unhappy. 

[MatthewDuggar]

Cathy's totally on-board with all the shenanigans.  I don't trust anyone that gets screen time with these people.  Everyone is trying to find someone that might actually knock some mainstream sense into them.  I remember when everyone was just gushing over Derrick like he was going to be some sort of mainstream salvation for Jill.  Ha!  Hardly...  It seems like anyone that walks into these people's lives are easily and quickly swept up into the phoniness and then beg for more Kool-Aid.  Even Josiah's Marge still seemed to be somewhat involved with them after they broke it off...

 

[SilverBeach]

20 hours ago, Mrsaztx said:

Ya, it's infuriating, even several years later, for everyone but them it seems. Most of the neighbor's are stunned only one has died so far since they routinely have to do things like pick them up from the actual roads because they're driving their power wheels on them (a 45mph road), I saw a child in diapers climb out of the second story window onto the roof, I've seen them jumping from the roof into the pool, seen the 6 and unders walking along the same busy road with no shoulder, somebody must be watching over them since none of the others have died yet. And talking to the parents does nothing

Child Protective Services?

[Mrsaztx]

Just now, SilverBeach said:

Child Protective Services?

They did a half-assed investigation when the kid died, but the male parent (hardly a father, considering) is wealthy and very involved in the community in a "I want to get my photo in the paper at least once a month" jimbob-esque kind of way. They see "nice, white, wealthy, religious family with a SAHM who coos about her blessings" and figure it's all good, they've got kids to take away from meth heads, they can't bother with the kids in the nice house, even if they have a solid chance of dying

[nst]

On 12/31/2015 at 11:50 AM, Valerie3kids said:

I am really disturbed by the entire Derrick/Jill situation. They seem to be tourists taking a lovely vacation and still grifting for funds from others. Derrick did not seem the least bit interested in anything going on in the orphanage and seemed close to losing his temper with so many children wanting something from him all at one time. The biggest thing going on in their lives is the fact that it rains!! Jill is passing herself off as someone who has medical knowledge and who can be of help and that is beyond scary to me. Why don't they just do what they really want and come home? They are not making much of an effort to assimilate themselves into the community especially Jill. She seems so lost and so out of place. They both seem a bit detached from Izzy. Derrick carrying him like the "Latinos" do? WTH? Why was that even said? Are they all that out of touch with society that they do not think twice before both speaking and posting pictures. Izzy looks beyond unhappy in his strait jacket and WHY would you take a picture of that? Of the two new mothers, I actually thought Jill would be more caring and I think I got that completely wrong. Jessa seems to show a lot of love in her eyes for Spurge and Jill seems to act as if Izzy is some type of toy. She can't get anything done such as Spanish lessons due to Izzy and I find that to be garbage as we all know many people who have continued their education while having young children.

Sorry, need to get off my soapbox.

the ink is still warm on Jessa - wait until he is 5 months old - Ben's fake voice is already grating - with these two women - i am no longer covering my eyes. Jill it seems in the show can't deal with Iddy - whatever her problem is

 The pictures are disgusting and sick.  Who needs to see stuff like that.  Maybe Jill is suffering from her childhood - and needs help 

but she still needs to be giving a talking to = with a hand 

[missegeno]

3 hours ago, nastyhobbitses said: I think she's got a lot of factors that make her an enabler: she may be still very taken with the "whee I'm on TV" stuff, she really wants to be connected to her children/grandchildren and will go along with Derick's zealotry to maintain her relationship with him and Israel (plus she's always been quite religious, it seems), and she's been through a great amount of personal upheaval/tragedy and religion is a source of support, structure, and explanation.

I think people within a certain religious culture will put up with or turn a blind eye to extremist beliefs in their own midst that they wouldn't for people outside of it. Cathy -- not to mention all the fundie-lite and mainstream conservative leghumpers -- probably thinks that while the Duggars are more stricter Baptists than she is, they mean well and are trying to be the best Christians they can be. Therefore, if Derrick wants to blow off a decent, mainstream job with Wal-Mart to hand out tracts in Guatemala, well, he's serving Baptist Jesus, so it's all good. I don't think Cathy would be so understanding about FLDS men who claim they need 3+ wives and government assistance to please Mormon Jesus, for example, because Mormonism is completely foreign to her.

I think you're right about Kathy. To her, the Duggars may just seem extra devout.

But let's remember that FLDS is not mormonism. LDS is mormonism. They are not one and the same.

[Mercer]

55 minutes ago, Mrsaztx said:

They did a half-assed investigation when the kid died, but the male parent (hardly a father, considering) is wealthy and very involved in the community in a "I want to get my photo in the paper at least once a month" jimbob-esque kind of way. They see "nice, white, wealthy, religious family with a SAHM who coos about her blessings" and figure it's all good, they've got kids to take away from meth heads, they can't bother with the kids in the nice house, even if they have a solid chance of dying

I realize you are in a very difficult situation and CPS may simply be unwilling to intervene no matter what you do, but my suggestion would be that every time you witness one of the children in life-threatening danger, you call the CPS hotline and make a detailed report. (If anyone else witnesses it with you, each adult who observed the incident should hotline it separately.) If CPS is getting frequent calls about the family, it'll be harder for them to ignore, because at some point they're going to realize what a black eye it would give them if another child died and community members were aware that they refused to intervene. 

[Cleopatra7]

16 minutes ago, missegeno said:

I think you're right about Kathy. To her, the Duggars may just seem extra devout.

But let's remember that FLDS is not mormonism. LDS is mormonism. They are not one and the same.

While the mainstream LDS church has a monopoly on the Mormon name, the wider Latter Day Saints movement (i.e., Christian restorationist groups that trace their roots back to Joseph Smith and the book of Mormon) encompasses a lot of groups, including the FLDS:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sects_in_the_Latter_Day_Saint_movement

http://ldsmovement.pbworks.com/w/page/15644454/FrontPage

I understand that the mainstream Mormon church doesn't want to be associated with sects that marry underage girls and cheat the government (among other illicit and illegal things), but saying that the FLDS isn't Mormon is the "no true scotsman" fallacy. There's more to Mormonism and the Latter Day Saints movement than the organization run out of Salt Lake City that counts Mitt Romney and Orson Scott Card as members.

[lascuba]

1 hour ago, Fascinated said:

I've never really seen any indication from Cathy that she's not onside with the Duggar belief system.  I maintain that if she strenuously objected she might have initially dissuaded her son from marrying Jill after 'knowing' her for ten minutes, via Skype, no less.  I actually hope she is ok with it because, if she's not, she must be extremely unhappy. 

I wonder about this a lot. My family is a big believer in minding one's business when it comes to adult relationships unless we're talking about abuse. While I'm not shy about saying what I think, especially early on, I've had loved ones make some obviously bad choices and with certain people and depending on my read of the situation, I reach a point where I think, "She/he's clearly is not going to listen to reason so I'm going to shut up, mind my business,  and hope my instincts are wrong." (And for that discretion I get a soon-to-be-divorced cousin who recently had the damn nerve to complain that I and others didn't try hard enough to talk her out the ex....but that's a story for another day.) Could be Cathy realized that there was no chance of Derrick seeing reason and decided to err on the side of guaranteeing a relationship with her son and future grandchildren, and while I don't have children, I totally get that decision. If my loved one was so far gone that they were considering marrying a girl he barely knew--one from a family of reality tv freaks--I'd know they're too far gone to bother talking sense into them. People can be stupid, stubborn fools when they fancy themselves in love. 

[Coconut Flan]

Kathy may be like the MIL one of my daughters has.  That SIL has some characteriestics in common with Derick in being socially ill at ease especially with datable females and not being the greatest looking guy in the room.  MIL was just so thrilled her son had found a decent young lady who liked him that she has never found anything wrong with my daughter and I believe that if she did she'd never express it.  I have to say the young man is a fantastic husband and SIL.  I hope Derick is as fortunate.

[Fascinated]

2 minutes ago, lascuba said:

I wonder about this a lot. My family is a big believer in minding one's business when it comes to adult relationships unless we're talking about abuse. While I'm not shy about saying what I think, especially early on, I've had loved ones make some obviously bad choices and with certain people and depending on my read of the situation, I reach a point where I think, "She/he's clearly is not going to listen to reason so I'm going to shut up, mind my business,  and hope my instincts are wrong." (And for that discretion I get a soon-to-be-divorced cousin who recently had the damn nerve to complain that I and others didn't try hard enough to talk her out the ex....but that's a story for another day.) Could be Cathy realized that there was no chance of Derrick seeing reason and decided to err on the side of guaranteeing a relationship with her son and future grandchildren, and while I don't have children, I totally get that decision. If my loved one was so far gone that they were considering marrying a girl he barely knew--one from a family of reality tv freaks--I'd know they're too far gone to bother talking sense into them. People can be stupid, stubborn fools when they fancy themselves in love. 

I agree, it's a tricky situation, and i personally would not attempt to intervene in my kids', or anyone's, relationships. I'm just unclear as to why so many here think that Derick's mom is a beacon of light. Yes, she could be playing it safe for the sake of their relationship, but, if she has the influence over him that some of us think she has, I would expect her to have somehow prevented the marriage in the first place. I don't think she has such sway, and I see no evidence that she is in any way unhappy with his lot in life. But, I obviously have absolutely no idea at all how Cathy feels. 

[2manyKidzzz]

Cathy was literally fighting for her life in 2014...during the engagement, wedding planning and wedding. So, I think her priorities might just be keeping the peace and having access to her son and grandson. 

And, like I  said, grown children do what they do. I like Cathy a lot. She wore pants, worked and had only two children. I do not see her as being fundy. 

I think she is grateful to be alive. 

[EmmieJ]

3 hours ago, nst said:

the ink is still warm on Jessa - wait until he is 5 months old - Ben's fake voice is already grating - with these two women - i am no longer covering my eyes. Jill it seems in the show can't deal with Iddy - whatever her problem is

 The pictures are disgusting and sick.  Who needs to see stuff like that.  Maybe Jill is suffering from her childhood - and needs help 

but she still needs to be giving a talking to = with a hand 

Are you saying Jill should be hit?  Please tell me that is not what you mean (but I'm not sure how else to take the phrase that combines Jill getting a talking to "with a hand."  

[EmmieJ]

Re Cathy:  I can't really tell how fundie she is, whether she's fundie light, or she thinks the Duggars are exemplary people and wishes she were more like them.

I have a friend who is grandmother to three young girls.  They are her son's children.  Son and mother of the girls are divorced, sounds like not amicably because ex wife has a restraining order against the son.  I know only the grandmother, so I just have her side of the story.  She loves her grandchildren very much, and she watches them as often as possible and as often as the ex daugher-in-law allows.  She bites her tongue on many occasions because she doesn't want to jeopardize her relationship with the grand-daughters.  The grandchildren tell her that "mommy" hits them sometimes, and yells at them.  They say they love being at her house because she feeds them.  I think the mom is a combination of overwhelmed, immature, and sometimes just mean and nasty, but not anywhere close to a level that would get CPS involved.  My friend keeps the peace in order to stay as involved with those little girls as possible.

Maybe Cathy is in somewhat a similar position.  Maybe she sees things that she doesn't 100% approve of, but feels if she spoke against Jill or Derick's beliefs or behaviors, they could choose to shut her out of their and Israel's life, and she really doesn't want that to happen.  She could think, "at least if I'm around, I can keep an eye on things."  

Cathy cannot control Derick or Jill.  In their belief system, only JimBob as head of the family, could probably do so (and probably does).  If I were in her shoes, I wouldn't agree to be filmed (or only very little), but I'd probably bite my tongue (so often it would bleed) in the hope that I could be a frequent presence in my grandchildren's lives, maybe offer some unconditional love and one day, a helping hand if any of them wanted out of that life.

[notfundy]

@EmmieJ   Aw, what a sad/touching story.    Your friend sounds like she's doing all the right things.  A loving adult involved in a young child's life can do WONDERS; she's probably wise to bite her tongue and "keep the peace" so that she can continue her relationship with her grandchilden.

As a new grandma (this year! - oops, last year/2015) I can sooooo sympathize with her.  Not directly, thank goodness - my daughter and son-in-law aren't doing anything where I'd need to be concerned... just saying that as a grandma, I really feel for your friend.  

[EmmieJ]

Thank you notfundy.  And congrats on being a new grandma

[Mercer]

Unfortunately I just don't see Cathy as a likely voice of sanity and reason for the Dillards. To her credit, she did raise Derick to be more able to function in the world than the Duggars are - he went to college, and at least briefly managed to hold a job, which is better than most of the Duggarlings have managed. She also raised the son, though, who thought vapid and hyper-conservative Jill would make an excellent life partner, was sufficiently convincing with his potential patriarch cred that Jim Bob accepted him as a suitor for her, and then decided he would rather grift and hand out tracts than work to support the child he brought into the world. Cathy didn't exactly bat a thousand in the raising a functional adult department either.

It's possible that the apple fell really far from the tree and Derick is that way in spite of his upbringing rather than because of it. Given most of the choices Derick has made in his adult life, though, I'm not sure Cathy was a completely benign influence raising him.